Bad news for Dublin shoppers

KingBrian2

Another well known Department store is shutting its premises. First we had the famous Clery's around since the time of 1916 and now British retailer Debenhams is to close.:(

It goes to show big or small if your products are not bringing in the consumer than the market can be devastating. On the bright side the staff can take their experiences with them when looking for another job.:cool:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/interim-examiner-appointed-to-debenhams-ireland-after-years-of-losses-1.2645575

athtrasna

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Another well known Department store is shutting its premises. First we had the famous Clery's around since the time of 1916 and now British retailer Debenhams is to close.:(

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/interim-examiner-appointed-to-debenhams-ireland-after-years-of-losses-1.2645575

Where does it say it's closing? Examinership does not equal closure. Ask Mothercare and B&Q!

L1011

Its very unlikely the Dublin branches will close. Down the sticks they might

As well as athtrasna's examples Best Menswear, Homebase, Besteller (Jack Jones/Vera Moda), Elverys and others have exited examinership

KingBrian2

athtrasna wrote: »

Where does it say it's closing? Examinership does not equal closure. Ask Mothercare and B&Q!

It could very easily go the way of Clery's which would indeed be a sad day for Dublin.

athtrasna

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It could very easily go the way of Clery's which would indeed be a sad day for Dublin.

Clery's closed in receivership not examinership afaik

L1011

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It could very easily go the way of Clery's which would indeed be a sad day for Dublin.

Clerys was one store with a vastly valuable building to sell out under it.

Debenhams lease their stores - plural - many off the Roche family of Roches Stores.

It is extremely unlikely they will close all their stores in Dublin if even any.

KingBrian2

Even if I altered my caption to explain that Debenhams is not closing at the moment that does not prevent the fact that their is potential layoffs to come, cost saving measures to be taken. Not something to be thrilled about.

ED E

Clerys is a poor comparison as they were in trouble for years then had the roof come down on the lobby which would be a big deal for a thriving business.

Jaymayo91

Admit it Brian, you're wrong ðŸ˜

newacc2015

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Even if I altered my caption to explain that Debenhams is not closing at the moment that does not prevent the fact that their is potential layoffs to come, cost saving measures to be taken. Not something to be thrilled about.

Examierships are usually done to negotiate rent reductions. Look at it this way. If there is lay offs, the store can remain competitive and stay open. There is a chance of a majority of staff keeping their jobs. Or they keep their existing staff level and shutter all the stores in a few years in liquidation.

At the end of the day, it is a business to make profit.

MarkAnthony

Interesting this went into Examinership rather than Administration as most retailers with a UK base does. I assume it's purely the Irish arm, I'll have to do some digging on this one. I smell extra marks in Company law next week :pac:

eeguy

Slim chance of Dublin stores closing.

I'd imagine well hear of one or two down the country shutting up but that's the height of it.

Homebase went into examinership a few years back and closed 2 of 15 stores.

Chances are rents will be renegotiated and they'll move people around and let some go.

L1011

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Interesting this went into Examinership rather than Administration as most retailers with a UK base does. I assume it's purely the Irish arm, I'll have to do some digging on this one. I smell extra marks in Company law next week :pac:

Its purely the Irish arm. UK parent is profitable. Irish arm owes UK parent eight figures.

Cody montana

Yeah, what about the rest of the stores in Ireland?
Why ONLY Dublin, not all of us reside there!

irishmoss

If you mean why leave Dublin and close some countrywide the answer is profit, those that make the most will be kept

Cody montana wrote: »

Yeah, what about the rest of the stores in Ireland?
Why ONLY Dublin, not all of us reside there!

KingBrian2

Cody montana wrote: »

Yeah, what about the rest of the stores in Ireland?
Why ONLY Dublin, not all of us reside there!

As has already being mentioned business operates on the premise of making a profit. Concurrent losses = bankruptcy.

MarkAnthony

Cody montana wrote: »

Yeah, what about the rest of the stores in Ireland?
Why ONLY Dublin, not all of us reside there!

Most of us do I'm afraid. We also have all the money :pac:

newacc2015

Cody montana wrote: »

Yeah, what about the rest of the stores in Ireland?
Why ONLY Dublin, not all of us reside there!

I imagine a majority of sales are in Dublin, as it is the largest and wealthiest region in Ireland for any retail business. Over 40% of the population actually live in the GDA. Not everyone lives in Dublin, but nearly half of the country lives in it or right beside it

Their lease on Henry St must be worth a small fortune in comparison to a lease in somewhere like Tralee where I seriously doubt anyone else would take it over. Dublin has a strong economy which benefits from tourist. I seriously doubt any of their stores outside Dublin are in anyway close to levels of sales in their Dublin stores

hullaballoo

Examinership is just the protection of the Court that prevents the company being put into liquidation while it restructures due to the inevitable temporary insolvency this entails. It's a fixed period of time (70 days that can be extended to 100 days).

It is the least worrying of things that companies can go into.

Eugene Norman

irishmoss wrote: »

If you mean why leave Dublin and close some countrywide the answer is profit, those that make the most will be kept

Most of these answers don't understand Dublins rental costs.

I also would guess that there's a much lower spend per customer on Henry street than grafton street. Debenhams always seems quiet too.

Eugene Norman

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Most of us do I'm afraid. We also have all the money :pac:

Or our landlords do.

Atlantic Dawn

It's no loss if it goes, a basket case, they stocked mostly own brand sheite that nobody had an interest in when shopping in premium streets and centres. The booming stores of Arnotts and BT's bring in premium brands, Debenhams in Ireland was like trying to stock Homestead in Marbella. I'd love if ex Roches Stores bought it.

Greenmachine

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's no loss if it goes, a basket case, they stocked mostly own brand sheite that nobody had an interest in when shopping in premium streets and centres. The booming stores of Arnotts and BT's bring in premium brands, Debenhams in Ireland was like trying to stock Homestead in Marbella. I'd love if ex Roches Stores bought it.

You have to remember Roches got out of the game because the stores were loss making, they lost touch with what shopper wanted to buy apparently. Not what a 10 year retail absence for the high street will have though them. It was comfortable for them when they had a tenant to fill their prime stores.

newacc2015

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Most of these answers don't understand Dublins rental costs.

I also would guess that there's a much lower spend per customer on Henry street than grafton street. Debenhams always seems quiet too.

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-euro-spend-back-around-capital-1943376-Feb2015/

Actually it is the opposite. There is a higher spend on Henry St than Grafton. I imagine the lower spend on Grafton St is due to the amount of normal Spar type shops and all the fast food places

Debenhams is quiet as it doesn't know what Irish customers want. It has taken the M&S approach of bringing a UK store to Ireland and not making any cultural changes. The selection of casual shoes in Debehams is horrific. A lot of their departments have a poor selection of goods versus Arnotts.

dudara

Anecdotally, I tried recently to purchase something online recently with Debenhams with free delivery to store. The process was so horrifically bad that I abandoned it and bought instead from House of Fraser.

It's a pity that Debenhams is in this state, but it's a confused shop with brands that don't really appeal here.

GerardKeating

dudara wrote: »

Anecdotally, I tried recently to purchase something online recently with Debenhams with free delivery to store. The process was so horrifically bad that I abandoned it and bought instead from House of Fraser.

It's a pity that Debenhams is in this state, but it's a confused shop with brands that don't really appeal here.

We regularly purchase online with Debenhams, both "Click and Collect" and "Deliver to Store" and it is no worse/better/different from most other online stores.

what was the issue you had with the store?

dudara

Multiple points of failure if I remember correctly. The reset password process, wouldn't recognise my loyalty card, wouldn't accept a gift card. Compared to M&S and HoF which I use regularly, it was poor.

irishmoss

Surely the sterling exchange rate has had a big impact on the stores trading here over the last number of years?

L1011

irishmoss wrote: »

Surely the sterling exchange rate has had a big impact on the stores trading here over the last number of years?

It's drifting back due to brexit risks.

Irish shoppers have different tastes which affect clothes retail here

VincePP

I'm in retail over 30 years and this doesn't surprise me and high rents is the least of their problems as to be worthwhile they should be looking for a minimum net profit of circa €10m on a €160m turnover - so with 7m loss they need a 17m move in figures.

Reasons it didn't work.

1 - Debenhams simply replicated their uk model here. No changes to appeal to local shoppers.

2 - Under 5m people, yet 11 stores. Too many to make it "different" or a must go to store, hence they fight with all the other middle stores.

3 - Concessions. Too many and they all seem to have too small a space and all merchandise their areas to their look. This leads to cluttered untidy unattractive stores.

4 - price. Irish consumers are far more price savvy than uk. So they notice when a store is expensive. For years Debenhams used a 1.6 conversion from stg to eur. Irish people are no fools - local independent stores were cheaper.

5 - The outcome. Probably 5-6 stores to close. Keep Henry St., Limerick, Cork city centre, Galway. Then possibly keep Blackrock, Mahon point & Newbridge. Close the rest. TK maxx Pennys and Marks and Spencer could be replacements.

Considering the 200m+ potential debt if it went into liquidation, it will be best to get to a deal.

uck51js9zml2yt

My company went into examinership owing 64 million .
Went to supreme court to change laws on getting out of leases in examiner ship.
Closed 3 locations, did a deal with suppliers on debts, let go 300 staff.
Separated itself from the parent company during the process to stop creditors going after the parent.
They are still operating without me;)