Donald Trump

seamus

Foxtrol wrote: »

Those who quote that portion of the amendment, in a way to make out that they currently have any sort of power (aside from the power to shoot deer, a burglar, their wife, a school full of kids) , are totally deluding themselves.

Indeed, the US armed forces have been continually keeping themselves one step ahead of any "well armed militia" for decades.

What does a small town police force need with a SWAT team or an armored car? Nothing except to ensure that the population can never be better armed than they are.

If civil war broke out in the states it would be a bloodbath of multiple factions, not the people -v- the government.

Samaris

It's a bit amusing to proclaim what the founding fathers would do. They could as easily look at the sort of weaponry we have today and chorus "We can get together on the grenade launcher at least?"

It's too long ago. You might as well try to apply 1900s traffic regulations to 2016 as proclaim because that was said then, it means they all have the right to any damn weapon they want.

K-9

Exeggcute wrote: »

True but one difference between Trump and Hillary is Trump wants to work with Putin to smash ISIS.

Hillary will double down on arming them to overthrow Assad.

Which option do you think is worse?

Trump is dependent on Russian finance houses which could very well explain his odd stance on Russia and NATO, which is odd.

Who's the least worst option? I really don't have a clue but there seems to be some idea out there Trump is non interventionist when his comments on ISIS suggests otherwise.

From watching debates and elections it is sickening how much influence the military has in US politics. The cries of USA, USA and all that and unfortunately the US president is expected to pander to this element.

Give me Sanders or Ron Paul's non interventionist stance but that's not the choice we have.

Billy86

Deleted User wrote: »

donald trump looks like the villain in a movie where the hero is a dog

Who's gonna say it... who's gonna say it!? :pac:

ohnonotgmail

Samaris wrote: »

It's a bit amusing to proclaim what the founding fathers would do. They could as easily look at the sort of weaponry we have today and chorus "We can get together on the grenade launcher at least?"

It's too long ago. You might as well try to apply 1900s traffic regulations to 2016 as proclaim because that was said then, it means they all have the right to any damn weapon they want.

if somebody wants to spend a minimum of $200 every time they fire the thing i say let them at it.

Billy86

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if somebody wants to spend a minimum of $200 every time they fire the thing i say let them at it.

What about a gatling gun style grenade launcher, how much would that cost to use?

Just asking on behalf of my freedoms is all.

ohnonotgmail

Billy86 wrote: »

What about a gatling gun style grenade launcher, how much would that cost to use?

Just asking on behalf of my freedoms is all.

$200 tax per round plus the cost of buying them. a very expensive afternoon.

Billy86

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

$200 tax per round plus the cost of buying them. a very expensive afternoon.

Yeah, but the sky will be a crimson freedom!

wes

Exeggcute wrote: »

Yeah the Pentagon - sure what would they know.

ISIS already existed under the name Al Qaeda in Iraq years before they started calling themselves ISIS, and they exist due to the Iraq war:

The Terror Strategist: Secret Files Reveal the Structure of Islamic State

--SNIP--
Bakr gradually became one of the military leaders in Iraq, and he was held from 2006 to 2008 in the US military's Camp Bucca and Abu Ghraib Prison. He survived the waves of arrests and killings by American and Iraqi special units, which threatened the very existence of the IS precursor organization in 2010, Islamic State in Iraq.
--SNIP--

Plenty of blame to go around for ISIS. The finger can hardly be solely pointed at Obama.

ohnonotgmail

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah, but the sky will be a crimson freedom!

freedom aint cheap.

Jelle1880

Foxtrol wrote: »

It’s laughable if you think ‘a well armed’ militia could do anything significant against the US military/law enforcement if a government became overbearing.

I’ll try to look for it but I remember a general literally laughing when a reporter asked him about 2nd amendment rights and how it currently gives people the power to rebel.

Those who quote that portion of the amendment, in a way to make out that they currently have any sort of power (aside from the power to shoot deer, a burglar, their wife, a school full of kids) , are totally deluding themselves.

To quote Jim Jefferies: It's like bringing guns to a drone fight.

The claim that they keep guns to protect themselves is so outdated, it would be fine if everyone was bringing muskets but the government is so much more advanced than the average civilian.

ohnonotgmail

Jelle1880 wrote: »

To quote Jim Jefferies: It's like bringing guns to a drone fight.

The claim that they keep guns to protect themselves is so outdated, it would be fine if everyone was bringing muskets but the government is so much more advanced than the average civilian.

there are a couple of these in private hands and still operational in the states

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_QF_6-pounder

enough to ruin any soldiers day.

Exeggcute

wes wrote: »

ISIS already existed under the name Al Qaeda in Iraq years before they started calling themselves ISIS, and they exist due to the Iraq war:



Plenty of blame to go around for ISIS. The finger can hardly be solely pointed at Obama.

That's just intellectual dishonesty. ISIS expanded exponentially under Obama's watch as a direct result of his policies.

Billy86

Exeggcute wrote: »

That's just intellectual dishonesty. ISIS expanded exponentially under Obama's watch as a direct result of his policies.

So just to be clear... it's intellectually dishonest to state ISIS existed before Obama despite the fact they did exist before Obama. But claiming Obama created ISIS even though they existed before he took office... that is intellectual honesty? Because the second one is what Trump is claiming:

“He’s the founder of ISIS. He’s the founder of ISIS. He’s the founder. He founded ISIS.”

Quotes like the one above are part of why he is getting destroyed in polls at the moment.

EDIT: And just in case anyone thinks that quote is (somehow?) taken out of context, he later expanded on it - http://i.imgur.com/S6wvaIn.jpg

wes

Exeggcute wrote: »

That's just intellectual dishonesty. ISIS expanded exponentially under Obama's watch as a direct result of his policies.

What are you on about? I never made any such claim, just pointing out they existed before his term :rolleyes:.

Means Of Escape

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Obama founded ISIS"

This series of The Apprentice has so many twists.

Not only did the group spawn during his tenure , his government funded the transport of weapons from the Libyan arsenal in support for others attempting to overthrow other governments that were deemed "tyrannical"in the guise of an Arsb Spring

Working splendidly

Means Of Escape

K-9 wrote: »

Bombing them has made things worse so the solution is... bomb them even more.

Sit down and talk?
Judging by their attrocities to date and radical ideals it's unlikely they will be putting the kettle on soon

Exeggcute

Billy86 wrote: »

So just to be clear... it's intellectually dishonest to state ISIS existed before Obama despite the fact they did exist before Obama. But claiming Obama created ISIS even though they existed before he took office... that is intellectual honesty? Because the second one is what Trump is claiming:



Quotes like the one above are part of why he is getting destroyed in polls at the moment.

EDIT: And just in case anyone thinks that quote is (somehow?) taken out of context, he later expanded on it - http://i.imgur.com/S6wvaIn.jpg

wes wrote: »

What are you on about? I never made any such claim, just pointing out they existed before his term :rolleyes:.

The group first started referring to itself as ISIS in 2014 when it elected its caliph Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi.

Trump was referring to ISIS.

You can go through all the mental gymnastics you like to point to the origins of elements that went on to join other groups leading to ISIS but Trump specifically said ISIS and ISIS officially declared its existence and caliphate in June of 2014.

And the Pentagon leaks confirm it in black and white that its policy of arming these groups could lead to an Islamic Caliphate.

Asmitting Trump is right is ok, nobody is going to label you a Trump supporter for it or think that he is any less of a disaster. Maybe you just can't handle the truth that ISIS flourished thanks to Obama's decisions.

wes

Exeggcute wrote: »

The group first started referring to itself as ISIS in 2014 when it elected its caliph Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi.

Trump was referring to ISIS.

You can go through all the mental gymnastics you like to point to the origins of elements that went on to join other groups leading to ISIS but Trump specifically said ISIS and ISIS officially declared its existence and caliphate in June of 2014.

And the Pentagon leaks confirm it in black and white that its policy of arming these groups could lead to an Islamic Caliphate.

Trump is claiming Obama is the founder. This is nonsense, and its astonishing that so many people are falling over themselves to defend such nonsense.
Asmitting Trump is right is ok, nobody is going to label you a Trump supporter for it or think that he is any less of a disaster. Maybe you just can't handle the truth that ISIS flourished thanks to Obama's decisions.

The group just changed its name FFS. It was the exact same guys, before and after the name change. There the same group with a different name. If a company re-brands, its still the same company for example.

It amazing the leaps in logic people are going to.

Billy86

Exeggcute wrote: »

The group first started referring to itself as ISIS in 2014 when it elected its caliph Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi.

Trump was referring to ISIS.

You can go through all the mental gymnastics you like to point to the origins of elements that went on to join other groups leading to ISIS but Trump specifically said ISIS and ISIS officially declared its existence and caliphate in June of 2014.

And the Pentagon leaks confirm it in black and white that its policy of arming these groups could lead to an Islamic Caliphate.

Asmitting Trump is right is ok, nobody is going to label you a Trump supporter for it or think that he is any less of a disaster. Maybe you just can't handle the truth that ISIS flourished thanks to Obama's decisions.

ISIS was founded in 1999 and began calling themselves Islamic State in 2006. But don't let the facts or reality get in the way of a good rant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Renegade Mechanic

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there are a couple of these in private hands and still operational in the states

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_QF_6-pounder

enough to ruin any soldiers day.

And why not? Actually, more people should have them. You'd be noticed a lot sooner by authorities, pulling one of those monstrosities on your way to a daily school massacre..

ohnonotgmail

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

And why not? Actually, more people should have them. You'd be noticed a lot sooner by authorities, pulling one of those monstrosities on your way to a daily school massacre..

i'm not objecting to their possession. i wouldnt mind one myself.

The flag that ISIS have adopted looks like it was created on MS Paint. Totally ridiculous flag.

The black is a nice touch, though. Pretty sinister.

Exeggcute

Billy86 wrote: »

ISIS was founded in 1999 and began calling themselves Islamic State in 2006. But don't let the facts or reality get in the way of a good rant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Hahaha did you even read your own link? There is a difference between IS, ISIL and ISIS. Each is an evolution of the former and with each change their numbers, power and territory expanded.

Here I will quote it for you:

The group first began referring to itself as the Islamic State (الدولة الإسلامية ad-Dawlah al-Islāmiyah) or IS[37] in June 2014, when it proclaimed itself a worldwide caliphate,[38][39] and named Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as its caliph.[40]

So you can nitpick all you like. Trump was referring to ISIS and the Pentagon leaks prove that Obama's policy was to support them to overthrow Assad.

Which is why the US had a ****fit when Russia started bombing the **** out of them.

But hey, keep thinking Obama is your lord and saviour. The facts are the facts, no matter how much you deny them

Billy86

Like I said, keep ignoring reality as you give out to others for 'nitpicking' your own nitpicking.

From the link

In January 2006, the group joined other Sunni insurgent groups to form the short-lived Mujahideen Shura Council. After al-Zarqawi was killed in June 2006, the Mujahideen Shura Council merged in October 2006 with several more insurgent factions to establish ad-Dawlah al-ʻIrāq al-Islāmiyah, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI).[62] The ISI was led by Abu Omar al-Baghdadi and Abu Ayyub al-Masri,[63] until they were killed in a US–Iraqi operation in April 2010, after which Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi became the group's leader.

Here is the referenced article where it refers to them as just that - Islamic State. Note the date: October 2006 http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2006/10/the_rump_islamic_emi.php

Don't worry, we all know you'll try to spin this some way. Hopefully you do a better job than you have been so far.

B_Wayne

Gotta love when people claim Trump is capable of a nuanced argument...

Exeggcute

Billy86 wrote: »

Like I said, keep ignoring reality as you give out to others for 'nitpicking' your own nitpicking.

From the link


Here is the referenced article where it refers to them as just that - Islamic State. Note the date: October 2006 http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2006/10/the_rump_islamic_emi.php

Don't worry, we all know you'll try to spin this some way. Hopefully you do a better job than you have been so far.

Hahaha you still don't get it do you? Did Trump say IS? Did Trump say ISIL?

No, he said ISIS. Which was declared in June 2014.

I don't give a rats ass about its evolutionary history. There is no escaping the fact that the Pentagon leaks prove that Trump's claim hits very close to home.

B_Wayne wrote: »

Gotta love when people claim Trump is capable of a nuanced argument...

I never said he was. I was merely pointing out the mental gymnastics from Obama supporters to deflect from the fact that Obama's policies have directly led to the formation of ISIS in 2014.

Samaris

Exeggcute wrote: »

Hahaha you still don't get it do you? Did Trump say IS? Did Trump say ISIL?

No, he said ISIS. Which was declared in June 2014.

I don't give a rats ass about its evolutionary history. There is no escaping the fact that the Pentagon leaks prove that Trump's claim hits very close to home.

Do you honestly think Trump knows the difference between ISIL, IS, ISIS and a monkey's arse?

And ...yes, you can ignore its creation and evolution, but you really, really can't argue based on that.

Unless Obama rang up and said "hey al-Baghdadi, my fellow Muslim, I have a really good name for your merger..."

Billy86

Exeggcute wrote: »

Hahaha you still don't get it do you? Did Trump say IS? Did Trump say ISIL?

No, he said ISIS. Which was declared in June 2014.

I don't give a rats ass about its evolutionary history. There is no escaping the fact that the Pentagon leaks prove that Trump's claim hits very close to home.



I never said he was. I was merely pointing out the mental gymnastics from Obama supporters to deflect from the fact that Obama's policies have directly led to the formation of ISIS in 2014.

So just to be 100% clear on this... you are saying that because the S for 'Syria' had yet to be part is IS' full title... that they were a whole other thing and never existed before 2014. And you're accusing others of intellectual dishonesty? Pull the other one, we're not on The_Donald reddit. :pac:

By your logic, if Trump were to win the election and ISIS slip into some of Turkey and so become known as ISIST, that would mean Trump literally founded ISIST. But there's not even the slightest doubt in my mind that if that were to happen, your tone would be 100% different.



On another note, good to know Man Utd are completely wrong and were founded in 1902 - even though their badge and all their info says 1878. You should get on the phone and let them know they're completely wrong, but don't bother with that until you get onto Inda and have him remind us that Irish history pre 1947 doesn't exist. It was something else entirely, because after all, the name was different. The people need to know!!

sting60

My info is Trump will pull out of the race as his empire is suffering and a loss(heavy)will destroy him.Clinton at 1/4 is the greatest return on investment in the history of finance.