Donald Trump

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The arguments of the Clinton camp is that she can return America to the years of Bill Clinton which is false. America is in a very different position since then and wisdom since then has been only a Democrat can sort out the economy. None of the Democrats are willing to tackle the big concerns in the country they prefer to sit back and hope the economy will improve. At the moment entire states are facing a growing unemployment crisis. The Dems did nothing for the homeless, nothing for the incoming immigrants and nothing for the disadvantaged areas.

Where have I said that. I made the comment in response to your post that Clinton increased national debt. He did not, I made no claim his wife would do the same. You have a habit of making a statement when called on it you change the narrative, are you working for Trump that's pure his election play book.

Foxtrol

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The arguments of the Clinton camp is that she can return America to the years of Bill Clinton which is false. America is in a very different position since then and wisdom since then has been only a Democrat can sort out the economy. None of the Democrats are willing to tackle the big concerns in the country they prefer to sit back and hope the economy will improve. At the moment entire states are facing a growing unemployment crisis. The Dems did nothing for the homeless, nothing for the incoming immigrants and nothing for the disadvantaged areas.

I’m not sure how you can say the Democrats are not willing to tackle big economics issues when the Republicans refuse to discuss any sort of tax increase, even a small increase in rates for the super rich. Most members of the Republican party have actually been bullied into signing a pledge that they wont under any circumstances.

Trump’s current plan is to provide huge tax cuts while simultaneously investing massively in infrastructure, the number just don’t add up. Obviously himself and his family would gain enormously from the proposed tax cuts, but I’m sure that is just a total coincidence.

ArtSmart

So the documented recovery of the US economy under a democratic pres is.... coincidence?

or wait- - a hoax? like climate change, or Noah's Ark, or Trumps wealth and charity giving, or....

Bazzo

This is fascinating to watch. Trump supporters who are trying to disguise themselves as "Just anti-Hillary" come in and make patently untrue remarks about Hillary, or her husband, or **** it just anything remotely left wing or with even the most tenuous links to the democratic party. Get called on their bull****. Quickfire respond with some more bull**** about how Hillary Clinton is "shady" or just completely change what they were talking about and act as if they're responding to some non-existant claim somebody has made. Disappear for a day or two until Trump pulls another "masterstroke"(He's actually a genius dontcha know, he just plays the bumbling incompetent dufus very very very very very very well) and rinse repeat with the above.

K-9

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

What are you saying it is clear that during his time the budget was balanced.

"Clinton’s large budget surpluses also owe much to the Social Security tax on payrolls. Social Security taxes now bring in more than the cost of current benefits, and the "Social Security surplus" makes the total deficit or surplus figures look better than they would if Social Security wasn’t counted. But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while."

Balanced budgets are a good thing for economic conservatives, just not when Bill or other leftists do them.

CMOTDibbler

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Clinton should not get off the hook too easy here. Let the record be clear.
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/

Why did you post a link that directly contradicts your own argument? :eek:

That is just mad.

Pro Hoc Vice

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why did you post a link that directly contradicts your own argument? :eek:

That is just mad.

It's what he always does it is usually either random claim that says noting at all or other claim where the link says the exact opposite. Just like trump, America crime is up, no it's not, well Americans are afraid and believe crime is up, of course they do you keep telling them lies.

Billy86

For those keeping track on US surpluses & deficits - http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php

In the 55 years since 1961, the US has only had a budget surplus four times. One in 1969, and four in a row from 1998-2001. You might notice that three of those four years as time Clinton was in office (and the deficit dropped considerably in 2001, but Clinton had left things in such good order that the surplus remained).

Reagan
1981 $79 Billion Deficit
1982 $128 Billion Deficit
1983 $207.8 Billion Deficit
1984 $185.4 Billion Deficit
1985 $212.3 Billion Deficit
1986 $221.2 Billion Deficit
1987 $149.7 Billion Deficit
1988 $155.2 Billion Deficit

Bush Snr.
1989 $152.5 Billion Deficit
1990 $221.2 Billion Deficit
1991 $269.3 Billion Deficit
1992 $290.4 Billion Deficit

Clinton
1993 $255.1 Billion Deficit
1994 $203.2 Billion Deficit
1995 $164 Billion Deficit
1996 $107.5 Billion Deficit
1997 $22 Billion Deficit
1998 $69.2 Billion Surplus
1999 $125.6 Billion Surplus
2000 $236.4 Billion Surplus

Bush
2001 $127.3 Billion Surplus
2002 $157.8 Billion Deficit
2003 $377.6 Billion Deficit
2004 $413 Billion Deficit
2005 $318 Billion Deficit
2006 $248 Billion Deficit
2007 $161 Billion Deficit
2008 $459 Billion Deficit

Mardy Bum

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why did you post a link that directly contradicts your own argument? :eek:

That is just mad.

Rather Trumpian even.

Donald is that you...?

Pro Hoc Vice

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Rather Trumpian even.

Donald is that you...?

I would not be surprised.

Exeggcute

This election so far has been equal parts fascinating and depressing.

Two of the worst candidates ever put forward for president.

Watching the Democrats descend to the same level of ignorance and hysteria as the Republican party.

Watching the wall-to-wall propaganda being put forward by the media in its attack on Trump and defence of Clinton.

It is breathtaking and frankly, scary, to see the level of media collusion and corruption across the board.

People used to laugh (rightly) at Fox News for the blatant deception and pro-GOP propaganda being pumped out but this election has seen the very same level of deceit from CNN, MSNBC, ABC and also across social media platforms like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit etc.

It is actually fascinating watching otherwise rational intelligent people go all in in their willingness to lie, distort and otherwise deny reality to defend a scumbag like Hillary Clinton.

At least Trump supporters don't even deny he is a giant prick. But Clinton's fans take it to a whole new level.

It is monumentally depressing and scary to see such mass delusion and propaganda.

No matter who wins, America is well and truly screwed. Hopefully the damage will be contained to their own backyard for a change but the odds of that are slim.

Pro Hoc Vice

Exeggcute wrote: »

This election so far has been equal parts fascinating and depressing.

Two of the worst candidates ever put forward for president.

Watching the Democrats descend to the same level of ignorance and hysteria as the Republican party.

Watching the wall-to-wall propaganda being put forward by the media in its attack on Trump and defence of Clinton.

It is breathtaking and frankly, scary, to see the level of media collusion and corruption across the board.

People used to laugh (rightly) at Fox News for the blatant deception and pro-GOP propaganda being pumped out but this election has seen the very same level of deceit from CNN, MSNBC, ABC and also across social media platforms like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit etc.

It is actually fascinating watching otherwise rational intelligent people go all in in their willingness to lie, distort and otherwise deny reality to defend a scumbag like Hillary Clinton.

At least Trump supporters don't even deny he is a giant prick. But Clinton's fans take it to a whole new level.

It is monumentally depressing and scary to see such mass delusion and propaganda.

No matter who wins, America is well and truly screwed. Hopefully the damage will be contained to their own backyard for a change but the odds of that are slim.

I may have missed it but I am unaware on this forum of any person "willingness to lie, distort and otherwise deny reality to defend a scumbag like Hillary Clinton." but I am happy to be corrected. In fact my reading of social media and even traditional media is Clinton is not great but hey look at this idiot Trump that's a whole other crazy.

Exeggcute

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

I may have missed it but I am unaware on this forum of any person "willingness to lie, distort and otherwise deny reality to defend a scumbag like Hillary Clinton." but I am happy to be corrected. In fact my reading of social media and even traditional media is Clinton is not great but hey look at this idiot Trump that's a whole other crazy.

I wasn't referring to anyone here. Though I am sure they exist.

In my opinion they are both crazy but in different ways. It's a **** sandwich

BorneTobyWilde

Good speech here by Trump
Looking for black vote.. ''you have voted for Hilary for years and look where you are now''
Says he will do more for black communities than she every will, that blacks are just a vote and nothing else to Hilary.

BorneTobyWilde

Trump admitting mistakes and says he regrets them.
'' i make mistakes, but I will always tell you the truth''

BorneTobyWilde

''Who the hell are you and what did you do with Donald''

Reactions to speech.

Huge praise rolling in for Trump.

MadYaker

Funny coming from a guy whose told more lies than anyone else during this campaign. Too little too late I'm afraid.

Pro Hoc Vice

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

''Who the hell are you and what did you do with Donald''

Reactions to speech.

Huge praise rolling in for Trump.

Can you point to the high praise.

I think the speech you mean

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/full-text-donald-trumps-speech-on-227095

Even handed reporting in my opinion

"framing the tensions between black communities and police as a law-and-order issue risks alienating black voters, who interpret “law and order” as a racist dog whistle.

However, the pro-police stance puts Mr. Trump on the side of Americans across the country who are shocked by the riots and fearful of terrorism in a world that appears increasingly out of control and dangerous.

Mrs. Clinton has repeatedly sided with the Black Lives Matter movement amid the ongoing conflict. She snubbed the National Fraternal Order of Police, the largest police union in the country, by not even seeking their endorsement.

The speech marked the second consecutive day in which Mr. Trump delivered prepared remarks from a teleprompter, breaking with his usual impromptu stump speech."

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/donald-trump-pushes-law-and-order-agenda-direct-ap/

My own view is while the message will play well with his many of his supporters there are risks with the message.

lee_baby_simms

MadYaker wrote: »

Funny coming from a guy whose told more lies than anyone else during this campaign. Too little too late I'm afraid.

He's treating the voting public like a battered wife.

"I've changed honey, I really have."

Samaris

Decent Skin wrote: »

Do you always jump to conclusions that people who don't ignore facts and who don't agree with you are biased and easily thrilled ?

I contemplated going for that low-hanging fruit of an argument too, but decided life was too short

I have some sympathy for the Republican party over this debacle. I may politically lean towards the left myself, but it doesn't mean I don't respect many of their talking points and views. They've got an absolute swinging lunatic representing them at the moment and I think he can only do more damage to the party over the next few weeks.

This election at the moment is a capital example of when two-party systems go wrong. Not that rainbow states do any better at times, that can end up as a total mess as well.

K-9

There definitely are ordinary, decent Republicans who are ashamed of Trump and the direction the party has taken the last 8 years or so. I've even seen a few posters on boards who'd probably be Republican leaning go for Hillary by default because of the alternative.

Foxtrol

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Good speech here by Trump
Looking for black vote.. ''you have voted for Hilary for years and look where you are now''
Says he will do more for black communities than she every will, that blacks are just a vote and nothing else to Hilary.

The speech that he made in a district that is 95% white, with a crowd that was 99% white?

B0jangles

https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/766317243089248256/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Throwing Black republicans out of your rallies is not the best way to build support in black communities

beach_walker

God it's gonna be a depressing election night in November. Out of ~400 million people, the most important job in the world will go to a 70 year old woman, seemingly suffering from serious health issues whos history shows to be a particularly nasty piece of work. Well at least we won't have to suffer the same clownish celebrating that accompanied Obama's victories.

Pro Hoc Vice

beach_walker wrote: »

God it's gonna be a depressing election night in November. Out of ~400 million people, the most important job in the world will go to a 70 year old woman, seemingly suffering from serious health issues whos history shows to be a particularly nasty piece of work. Well at least we won't have to suffer the same clownish celebrating that accompanied Obama's victories.

She will be younger than Regan when he took office. Her doctor had stated she is in perfect health and documents purporting to have come from her are fake. She is also younger than trump be a couple of years. A professor recently diagnosed him as mad. Just a bit of balance.

beach_walker

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

She will be younger than Regan when he took office. Her doctor had stated she is in perfect health and documents purporting to have come from her are fake. She is also younger than trump be a couple of years. A professor recently diagnosed him as mad. Just a bit of balance.

Oh boy, Regan! That's supposed to make me feel better?!

And checking yes you're right, she'll be younger than him by a couple of hundred days on taking office. And yes, she's under a year and a half younger than Trump. Personally I don't think these are substantial enough to to make a difference really. She's old, very old. It's madness giving the job of US president and all the associated stress etc to such a person like that. So if she makes the eight years, she'll be as capable as RR was in his last days?!

Do you really think she's in good health? Call me cynical, but I wouldn't trust her doctor as far as I could throw him. I'm sure JFK's doc would have said likewise What do you make of the recent "odd" behaviour from her?

Does the professor in question often diagnose people without meeting or examining them? Unusual approach I must say.

ohnonotgmail

beach_walker wrote: »

Oh boy, Regan! That's supposed to make me feel better?!

And checking yes you're right, she'll be younger than him by a couple of hundred days on taking office. And yes, she's under a year and a half younger than Trump. Personally I don't think these are substantial enough to to make a difference really. She's old, very old. It's madness giving the job of US president and all the associated stress etc to such a person like that. So if she makes the eight years, she'll be as capable as RR was in his last days?!

Do you really think she's in good health? Call me cynical, but I wouldn't trust her doctor as far as I could throw him. I'm sure JFK's doc would have said likewise What do you make of the recent "odd" behaviour from her?

Does the professor in question often diagnose people without meeting or examining them? Unusual approach I must say.

all of these arguments against hilary also apply similarly to trump. and it seems like trump has a head-start on senility.

B0jangles

beach_walker wrote: »

Do you really think she's in good health? Call me cynical, but I wouldn't trust her doctor as far as I could throw him. I'm sure JFK's doc would have said likewise What do you make of the recent "odd" behaviour from her?

Does the professor in question often diagnose people without meeting or examining them? Unusual approach I must say.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing to Hillary Clinton?

beach_walker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

all of these arguments against hilary also apply similarly to trump.

Yes* but it doesn't matter as he won't be president. And they're not really arguments as such, I'm not making the case (are there even any Americans on this thread, yet alone ones who'd be swayed by me) for her or Trump.


*except physical health I'd counter.

beach_walker

B0jangles wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what you are doing to Hillary Clinton?

Well given the poster didn't mention what the professor was a professor of, I gave the benefit of the doubt and assumed Psychiatry or the likes. I claim no such professional backing. Or even claim I know what is exactly wrong with Hillary's health.