EVs to get a lot louder in 2019

BoatMad

I see the EU legislation requires that they have a noise generation system no quieter then the equivalent EU decibel minimum for the class of vehicle

Oh well , there goes stealth mode !!! And the prospect of quieter towns

waraf

BoatMad wrote: »

I see the EU legislation requires that they have a noise generation system no quieter then the equivalent EU decibel minimum for the class of vehicle

Oh well , there goes stealth mode !!! And the prospect of quieter towns

Fair enough I suppose. I nearly got run over by an electric car a couple of years ago. I didn't look both ways as I stepped into its path as it silently moved towards me. Totally my fault of course but the same could easily happen to a visually impaired person.

I hope they let us pick our own theme tunes :-)

Ridiculous, noise is a form of pollution and they should do everything to eliminate it from our towns and cities. This is something electric cars offer.

Considering the amount of pedestrians who get hit and even killed each year by ICE cars you don't hear about legislation being introduced to make them louder or put big flashing lights on them like you see on some commercial vehicles.

There should be a separate noise maker that you can press like a horn but isn't as loud or offensive that you can activate.

EV's with loud noises is going to sound ridiculous considering all the different frequencies each manufacturer will have emitting from each EV.

It's sad that people who make up these stupid laws have no common sense.

Nothing better to do, "oh lets make up a new law today, that's what we get paid for"

BoatMad

waraf wrote: »

I hope they let us pick our own theme tunes :-)

a good V10 rumble

waraf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Considering the amount of pedestrians who get hit and even killed each year by ICE cars you don't hear about legislation being introduced to make them louder....

Of course you don't because they're not silent so noise is not a factor in these accidents.

When 90 percent of cars on the road are not silent people are surprised when a totally silent car creeps up on them. When all cars on the road are silent then there won't to a need to add a noise to silent running cars.

BoatMad

waraf wrote: »

When all cars on the road are silent then there won't to a need to add a noise to silent running cars.

which of course they now never will , because there will always be a noise

waraf

BoatMad wrote: »

which of course they now never will , because there will always be a noise

Lol

By this logic all bicycles should have a noise generation system fitted. After all they are even more silent than EVs, and by EU logic must be even more deadly.

waraf

waraf wrote: »

Of course you don't because they're not silent so noise is not a factor in these accidents.

When 90 percent of cars on the road are not silent people are surprised when a totally silent car creeps up on them. When all cars on the road are silent then there won't to a need to add a noise to silent running cars.

The point remains, noise does not stop pedestrians getting knocked down or killed from ICE cars.

So if you must make petrol cars noisy you should then also have big flashing lights to make pedestrians more aware of ICE cars, sounds silly doesn't it ? yeah so does making EV's noisy.

You won't get legislators trying to introduce flashing lights for ICE cars because they drive ICE cars and they wouldn't want something equally ridiculous on their cars.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

The point remains, noise does not stop pedestrians getting knocked down or killed from ICE cars.

So if you must make petrol cars noisy you should then also have big flashing lights to make pedestrians more aware of ICE cars, sounds silly doesn't it ? yeah so does making EV's noisy.

You won't get legislators trying to introduce flashing lights for ICE cars because they drive ICE cars and they wouldn't want something equally ridiculous on their cars.

Because of the predomaince of ICE in cars for decades , I think you'll agree that pedestrians use sound as one of the sensory inputs to avoid being knocked down. Thats easily demonstrated in the leaf

The fact that noise doesnt stop pedestrians being knocked down, does not mean that lack of noise would stop it either.

The correct logic is that the noise stops MORE of them from being knocked down


its not " silly" making EVs make noise , its entirely understandable if unfortunate

waraf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The point remains, noise does not stop pedestrians getting knocked down or killed from ICE cars.

You're correct in that noise doesn't eliminate accidents but silence certainly will increase accidents.
As i mentioned above I almost got hit by a silent running vehicle and I have perfect sight and hearing so this piece of legislation makes sense to me.
Tesla already do this to their cars in some markets. The cars emit a noise up to 30mph to warn pedestrians of their approach.

waraf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

By this logic all bicycles should have a noise generation system fitted. After all they are even more silent than EVs, and by EU logic must be even more deadly.

We're not transitioning from noisy bicycles to silent bicycles so it's not analogous

pwurple

Show Me The Data.

Is there a huge upsurge in accidents involving EV's? And the majority of these have been attributed to the missing engine? If so, let's dig through it, because my EV is not silent. It has a whirr, even with the noisemaker turned off, and makes road noise. It's rubber contacts the road same as anything else.

Because all I hear is guesswork, with no data.

BoatMad

pwurple wrote: »

Because all I hear is guesswork, with no data.

guesswork is the basis for most EU legislation

waraf

pwurple wrote: »

Show Me The Data.

Valid point. I (possibly naively) hope that this has come as a result of an increase in accidents rather than lobbying from the automotive/oil industry.
Either way I'm still in favour of the change as I sincerely believe that it will help to reduce the number of accidents in heavily pedestrianised areas.

DivingDuck

Deleted User wrote: »

By this logic all bicycles should have a noise generation system fitted. After all they are even more silent than EVs, and by EU logic must be even more deadly.

...Like a bell?

I think this is great idea. They don't have to be roaring monsters, but I have nearly been run over by an EV twice in the last few years. The first incident was entirely my fault, so I'm more careful now, but previous to that, I had given zero thought to the possibility that a "silent" car is something I should watch out for. The second time was a completely blind corner with no footpath, and sound was really the only way to judge whether a car was approaching. I was only at fault by virtue of being there: in both cases the driver was entirely blameless... But that wouldn't have made me less dead, or them less distraught had things ended badly.

As a general rule, I'm a fairly careful pedestrian, so I can only imagine the havoc that would come from an abundance of EVs in the presence of the very careless pedestrians we see on the roads every day.

BoatMad

All bikes are legally required to have a reflector on the back and a working bell – two things that are often overlooked.

seamus

waraf wrote: »

We're not transitioning from noisy bicycles to silent bicycles so it's not analogous

And nobody has died in this country in the last 30 years after being hit by a bicycle.

pwurple wrote: »

Show Me The Data.

Is there a huge upsurge in accidents involving EV's?

You know what, I'd rather not sit back and wait for the data here. This is one of those rare things where legislators are having the foresight to introduce safety standards before they become a potential problem.

It was years before seat belts became legal requirements. And a whole pile of other safety standards which we now look as on essential. We look aghast at the deathtraps that our parents and grandparents drove around in, oblivious to the dangers that we now look on as obvious.

Why should we wait twenty years until we look back and think, "Yeah, having cars make noise seems like such an obvious safety feature, incredible to think we spent so long without it".

The worst outcome of this legislation is that we have cars that make an audible but not obnoxious level of noise as they drive around, and it makes no odds to safety stats.

Without the legislation, the worst outcome is that we see a massive spike in pedestrian deaths.

It's a no-brainer to me.

waraf

BoatMad wrote: »

All bikes are legally required to have a reflector on the back and a working bell – two things that are often overlooked.

I know it's not quite in line with the topic of this thread but seeing as you mention leagality with repect to bicylces I thought I'd share a small anecdote with you...

A friend of mine always cycles into the city centre whenever he's going on the batter and then cycles home at closing time (mainly cause he's too cheap to pay for taxis). Anyway, one winters evening lat year he left one of those trendy places after consuming 12 bottles of craft beer and jumped on the bike. (I say jumped but he admitted later that he was "absolutely bladdered" so "jumped" might be overstating it a little).
Cycling up the canal he happened upon a garda checkpoint where he was stopped and asked for his particulars and where he was headed etc. The local friendly garda told him to hold on, went back to his car and returned with a high viz jacket. Told my mate to throw it on and continue on his way.
Make of that what you will...

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

The fact that noise doesnt stop pedestrians being knocked down, does not mean that lack of noise would stop it either.

The correct logic is that the noise stops MORE of them from being knocked down


its not " silly" making EVs make noise , its entirely understandable if unfortunate

No because the pedestrians being knocked down are those that are spaced out and don't look where they're going so a noisy ICE or EV won't change this.

I have plenty of instances where pedestrians do not hear me coming and are walking in the middle of the street , this is why I have a horn so I can blip it and that's all it takes to make them use the footpath they should be using in the first place.

An optional noise maker that can be used in addition to the horn that makes a far less obnoxious noise is what's needed so it's not activated 100% of the time causing what's going to be a nightmare of different electric noises generated from hundreds or thousands of electric cars.

heliguyheliguy

BoatMad wrote: »

I see the EU legislation requires that they have a noise generation system no quieter then the equivalent EU decibel minimum for the class of vehicle

Oh well , there goes stealth mode !!! And the prospect of quieter towns

I can't find the regulation anywhere could you post a link to it please.

First Up

seamus wrote:

And nobody has died in this country in the last 30 years after being hit by a bicycle.

I recall someone was killed by a bike courier going the wrong way up a one way street. It was somewhere near Baggot St and a lot less than 30 years ago.

zilog_jones

I'd be OK with this as long as it's at slow speeds e.g. under 30 km/h. I think there's enough road noise at anything higher than that. I can use my Prius PHEV in EV mode for most of my city driving and find I have to be extra careful, especially in car parks when there are small children around. In the US (optional extra in Japan) it does actually emit some sort of noise when going under 25 km/h.

I find it baffling that it beeps at me inside the cabin when reversing, but not outside...

OSI

OSI wrote: »

Funny, I don't recall any pedestrians walking out on me recently. Wonder is it the big noisy engine?

No doubt it is the big noisy engine, this is why I suggested a 2nd device separate from the horn that will alert pedestrians without being as loud as the horn but activated only when needed.

Each manufacturer will emit a different frequency for this loud warning system and I guarantee, it won't sound pleasant with hundreds of these in one location.

davidgdlt

Deleted User wrote: »

No doubt it is the big noisy engine, this is why I suggested a 2nd device separate from the horn that will alert pedestrians without being as loud as the horn but activated only when needed.

Each manufacturer will emit a different frequency for this loud warning system and I guarantee, it won't sound pleasant with hundreds of these in one location.

I want mine to be a coughing noise that I can make increasingly loud and insistent if it gets ignored.

I also think EVs should have mechanical hats attached to their roofs to 'thank' pedestrians that react positively to the coughing. I'll send a letter to Brussels right now.

pwurple

DivingDuck wrote: »

...Like a bell?

Or a horn?

I have been driving an EV for a while now, just over 20,000km, the vast majority in urban areas and never once had any kind of incident with someone not hearing me. They are far more noisy than bicycles.

I'm all for public safety, but just think this is unfounded.

One of the fantastic things about EVs is the lack of chugchugchug. I love the reduced noise, because I live in a city. I dream of the day when our cities are just as busy and vibrant, but less fumes and background din.

stesaurus

Fairly high thread on speakev recently about this. Quite a few have said they've come up with their own solutions as it is causing issues with people not having a clue a car is behind them.
Consensus seemed to be to buy a small bicycle bell!