Donald Trump

skywanderer

Trumps not coming to Ireland, Richard Boyd Barrett and his fellow crusties must be fierce disappointed. Trump and Boris would be a great combination, I'd love to see a photo of Trump, Boris and Putin get together. Three great leaders and about as un-PC as you can get.

Ozymandius2011

I like Trump because he is giving new hope to people disenfranchised by the unholy alliance between Big Business and politicians. He wants to block TTIP. I am strongly opposed to TIIP here in Ireland because I think it will further erode whats left of manufacturing industry in Europe through imports from the US which has lower labour protections than the EU. I also identify with the opposition to open borders. The blue collar workers are revolting across Europe and the EU. TTIP also contains an Investor Court which will allow businesses to sue governments for loss of profits. The lack of transparency in the negotiations makes me suspicious. The most recent AP/WP poll had him on 70% of the White male bluecollar workers. Unfortunately for Trump, White blue collar workers are only 33% of the electorate compared to 66% under Reagan.

was listening to Michael moore last night on today FMs matt cooper and he seems convinced Clinton is goosed and is betting on THE Donald (though he's ashamed it will be so). He went further to explain why in terms of winning key states, saying the right things to the right people in the right states like Pennsylvania etc and to be honest, from a casual listeners standpoint, it held water to be fair, even cooper was interested.

Billy86

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

I like Trump because he is giving new hope to people disenfranchised by the unholy alliance between Big Business and politicians.

The problem with this premise is that he isn't a 'big business supporting politician' - he is 'big business' itself.

You also mentioned to identify with his opposition to open borders, but I don't know of a single prominent (in terms of votes gained) politician who is for open borders?

Also, Clinton is opposed to TTIP also - so at least on that front this election would appear to be somewhat win/win for you (consider yourself lucky, it's not something many people can say about much of anything in this election cycle!).

Skylinehead

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

I like Trump because he is giving new hope to people disenfranchised by the unholy alliance between Big Business and politicians.

Trump is Big Business. Trump is now a politician. Not only are they an "unholy alliance", they'll be the same thing!

If you think he's going to change much there, you'll be severely disappointed.

Ozymandius2011

Billy86 wrote: »

The problem with this premise is that he isn't a 'big business supporting politician' - he is 'big business' itself.

You also mentioned to identify with his opposition to open borders, but I don't know of a single prominent (in terms of votes gained) politician who is for open borders?

Also, Clinton is opposed to TTIP also - so at least on that front this election would appear to be somewhat win/win for you (consider yourself lucky, it's not something many people can say about much of anything in this election cycle!).

I subscribe to the theory that if you are part of the system and know how it works, you know better whats wrong with it and how to change it. Naive perhaps but thats my opinion. Plus he has been writing books on the trade issue since the 1980s. In the 80s' he was complaining about Japan ripping off America on trade (see Oprah videos on youtube), and also in his book "The America we deserve" where he also advocated a more isolationist foreign policy like now. He has also called for a peace deal in Israel-Palestine - a subject Hillary won't dare touch for fear of losing votes from Jewish-Americans and Evangelical Christians (Obama got 22% of them last time).

Its hard for me to believe she is opposed to TTIP given her history of supporting free trade deals like NAFTA. She has a history of flip-flops on positions like gay marriage, building barriers on the border with Mexico, and deportations of illegal immigrants. For example see this video of her in 2006. The donations from vested interests to the Clinton Foundation ($10 million from Saudi Arabia and $5 million from Brunei), plus the millions in paid speeches to banks like Goldman Sachs which she is refusing to publish causes me to regard her as a puppet of vested interests rather than the working class.

wes

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Unfortunately for Trump, White blue collar workers are only 33% of the electorate compared to 66% under Reagan.

Above emphasis mine. If Trump was so pro-worker, than you wouldn't need you "white" qualifier at all.

Ozymandius2011

wes wrote: »

Above emphasis mine. If Trump was so pro-worker, than you wouldn't need you "white" qualifier at all.

Since Goldwater (who opposed the Civil Rights Act) and the Southern Strategy ethnic minorities have always voted for the Dems. Thats not necessarily a reflection of Trump. The polls have been very inconsistent about his levels of support among minorities. The SurveyUSA poll a few days ago had his Black support on 17%, whereas the ABC poll has it on 4%. The NBC Surveymonkey poll a few weeks ago had him on 29%, whereas Yougov had him on 18%. In the age of the internet and a decline in landline in favour of mobile phones, its becoming harder to poll accurately as the recent UK election shows.

If you look at the deindustrialisation of Detroit, where the auto industry was ruined by NAFTA, it calls into question whether African Americans have been well served by voting Democrat. I saw recently that African American incomes have declined under Obama, whereas they rose under Reagan. Reagan tackled Black poverty with enterprise-zones with some success.

wes

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Since Goldwater (who opposed the Civil Rights Act) and the Southern Strategy ethnic minorities have always voted for the Dems. Thats not necessarily a reflection of Trump.

He sure as hell hasn't helped himself in that regard.

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

If you look at the deindustrialisation of Detroit, where the auto industry was ruined by NAFTA, it calls into question whether African Americans have been well served by voting Democrat. I saw recently that African American incomes have declined under Obama, whereas they rose under Reagan. Reagan tackled Black poverty with enterprise-zones with some success.

Nafta was supported by both parties in the Senate, if I remember right. Clinton signed it into law, but negotiations were started by Bush Senior. They weren't exactly served well by either party then.

Also, Donald Trump is happy to invest over seas:
Trump The Hypocrite: Investing Overseas Fine For Him

If the man practiced what he preached, he may have had a point, but as it stands he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Also, manufacturing could come back to Western countries, albeit heavily automated and requiring minimal Human involvement. All, the people who got jobs in other countries, will lose them soon enough as well sadly. The biggest threat to jobs will be automation and AI, and I somehow doubt that Mr Trump (or even Hillary for that matter) has addressed that inevitability.

Ozymandius2011

wes wrote: »

He sure as hell hasn't helped himself in that regard.



Nafta was supported by both parties in the Senate, if I remember right. Clinton signed it into law, but negotiations were started by Bush Senior. They weren't exactly served well by either party then.

Also, Donald Trump is happy to invest over seas:
Trump The Hypocrite: Investing Overseas Fine For Him

If the man practiced what he preached, he may have had a point, but as it stands he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Also, manufacturing could come back to Western countries, albeit heavily automated and requiring minimal Human involvement. All, the people who got jobs in other countries, will lose them soon enough as well sadly. The biggest threat to jobs will be automation and AI, and I somehow doubt that Mr Trump (or even Hillary for that matter) has addressed that inevitability.

He might argue that his promise was more about bringing back manufacturing industry, whereas he's mostly in the hospitality sector.

Foxtrol

ricero wrote: »

I smell the donald winning this election

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

He actually has a damn good chance now.
Many a slip twixt cup and lip though, he will fall into a few traps. I am not sure the American electorate care about that so much - they want to rock the boat no matter how crazy Donald appears.
Hillary will be just as divisive to many people.

Have you looked at the electoral college? Where can you see Trump doing better than Romney, especially when he is doing worse on many demographics?

I think you’re wrong about the wider US electorate, his base may not care but even moderate republicans have an issue with him.

Foxtrol

Walter H Price wrote: »

To be honest , if i was in the states right now it was a choice between Trump and Clinton id be backing Trump 100% . Cant stand Hilary.

Think the media are a little bias in their coverage of him to be honest , hes clearly not an idiot and to be honest he's played a blinder tapping into the political mood in america in order to go from a novelty also ran 12 months ago to the Republican nominee.

The news isn’t biased, if anything he gets an easy ride. All they’re doing is repeating the latest stupid thing he comes out with, if that makes him sound like an idiot then he should think before he speaks. There was a good piece of satire on this in the Washington Post today: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2016/06/14/how-to-cover-donald-trump-fairly-a-style-guide/

He has tapped into the mood of a certain element of the Republican base. It’s really the republican party’s own doing, as for the last 8 years they spoke in hyperbole about Obama (that he is socialist, tyrant etc) and then expected their base to elect a moderate.

I don’t think he has tapped into the larger US population, the only reason why he has any chance is because Clinton is very unlikeable (whether it is deserved or not).

InTheTrees

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

He actually has a damn good chance now.

No. He doesnt.

He will have to double his share of the vote from Hispanics and women.

How do you think he's going to do that? Not only is he not trying he's still actively insulting both those groups.

It's all Hilary from now on!

InTheTrees

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

.
If you look at the deindustrialisation of Detroit, where the auto industry was ruined by NAFTA, it calls into question whether African Americans have been well served by voting Democrat.

The auto industry decline started with the rise of imports from japan and Europe in the 60's. It gathered pace in the mid-70's with the oil crisis when US consumers turned against large domestic gas guzzlers. The Big Three have been producing noncompetitive crap vehicles for a long time and have never been able to produce a world class small car. Now their main money makers are mostly pick up trucks.

As far as Detroit voters are concerned the republican mishandling of the Flint Water crisis is far more damming.

The republican state government has shown callous and criminal disregard for its minority citizens.

Billy86

Foxtrol wrote: »

The news isn’t biased, if anything he gets an easy ride. All they’re doing is repeating the latest stupid thing he comes out with, if that makes him sound like an idiot then he should think before he speaks.

It's been beyond satire for a long while - I had a Trump fan point blank try to claim that the 'ban all muslims' comment was media distortion, that Trump never say it and only meant jihadists, etc, etc.

This was after I had linked to it and pointed out on a number of occasions that the link and quote I was using was from Donald Trump's own official website.

Naturally, the Trump fans response was that Trump didn't mean what he was saying, and by "Muslims" he meant "jihadists"... all the while not seeing the irony in that, given this Trump fans claim was Trump is 'all for religious tolerance'.

Some of them are on another planet, basically.

wes

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

He might argue that his promise was more about bringing back manufacturing industry, whereas he's mostly in the hospitality sector.

He invests abroad, and not in the US himself. Its the height of hypocrisy to criticize other industries for doing the same thing. He needs to practice what he preaches, and should immediately sell off all foreign assets and invest in the US, if he expects other US companies to follow his lead on that.

RobertKK

So Hillary claimed those classified state emails on her own email account which she subsequently deleted were safe, and nothing to see there.

Someone in Russia hacked the Democratic National committee and found all their material on Trump, it was over 200 pages long and they released it.

Hillary lies about how safe those emails were.

Hande hoche!

It's been a year since he announced his candidacy.

Robert ninja

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbM6WbUw7Bs

Ghost Train

I see a British teen has been arrested for trying or planning to assassinate Trump. Tried to take a police officers gun and has said he planned to shot him.
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36582770

Christy42

Ghost Train wrote: »

I see a British teen has been arrested for trying or planning to assassinate Trump. Tried to take a police officers gun and has said he planned to shot him.
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36582770

That has to be one of the worst plans for killing someone I have ever heard.

I mean horrible as well and an attack against the democratic process. I have absolutely no love for Trump but he should be defeated at the ballot box and in debate. Not with violence. Hope he gets shut away for a long time.

seamus

The language is always interesting to watch. This guy is a "British Teen". And no doubt there will be tonnes of analysis about his iffy upbringing, a constant struggle with mental health issues, mention of the word autism about 5,000 times.

You will never hear anyone say, "British terrorist".

Yet, if attempting to assassinate a presidential candidate doesn't count as terrorism, then I don't know what does.

beach_walker

So an unemployed, illegal alien tried to assassinate Trump then? :pac:

Its dead Jim

Christy42 wrote: »

That has to be one of the worst plans for killing someone I have ever heard.

I mean horrible as well and an attack against the democratic process. I have absolutely no love for Trump but he should be defeated at the ballot box and in debate. Not with violence. Hope he gets shut away for a long time.

He's meant to have been planning this for almost a year and that's what he comes up with? The French guy at the euros managed to gather the equipment first and is getting half the attention of this guy. If his plan was to get shot it was a good plan but if the police didn't even shoot him he must have given a pathetic attempt at even taking the gun.

Trump must be thankful of that gun free zone.

SEPT 23 1989

i wonder if a nut with a gun had gone for Clinton 2 would it be such a laughing matter today?

Womb_Raider

Quite despicable that the BBC spends half the article criticising Trump, on an article supposedly about an assassination attempt on him. I wonder if the "tone" of the British media will be questioned.....

Could you imagine the same reporting for Hilary? It would certainly be top news, and for a long time too.

seamus

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

i wonder if a nut with a gun had gone for Clinton 2 would it be such a laughing matter today?

The patheticness of the attempt would still be a laughing matter.

The difference would be in how the camps react to it.

Clinton would likely use it as a pointed attack on Trump supporters as evidence of their extremism and how dangerous they're making the world. All in a very serious and grave statement.

Trump is likely going to downplay this in his typical swarthy, swaggering style, use it to joke about how he has "the liberals" running scared and how they're so pathetic they can't even fire a gun properly.

It will likely be a decent boost for his campaign.

Womb_Raider

Welp, it took him a year to come up with this hair brained scheme. He'll have fifteen to twenty to reflect on what went wrong. Throwing away the best years of his life in the process.

Sad, really.

eviltwin

Not surprised someone tried to shoot him. Only surprised it took this long.