Lidl in Portmarnock Village

Inquitus · 11-01-2017 11:04am

I don't get all the moaning about the new Lidl it's not like Portmarnock village is some sort of idealistic architectural beauty, one of the new Lidl buildings would be an improvement on most of whats there already, is it just snobbery at a perceived "lower class" supermarket being introduced?

dak · 11-01-2017 11:33am

Inquitus wrote: »

I don't get all the moaning about the new Lidl it's not like Portmarnock village is some sort of idealistic architectural beauty, one of the new Lidl buildings would be an improvement on most of whats there already, is it just snobbery at a perceived "lower class" supermarket being introduced?

I agree Portmarnock village is no architectural beauty . I'm involved in Portmarnock Community Association and the only major complaint I hear is about the size of the building and traffic and safety concerns people have as the entrance to the carpark will be off a very narrow road into St Annes Estate. This entrance will be used by Lidl delivery vehicles and its right beside a creche so people will always have concerns over small children and traffic in the vicinity .

I think there is any snobbery and nearly everyone I know shops in Lidl and Aldi on a regular basis . Recent Lidl and aldi shops are much nicer than their earlier ones . It will be good for Dunnes to have a bit of competition in the area !

Brendan Bendar · 11-01-2017 11:33am

Inquitus wrote: »

I don't get all the moaning about the new Lidl it's not like Portmarnock village is some sort of idealistic architectural beauty, one of the new Lidl buildings would be an improvement on most of whats there already, is it just snobbery at a perceived "lower class" supermarket being introduced?

I think that the traffic issues are the problem.

Why would anyone in Portmarnock not want competition for Dunnes?

Ps.. Still moving earth from the site.

McAlban · 11-01-2017 12:43pm

dak wrote: »

The artists impression of the one in Portmarnock shows a stone finish like the one in Swords . However the Portmarnock Lidl wont have this type of stone finish . Lidl had to show samples to Fingal for agreement and somebody in Fingal decided that it should be finished in the same sort of stone as the Building at Kingsford cross . The 3D image I saw last night doesnt look as well as the Stone finish ! The Kingsford Cross finish is pretty boring and looks terrible in the wet !

This is probably due to objections and or "in keeping with buildings of similar scale in the vicinity." If Lidl was built first with the stone finsih as in Swords Kingsford Cross would probably have to be too.

dak · 11-01-2017 12:51pm

McAlban wrote: »

This is probably due to objections and or "in keeping with buildings of similar scale in the vicinity." If Lidl was built first with the stone finsih as in Swords Kingsford Cross would probably have to be too.

No objections to stone finish .. Lidl had to show samples to Fingal planners and they made the decision !

McAlban · 11-01-2017 1:17pm

dak wrote: »

No objections to stone finish .. Lidl had to show samples to Fingal planners and they made the decision !

Yes, decision based on existing buildings. It's a shame, I think the New one in Swords is finished quite well and fits in with it's surroundings.

The Public right of way argument is laughable. It was a 15m Shortcut across green space that was essentially wasteland. The actual right of way is only 5m away, adding approximately 15m to the a journey.

dak · 11-01-2017 1:29pm

McAlban wrote: »

Yes, decision based on existing buildings. It's a shame, I think the New one in Swords is finished quite well and fits in with it's surroundings.

The Public right of way argument is laughable. It was a 15m Shortcut across green space that was essentially wasteland. The actual right of way is only 5m away, adding approximately 15m to the a journey.

I agree it wont stop any construction and most judges would laugh at you and throw the case out as there is no 2 mile detour or dicommoding . The person objecting is doing so on principle that Fingal Coco didn't extinguish the right of way through normal procedures when they sold to land to Mannix Smith Previously .

McAlban · 11-01-2017 2:34pm

dak wrote: »

I agree it wont stop any construction and most judges would laugh at you and throw the case out as there is no 2 mile detour or dicommoding . The person objecting is doing so on principle that Fingal Coco didn't extinguish the right of way through normal procedures when they sold to land to Mannix Smith Previously .

They are attempting to stop the building process after it has begun by throwing any reason into the mix. The assumed Right of Way is gone but the actual ROW is not changed. They claim the Council recognised the ROW in 2007 but I'd love to see the documentation/evidence for this claim?

It's why developments of all kinds take ages in Fingal. I fully support valid objections to planning. God knows we've had far too many unwise developments go ahead.

So to review since construction started...

Concerns raised due to...

The Contractor hitting an ESB cable nobody knew was there, not even the ESB. Causing a few hours outage.

An Old woman "having" to walk down the middle of a quiet residential road, (Instead of using the other footpath.)

"Illegally" starting work due to hoardings not being in place. (??)

A questionable right of way being extinguished.

Some people will never accept decisions and this I'm afraid stinks of NIMBY'ism.

dak · 11-01-2017 2:50pm

McAlban wrote: »

They are attempting to stop the building process after it has begun by throwing any reason into the mix. The assumed Right of Way is gone but the actual ROW is not changed. They claim the Council recognised the ROW in 2007 but I'd love to see the documentation/evidence for this claim?

It's why developments of all kinds take ages in Fingal. I fully support valid objections to planning. God knows we've had far too many unwise developments go ahead.

So to review since construction started...

Concerns raised due to...

The Contractor hitting an ESB cable nobody knew was there, not even the ESB. Causing a few hours outage.

An Old woman "having" to walk down the middle of a quiet residential road, (Instead of using the other footpath.)

"Illegally" starting work due to hoardings not being in place. (??)

A questionable right of way being extinguished.

Some people will never accept decisions and this I'm afraid stinks of NIMBY'ism.

Hi McAlban

Your summary is correct..there was talk of going for a judical review at the time but that would have required someone to have the potential to fund a minimum of circa €100k as loser pays all costs in a Judical review .

The acknowledgement of ROW as far as I am aware was raised at a council meeting by retired Councillor Peter Coyle in 2007 ? where he stated that the ROW would need to be extinguished before any sale or development of the land should proceed . The Council never followed up on this and failed to extinguish the ROW through normal channels.

Dak

McAlban · 11-01-2017 3:47pm

dak wrote: »

Hi McAlban

Your summary is correct..there was talk of going for a judical review at the time but that would have required someone to have the potential to fund a minimum of circa €100k as loser pays all costs in a Judical review .

The acknowledgement of ROW as far as I am aware was raised at a council meeting by retired Councillor Peter Coyle in 2007 ? where he stated that the ROW would need to be extinguished before any sale or development of the land should proceed . The Council never followed up on this and failed to extinguish the ROW through normal channels.

Dak

Raising a assumed ROW in a Council meeting is not acknowledging it. Its not up to FCC to prove a ROW exists, the burden of proof is on anyone wishing to assert the ROW exists and it must be done in Court. Only then do FCC have to apply to extinguish it. It would be a waste of money to test this in the courts.

The bigger concern is traffic, having witnessed the havoc caused by Lidl Rathbeale Road regularly. It will cause an increase in traffic. Lack of a Proper Regional Road into and out of Portmarnock is an issue, a relief road or Regional Road linking out to the R107 or N1 would mitigate this, however in the ad hoc way Portmarnock has grown in the last 50 years means there's nowhere to put this hypothetical Road.

mayway · 11-01-2017 3:49pm

Inquitus wrote: »

I don't get all the moaning about the new Lidl it's not like Portmarnock village is some sort of idealistic architectural beauty, one of the new Lidl buildings would be an improvement on most of whats there already, is it just snobbery at a perceived "lower class" supermarket being introduced?

I'm pretty sure that that is exactly what the problem is. It's really pathetic.

Besides, if the people of Portmarnock don't want the shopping centre then all they have to do is stay away. It will soon close.

McAlban · 11-01-2017 4:00pm

mayway wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that that is exactly what the problem is. It's really pathetic.

Besides, if the people of Portmarnock don't want the shopping centre then all they have to do is stay away. It will soon close.

I don't believe it's only snobbery. I mean look at the state of other retail units in the town. Horrible 80's Architecture, redbrick horrors, with faux terracotta coloured tiles which seems to have influenced a lot of other buildings around.

Hopefully it will raise the standard of Retail units around the area from the single story redbrick shacks that are there now.

dak · 11-01-2017 4:17pm

mayway wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that that is exactly what the problem is. It's really pathetic.

Besides, if the people of Portmarnock don't want the shopping centre then all they have to do is stay away. It will soon close.

Hi Mayway

I would have to disagree with you . I'm sure there are a few snobby people who would turn up their noses at Lidl ( Just like in any other area) but the majority of people in Portmarnock will have no issue with it apart from the traffic !

If it was Malahide then I would agree with you!

Dak

denis behan city legend · 24-01-2017 4:33pm

The main issues are the bad planning and impact on traffic - the fact of it being a budget supermarket is low on the list of complaints - Lidl and Aldi's combined market share is c21% which is similiar enough to the big boys.

dak · 25-01-2017 6:16pm

denis behan city legend wrote: »

The main issues are the bad planning and impact on traffic - the fact of it being a budget supermarket is low on the list of complaints - Lidl and Aldi's combined market share is c21% which is similiar enough to the big boys.

Totally agree... I have lived in Portmarnock Village for over 22 years and the traffic congestion has been getting worse especially at peak times every year . The numbers for example in the primary school 200 yards away have doubled in the last 10 years . twice as many parents dropping off and collecting each morning and evening . There is a funeral home opposite the site to add to congestion. There is a large development of 250 houses and 400 apts being built on station road which will add to traffic.

Bad planning and overdevelopment of this site is the real issue . No one really cares who the anchor tenant is ! Planners are allowing an over development of this site and the main entrance for customers and deliveries is through one narrow residential road into St Annes .

There is not even a right hand filter lane on strand road into the development .

Add all this to the fact that there is another junction to Strandmill and the golf club on strand road 100 yards from the entrance and you dont have to be a genius to know that this will make an existing problem even worse .

In a years time I nearly expect Portmarnock to appear in AA Roadwatch in gridlock... I would be delighted to be wrong but only time will tell all!

Dak

Brendan Bendar · 25-01-2017 6:26pm

Someone told me Dunnes, up at the better end of Portmarnock are looking to expand.

I seem to remember there was a butchers beside it and a vacant premise up north of the Pharmacy.

Any truth in that ,I wonder.

dak · 26-01-2017 11:45am

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Someone told me Dunnes, up at the better end of Portmarnock are looking to expand.

I seem to remember there was a butchers beside it and a vacant premise up north of the Pharmacy.

Any truth in that ,I wonder.

Dont know about the expansion but it is true there was a butchers Hickeys at the front entrance of Dunnes ( Closed as the butcher retired ) and the vacant premises would be the Dunnes Cafe ( closed a while back) on the right hand side of the pharmacy which is in the middle of the 2 vacant premises !

If Dunnes bought the pharmacy they would have heaps of room to expand !

Grolschevik · 26-01-2017 12:24pm

Butcher and pharmacy still there. Third unit empty.

dak · 26-01-2017 12:55pm

Grolschevik wrote: »

Butcher and pharmacy still there. Third unit empty.

Butchers has been closed for at least 6 months !

Grolschevik · 26-01-2017 2:58pm

dak wrote:

Butchers has been closed for at least 6 months !

Was open last time I went past it, about two weeks ago?

Edit: almost certain!

Brendan Bendar · 26-01-2017 5:12pm

Grolschevik wrote: »

Was open last time I went past it, about two weeks ago?

Edit: almost certain!

No Grolschevick it was Tony Higgins butchers closed at least a few months.

Probably the pharm is renting the premises and the last unit was a cafe.

With new laws 'imminent' re off licence segregation I would bet the beer a wine section would be a certain to move to the nearest vacant unit.

Hollister11 · 26-01-2017 5:14pm

I pass there once a week, and I'm sure i always see the butchers open.

Brendan Bendar · 26-01-2017 5:16pm

Hollister11 wrote: »

I pass there once a week, and I'm sure i always see the butchers open.

Pass where?

Maybe you are mixing it up with JW Smythes in Portmarnock village??

Grolschevik · 26-01-2017 5:56pm

Jaysus, if that's the case, I've been very unobservant. Usually pass it at least once a week!

Brendan Bendar · 26-01-2017 6:08pm

Grolschevik wrote: »

Jaysus, if that's the case, I've been very unobservant. Usually pass it at least once a week!

Could be my fault, I mentioned that Dunnes were seeking planning permission
to expand and kind of linked it with Lidl arrival.

The butchers in question were beside Dunnes and are DEFINITELY closed!!

Apologies if I dragged the thread off topic.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 27-01-2017 2:17pm

I grew up there and based on your 'opinion' it would appear you do not know the area. It has nothing to do with snobbery or class. Most residents would welcome another supermarket, once it was in a suitable location.

The planning permission should never have been granted approval on that site. It is a disgrace that permission was granted and I hope one day we'll find out who was paid off to get this approved.

Traffic chaos is what most of the residents would and should be worried about. The Kingsford cross should equally never have been allowed (it is overlooking a primary school). The Portmarnock village road is too narrow for the volume of traffic that already passes through the village. Add to that the Lidl traffic and the impending traffic from St. Marnocks Bay, it is going to be a nightmare to travel through the village.

As mentioned repeatedly, there are hectares of land only meters away from the site.

mayway wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that that is exactly what the problem is. It's really pathetic.

Besides, if the people of Portmarnock don't want the shopping centre then all they have to do is stay away. It will soon close.

adox · 31-01-2017 4:53pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Someone told me Dunnes, up at the better end of Portmarnock are looking to expand.

The better end???

mayway · 03-02-2017 4:48pm

adox wrote: »

The better end???

There is no "better end". It's all crass. The Portmarnock residents simply do not want a lower class supermarket in their area. It's sad but true.

The guaranteed gridlock is just an added bonus.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 03-02-2017 5:26pm

This is a joke right? Have you ask the residents themselves ? Why do you consider Lidl "lower class"?

mayway wrote: »

...The Portmarnock residents simply do not want a lower class supermarket in their area. It's sad but true.

The guaranteed gridlock is just an added bonus.

whiskeyman · 06-02-2017 9:29am

mayway wrote: »

The Portmarnock residents simply do not want a lower class supermarket in their area. It's sad but true.
.

Not true.

I know lots of people in Portmarnock who would love a Lidl in their area, but this specific area is just a really bad idea.
Anyone who knows the area will tell you the same.
You clearly do not.

And besides, Lidl isn't a 'lower class' super market.
There is a Lidl in Stillorgan, Terenure, Rathmines, Ranelagh, Dundrum.... all 'lower class' areas??

Lidl in Portmarnock Village

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