55 Students suspended in Moate Community School

evolving_doors

Kangaroo189 wrote: »

Original poster has not posted the whole truth. I have family members who go to that school. Some of the people involved allegedly had a Snapchat account that posted stories targeted at individuals in the school, they also mitched many other classes and protested outside the window where students were sitting their art practical. There were also many other factors which contributed to their punishments.

If that's true then the students would get zero sympathy.

Whatever about the snapchat (that'll take a fair bit of untangling to get to the heart of it), disrupting students sitting the LC Art Practical is fairly low. We sectioned off the area where the practicals were taking place and the teachers and kids were warned every day to have due consideration (signs up all over the place).

Interfering with their own learning is one thing, but preventing others from succeeding is fairly low...



Although, in saying all that I remember the resentment that was caused when teachers went on strike 200/2001... might be on the cards again too this coming September!

I'm conflicted.

wokingvoter

Jayop wrote: »

She would be.

Secondary schools aren't a prison and if they sneaked out the door during the day I know who I'd blame.

I'd like to be made aware of the fact that she isn't there ASAP so I can look for her myself, but it's not the schools job to go looking for them, nor I would imagine have they got the authority to go up town and force them to go back. They can't very well force a child to get into a car against their will.

But you've said that no teacher should have to enquire about the whereabouts of any particular student to the detriment of the other pupils so I don't know how you would expect them to make you aware "asap " that she had absconded.
In your world teenagers are free to drift in and out of school as they please.
If this chaos is annoying to pupils who want to learn in a calm organised environment, well that's just tough.
It's far more important that your daughter can exercise her free will to come and go as she pleases.
I'd prefer the prison atmosphere myself.

riffmongous

wokingvoter wrote: »

Well in my daughters school the roll is called in first class. If a girl is in at 9.05am she is expected to be still there at 3pm unless she had a note from a parent. If there is an unexplained absence the teacher goes to look for the missing pupil. The girl is summoned to the office over the tannoy. The school is responsible for the pupils while they're in.
If your JC child disappears from school during the day and gets into trouble down town who do you blame? Be honest?

The teacher? And what happens to the rest of the class while the teacher is out? What a waste of classtime! In my old school the vice-principal would go around after every break to collect the role call from each class and then he would go search if someone was missing, or if he had a class the Principal would go

4ensic15

When I went to school, teachers were hypocrites. I wouldn't think anything has changed. If those pupils had been properly educated they would automatically have more on their mind before the exams. It is obvious that the school failed to motivate them and now wants to blame this for the poor results they will get in the exams.

endacl

Jayop wrote: »

Don't make me post the definition of ironic for you too.

Some people still work off the Alanis Morrissette definition.

Dave0301

4ensic15 wrote: »

When I went to school, teachers were hypocrites. I wouldn't think anything has changed. If those pupils had been properly educated they would automatically have more on their mind before the exams. It is obvious that the school failed to motivate them and now wants to blame this for the poor results they will get in the exams.

What an insightful opinion on this.

Please do tell me more while I get you some salt for that chip on your shoulder regarding teachers.

4ensic15

Dave0301 wrote: »

What an insightful opinion on this.

Please do tell me more while I get you some salt for that chip on your shoulder regarding teachers.

If you farted in a class the teacher would beat you to a pulp but teachers themselves farted and carried on as if nothing had happened. This despite the fact that their farts were far worse.

Cool_CM

Jayop wrote: »

:pac:

So you couldn't find one single post where someone had caused you to say "you'd swear that these guys had their human rights violated on a level that warranted UN intervention." so you pulled those few posts in to try to make a point.

What a joke.

The first one was talking about our history of protest, nothing to do with the kids in question.

The second one was talking about how the school system in Ireland tries to create perfect little drone kids with no independent thought. Again nothing to do with what you said.

the third one was talking in general terms about people standing up for themselves in the face of what they perceive to be unfair.

As for the 4th I guess you don't know the reference or if you do I have no idea why you quoted it in this context.

I quoted 4 of them because they were all overreactions made by you (mostly you, actually) and the OP. As you probably know, ideally the UN intervene where human rights are being violated. Intervention by the UN, or any external force such as a trial of the school principal by media (a 'solution' that you put forward) in this situation, would also be an overreaction. Hence why I brought it up.

In the first post, the OP is trying to justify the students' protest by placing it in a timeline of Irish protests that include the 1913 lockout. You seem to be interested in politics, so you'll probably understand that putting that side by side with a story about students who were suspended for going on the hop and disrupting everybody else's school day because they weren't allowed to have a soccer tournament is pretty silly.

That is a joke. A pretty hilarious one, at that.

The next 2 highlight your interesting choice of vocabulary and rhetoric regarding suppression of rights and potential (terms and clichés such as 'quashing ... resistance', 'worker bees for the system' and 'duty bound to themselves and those who follow them'), much akin to the type tone that you'd expect to find in a political manifesto. Also highlighted is your opinion that the Irish school system exists solely to brainwash students into unquestioning obedience of authority. Come off it, we're not back in the DDR. These students are not being hauled over the coals because of their beliefs. They broke the school rules and disrupted other student's learning in the lead up to exams and now they will have to accept the consequences.

I'm quite confused by your issue with the 4th one. I would have thought that my reference to a 'benevolent dictator' would have clicked with you. Apparently not.

FAILSAFE 00

stoplooklisten wrote: »

Seems a reasonable demand from the principal. Imagine, in a few weeks, they'll be joining us in the real world.

But... but... its so unfair

Welcome to the real world

nice_guy80

I hope they protested as vehemently when a few of their classes were cancelled during the year due to teachers being sick

Benevolent Misanthrope

4ensic15 wrote: »

When I went to school, teachers were hypocrites. I wouldn't think anything has changed. If those pupils had been properly educated they would automatically have more on their mind before the exams. It is obvious that the school failed to motivate them and now wants to blame this for the poor results they will get in the exams.

Yes, this is obvious.

Or perhaps wild and unfounded speculation. Definitely one or the other though.

Hibrasil

Benevolent Misanthrope wrote: »

Presumably he is standing up for what he believes in and feels passionately about. The right to protest is in the constitution!*

*probably, somewhere towards the back

The right to protest is not in the constitution - there is, among other things, the right to free speech and the right to freedom of assembly; I regret to say that there is no right to protest specified in the constitution; More fireside lawyer stuff.

Benevolent Misanthrope

Hibrasil wrote: »

The right to protest is not in the constitution - there is, among other things, the right to free speech and the right to freedom of assembly; I regret to say that there is no right to protest specified in the constitution; More fireside lawyer stuff.

Indeed. But you hear it trotted out so often by 'patriots' and people who generally feel the world owes them a living.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

spurious

In loco parentis is what the barristers would call it and you can be full sure if a child goes missing while in the care of the school authorities, it is the school authorities will be held responsible.

Angron

I've had a few reported posts where people are just picking at grammar or spelling. That's not a constructive argument, and is against boards rules, so knock it off.

Jayop

wokingvoter wrote: »

But you've said that no teacher should have to enquire about the whereabouts of any particular student to the detriment of the other pupils so I don't know how you would expect them to make you aware "asap " that she had absconded.
In your world teenagers are free to drift in and out of school as they please.
If this chaos is annoying to pupils who want to learn in a calm organised environment, well that's just tough.
It's far more important that your daughter can exercise her free will to come and go as she pleases.
I'd prefer the prison atmosphere myself.

How dare you refer to my world and then make wild assumptions that are quite insulting. You ask how a teacher would let you know a child is missing. I did explain but maybe you struggle so here it is again. In our school there's a phone in each class room. They pick it up and call the secretary to see if there's an explained absence, if not the secretary can alert the parent.

It's really not that difficult to wrap your head around the process and how you then make the leap to me thinking kids should be free to come and go as they please is beyond me.

J Mysterio

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Good enough for them. A soccer tournament is a discretionary activity the school can cancel whenever they want. They're not there to accede to the demands of students in relation to recreational activities. If the students had been protesting about a valid issue relating to their education I would support them but not in relation to this idiocy. They should have found something more worthy to "believe in".

The fun police. It behooves me to quote shankly:

"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."

J Mysterio

4ensic15 wrote: »

If you farted in a class the teacher would beat you to a pulp but teachers themselves farted and carried on as if nothing had happened. This despite the fact that their farts were far worse.

:pac:

louloumc89

So I actually went to Moate Community school graduated about 10 years ago, and my little brother was one of the 55 suspended.

I think the principal did what he felt he had to. He's working in a system where free thought is not measured or valuable. His job is measured on how well his students can memorise leaving cert material and regurgitate it for exams. He's a good principal, and this year group (my brother included) are liberal. To say that they are unruly or rude kids is unfair. To call them bullies is even worse. I'm sure you might find 1 or 2 bad kids in a number like 55 kids. My brother is a very liberal thinker, vegan, musician type of person and he believes in fairness. I'm personally extremely happy to know that he wasn't afraid to stand up for what he felt was right. In some cultures, like China for example, they respect authority based on a person's age or job. In this country, we have a much smaller barrier between our students and educators, and respect must be earned. I personally respected teachers automatically at that age, but there's a new generation now, and they want explanations and they're just different. To be fair, I think this country has gotten lazy and followed our leaders blindly. We're waking up as a country now, and there's a shift in the questioning of authority. Nothing wrong with that. They were in a study hall, and keeping volume at a normal level, not roaming the school causing chaos. They simply wanted to make a stand against what they felt was a unfair decision against their year group.

As much as im sure the principal did what he thought he had to, At the end of the day, suspending 55 leaving cert students in the middle of May is absolute madness. They've probably been wrecking his head all year, sounds like he's no control over them, so maybe they deserved it. However, driving a principal to mass suspend so many students in a situation where they feel they are right, is probably a win for the students anyways. Going home saying your suspended is terrifiing id imagine, but if your 1 of 55 your parents probably wont mind too much. The students going to suffer are those who are actually really focused on their leaving certs.

Judging by the harshness of suspending 55 students for spending 3 classes in study hall, I imagine the initial punishment could well have been an overreaction too. It's important to remember that these are 18 year olds, they're adults. Imagine if someone didn't respect you in work? how will that relationship be? I think at that age you have to show people respect to have any sort of chance of working well. Sounds like this situation got totally out of hand.

4ensic15

J Mysterio wrote: »

:pac:

You can laugh but at that time teachers rarely washed themselves and most smoked cheap cigarettes or a pipe. They also went drinking in pubs at night. The smell off them was awful. You would be almost retching if they stood near you in a class. Their farts were malodourous beyond belief. It was all right for them. They told us not to smoke or drink and not to fart yet they did it all the time themselves. Utter hypocrites.

Phoebas

louloumc89 wrote: »

Judging by the harshness of suspending 55 students for spending 3 classes in study hall, I imagine the initial punishment could well have been an overreaction too. It's important to remember that these are 18 year olds, they're adults. Imagine if someone didn't respect you in work? how will that relationship be? I think at that age you have to show people respect to have any sort of chance of working well. Sounds like this situation got totally out of hand.

Suspensions may have been harsh (how long were they for?), but a school is not a democracy or a place where everyone is equal. This is a large school with 1250 students; the staff need to be able to maintain discipline. And the students will have all signed up to the school's code of discipline.

If someone didn't respect me at work, or, keeping to the analogy, if my CEO made a decision that I thought was unfair, I'd go through the proper channels, or I'd just suck it up.
I wouldn't stage a sit-in in the conference room and I wouldn't last too long if I did.

stoplooklisten

louloumc89 wrote: »

....My brother is a very liberal thinker
,.... but if your 1 of 55 your parents probably wont mind too much.......


It's important to remember that these are 18 year olds, they're adults. Imagine if someone didn't respect you in work? how will that relationship be? I think at that age you have to show people respect to have any sort of chance of working well. Sounds like this situation got totally out of hand.

A liberal thinker who follows the other 54 like sheep, but then if 55 of them are doing it nobody thinks they are going to get punished


Would you cry off from work and sit in the car park if the boss told you the 5 aside was cancelled?

Wanderer78

Apologies folks, I'm jumping in here without knowing whats really going on but I persisted with a protest when I was in school, at almost 40, I'm glad I did. It has been one of the most important things I've done in my life. It showed me to stand up for what I believe in, and I still stand by that. Our educational system is quite oppressive. It does a very bad job of preparing people for the work force, even adulthood. I say, we have successfully made education, unfun! This is a problem! It should be a fun and happy place, but it is not for many, including the teachers. It is a one size fits all system, but humans are not like that. Our schools are essentially factories. Why are we doing this to kids? If you don't learn by the methods and speeds of the system, you're gonna struggle, possible even fail in that system. We need to rethink this and fast. Best of luck to all involved including the staff.

Chancer3001

it;s PRINCIPAL.

PRINCIPAL.

NOT PRINCIPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Also, now they have a few days off school, they should all met and have a great big soccer tournament somewhere. That'd be ideal.

evolving_doors

louloumc89 wrote: »

So I actually went to Moate Community school graduated about 10 years ago, and my little brother was one of the 55 suspended.
[...]

Ok good so you know what went on, as is the way with these things there's never enough info to get a complete picture, maybe you can shed some light.

1. Someone earlier on alleged that they disrupted an Art practical exam by protesting outside/beside it, is this true?

2. You describe your brother as 'little' and use the term 'kids' but later on you say "It's important to remember that these are 18 year olds, they're adults."
So which is it, or is it a mix? This is important because if they are adults then Loco Parentis no longer applies and the 'adults' are free to come and go as they please... thus creating a difficult situation for a Principal.

3. What exactly was they nub of their complaint... that a game of football was cancelled? Why was it cancelled?

4. Who organises the game every year and where does it take place?

5. Was it 55 Leaving Cert students who were suspended?

6. In general you agree with the principal's position, would you have done things differently yourself?

7. There was also an allegation of Snapchat bullying, that's a whole can of worms in terms of allegations and proving who said what for the moment... but just to ask... was there incidences of abuse via Snapchat prior to the protest?

8. Also someone alleged that it wasn't just for 3 consecutive periods they gathered, they also 'allegedly' mitched other classes as well, is this true.

I suppose it's normal for LCerts to start missing days coming up to LCert and then there's the whole 'I'm staying at home to study' thing that starts... but to have students wandering around and picking and chosing what classes they want to go to is a disaster and it does impact on other students who get distracted wondering if it's ok to skip or not. So what we say to the guys is that if they want to stay at home and study for the last 2 weeks that's fine, but if they're coming to school then they should be in class.

I think every school has gone through the wobblers coming up to LC:
Staying at home
Skipping class
Not correct uniform/hair/piercings (This is gold dust for Joe Duffy shows BTW).
Egging teachers cars
Attacking other schools (I better stop before I start giving ideas!)

And suspensions really aren't that big a deal (There is no permanent record BTW! Except for references later on though maybe!).

In the heel of the hunt:
The students don't want to be in class. Fine they can study at home or the local library, if they're adults then no problem with this.
The students are disrupting other classes, again... stay at home.
They want to play football... fine, there's loads of pitches in that area, let them play football as the fella above said

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Also, now they have a few days off school, they should all met and have a great big soccer tournament somewhere. That'd be ideal.

They want to demonstrate how protest will lead to a Principal changing his mind.... ahhh no.

Wanderer78

Gebgbegb wrote:

2. You describe your brother as 'little' and use the term 'kids' but later on you say "It's important to remember that these are 18 year olds, they're adults." So which is it, or is it a mix? This is important because if they are adults then Loco Parentis no longer applies and the 'adults' are free to come and go as they please... thus creating a difficult situation for a Principal.

Totally disagree with the 18 and adults statement. People mature at different rates. I was very immature and naive at that age

Steven81

Chancer3001 wrote: »

it;s PRINCIPAL.

PRINCIPAL.

NOT PRINCIPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Also, now they have a few days off school, they should all met and have a great big soccer tournament somewhere. That'd be ideal.

Always told the principal is your pal, remember it that way.

Wanderer78

Steven81 wrote:

Always told the principal is your pal, remember it that way.

I didn't have a particular intelligent principal unfortunately which complicated matters, but I think we both came out of our dispute with some respect for each other

4ensic15

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Apologies folks, I'm jumping in here without knowing whats really going on but I persisted with a protest when I was in school, at almost 40, .

If you were still in school at almost 40 you definitely were not prepared for the real world.