Donald Trump

El_Duderino 09

Pro Hoc Vice wrote:

Fox News polling in 4 way race has Clinton +9% the average all polling data is Clinton ahead by 5.1%

That looks pretty conclusive but it doesn't count undecideds. Undecideds usually break for the status quo but Brexit showed that that convention can't be relied upon and the US election is very much a similar choice between status quo and trying something radical.

rjpf1980

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He was kicking up a fuss to draw a bit of attention to that and away from whatever he didn't want the attention to focus on. Simple as that. He craves the spotlight and wouldn't miss those debates for the world.



That's missing the point that he has gotten this far without a single good or viable policy. He's an entertainer and she's a politician. Politics is boring compare to the guff he'll be talking about in the debate.



The premise for whining about the dates is that Hillary is such a poor debater that the debates were scheduled to clash with football games. The idea is that she wants to limit the viewership. She doesn't do well at speaking. You probably say how magnetic Bill Clinton was at the convention speech. I say that and thought 'jesus, this is what it takes to win an election. No wonder trump us hanging in there.'



I disagree. He will do a few things.
1 is to dance around her and entertain the crowd.
The other is to 'show a different side to himself' using a measured tone at times, saying things nobody has ever heard before like his struggles during X time in his life,
3 is to talk about a few actual viable policies.

The media will say he won at least one if he debates.

The debates have an impact but I don't think they are decisive in the way the once might have been. This election is being won and lost on social media.

Samaris

Two possible reasons why Trump isn't out on his ear by now, relating to your post, Arghus;

You know the bratty kid in the classroom, the one that gets away with lower-level badness because the teacher is so relieved they're not actually setting fire to their own head that they give lesser punishments rather than get into yet another brawl with said brat. Whereas if a normally good kid does something bad, they get the full squashing of the law (or school rules) because they're held to a higher standard than Bratface. It's unfair, but human nature it seems.

The second reason is that he's the Republican nominee now. If the Republicans turn away from him, there IS no-one else bar the exceptionally unpalatable choice of a Clinton Democratic candidate who they've been repeatedly told is actually the devil. Furthermore, there's a Supreme Justice seat in the balance. Losing the election is much more than four years, it will help shape the future for the next twenty or thirty years.

It's a nasty bind they're in. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, and partisan politics is so deeply entrenched that voting for "the opposition" is only half a step down from outright treason, particularly in elected Republican (or Democrat) representatives. One of the major failings of two-party systems. It polarises the electorate and becomes more about beating the other lot (who are, ofc, the demonspawn of Hitler, Pol Pot and the Zodiac Killer) than doing what's right for the country.

Pro Hoc Vice

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That looks pretty conclusive but it doesn't count undecideds. Undecideds usually break for the status quo but Brexit showed that that convention can't be relied upon and the US election is very much a similar choice between status quo and trying something radical.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

Have a look at 2012 It was Obama slightly ahead and final win 4% while I accept you point on undecided the problem for Trump is the way the numbers are going. Up to convention time Clinton was ahead swing to Trum during his Convention back to Clinton her convention and this week she looks to be getting a bump from all Trumpss actions. Next weeks numbers will be interesting.

Also Brexit is OK to look at but the polls around vote had moved from solid in to out based on campaign issues which fed into dissatisfaction. Trump is really pissing off whole sections of US society.

LorMal

rjpf1980 wrote: »

The debates have an impact but I don't think they are decisive in the way the once might have been. This election is being won and lost on social media.

I agree to a certain extent. It is a really worrying development. This is partially why we had Brexit. This is why Jeremy Corbyn can refuse to step down.

Annasopra

Foxtrol wrote: »

He'll destroy himself in the debates, that's why he's already talking about backing out of them

He is also claiming the whole election will be rigged.

Annasopra

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Basically he is the American Gerry Adams.

No way. Gerry is intelligent and thoughtful.

paulbok

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He is also claiming the whole election will be rigged.

Didn't he also claim that after several primaries when he didn't do so well, saying they were rigged/ cheating involved and he'd produce proof at a later time?

El_Duderino 09

paulbok wrote:

Didn't he also claim that after several primaries when he didn't do so well, saying they were rigged/ cheating involved and he'd produce proof at a later time?

To be fair it was completely rigged. They even tried to change the rules at the last moment to allow the delegates to vote freely and not be bound by the people's votes. That's pretty bad if you think about it objectively.

They were willing to set a dreadful present to stop the person the people voted for, from bring nominated.

Renegade Mechanic

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No way. Gerry is intelligent and thoughtful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QSSKNVVEF8

everlast75

http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000004533191/unfiltered-voices-from-donald-trumps-crowds.html

have a gander at this...

captbarnacles

captbarnacles wrote: »

Hilary hasn't even defined her policies yet. Imo she feels she has no need to as Trump will combust.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Plenty of reading for you there.

I see a couple of people saying Clinton has no policies, I think that translates as "I can't read and I haven't seen her on TV shouting 'build a wall!' at random"

No wonder politics is in such a poor state.

Foxtrol

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The premise for whining about the dates is that Hillary is such a poor debater that the debates were scheduled to clash with football games. The idea is that she wants to limit the viewership. She doesn't do well at speaking. You probably say how magnetic Bill Clinton was at the convention speech. I say that and thought 'jesus, this is what it takes to win an election. No wonder trump us hanging in there.'

Well the premise is totally wrong and just more Trump propaganda.

The debate dates were set in September 2015, before the primaries even started, by an independent group.

Every election the debates clash with Football or Baseball playoffs, this isn’t a new thing.

Just like in the primaries, facts don’t matter to Trump at all though when he’s crying about ‘unfairness’ and things being ‘rigged’ (to be fair, facts never matter to him).

Foxtrol

One thing I find extra crazy is that in the latest Fox Poll Trump is at 39% at the moment but only 34% have more trust in him when it comes to nuclear weapons. I don’t know how you can vote for someone who you say you don’t have faith in this area.

Renegade Mechanic

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Plenty of reading for you there.

I see a couple of people saying Clinton has no policies, I think that translates as "I can't read and I haven't seen her on TV shouting 'build a wall!' at random"

No wonder politics is in such a poor state.

A fair tax system.
Making sure the wealthy, Wall Street, and corporations pay their fair share in taxes.

I just can't believe that. If there was an ounce of truth to that, wall st would be funding and supporting Trump. I just can't believe a woman making millions speaking there is going to work against their interests.

Big mouth has a website too, in which "build a wall" is explained more level headedly, talking about issues along with his positions on other things.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com

WALL.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/pay-for-the-wall

Introduction: The provision of the Patriot Act, Section 326 - the "know your customer" provision, compelling financial institutions to demand identity documents before opening accounts or conducting financial transactions is a fundamental element of the outline below. That section authorized the executive branch to issue detailed regulations on the subject, found at 31 CFR 130.120-121. It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year.

Immigration reform.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

When politicians talk about “immigration reform” they mean: amnesty, cheap labor and open borders. The Schumer-Rubio immigration bill was nothing more than a giveaway to the corporate patrons who run both parties.

Real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first – not wealthy globetrotting donors. We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change.

Tax reform.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform

And plenty more. Not saying he's good. Just saying he's better than Hillary.

CMOTDibbler

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Big mouth has a website too, in which "build a wall" is explained more level headedly, talking about issues along with his positions on other things.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com

WALL.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/pay-for-the-wall

Except the proportion of remittances that comes from illegal Mexican immigrants is a guess. The best estimate is that this accounts for less than half of the total amount.

But that's ignoring the complete stupidity and logistical difficulties of actually building the wall. A lot of the border is river and some more of it is in land that a wall couldn't be built on. And that's not even getting to the whole ludicrous idea of whether a wall would work. There used to be a wall in Berlin and even machine gun towers and a shoot to kill policy still didn't stop people getting across it.

The actual responsibility for illegal immigration into the US is unscrupulous employers. Why don't I hear Trump attacking them?

Foxtrol

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

I just can't believe that. If there was an ounce of truth to that, wall st would be funding and supporting Trump. I just can't believe a woman making millions speaking there is going to work against their interests.

Even if she taxed them it wouldn’t come close to the damage Trump being elected would bring to the stock market. The crash the day after a Trump victory would be greater than anything seen post Brexit. Markets thrive on stable leadership and Trump is the opposite, that’s before his talk of taxing multinationals, trade wars, and defaulting on national debt.

ohnonotgmail

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Except the proportion of remittances that comes from illegal Mexican immigrants is a guess. The best estimate is that this accounts for less than half of the total amount.

But that's ignoring the complete stupidity and logistical difficulties of actually building the wall. A lot of the border is river and some more of it is in land that a wall couldn't be built on. And that's not even getting to the whole ludicrous idea of whether a wall would work. There used to be a wall in Berlin and even machine gun towers and a shoot to kill policy still didn't stop people getting across it.

The actual responsibility for illegal immigration into the US is unscrupulous employers. Why don't I hear Trump attacking them?

ooh, ooh, ooh i know. is it because he is one of them?

My name is URL

Love the bit on his site about how China is the big bad guy costing Americans jobs and prosperity.

All the baseball caps, t-shirts, stickers etc used in his campaign. All made in fcuking China :pac:

Not new for him either apparently!

From 2011 - http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-admits-gear-made-china-labels/story?id=13472355

CMOTDibbler

My name is URL wrote: »

Love the bit on his site about how China is the big bad guy costing Americans jobs and prosperity.

All the baseball caps, t-shirts, stickers etc used in his campaign. All made in fcuking China :pac:

Not new for him either apparently!

From 2011 - http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-admits-gear-made-china-labels/story?id=13472355

It's all bullcrap. His so-called immigration reform could have been written on the back of a postage stamp. These are his three 'proposals':

1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.
2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.
3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans.

A child of eight could have come up with those. They are completely meaningless in the context of the presidency. Number two for example forgets to mention that the president has no say over laws passed in individual states.

But Donald thinks the presidency is some sort of dictatorship apparently :rolleyes:

Renegade Mechanic

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Except the proportion of remittances that comes from illegal Mexican immigrants is a guess. The best estimate is that this accounts for less than half of the total amount.

But that's ignoring the complete stupidity and logistical difficulties of actually building the wall. A lot of the border is river and some more of it is in land that a wall couldn't be built on. And that's not even getting to the whole ludicrous idea of whether a wall would work. There used to be a wall in Berlin and even machine gun towers and a shoot to kill policy still didn't stop people getting across it.

The actual responsibility for illegal immigration into the US is unscrupulous employers. Why don't I hear Trump attacking them?

Socialists attack the employer. The employer will almost always automatically employ the cheapest option.

Better to thin out the pool of easily available, cheap, illegal labour to begin with. Increase demand for labour, wages go up.
Mr big wig decides 'well **** you then, I'm moving to China. Why can't we be like Europe, where it's "legal" because poor countries are under the same laws as rich countries grrr grumble grumble', and that's where the tax teforms and trade war "reform" (assuming it's not bull****) comes in.

If it's going to wind up just as - or even more - expensive to trade from other countries as it is to trade within America itself, then it's going to take nothing short of petulant spite to refuse to trade within the States - which won't matter, because people will likely take their place.
Assuming lenders don't fight back by holding out on startups within the country "for reasons"..

CMOTDibbler

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Socialists attack the employer. The employer will almost always automatically employ the cheapest option.

Better to thin out the pool of easily available, cheap, illegal labour to begin with. Increase demand for labour, wages go up.
Mr big wig decides 'well **** you then, I'm moving to China. Why can't we be like Europe, where it's "legal" because poor countries are under the same laws as rich countries grrr grumble grumble', and that's where the tax teforms and trade war "reform" (assuming it's not bull****) comes in.

If it's going to wind up just as - or even more - expensive to trade from other countries as it is to trade within America itself, then it's going to take nothing short of petulant spite to refuse to trade within the States - which won't matter, because people will likely take their place.
Assuming lenders don't fight back by holding out on startups within the country "for reasons"..

Employer = 'big-wig'

Most of the illegal workers are working in low paid jobs in seasonal and service businesses. You're not going to find the landscaping contractors, painters or cleaning companies moving to China. :rolleyes:

Renegade Mechanic

Foxtrol wrote: »

Even if she taxed them it wouldn’t come close to the damage Trump being elected would bring to the stock market. The crash the day after a Trump victory would be greater than anything seen post Brexit. Markets thrive on stable leadership and Trump is the opposite, that’s before his talk of taxing multinationals, trade wars, and defaulting on national debt.

... You reckon the markets will function properly with Hillary? As in you don't reckon it's going to **** no matter who gets in?
At least if Trump wins they'll have someone to blame for the coming crash. It's one of the few reasons I'd almost perfer Hillary over Trump because I can just imagine the cloud of smug, sanctimonious self gratification descending over the world as people collectively go It's all Trumps fault the economy crashed. I'd almost want Hillary to win just so the buggers would have to STFU lest they accidentally blame their golden girl... :rolleyes:

Renegade Mechanic

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Employer = 'big-wig'

Most of the illegal workers are working in low paid jobs in seasonal and service businesses. You're not going to find the landscaping contractors, painters or cleaning companies moving to China. :rolleyes:

Try reading it again :rolleyes:
Anyone deciding to move overseas is another situation. As for the landscapers, painters or cleaning companies having to pay a proper wage for legal immigrants - who worked for their place - and nationals because there's not enough loopholes/illegals to exploit, well boo ****ing hoo...

Ronald Wilson Reagan

I have to say I agree with trump on some issues, it just a pity he's an insincere hypocrite, never mind the narcissism and paranoia.

CMOTDibbler

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Try reading it again :rolleyes:
Anyone deciding to move overseas is another situation. As for the landscapers, painters or cleaning companies having to pay a proper wage for legal immigrants - who worked for their place - and nationals because there's not enough loopholes/illegals to exploit, well boo ****ing hoo...

Not the situation I was talking about. Large companies with the capability to move overseas are too highly regulated to risk employing illegals. It's cash businesses who can keep them 'off the books' that are the main culprits.

Perhaps you'd try reading my original post again and re-read the above. I've no sympathy for such employers. I said to go after them didn't I?

El_Duderino 09

Foxtrol wrote:

Well the premise is totally wrong and just more Trump propaganda.

It's not really though. If you saw her speak at the convention and saw how much better Bill was when he spoke. It made sense to me that trump is hanging in there. She is so poor at speaking compared to Bill and if she was a decent speaker she would have the whole thing wrapped up already.

Trump has such confidence when he speaks. He NEVER deliberates on anything. That inspires confidence in people. I think you will come away thinking trump never said anything during the debate and the general public will think it was 50/50

Winterlong

Talk in the media about Trump deciding to pull out of the race in the coming days. I cant see this happening.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/is-donald-trump-poised-to-drop-out-of-the-presidential-race-and-what-would-happen-if-he-did-a7170566.html

Christy42

Winterlong wrote: »

Talk in the media about Trump deciding to pull out of the race in the coming days. I cant see this happening.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/is-donald-trump-poised-to-drop-out-of-the-presidential-race-and-what-would-happen-if-he-did-a7170566.html

It does seem like random speculation unfortunately.

My name is URL

Trump tells richest county in America that it's failing economically, cites closures of factories in other states as evidence

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/03/trump-tells-virginia-town-it-s-failing-cites-the-wrong-place.html

But Trump seems to think it’s part of the Rust Belt. Toward the end of his speech—to an atypically preppy, professional, clean-cut audience—the candidate bashed the county economy.

“You’re doing lousy over here, by the way, I hate to tell you,” he said.


Then he went back to naming factories.
“Stanley Furniture closed its plant,” he continued.

Stanley Furniture did indeed recently close a plant, in 2014. That plant was in North Carolina.

He also mentioned the closure of a plant owned by Invista, a Koch Industries company that produces fabric and carpeting. That plant was two hours from Ashburn, and it closed eight years ago.

Then Trump discussed job losses in North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Ohio.

Of course, being the retards that they are; his supporters still defend his idiocy.

As for him dropping out of the race, he's said from the beginning that's what he'd do if his polling numbers went down.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-why-hed-drop-out-of-race-for-president-2015-10?r=US&IR=T

A sham and a pussy is all he is