Donald Trump

Foxtrol · 20-09-2016 3:22pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Clinton gets a lot of the blame for Benghazi, now I know it's Fox pushing this most of the time but throw enough mud and some of it will stick, getting the blame for the deaths of people sounds a lot worse than not releasing tax returns.

Also she has changed her story so much over this email server that she is getting caught out in interviews, it's easier answer questions when telling the truth than trying to remember what lie to say.

There have been 8 separate investigations into Benghazi, most led by republicans, and despite trying their best they could not find anything serious that could stick to her. Trump has never needed to make a life or death decisions but a huge number of decisions he has made in his working life put his own companies out of business, which were disastrous for thousands of workers and those he owed money (unsurprisingly he made sure they were never too disastrous for himself).

Clinton definitely hasn’t been truthful as she could have been regarding her server but Trump lies consistently. Politifact is an independent website that fact checks statements made by the candidates and from those they reviewed they found 70% of Trump’s fell into the bucket of either mostly false, false, or pants on fire, while only 28% of Clinton’s statements fell into those buckets.

You posted two of the most frequently trotted out arguments against Clinton. After comparing these apparent weaknesses for her to Trump, I again ask how people can say with any authenticity she is no better than him?

super_furry · 20-09-2016 3:26pm

Hitler or Musolini, he's crazy enough to make the threat of nuclear war a genuine concern again.

alchemist33 · 20-09-2016 3:40pm

I dislike Trump as much as the next person, but the Clinton campaign and supporters are risking alienating average voters by the level of hyperbole and outrage at every stupid thing that comes out of the mouths of Trump and his supporters. The latest is Trump Jr comparing Syrian refugees to Skittles . Stipid, yes, but "disgusting"? Hardly. He has a point, which is wrong, but he's not saying they are less than tasty sugary foodstuffs. Ditto for Trump's comments about Hillary's armed secret service detail. Nobody nowhere is saying law enforcement officers should be disarmed but instead of focussing on this, the Democrats called it incitement to violence which it surely was not.

It seems the most reactionary, easily offended Twitterati supporting Clinton have the loudest voices and her campaign will be seen as being leed by them unless they rein in the outrage.

Penn · 20-09-2016 3:47pm

_oveless_ wrote: »

Trump is literally hitler
he needs to be stopped at all costs, Hillary is a woman and a democrat
she is clearly going to be the best president in history.
We need to stop talking about her foreign policy record especially regarding the middle east, Trump is going to make it hard for people to illegally enter the united states that's literally no different from the nazi's.
Trump is a misogynist which means that he has a pathological hatred of women he will bring back pay inequality for women and sign laws that force them to quit their jobs when they are married or have babies.
Donald Trump literally hates black people he will bring back slavery. People who are supporting Trump are literally committing hate crimes we need to identify these people and target them.
We need to to stop talking about Hillary's relationship with Saudi Arabia it's a whole different country there it's their culture to oppress women and kill homosexuals trying to impose our values on them would be racist, Trump wants to kill or deport all muslims in the US it's no different from the holocaust I literally cant even right now Trump makes me sick.

The trouble with hyperbole is that when it's used in a discussion about Donald Trump, you need to go much, much further than you usually would.

Foxtrol · 20-09-2016 4:28pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

I dislike Trump as much as the next person, but the Clinton campaign and supporters are risking alienating average voters by the level of hyperbole and outrage at every stupid thing that comes out of the mouths of Trump and his supporters. The latest is Trump Jr comparing Syrian refugees to Skittles . Stipid, yes, but "disgusting"? Hardly. He has a point, which is wrong, but he's not saying they are less than tasty sugary foodstuffs. Ditto for Trump's comments about Hillary's armed secret service detail. Nobody nowhere is saying law enforcement officers should be disarmed but instead of focussing on this, the Democrats called it incitement to violence which it surely was not.

It seems the most reactionary, easily offended Twitterati supporting Clinton have the loudest voices and her campaign will be seen as being leed by them unless they rein in the outrage.

That's a common theme on both sides. Trump’s twitter followers lost their minds over her calling some of his supporters ‘deplorables’.

At this point the election has gotten so bad on both sides I don't see this swaying things either way.

Arturo Bandini · 20-09-2016 4:51pm

_oveless_ wrote: »

Trump is literally hitler
he needs to be stopped at all costs, Hillary is a woman and a democrat
she is clearly going to be the best president in history.
We need to stop talking about her foreign policy record especially regarding the middle east, Trump is going to make it hard for people to illegally enter the united states that's literally no different from the nazi's.
Trump is a misogynist which means that he has a pathological hatred of women he will bring back pay inequality for women and sign laws that force them to quit their jobs when they are married or have babies.
Donald Trump literally hates black people he will bring back slavery. People who are supporting Trump are literally committing hate crimes we need to identify these people and target them.
We need to to stop talking about Hillary's relationship with Saudi Arabia it's a whole different country there it's their culture to oppress women and kill homosexuals trying to impose our values on them would be racist, Trump wants to kill or deport all muslims in the US it's no different from the holocaust I literally cant even right now Trump makes me sick.

This is a good summary of this thread so far.

Galwayguy35 · 20-09-2016 5:00pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

There have been 8 separate investigations into Benghazi, most led by republicans, and despite trying their best they could not find anything serious that could stick to her. Trump has never needed to make a life or death decisions but a huge number of decisions he has made in his working life put his own companies out of business, which were disastrous for thousands of workers and those he owed money (unsurprisingly he made sure they were never too disastrous for himself).

Clinton definitely hasn’t been truthful as she could have been regarding her server but Trump lies consistently. Politifact is an independent website that fact checks statements made by the candidates and from those they reviewed they found 70% of Trump’s fell into the bucket of either mostly false, false, or pants on fire, while only 28% of Clinton’s statements fell into those buckets.

You posted two of the most frequently trotted out arguments against Clinton. After comparing these apparent weaknesses for her to Trump, I again ask how people can say with any authenticity she is no better than him?

Just calling it like I see it, if Clinton was honest from the beginning she'd have been a shoo in for the Oval Office.

And horrible as it sounds, the bomb blast in NW will probably work against her and swing more votes to Trump.

Butters1979 · 20-09-2016 5:08pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

I dislike Trump as much as the next person, but the Clinton campaign and supporters are risking alienating average voters by the level of hyperbole and outrage at every stupid thing that comes out of the mouths of Trump and his supporters. The latest is Trump Jr comparing Syrian refugees to Skittles . Stipid, yes, but "disgusting"? Hardly. He has a point, which is wrong, but he's not saying they are less than tasty sugary foodstuffs. Ditto for Trump's comments about Hillary's armed secret service detail. Nobody nowhere is saying law enforcement officers should be disarmed but instead of focussing on this, the Democrats called it incitement to violence which it surely was not.

It seems the most reactionary, easily offended Twitterati supporting Clinton have the loudest voices and her campaign will be seen as being leed by them unless they rein in the outrage.

The thing is, he didn't compare people to skittles. He used an analogy to make the point that even though most refugees aren't dangerous, some are and unless you know exactly which ones, taking in any is a risk. The question is do you think the risk is acceptable.
Although very basic, it was actually a good analogy. The reaction to this on t'internet seems to be loads of people, including the head of skittles itself, shouting about how 'people aren't skittles'.
They either don't understand the analogy, do understand it but have no reasonable counter argument, or maybe are so fast to be outraged by whatever comes out of his camp they haven't even thought about it. All 3 possible reasons are pretty stupid.

We all know people aren't skittles. Thanks.

InTheTrees · 20-09-2016 5:11pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Just calling it like I see it, if Clinton was honest from the beginning she'd have been a shoo in for the Oval Office.

Except what has she ever been found guilty of?

If you actually pay attention to the republican smear campaign over the years they've never found anything despite the wealth and power of the republican party.

They found bill had an affair with an intern, and it was only because the intern's supposed friend ratted on her. And they have the email business, which is more the blundering of inept techies than the clandestine intelligence horror the republicans are implying.

So you're basically left saying that the way you "see it" is to believe the republican smears?

dwayneshintzy · 20-09-2016 5:12pm

So how many Syrian refugees have been involved in terror attacks in the US, then?

Billy86 · 20-09-2016 5:14pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Just calling it like I see it, if Clinton was honest from the beginning she'd have been a shoo in for the Oval Office.

And horrible as it sounds, the bomb blast in NW will probably work against her and swing more votes to Trump.

To throw the conspiracy theory hat on for a second... I wonder if we'll see a big increase in terror attacks in the US leading up to the election because of this? Not that Trumps campaign would be involved, but because ISIS and co would absolutely love Trump to win. Plays right into their hands in so many levels.

Butters1979 · 20-09-2016 5:20pm

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

So how many Syrian refugees have been involved in terror attacks in the US, then?

He doesn't want to ban Syrians specifically. He wants to ban all Muslims. I'm not arguing that's right. But I am certainly arguing you've missed the point.

If you ask how many Muslims have been involved in terrorist attacks in the US, the answer is pretty much most of the attacks they've had in the last 20 years.

dwayneshintzy · 20-09-2016 5:22pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

He doesn't want to ban Syrians specifically. He wants to ban all Muslims. I'm not arguing that's right. But I am certainly arguing you've missed the point.

If you ask how many Muslims have been involved in terrorist attacks in the US, the answer is pretty much most of the attacks they've had in the last 20 years.

The Trump Jnr. Tweet that people are upset about, the Tweet you referenced yourself, explicitly refers to Syrians.

jooksavage · 20-09-2016 5:23pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

He doesn't want to ban Syrians specifically. He wants to ban all Muslims. I'm not arguing that's right. But I am certainly arguing you've missed the point.

If you ask how many Muslims have been involved in terrorist attacks in the US, the answer is pretty much most of the attacks they've had in the last 20 years.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619

Foxtrol · 20-09-2016 5:23pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Just calling it like I see it, if Clinton was honest from the beginning she'd have been a shoo in for the Oval Office.

And horrible as it sounds, the bomb blast in NW will probably work against her and swing more votes to Trump.

That’s my whole point of the post you originally responded to, the way you see it means you either have your head in the sand or just see her as negatively as him due to personalities.

If that’s the way people choose to see it/vote then that’s up to them but don’t pretend there’s a legitimate justification for it, when you look at the facts they clearly don’t back it up.

Billy86 · 20-09-2016 5:29pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

He doesn't want to ban Syrians specifically. He wants to ban all Muslims. I'm not arguing that's right. But I am certainly arguing you've missed the point.

If you ask how many Muslims have been involved in terrorist attacks in the US, the answer is pretty much most of the attacks they've had in the last 20 years.

Nope. Pretty sure white supremacists and Christian fundamentalist terrorists are both close to, if not ahead of them on this front actually.

Butters1979 · 20-09-2016 5:30pm

jooksavage wrote: »

http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619

I said in the last 20 years. That data is from 1985 to 2005. also when it comes to number of deaths, it excluded September 11th attacks becuase it doesn't suit their agenda.

Now go away with your deflection ******** out of date, selective data, jew bashing leftie website.

Butters1979 · 20-09-2016 5:35pm

Billy86 wrote: »

Nope. Pretty sure white supremacists and Christian fundamentalist terrorists are both close to, if not ahead of them on this front actually.

Well I'm happy you're sure. If there was white supremacist and Christian fundamentalists immigrating in massive numbers then you'd have an argument to stop them too. Maybe trump would also be trying to stop them entering the country.

The point is that isn't an option because they're not immigrating. They're home grown and also a big problem for America. The argument because we already have problems of our own so can't argue against creating more doesn't really make sense.

wes · 20-09-2016 5:36pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

If you ask how many Muslims have been involved in terrorist attacks in the US, the answer is pretty much most of the attacks they've had in the last 20 years.

You could argue that gun owners have been involved in a 100% of shootings. So we should ban gun owners then...... Its same level of logic. Also, the Skittles things work for gun owners too.

wes · 20-09-2016 5:37pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

jew bashing leftie website.

I take you can back up your claim of Antisemitism, you aim at that website.....

Hank Scorpio · 20-09-2016 5:39pm

I hope he wins, he's so anti PC it's hilarious.

Butters1979 · 20-09-2016 5:40pm

wes wrote: »

You could argue that gun owners have been involved in a 100% of shootings. So we should ban gun owners then...... Its same level of logic. Also, the Skittles things work for gun owners too.

Well I'm all for gun control. It's insane why they think everybody having access to firearms is a 'right'. But the same issue really. They're not immagarating they're already there and a big problem. Banning guns might make more sense.

wes · 20-09-2016 5:43pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

Well I'm all for gun control. It's insane why they think everybody having access to firearms is a 'right'. But the same issue really. They're not immagarating they're already there and a big problem. Banning guns might make more sense.

The gun owners thing was a joke, but would a 100% ban on all gun ownership be fair (which would be roughly equivalent to Trumps Muslim ban)?

wes · 20-09-2016 5:43pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I hope he wins, he's so anti PC it's hilarious.

He left being anti-pc ages ago. He is on to deranged and divorced from reality at this point.

pumpkin4life · 20-09-2016 5:44pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I hope he wins, he's so anti PC it's hilarious.

I'll be honest, one of the out and out funniest moments this year was the collective meltdown on facebook over Brexit.

POPULISM!

YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO VOTE THIS WAY! I KNOW BETTER THAN ALL OF YOU! WHERES PAUL KRUGMAN? WHAT DOES HE THINK?

BUNCH OF SOCCER HOOLIGANS!

MAYBE WE CAN HAVE A SECOND ELECTION?!?

I sincerely hope Mr Trump will continue in the important work of ruining SJW lives.

Foxtrol · 20-09-2016 5:46pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

He doesn't want to ban Syrians specifically. He wants to ban all Muslims. I'm not arguing that's right. But I am certainly arguing you've missed the point.

If you ask how many Muslims have been involved in terrorist attacks in the US, the answer is pretty much most of the attacks they've had in the last 20 years.

You’re as likely to die from your own furniture crushing you as you are to die from terrorism. Let’s ban all furniture…

Butters1979 · 20-09-2016 5:48pm

wes wrote: »

The gun owners thing was a joke, but would a 100% ban on all gun ownership be fair (which would be roughly equivalent to Trumps Muslim ban)?

No, neither would be fair. No one ever said they would.
That's not the point. He's basically asking voters do they think the risk is worth it. A lot are saying no, plenty are also saying yes however. Too many completely don't understand the analogy in the first place.

Foxtrol wrote: »

You’re as likely to die from your own furniture crushing you as you are to die from terrorism. Let’s ban all furniture…

Age old argument and pointless. Furniture crushing you isn't a deliberate crime. And car crashes are much more deadly so you could just use that as the typical argument.

It's not necessarily about reducing your risk of death as the risk is extremely low statistically. People see terrorist attacks as an attack on their country, their way of life, their future and they want to defend against that. People accept accidents in life, they don't accept teenagers in malls getting stabbed because they're not muslim.

wes wrote: »

I take you can back up your claim of Antisemitism, you aim at that website.....

Foxtrol · 20-09-2016 5:58pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

Age old argument and pointless. Furniture crushing you isn't a deliberate crime. And car crashes are much more deadly so you could just use that as the typical argument.

It's not necessarily about reducing your risk of death as the risk is extremely low statistically. People see terrorist attacks as an attack on their country, their way of life, their future and they want to defend against that. People accept accidents in life, they don't accept teenagers in malls getting stabbed because they're not muslim.

It’s pointless because those who buy into the ‘ban all muslims’ line are afraid so refuse to think logically. Trump feeds off and fans these flames of fear as he knows these people will look past his many, many flaws and buy into his ‘quick fix’ answer when it’s just a con.

Butters1979 · 20-09-2016 6:02pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

It’s pointless because those who buy into the ‘ban all muslims’ line are afraid so refuse to think logically. Trump feeds off and fans these flames of fear as he knows these people will look past his many, many flaws and buy into his ‘quick fix’ answer when it’s just a con.

Well terrorism breeds fear doesn't it? I don't think people are 'refusing to think logically' They're just not all thinking the way you want them to.

Rightwing · 20-09-2016 6:03pm

Hilary's health has to be a concern, is it pneumonia or parkinsons or worse?

Donald Trump

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