55 Students suspended in Moate Community School

Cool_CM

TriangularGuy wrote: »

Yes true but in the same way the principle has the right to call it off, don't the student have the right to protest that decision despite it having no affect. "Cool_CM" it has become clear from protests throughout our democracy Ireland that if one man says no that doesnt mean no. Enda Kenny

Ah Jesus...

TriangularGuy

I haven't taken the time to describe the circumstances but the majority of teachers, parents and students have taken the view that it was a very harsh resolution from the principle.

Jayop

EagererBeaver wrote: »

No, they don't. As somebody helpfully pointed out, school isn't a democracy.

As for attempting to compare this incident with the lockout...

School isn't a democracy, but as hard as this may be to believe this is still a free country.

I'm delighted these 17/18 year old kids aren't little mindless drones.

TriangularGuy

Exactly, the way the education system encourages student not to think but to learn off. I think its a life lesson for these students whatever that may be.

Angron

Once more TriangularGuy, you cannot make that claim because "it's well known". We all do not know that, and it cannot be taken at your word. Boards would be held responsible, not you for what could be potentially libellous statements.

Furthermore, no more comments along the lines of "pussy ass parents". They don't add anything to a discussion.

DK man

If these pupils are sons and daughters of socialist workers party members they'll probably have a claim in for grinds and soccer tickets against the school

Jayop

DK man wrote: »

If these pupils are sons and daughters of socialist workers party members they'll probably have a claim in for grinds and soccer tickets against the school

And if they have parents that are FG/FF party members they'll not have to worry about the results because they'll have a nice handy job lined up for them. :rolleyes:

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

So we should discourage independent thought and principles and try everything to have schools produce obedient little drones.

I know that's exactly what a certain section of our society would like but it's not what I like.


These kids had something taken from them, probably with no justification and no real reason. Extra-circular activities, especially sport are a great pressure release for kids coming up to their leaving and I would support their right to protest. If the teacher's only justification for this was to have them concentrate on the exams then suspend them is a farcical punishment.

Debate and questioning are always welcome from our young people.
However, we are not getting the full story here. Is it possible that there was an Insurance or Health & Safety issue?
Being denied something and throwing a strop doesn't bode well for their future. Imagine taking the law into ones own hands in the workplace?
I hope they learn from this and move on to a bright, mature future.

TriangularGuy

Deleted User wrote: »

Debate and questioning are always welcome from our young people.
However, we are not getting the full story here. Is it possible that there was an Insurance or Health & Safety issue?
Being denied something and throwing a strop doesn't bode well for their future. Imagine taking the law into ones own hands in the workplace?
I hope they learn from this and move on to a bright, mature future.

Yes, sorry but I only have a half story I heard from my friend whos brother attends the school. I will see if I can find more information on the matter for you.

Jayop

Deleted User wrote: »

Debate and questioning are always welcome from our young people.
However, we are not getting the full story here. Is it possible that there was an Insurance or Health & Safety issue?
Being denied something and throwing a strop doesn't bode well for their future. Imagine taking the law into ones own hands in the workplace?
I hope they learn from this and move on to a bright, mature future.

See you're assuming they threw a strop and acted like babies. Perhaps they had a reasoned and thought out discussion among themselves as young adults. Perhaps they decided after careful consideration that they didn't want to lose something that they had been looking forward to all year. Perhaps these are the kind of kids that our school system should be trying to produce rather than quashing any sign of resistance in them and having them be nothing more than worker bees for the system.

I can only make some assumptions here but they seem reasonable to me to counter your H&S and Insurance worries.

1) If they were the reasons then surely the head teacher would have said that and not what they did say which was the kids should focus on exams.
2) If the comp was run during school time in their own field then there would be insurance in place the same way there is for all other PE/Sport activities.

Jayop

Deleted User wrote: »

Debate and questioning are always welcome from our young people.
However, we are not getting the full story here. Is it possible that there was an Insurance or Health & Safety issue?
Being denied something and throwing a strop doesn't bode well for their future. Imagine taking the law into ones own hands in the workplace?
I hope they learn from this and move on to a bright, mature future.

You mean like collective bargaining? Yeah imagine the horrors of that and where we'd be now if that was to have been something that had happened.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

You mean like collective bargaining? Yeah imagine the horrors of that and where we'd be now if that was to have been something that had happened.

So collective bargaining is the same as taking the Law into ones own hands?

# OP. You might let us have the whole story some time. The real one, not a second hand version.

Jayop

Deleted User wrote: »

So collective bargaining is the same as taking the Law into ones own hands?

What exactly do you mean by that?

Surely that's exactly what it means if you are put in a situation where strike/protest is the last option for you.

Firstly, why you're bringing the law into it when it's a matter of school rules and not the law. Are the Tesco workers taking "the law" into their own hands on Monday when they're striking because they are having something they have (existing contracts) taken off them for pretty rubbish reasons?

mirrorwall14

This thread is honestly seriously lacking in information, here's just a few questions:

1. Who organised this tournament in the past? Staff or students? If it is a staff member then it would be voluntary coordination on their part and they could have decided to step down. Or even have left the school

2. Is there a background here?
Has there been issues with the year group? was this tournament cancelled due to behaviour issues? Is the school out of supervision hours? Have there been accidents in the past at the event?


Extra curricular activities in Ireland are generally organised completely on the goodwill of staff (unless I'm a private school) so to be honest this feels like complete entitlement on the students part to 'demand' something like this.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by that?

Surely that's exactly what it means if you are put in a situation where strike/protest is the last option for you.

Firstly, why you're bringing the law into it when it's a matter of school rules and not the law. Are the Tesco workers taking "the law" into their own hands on Monday when they're striking because they are having something they have (existing contracts) taken off them for pretty rubbish reasons?

I don't recall Tesco workers throwing a strop when it was first mooted that their work contracts were to be altered? They entered negotiations and the strike is the next step.

VincePP

TriangularGuy wrote: »

Yes, sorry but I only have a half story I heard from my friend whos brother attends the school. I will see if I can find more information on the matter for you.

Oh, all your posts are based on a friend of a friend of a friend said.
And even at that only half the story.

Christ!

Dave0301

TriangularGuy wrote: »

Yes, sorry but I only have a half story I heard from my friend whos brother attends the school. I will see if I can find more information on the matter for you.

For someone that only has half a story you have been pretty quick to cast judgement on the principal.

endacl

TriangularGuy wrote: »

Ok so basically there had been a soccer tournament at the end of each school year going back at least 14 years when I was in 6th year. Their principle in school called off the tournament this year and students sat down on the courts for 3 classes.

That's not basically. That's concisely. Or succinctly. Briefly, even. If you're into brevity. Which I'm not. Obviously.

LionelNashe

TriangularGuy wrote: »

Ok so basically there had been a soccer tournament at the end of each school year going back at least 14 years when I was in 6th year. Their principle in school called off the tournament this year and students sat down on the courts for 3 classes.

I'd have some respect for them if they had used the 3 hours to have a soccer tournament as opposed to having a sit-down.

Jayop

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't recall Tesco workers throwing a strop when it was first mooted that their work contracts were to be altered? They entered negotiations and the strike is the next step.

You see everyone of the assumptions and speculations you have made have been pro-authority. You speculated that it could be insurance, could be H&S. You assume the students didn't attempt to negotiate before taking action.

Everything about your postings from your justifications for one sides actions to your language (strop) and quickness to judge the other sides tells me all I need to know.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

You see everyone of the assumptions and speculations you have made have been pro-authority. You speculated that it could be insurance, could be H&S. You assume the students didn't attempt to negotiate before taking action.

Everything about your postings from your justifications for one sides actions to your language (strop) and quickness to judge the other sides tells me all I need to know.

Grand. I'm only making assumptions on second hand stories same as the OP. Being able to accept authority is necessary to survive in the school or workplace.

byhookorbycrook

Seems the students in the school have a bit of a history of protest
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/dolan-faces-new-ban-as-school-team-walks-off-26405238.html

byhookorbycrook

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Seems the students in the school have a bit of a history of protest
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/dolan-faces-new-ban-as-school-team-walks-off-26405238.html

You mean they have a problem with Rules and Authority.

Fiery mutant

A bit more information is needed. Were the students going to stay out until their demands were met? Or was it just going to be 3 classes so their point could be made?

If it was the first, then the principle done right in suspending them. They can make their point without going overboard. When they get out in the big bad world, they will start to understand this.

Maybe they could use this time off to learn that stomping your feet and making demands is not the way the real world works.

Jayop

Deleted User wrote: »

Grand. I'm only making assumptions on second hand stories same as the OP. Being able to accept authority is necessary to survive in the school or workplace.

You're making assumptions, but every assumption you make is so one sided it's quite laughable.

Being able to respect authority is not the same as "accept"ing it. If people see something as being fundamentally wrong with how they are being treated by authority then they are duty bound to themselves and those who follow them to demand change.

Thank god those early unions who earned us the 5 day week and all the other things we now take for granted didn't have your subservient view of how to behave.

wokingvoter

TriangularGuy wrote: »

I personality don't care to much for soccer but I do know protesting is Irish, look at the 1913 lockout etc. The right to Protest is in our constitution, and Many of the students involved had never been in trouble in the school before, many had there awards stripped from them the awards night that evening. What I am saying is isn't that a bit harsh of a punishment for having different views than the principle.

You seem to be confusing a school for mainly minor children with a democracy OP.
It's not.
I'm sure the school forbids running in the halls.
Are you saying that if the pupils decide that running in the halls would get them to where they want to go faster that the Principal should accede to their wishes?
Do you have a job?
If the boss says "we close for lunch at 1pm till 2" and some staff wish to go from 12.30 to 1.30 then does the boss have to agree?

Jayop

Fiery mutant wrote: »

A bit more information is needed. Were the students going to stay out until their demands were met? Or was it just going to be 3 classes so their point could be made?

If it was the first, then the principle done right in suspending them. They can make their point without going overboard. When they get out in the big bad world, they will start to understand this.

Maybe they could use this time off to learn that stomping your feet and making demands is not the way the real world works.

Stomping their feet, throwing a strop....

Christ the language being used by some of you is probably exactly how the Inner Party see the Proles.

Jayop

wokingvoter wrote: »

You seem to be confusing a school for mainly minor children with a democracy OP.
It's not.
I'm sure the school forbids running in the halls.
Are you saying that if the pupils decide that running in the halls would get them to where they want to go faster that the Principal should accede to their wishes?
Do you have a job?
If the boss says "we close for lunch at 1pm till 2" and some staff wish to go from 12.30 to 1.30 then does the boss have to agree?

See neither of those examples have any relevancy.

the first one isn't even worth commenting on and in the second example, a more accurate one would be if the boss said "we've always had lunch between 1-2, now we're not having lunch at all".

If that happened in your job would just smile and nod? The students aren't looking for something new, they're looking for something not to be taken from them.

Phoebas

TriangularGuy wrote: »

I haven't taken the time to describe the circumstances but the majority of teachers, parents and students have taken the view that it was a very harsh resolution from the principle.

Was there a poll taken of the staff, parents and students or this just the position you think they should/would take?

handlemaster

99% of the students I would guess just followed like sheep.... sheep get eaten in the real world