Lidl in Portmarnock Village

Grolschevik

I'm not so sure. I'm not in favour of the plan, but primarily for traffic reasons.

I think that those people that know and use the fantastic and award-winning off-licence, for example, will continue to do so. There's a Dunnes, a Lidl in Baldoyle, a Lidl near Clarehall, and the massive Tesco at Clarehall, all only about two miles away. And yet people still drive to that off-licence. And maybe if people unfamiliar with the area wander across the road, they may even see an increase in footfall.

Biggest loser, I would say, will be the petrol station shop. Most of the other retailers are niche enough.

The greengrocer, for example, has way better quality fruit and veg than any German multiple. Same for the butcher, but they already do comparable deals and prices.

Allyall

Yes, but they will lose some (possibly quite a lot of) customers. It's far more likely that someone going out to buy 6 cans of lager will go into Lidl, or someone looking for a quick dinner etc. The Off Licence will suffer, award winning or not. As will the butchers, pharmacy and Greengrocers.
Petrol station shop will do okay. When people go into pay for their petrol, they grab items. Unlikely they'll want to drive a bit further down the road to grab a cup of coffee or a packet of crisps.
As for the greengrocer, when people are in doing their shopping in Lidl, they'll grab a bit of fruit and veg. (Don't Lidl do specials and have highly recommended fruit and veg?).
Depending on the size of the carpark they put in, the traffic could be okay or horrendous.

Grolschevik

Again, not so sure. For example, I sometimes shop in Charlestown in Finglas, and I'll use the off-licence there as it chills its product. The Dunnes, Aldi, and Lidl within walking distance don't.

Similarly, if I shop in the Aldi there, I'll go across to the butcher shop there because of the quality and bundle deals. Same if I shop in Tesco in Clarehall; there's a butcher just across the way that offers better and often cheaper stuff than Tesco.

Depends where the bulk of the customers come from. I really doubt that someone after a six-pack of lager would go into a Lidl just for that -- to (a) find that what they really want is out of stock, (b) pick up some generic stuff they've never heard of, and (c) suffer warm rather than chilled.

Especially when, if they don't want to use the off-licence, there are numerous other supermarkets less than a ten-minute drive away. That makes me think that the main impact may involve those not driving. Then again, I've seen people pay way over the odds for an off-sale of warm Bud from the pub than bother to walk the hundred yards to the off-licence.

Butcher: you may be right. Depends.

Pharmacy: people don't go into pharmacies just for 60c shower gel. Painkillers, Rennie etc are a comparable price in Lidl.

But I guess we'll see.

Traffic already pretty bad at school-getting-out hours. Lidl can only make it worse.

Also: "Petrol station shop ... When people go into pay for their petrol, they grab items." True, but very many of its customers (me included) use it because it's the nearest shop in walking and driving terms to all those developments up on Station Road and into "Old" Portmarnock. And it is not good value on branded items at all!

Atlantic Dawn

It's a terrible site for it, traffic will be mahem from 9 till 10pm each day. Surely there's a far better site somewhere between the turn to the right of the place and Portmarnock Golf Course, plenty of space and wouldn't bother anyone except an arctic tern every 100 years or that.

Allyall

I think everyone agrees it is a terrible site regarding the traffic.

Regarding the Pharmacy (or any other business), it's not that people go in there to buy a 60c bottle of shower gel, it's that when they're in there, they buy a few other items that they may need which in turn helps keep the shop open through the tougher periods.
With Lidl next door, they'll not be doing that as often.

Isn't another Lidl or Aldi also going into Malahide?

Grolschevik

Allyall wrote: »

I think everyone agrees it is a terrible site regarding the traffic.

Regarding the Pharmacy (or any other business), it's not that people go in there to buy a 60c bottle of shower gel, it's that when they're in there, they buy a few other items that they may need which in turn helps keep the shop open through the tougher periods.
With Lidl next door, they'll not be doing that as often.

Isn't another Lidl or Aldi also going into Malahide?

A better way of stating my points is that people don't go into supermarkets just to pick up a thing or two, unless the alternatives are non-existent or gougingly expensive. They go into supermarkets for larger shopping. And, yeah, they may well pick up their six-pack or bottle of wine while they're there.

But someone who only wants an ice-cream, a Cornish pasty, a packet of crisps, a box of Rennie, a six-pack, or a newspaper etc is more likely to avoid the supermarket queues and hassle (the product hide-and-seek and till time) and go to the alternative local shop. At least, I would.

And people who pick up all those things as part of their weekly shop? They'd do that in whatever supermarket they go to, whether it's in Portmarnock or not.

dak

Allyall wrote: »

Yes, but they will lose some (possibly quite a lot of) customers. It's far more likely that someone going out to buy 6 cans of lager will go into Lidl, or someone looking for a quick dinner etc. The Off Licence will suffer, award winning or not. As will the butchers, pharmacy and Greengrocers.
Petrol station shop will do okay. When people go into pay for their petrol, they grab items. Unlikely they'll want to drive a bit further down the road to grab a cup of coffee or a packet of crisps.
As for the greengrocer, when people are in doing their shopping in Lidl, they'll grab a bit of fruit and veg. (Don't Lidl do specials and have highly recommended fruit and veg?).
Depending on the size of the carpark they put in, the traffic could be okay or horrendous.

The site will have 85 car parking spaces ( Under the planning conditions they are stated as public car parking at all times ) . I live 100 yards from the development and already it is hard to turn right at certain times of the day. The An Bord Pleanala Board overturned their own inspector who recommended refusing the appeal.

The Board stated in their original decision that the development " would not be likely to give rise to a traffic hazard " . This wording is dropped in the final document published on Fingals planning page and is replaced with " would be acceptable in terms of traffic safety and convenience"

Dak

neris

dak wrote: »

The Board stated in their original decision that the development " would not be likely to give rise to a traffic hazard " . This wording is dropped in the final document published on Fingals planning page and is replaced with " would be acceptable in terms of traffic safety and convenience"

they must have conveniently forgotten the primary school & special needs service a hundred meters up the road and the creche directly opposite the site when it came to safety.

dslamjack

All the relevant information is here ....

http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00512824.pdf


http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=F15A/0265&theTabNo=8

Interesting that the site was originally earmarked for a community centre / library.

Grolschevik

dslamjack wrote:

Interesting that the site was originally earmarked for a community centre / library.

That would have been fantastic.

Allyall

Grolschevik wrote: »

That would have been fantastic.

Who's going to pay them to allow a community centre there? :rolleyes:

That would have been a great idea.
I'd really love to know the reason the decision was overturned.

Atlantic Dawn

I'd imagine traffic lights will need to be fitted and these will result in a backing of cars on the next set of lights near the school and complete mayhem.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

That village is already a nightmare to drive through. How this got approved is bizarre. I'm sure we all know how it was eventually approved

There are hectares of land about 400 meters down the road that could accommodate the shopping unit but most importantly, there would be space to allow a proper access road.

I really hope this gets appealed and refused.

odyssey06

DCC gave planning permission for LIDL in East Wall, at the same junction as an ALDI, on one of the main routes across the city and one of the main access roads to Dublin Port. So it wouldn't surprise me if this gets the go-ahead... I would be concerned about the traffic too.

That's interesting that the parking spaces are *public* rather than LIDL only. I assume that would mean free for 2-3 hours? So that might help some of the other businesses in the vicinity.

dslamjack

From what I can see it's a done deal,as was said above the only other option is the legal route ,and that would be throwing good money after bad.
I'm afraid people are stuck with it now,it goes to show how important it is to keep an eye on the L.A.P (local area plan submissions for the new plan are now closed) and on new planning applications.
Time to vist ,call or mail your local councillor and let them know of your concern,and how your ''concern'' can effect your voting pattern's on such matters and local issues.
I have to say the https://www.mapalerter.com/latest/planning/item/fingal-county-council-planning-alert-19-05-2016-10727 ... is really handy,its only since I discovered it that I try to keep a bit of an eye on these things,because not everything gets reported in the local papers.

P.S in the new Donabate area plan ... permission has been granted for a supermarket ...errr ...Lidl or Aldi .. I'd wager

mayway

Does anyone know when the shop is going to be built?

dak

Hi Mayway

They are currently digging test holes for the foundations and the build is expected to start in Jan 2017. They managed to knock out the electricity in Portmarnock last week when they hit a cable that wasn't on an ESB map !

Regards

Dak

Brendan Bendar

Big White hoarding all around the site now.

Sounds of digging.

Opening in "the Spring" .


Predicting traffic problems.

easygoing39

Site looks well,white hoarding with a go-faster 2 tone green strip!! Safety notice,site map and builders details on a notice board at the gate,looks very professional and above board.

Hollister11

I Still wish it was a aldi. Lidl is only in Baldoyle

T-Maxx

More shops = better distributed traffic = win imo

veetwin

There is a story doing the rounds in Portmarnock that Lidl are planning to build an "illegal third floor" in this development. Public meeting about this Thursday evening in The Sands apparently.

Davy

veetwin wrote: »

There is a story doing the rounds in Portmarnock that Lidl are planning to build an "illegal third floor" in this development. Public meeting about this Thursday evening in The Sands apparently.

http://www.gazettegroup.com/news/lidl-works-cause-lot-anger-portmarnock/

The spokesperson added: “Lidl plans to arrange a local community information evening on Thurs-day, January 5, between 3pm and 9pm in White Sands Hotel, Portmarnock, where representatives of our company, McCallion Construction – our main contractor – and our full design team, will be on hand to answer any queries.”

Ernest

dak wrote: »

Planning was granted by the planning Board who overturned their own Inspectors decision . The only possible way to object now is by way of judical review to the High Court but that is a risky road as losers pay all fees which could be between 100 to 200k.

It will ruin the Character of Portmarnock Village . Most of the people in Portmarnock would like to see the site developed but not with a monstrosity of a building.

Dak

Regrettably the "character of Portmarnock village" has long ago been ruined by a string of shanty-town developments. Sadly it has no "character" at the moment.
The artists impression of the proposed Lidl as published in the Fingal Independent in August last suggests a building of some character which could only improve the streetscape. http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/portmarnock-lidl-must-shrink-31439920.html

dak

veetwin wrote: »

There is a story doing the rounds in Portmarnock that Lidl are planning to build an "illegal third floor" in this development. Public meeting about this Thursday evening in The Sands apparently.

The 3rd floor is seemingly an IT and plant room. I would find it hard to believe if they forgot to add this to the original planning application . The planning does sate that there should be nothing above the roof line unless separate planning permission is granted.

Also the construction maps submitted only show 80 car parking spaces whereas the planning requires a minimum of 85 spaces

The Construction Compnay McCallion are holding an information day from 3pm to 9pm in Sands Hotel on Thursday 5th Jan. Should be lively as a lot of Residents plan to turn up at 7pm !

ongarboy

easygoing39 wrote: »

Site looks well,white hoarding with a go-faster 2 tone green strip!! Safety notice,site map and builders details on a notice board at the gate,looks very professional and above board.

The new look Lidls are so much more impressive looking and pleasant to shop in than the original sterile ones first built in Ireland. They have much more of an upmarket feel with fresh bakery smells etc. The new shop in Gorey is an example of the next generation Lidls. The Portmarnock one will model this as will the other new Lidls under construction across the country at the moment.

Brendan Bendar

Ernest wrote: »

Regrettably the "character of Portmarnock village" has long ago been ruined by a string of shanty-town developments. Sadly it has no "character" at the moment.
The artists impression of the proposed Lidl as published in the Fingal Independent in August last suggests a building of some character which could only improve the streetscape. http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/portmarnock-lidl-must-shrink-31439920.html

I heard of 'artistic license' but that takes the biscuit.

Off the wall.

Ernest

ongarboy wrote: »

The new look Lidls are so much more impressive looking and pleasant to shop in than the original sterile ones first built in Ireland. They have much more of an upmarket feel with fresh bakery smells etc. The new shop in Gorey is an example of the next generation Lidls. The Portmarnock one will model this as will the other new Lidls under construction across the country at the moment.

There is also a recently opened Lidl on the Dublin end of Swords which has this more opulent-looking style. One like that would definitely enhance Portmarnock.

dak

veetwin wrote: »

There is a story doing the rounds in Portmarnock that Lidl are planning to build an "illegal third floor" in this development. Public meeting about this Thursday evening in The Sands apparently.

I went to the Lidl information meeting in Sands last night . There is no illegal third floor . As they are not allowed to put plant on top of the roof they have had to house a plant room internally on a second floor mezzanine .

Dak

dak

ongarboy wrote: »

The new look Lidls are so much more impressive looking and pleasant to shop in than the original sterile ones first built in Ireland. They have much more of an upmarket feel with fresh bakery smells etc. The new shop in Gorey is an example of the next generation Lidls. The Portmarnock one will model this as will the other new Lidls under construction across the country at the moment.

The artists impression of the one in Portmarnock shows a stone finish like the one in Swords . However the Portmarnock Lidl wont have this type of stone finish . Lidl had to show samples to Fingal for agreement and somebody in Fingal decided that it should be finished in the same sort of stone as the Building at Kingsford cross . The 3D image I saw last night doesnt look as well as the Stone finish ! The Kingsford Cross finish is pretty boring and looks terrible in the wet !