Donald Trump

K-9 · 17-08-2016 1:48pm

Unless this Breitbart guy turns out to be some evil genius like Karl Rove!

It's almost as if Trump has given up on Hispanic and African American votes but he needs to discover a new section of the electorate to compensate for these lost votes. Republicans might normally only get 10-20% of the black vote but if Trump only gets 1-5% it has to be made up somewhere else. Rove targeted the evangelical vote which often didn't vote and that got George W. in.

The voter fraud thing is a hark back to vote early, vote often. There's a great book from the 60's called the politics of fear that shows how politicians exploit prejudices and insecurities and Trump's campaign is just taking it to its natural extreme. The Republicans recently lost a Supreme Court case about election monitors so you've 2 Republican rallying calls in 1, Democratic vote rigging and meddling, liberal Supreme Court justices.

Rjd2 · 17-08-2016 1:51pm

K-9 wrote: »

Unless this Breitbart guy turns out to be some evil genius like Karl Rove!

It's almost as if Trump has given up on Hispanic and African American votes but he needs to discover a new section of the electorate to compensate for these lost votes. Republicans might normally only get 10-20% of the black vote but if Trump only gets 1-5% it has to be made up somewhere else. Rove targeted the evangelical vote which often didn't vote and that got George W. in.

.

To be fair getting Pence was a canny move for that reason. However I do wonder if Cruz's "endorsement" and his rather colorful life hurts somewhat and his views on abortion have been hard to nails own for ages and well of course all those wives.....

Billy86 · 17-08-2016 1:54pm

Penn wrote: »

It's the whole thing about the election being rigged and asking people to keep an eye on election halls to make sure people aren't voting more than once that's by far the most dangerous thing coming out of his mouth lately.

The GOP have been touting that one strongly since 2008 if I recall actually, just another example of Trump equating to the chickens coming home to roost from all of their messaging the last 8 years.

Billy86 · 17-08-2016 2:05pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

If there wasn't one already, the rift has widened between Trump and the GOP:

Breitbart no less

Oh, not just Breitbart... Roger Ailes too.

Yes that is right, Roger Ailes. Donald Trump, who is doing historically badly among women, has taken on Roger Ailes as an advisor. For anyone wondering who Roger Ailes is, he is the real looney toon behind FOX News (the Murdochs are more interested in just profit, and some have said they are "ashamed and sickened" of Ailes) who just stepped down as CEO amidst a whole rash of sexual harassment accusations from numerous female employees.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/17/us/politics/donald-trump-roger-ailes.html?_r=0

At this stage, I'm declaring myself back on the 'Trump does not want to win' bandwagon. As in, he could not be doing a worse job post-convention if he tried... it really genuinely would be very hard to make this big a mess of things without meaning to.

K-9 · 17-08-2016 2:09pm

Rjd2 wrote: »

To be fair getting Pence was a canny move for that reason. However I do wonder if Cruz's "endorsement" and his rather colorful life hurts somewhat and his views on abortion have been hard to nails own for ages and well of course all those wives.....

Trump tried early on to appeal to the evangelical vote and it was cringe worthy so he just gave up, and as you say Cruz had that side sewn up anyway.

Many might not bother to vote because of those things you mentioned. The economy is the one Trump needs to focus on above everything else and make Bill's words from the 90's "tis the economy stupid" come back to haunt him.

Foxtrol · 17-08-2016 2:20pm

K-9 wrote: »

He says because he is under tax audit he can't but there is precedent, Nixon.

That's in no way stopping him. He has stated that Romney releasing his tax returns was a big mistake and that he isn't going to do similar.

Dyr · 17-08-2016 2:25pm

Trump has feck all time to turn it around anyway, a lot of states allow postal voting etc before the actual day so some states can be already be wrapped up before polling day

PopePalpatine · 17-08-2016 2:26pm

Speaking of Breitshart and Drumpf's love-in, I think I remember one of their higher-ups quitting and claiming that they were bribed by Drumpf's campaign.

Yep, here's a Buzzfeed News article on the allegations.

Samaris · 17-08-2016 2:26pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

That's in no way stopping him. He has stated that Romney releasing his tax returns was a big mistake and that he isn't going to do similar.

On being asked why he was able to release his tax returns some years ago when they were under audit, he also snapped that he didn't care about it then. Which is a somewhat suspicious statement, but I'll not leap to conclusions on it (or...I'll try really hard not to

)

Okay, no, I will. Whether it's Russia, not having the money he says he does, tax avoidance* or not donating nearly as much to charity as he says he has, it does look like there's something afoot. Does he think he can avoid releasing them forever though?

*Avoidance, is that correct? Not illegal, just finding all the loopholes to not pay tax, rather than illegally not paying taxes.

Edit: Not finished it yet, but pretty good article on the whole tax return debacle here.
http://time.com/4441399/donald-trump-tax-returns/

Foxtrol · 17-08-2016 2:28pm

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

That's what I can't understand with these people to say of all states (Trumps home state) that he is within a hundred miles of carrying or even close to it on current polls, is just madness. How can anyone take such claims seriously it means everything these people say is either lies or trolling.

He was campaigning in Connecticut 2 days ago, a state where Obama won by 8%, Hillary is up by similar, hasn't voted republican since 1988, has a democrat controlled house and senate, a democrat governor, democrats for both senate seats and 5 house reps,and hasn't elected a republican in over a decade (the most recent republican elected has come out saying he is now supporting Clinton).

It's pure stupidity/ego/trying to throw the election.

Billy86 · 17-08-2016 2:37pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

That's in no way stopping him. He has stated that Romney releasing his tax returns was a big mistake and that he isn't going to do similar.

Exactly, he's basically admitted there are dodgy things in there at this point with those types of comments. Though I suspect it has as much, if not more, to do with the fact that he doesn't have nearly as much money as he wants people to believe he does. And the thought of people finding out something like that must be absolutely crippling for someone like Trump.

ohnonotgmail · 17-08-2016 3:10pm

Samaris wrote: »

On being asked why he was able to release his tax returns some years ago when they were under audit, he also snapped that he didn't care about it then. Which is a somewhat suspicious statement, but I'll not leap to conclusions on it (or...I'll try really hard not to )

Okay, no, I will. Whether it's Russia, not having the money he says he does, tax avoidance* or not donating nearly as much to charity as he says he has, it does look like there's something afoot. Does he think he can avoid releasing them forever though?

*Avoidance, is that correct? Not illegal, just finding all the loopholes to not pay tax, rather than illegally not paying taxes.

Edit: Not finished it yet, but pretty good article on the whole tax return debacle here.
http://time.com/4441399/donald-trump-tax-returns/

i think the correct term is avoision.

lee_baby_simms · 17-08-2016 4:05pm

This reshuffle is surely last chance saloon for Trump. He needs to run a flawless campaign for the next 3 months. Stick solidly to a centrist/right message from the teleprompter with no gaffes.

Personally I don't think he's capable of the above for more than 2 or 3 days but we'll see.

Apparently Bannon is an abrasive hothead so i'm expecting fireworks at some point.

K-9 · 17-08-2016 4:10pm

Bambi wrote: »

Trump has feck all time to turn it around anyway, a lot of states allow postal voting etc before the actual day so some states can be already be wrapped up before polling day

Plenty of campaigns have turned it around before, Trump is incapable of doing it though.

The guy Fox News sacked, that's a jaw opening moment! Wow.

Hande hoche! · 17-08-2016 4:13pm

One point is that Manafort was brought in to deal with the possibility of a brokered convention. No that Trump is the nominee it makes some sense to bring in other expertise. Well be interesting to see how Bannon does.

K-9 · 17-08-2016 4:14pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

He was campaigning in Connecticut 2 days ago, a state where Obama won by 8%, Hillary is up by similar, hasn't voted republican since 1988, has a democrat controlled house and senate, a democrat governor, democrats for both senate seats and 5 house reps,and hasn't elected a republican in over a decade (the most recent republican elected has come out saying he is now supporting Clinton).

It's pure stupidity/ego/trying to throw the election.

It seems he genuinely believes the polls are wrong. On that note he hired a pollster who, it seems, gets poll results that whoever hires them wants to see!

Nice earner if you can get it. Trump is so self deluded why shouldn't somebody make money out of it, sure he's made money out of doing that himself!

lee_baby_simms · 17-08-2016 4:21pm

K-9 wrote: »

The guy Fox News sacked, that's a jaw opening moment! Wow.

Trump needs to win the black vote, the college educated female vote, the hispanic vote...so he turns to the disgraced, lecherous and racist dinosaur from fox news to help. Madness.

InTheTrees · 17-08-2016 4:59pm

K-9 wrote: »

It seems he genuinely believes the polls are wrong. On that note he hired a pollster who, it seems, gets poll results that whoever hires them wants to see!

Nice earner if you can get it. Trump is so self deluded why shouldn't somebody make money out of it, sure he's made money out of doing that himself!

One of the reasons Romney lost so badly in 2012 was that his campaign didn't believe the polls and hired their own who told them what they wanted to hear.

Pro Hoc Vice · 17-08-2016 6:55pm

What now!

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/291700-trump-before-intelligence-briefing-i-dont-trust-intelligence

Hande hoche! · 17-08-2016 7:19pm

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

What now!

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/291700-trump-before-intelligence-briefing-i-dont-trust-intelligence

Perhaps his first intelligence briefing will change his opinion on the intelligence services' merit?

Billy86 · 17-08-2016 7:56pm

So the guy that is calling on Russia to hack the actual US government does not trust the US intelligence services?

This Manafort connection (among others) seems to be getting more and more transparent by the day... between this and the Ailes appointment, it's looking more and more like Trump doesn't want to be elected but is there to sow the seeds of discontent as much as possible. Anyone want to think why that might be?

KingBrian2 · 17-08-2016 7:59pm

Samaris wrote: »

These two nominees have something of myth about them. They're both up against the only person they could beat. They're both unusual for their party (Clinton is far more to the right than most Democrats, and Trump...works on his own map.) and yet there's an element of extreme examples of their own party too. Clinton is a woman, she's part of the Establishment, she's an old campaigner that knows where the bodies are buried and has a few skeletons of her own (I mean that metaphorically, just in case anyone runs off with the Clintons-as-serial-assassins notion again, seriously, where did that one even come from?). Trump is a semi-independent "self-funded" billionaire (or millionaire, who knows) who, as it turns out, appears to have much of the financial acumen of an egg but is still fabulously wealthy and loves to show it. He's quite blindingly racist and..well, sorry to the few Trumpets in here, but also quite dumb. They're on the one hand barely of their party at all, and on the other, half the stereotypes that's given to their respective parties.

I've not particularly hidden that I am Unsure about Clinton. I suspect to some extent she has been unfairly vilified by the likes of Trump and some of the dirtiest electioneering that's ever been blatantly public in a democratic(ish) election. I reckon she's tough and ruthless, but I don't reckon she's actually evil. I've seen no evidence for it so far anyway, only a lot of accusations. It isn't a good thing though that Trump is so demanding the limelight that the questions can't get asked.

Actually, on the note of racism, KingBrian, I think you asked me earlier if I was buying into that Trump said that all Mexicans are rapists. That's not the accusation being levelled at him in general, so I'm going to correct that slightly. Is Trump spreading racist guff about Mexican immigrants - and yes, he is. It's a subtle enough difference, but it is an important one.

To take his own words:
"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have a lot of problems and they're bringing those problems with us (sic, presumably "to us" was intended). They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

"The Mexican government is smarter, much sharper, much more cunning. And they send the bad ones over because they don't want to pay for them. They don't want to take care of them."

His..ah..proof of this when asked his sources was an article that talked about rape of female asylum seekers and immigrants by human traffickers, gang members, other migrants or government forces, to which he responded;

"Well, someone's doing the raping! I mean someone's doing it! Who's doing the raping? Who's doing the raping?"

So yes, he did not stand up and say "All Mexicans are rapists!" Is -that- the bar we're actually setting for him? Using a hammer instead of a mace? He strongly implied, and in fact said, that the ordinary Hispanic people living in some of the most pro-Trump states, are rapists, drug-smugglers and criminals sent over by the Mexican government like sleeper agents so they don't have to deal with them. That is really, really not any better.

This is what I don't get Samaris, Trump is being accused of all sorts of crimes and yet Hillary Clinton still gets off with ignoring the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks. Their is so must anti establishment voices in America precisely because people are not being listened to. Informed American citizens are aware of the culpable parties the ties to Jihadists in Saudi Arabia. That for decades Islamic clerics were preaching in Mosques in Brooklyn, Florida & Oklahoma. The other day a London cleric was arrested for his fiery sermons. Clinton has not been asked to distance herself from these people who she and others have called democrats in Syria & Iraq.

CMOTDibbler · 17-08-2016 8:39pm

KingBrian2 wrote: »

This is what I don't get Samaris, Trump is being accused of all sorts of crimes and yet Hillary Clinton still gets off with ignoring the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks. Their is so must anti establishment voices in America precisely because people are not being listened to. Informed American citizens are aware of the culpable parties the ties to Jihadists in Saudi Arabia. That for decades Islamic clerics were preaching in Mosques in Brooklyn, Florida & Oklahoma. The other day a London cleric was arrested for his fiery sermons. Clinton has not been asked to distance herself from these people who she and others have called democrats in Syria & Iraq.

Where should Islamic clerics be preaching?

Foxtrol · 17-08-2016 8:45pm

KingBrian2 wrote: »

This is what I don't get Samaris, Trump is being accused of all sorts of crimes and yet Hillary Clinton still gets off with ignoring the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks. Their is so must anti establishment voices in America precisely because people are not being listened to. Informed American citizens are aware of the culpable parties the ties to Jihadists in Saudi Arabia. That for decades Islamic clerics were preaching in Mosques in Brooklyn, Florida & Oklahoma. The other day a London cleric was arrested for his fiery sermons. Clinton has not been asked to distance herself from these people who she and others have called democrats in Syria & Iraq.

I would not call anyone who is supporting Trump an 'informed American citizen', quite the opposite.

osarusan · 17-08-2016 8:57pm

Not that I have much sympathy for them, but republicans who know how an election campaign should be run must be tearing their hair out.

InTheTrees · 17-08-2016 9:26pm

osarusan wrote: »

Not that I have much sympathy for them, but republicans who know how an election campaign should be run must be tearing their hair out.

Agreed.

No sympathy at all. Trump is their guy. If anything this is beautiful payback for the decades of smear the Clinton's have had to endure.

And if they lose this one they also lose the conservative majority on the supreme court and that's a VERY big deal.

El_Dangeroso · 17-08-2016 9:32pm

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

What now!

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/291700-trump-before-intelligence-briefing-i-dont-trust-intelligence

To be fair that's the calmest and most in control he has sounded in weeks. It's par for the course Trump-rhetoric naturally but I wonder is this the start of his much vaunted 'pivot' we keep hearing about.

I'll be glued to politics news for the forseeable, this election is better than corrie for twists and turns.

Penn · 17-08-2016 9:44pm

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

What now!

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/291700-trump-before-intelligence-briefing-i-dont-trust-intelligence

I'm guessing that rather than relying on US intelligence, he'll just outsource it...

...to Russia...

KingBrian2 · 17-08-2016 9:46pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Agreed.

No sympathy at all. Trump is their guy. If anything this is beautiful payback for the decades of smear the Clinton's have had to endure.

And if they lose this one they also lose the conservative majority on the supreme court and that's a VERY big deal.

He is right about US intel. They got it completely wrong on Iraq. Hans Blix said no WMD's were found in Iraq. The Jihadi's were planning the 9/11 attacks years before 2001 and the West's good friend Musharraf did not even Know Osama was in his country. Oh what a cruel joke. US intel on all the potential dangers to the world from gangs crossing the border from Mexico. No intel on any of this and lets not forget a defection of an intelligence asset Edward Snowdon.

mariaalice · 17-08-2016 9:52pm

Just shows pandering to the lowest common denominator does not always work.

Donald Trump

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