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55 Students suspended in Moate Community School

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13567…11

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    handlemaster wrote: »
    99% of the students I would guess just followed like sheep.... sheep get eaten in the real world

    Chops. Mint sauce. Roast spuds. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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    #63
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    handlemaster wrote: »
    99% of the students I would guess just followed like sheep.... sheep get eaten in the real world

    So protesting against something you feel is wrong = behaving like a sheep??

    Surely had they just accepted the decision and said nothing it would have been more sheep like.


    Again, more wonderful language from our more authoritarian posters.


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    #64
    wokingvoter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭wokingvoter


    Jayop wrote: »
    See neither of those examples have any relevancy.

    the first one isn't even worth commenting on and in the second example, a more accurate one would be if the boss said "we've always had lunch between 1-2, now we're not having lunch at all".

    If that happened in your job would just smile and nod? The students aren't looking for something new, they're looking for something not to be taken from them.

    Ok your right. Bad analogies. I'm tired,long hot day.
    But being in school as a minor cannot be compared to an employment scenario
    In employment the employee enters into a legal contract with the employer.
    "Subject to terms and conditions I will undertake tasks you set me for 39 hours each week"
    The terms and conditions are decided by each party. Bargaining if you like.
    What are the pupils bargaining tools in the school scenario?
    Pupils before their 16th birthday are obliged by law to attend, no choice, their parents can and are fined and imprisoned if they don't , so they've nothing to bring to the negotiating table.
    Older pupils can leave if they don't like the rules, it's not a democracy.
    What do you think their bargaining tools are?


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    #65
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    wokingvoter wrote: »
    Ok your right. Bad analogies. I'm tired,long hot day.
    But being in school as a minor cannot be compared to an employment scenario
    In employment the employee enters into a legal contract with the employer.
    "Subject to terms and conditions I will undertake tasks you set me for 39 hours each week"
    The terms and conditions are decided by each party. Bargaining if you like.
    What are the pupils bargaining tools in the school scenario?
    Pupils before their 16th birthday are obliged by law to attend, no choice, their parents can and are fined and imprisoned if they don't , so they've nothing to bring to the negotiating table.
    Older pupils can leave if they don't like the rules, it's not a democracy.
    What do you think their bargaining tools are?

    I wasn't the one who compared this to an employment situation. You and lots of others did so and I'm including the "wait till the real world hits them" posts.

    But you ask, what tools do they have? Very limited tools really so that's probably why they chose this one to make their point and to get their side of the story across. Given we've a 5 page thread here and it's bound to be covered by the national press soon I'd say they did a good job. From the information we have it seems the head teacher over reacted on 2 occasion and is probably going to have to make an embarrassing climbdown.

    As for other forms of protest, they could have interrupted classes, they could have egged the school, they could have caused pandemonium in there. They didn't do any of that though, they had a peaceful quiet sit down protest.

    As for now, I guess they could picket the school, they could appeal to their other classmates to join them in a boycott, they could appeal to the local and national press to try to get pressure on the school.

    Quite a few options really.


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    #66
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Jayop wrote: »
    I wasn't the one who compared this to an employment situation. You and lots of others did so and I'm including the "wait till the real world hits them" posts.

    But you ask, what tools do they have? Very limited tools really so that's probably why they chose this one to make their point and to get their side of the story across. Given we've a 5 page thread here and it's bound to be covered by the national press soon I'd say they did a good job. From the information we have it seems the head teacher over reacted on 2 occasion and is probably going to have to make an embarrassing climbdown.

    As for other forms of protest, they could have interrupted classes, they could have egged the school, they could have caused pandemonium in there. They didn't do any of that though, they had a peaceful quiet sit down protest.

    As for now, I guess they could picket the school, they could appeal to their other classmates to join them in a boycott, they could appeal to the local and national press to try to get pressure on the school.

    Quite a few options really.
    Exams are starting in a few weeks. The idea that they would try to escalate this protest over some sporting event is just crazy talk.

    If they have any sense, they'll take their punishment and get their heads back into their books asap.


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    #67
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Exams are starting in a few weeks. The idea that they would try to escalate this protest over some sporting event is just crazy talk.

    If they have any sense, they'll take their punishment and get their heads back into their books asap.

    Take their punishment of exclusion from school a few weeks before their exams in order to help them with their exams. Yep that makes perfect sense.

    Surely it would be better for the kids and students if they were to campaign to get the punishment reversed and get back into school ASAP.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Exams are starting in a few weeks. The idea that they would try to escalate this protest over some sporting event is just crazy talk.

    If they have any sense, they'll take their punishment and get their heads back into their books asap.

    Shur, they're only kids. A lot of growing up to do.


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    #69
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Jayop wrote: »
    Take their punishment of exclusion from school a few weeks before their exams in order to help them with their exams. Yep that makes perfect sense.
    It was a just a suspension, they'll be back when their time is served.
    Jayop wrote: »
    Surely it would be better for the kids and students if they were to campaign to get the punishment reversed and get back into school ASAP.
    No. It wouldn't.
    A campaign would only disrupt the rest of the students who have important exams coming up.

    It must be tough enough to keep discipline in a large school of 1250 students. The principal would be mad to reverse his decision because of a student campaign.


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    #70
    enzo roco
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭enzo roco


    handlemaster wrote: »
    99% of the students I would guess just followed like sheep.... sheep get eaten in the real world

    Enough of this real world rubbish...

    Working full time is much easier than being in secondary school.
    It is horrible, ya cant even have a p1ss without asking. I hated school with a passion.
    The "real world" is ten times easier and better.


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    #71
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,148 ✭✭✭screamer


    What a load of b@lls literally over football. Good to see students know where their priorities lie.
    Don't blame the principle, he/ she was right to take no sh1t from them.


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    #72
    Cool_CM
    Registered Users Posts: 4,982 ✭✭✭Cool_CM


    Jayop wrote: »
    So protesting against something you feel is wrong = behaving like a sheep??

    Surely had they just accepted the decision and said nothing it would have been more sheep like.


    Again, more wonderful language from our more authoritarian posters.

    Nope, protesting against something that you feel is wrong isn't = to behaving like a sheep.

    I'd imagine that some of the 'authoritarian posters' that you are referring to have taken issue with the fact that the way that this event is being discussed, you'd swear that these guys had their human rights violated on a level that warranted UN intervention. On top of that, the OP's account of the event isn't exactly heavy on facts and they seem more interested in slandering a school principal who isn't here to defend themself and, IMO after 3 classes, took suitable action.


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    #73
    granturismo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,918 ✭✭✭granturismo


    TriangularGuy wrote: »
    ... The right to Protest is in our constitution, ....

    Where does it state that in our constitution?


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    #74
    h2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭h2005


    Jayop wrote: »
    Take their punishment of exclusion from school a few weeks before their exams in order to help them with their exams. Yep that makes perfect sense.

    Surely it would be better for the kids and students if they were to campaign to get the punishment reversed and get back into school ASAP.

    The optimal use of the time spent protesting would be studying for their leaving cert.


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    #75
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Phoebas wrote: »
    It was a just a suspension, they'll be back when their time is served.


    No. It wouldn't.
    A campaign would only disrupt the rest of the students who have important exams coming up.

    It must be tough enough to keep discipline in a large school of 1250 students. The principal would be mad to reverse his decision because of a student campaign.

    How would them campaigning though the media or with their parents disrupt the other students?

    Like I said there's various other ways they can escalate this (only because I was asked) but being serious they're nto going to picket the school or upset other students. They should however do everything in their power to get the suspension overturned.

    Amazing how you accept them being suspended as a fair punishment when the reason given for the football being cancelled was because it was keeping them out of class.
    Cool_CM wrote: »
    Nope, protesting against something that you feel is wrong isn't = to behaving like a sheep.

    I'd imagine that some of the 'authoritarian posters' that you are referring to have taken issue with the fact that the way that this event is being discussed, you'd swear that these guys had their human rights violated on a level that warranted UN intervention. On top of that, the OP's account of the event isn't exactly heavy on facts and they seem more interested in slandering a school principal who isn't here to defend themself and, IMO after 3 classes, took suitable action.

    Please please show me one post that is even remotely like that.

    More waffle.


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    #76
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    h2005 wrote: »
    The optimal use of the time spent protesting would be studying for their leaving cert.

    24/7 eh?


    Yeah that's healthy. :rolleyes:


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    #77
    Hibrasil
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭Hibrasil


    TriangularGuy wrote: »
    What I am saying is isn't that a bit harsh of a punishment for having different views than the principle.

    Different views? Assuming that collectively they were of the one mind - they then would have a "different view" to the PRINCIPAL. "Than" is not a word I would use in the context of their differences.


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    #78
    h2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭h2005


    Jayop wrote: »
    24/7 eh?


    Yeah that's healthy. :rolleyes:

    Who mentioned 24/7? :rolleyes:


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    #79
    Benevolent Misanthrope
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 284 ✭✭Benevolent Misanthrope


    h2005 wrote: »
    Who mentioned 24/7? :rolleyes:
    Don't encourage him. If he didn't have strawmen, he'd have nobody to argue with at all.


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    #80
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    h2005 wrote: »
    Who mentioned 24/7? :rolleyes:

    Considering the whole thing has been caused by the principle banning a football game that's been going on for 14 years because it will interfere with their studies and you seem to think that them putting any other time into trying to get back into school is a waste of their time I presume some of you must do. :rolleyes:
    Benevolent Misanthrope wrote: »
    Don't encourage him. If he didn't have strawmen, he'd have nobody to argue with at all.

    I think you need to look up what a strawman actually is. Nowhere in this thread have I used them.


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    #81
    wokingvoter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭wokingvoter


    Jayop wrote: »
    I wasn't the one who compared this to an employment situation. You and lots of others did so and I'm including the "wait till the real world hits them" posts.

    But you ask, what tools do they have? Very limited tools really so that's probably why they chose this one to make their point and to get their side of the story across. Given we've a 5 page thread here and it's bound to be covered by the national press soon I'd say they did a good job. From the information we have it seems the head teacher over reacted on 2 occasion and is probably going to have to make an embarrassing climbdown.

    As for other forms of protest, they could have interrupted classes, they could have egged the school, they could have caused pandemonium in there. They didn't do any of that though, they had a peaceful quiet sit down protest.

    As for now, I guess they could picket the school, they could appeal to their other classmates to join them in a boycott, they could appeal to the local and national press to try to get pressure on the school.

    Quite a few options really.

    They've caused pandemonium by not being in class when they were supposed to.
    And as a result they've been suspended, quite rightly imo.
    It's their loss, not the Principal's. He's passed his LC already
    The LC pupils who ARE interested in a 3rd level education can finish the term without this irrelevant distracting nonsense going on in the background.
    Maybe if they make s collective apology to the school and in particular their fellow LCs the suspension will be lifted and they can make the best of the last couple of weeks.
    I don't see how the Principal is potentially having to make an embarrassing climb down?


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    #82
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    wokingvoter wrote: »
    They've caused pandemonium by not being in class when they were supposed to.
    And as a result they've been suspended, quite rightly imo.
    It's their loss, not the Principal's. He's passed his LC already
    The LC pupils who ARE interested in a 3rd level education can finish the term without this irrelevant distracting nonsense going on in the background.
    Maybe if they make s collective apology to the school and in particular their fellow LCs the suspension will be lifted and they can make the best of the last couple of weeks.
    I don't see how the Principal is potentially having to make an embarrassing climb down?

    pandemonium
    [pan-duh-moh-nee-uh m]
    Spell Syllables
    Synonyms Examples Word Origin
    See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
    noun
    1.
    wild uproar or unrestrained disorder; tumult or chaos.
    2.
    a place or scene of riotous uproar or utter chaos.
    3.
    (often initial capital letter) the abode of all the demons.
    4.
    hell.

    Which part of sitting quietly for 3 hours is pandemonium? Amazing the leaps some of you will make.


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    #83
    Hibrasil
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭Hibrasil


    Jayop wrote: »
    Considering the whole thing has been caused by the principle ......

    The head of a school is a PRINCIPAL.......holding a specific point of view is a PRINCIPLE.....


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    #84
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Hibrasil wrote: »
    The head of a school is a PRINCIPAL.......holding a specific point of view is a PRINCIPLE.....

    Correcting someone on their grammar or a typo is probably the lowest form or argument online. Absolutely pathetic.

    Nice to see you got a like on your post though. That must make a pleasant change.


    edit: And for a mod to like a post like that is just as pathetic.


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    #85
    wokingvoter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭wokingvoter


    Jayop wrote: »
    pandemonium
    [pan-duh-moh-nee-uh m]
    Spell Syllables
    Synonyms Examples Word Origin
    See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
    noun
    1.
    wild uproar or unrestrained disorder; tumult or chaos.
    2.
    a place or scene of riotous uproar or utter chaos.
    3.
    (often initial capital letter) the abode of all the demons.
    4.
    hell.

    Which part of sitting quietly for 3 hours is pandemonium? Amazing the leaps some of you will make.
    Your right. Pandemonium is not the correct term. Sorry.
    I've got an LC student here.
    Having a big exam in a couple of weeks and finding yourself sitting in a classroom hoping that the other students will come soon so that the teacher can start teaching you something is ****ty and stressful and annoying and potentially may damage your chances of doing well in the exam, but no, it's not pandemonium. It's crap.


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    #86
    wokingvoter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭wokingvoter


    Jayop wrote: »
    Correcting someone on their grammar or a typo is probably the lowest form or argument online. Absolutely pathetic.

    Nice to see you got a like on your post though. That must make a pleasant change.


    edit: And for a mod to like a post like that is just as pathetic.

    It's ironic though


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    #87
    Benevolent Misanthrope
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 284 ✭✭Benevolent Misanthrope


    Jayop wrote: »
    Correcting someone on their grammar or a typo is probably the lowest form or argument online. .
    That would be totally different from correcting someone on the strict definition of a word, I guess?

    On an unrelated point, how does one define 'hypocrite'?


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    #88
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    wokingvoter wrote: »
    Your right. Pandemonium is not the correct term. Sorry.
    I've got an LC student here.
    Having a big exam in a couple of weeks and finding yourself sitting in a classroom hoping that the other students will come soon so that the teacher can start teaching you something is ****ty and stressful and annoying and potentially may damage your chances of doing well in the exam, but no, it's not pandemonium. It's crap.

    Crap that could have been avoided.

    Honestly, I don't see why it was a distraction to the other students. Surely the teachers will have just carried on with the class as they would have had a large number of the students had been at some other event.

    I have a JC student next year and while I appreciate I'd like as little as possible to upset her preparation, I'd also want her personally to feel that she should stand up for what she feels is right with what she feels is appropriate action.

    There really wasn't a lot of other avenues of protest available to these kids and as I mentioned already, the one they choose was probably the one that would cause the least trouble for anyone not directly involved.


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    #89
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Benevolent Misanthrope wrote: »
    That would be totally different from correcting someone on the strict definition of a word, I guess?

    On an unrelated point, how does one define 'hypocrite'?

    Strict definition???

    Christ almighty that's absolute nonsense. They said the students caused pandemonium. That's not a small error, that's a complete millions miles away from what happened.


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    #90
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    wokingvoter wrote: »
    It's ironic though

    Don't make me post the definition of ironic for you too. ;)


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    #91
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Principal, it's ****ing principal! The principal suspended the students who mitched class on principle.


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