Do entrepreneurs make good employees?

Moomat

Following a stint running my own transport, distribution and merchandising business for 10 years and a subsequent bankruptcy, I now find myself half way through a 4 year full-time degree and considering what to do next.
In my research of possible future employment prospects, I often come across terms such as "entrepreneurial drive", "entrepreneurial spirit" etc when companies are discussing their ideal candidate. I still haven't decided whether I will pursue a career as an employee upon graduation or get back to the entrepreneurial grind but it has me thinking;do these companies really want entrepreneurs and the personality types and traits they so often need to be successful?
Has anyone made the transition from entrepreneur to employee?

CelticRambler

In answer to your last question: kind of, yes.

In answer to the thread title: no, not me!

I was a business owner in the UK, had a ringside seat while my chosen profession was being "upheaved" by outside forces, which all worked out for the best in the end, then closed up shop to concentrate on family life for a decade.

Now I'm back working as an employee on a series of short-term contracts, mostly standing in for the female boss in very small structures where they can count on my experience to not mess things up while they're on maternity leave. All well and good, but I've had to select shorter and shorter contracts, because I can't stand the frustration of seeing things done in such-and-such a way when there are different/better/more efficient ways of doing them, and this is a critical view that covers every part of the business.

I doubt that my powers of observation and ability to identify "room for improvement" is particularly unique amongst anyone who's run their own business, but when interviewing for the few full-time jobs I've applied for - where "drive", "innovation" and "dynamism" are listed as desireable qualities - I've got the impression that the establishmen has no real desire to be challenged in that way.

Moomat

CelticRambler wrote: »

I can't stand the frustration of seeing things done in such-and-such a way when there are different/better/more efficient ways of doing them, and this is a critical view that covers every part of the business.

I doubt that my powers of observation and ability to identify "room for improvement" is particularly unique amongst anyone who's run their own business, but when interviewing for the few full-time jobs I've applied for - where "drive", "innovation" and "dynamism" are listed as desireable qualities - I've got the impression that the establishmen has no real desire to be challenged in that way.

That's exactly what I was thinking about. I wonder, in the longer term, would most people with those qualities find themselves banging their head against the wall as the structures of the business stymie any innovation and advancement that they can plainly see.
I have worked as an employee since my business closed but that was from a purely basic need to get food on the table. In the longer term, and with more options and a clean bill of financial health, I wonder would I be able to keep it up.

VincePP

It depends on your own make up.

I couldn't see myself working where i had a direct manager on a day to day basis, but I did work for a US company as a country manager for the UK, and that was easy and enjoyable with just weekly reports to European office in Paris but ultimately answerable to US.

Recently being asked if I'd get involved in a new retail setup in a management position - tempted as current business is changing and I'm not getting the enjoyment out of it I used to.

But overall I'm probably not the best for taking orders, but at the same time I'm strong with people and its probably similar for others running their own business.

So I would guess a role that allows you use your individuality that operates at arms length of day to day focus from a senior manager would suit.

CelticRambler

Moomat wrote: »

I have worked as an employee since my business closed but that was from a purely basic need to get food on the table. In the longer term, and with more options and a clean bill of financial health, I wonder would I be able to keep it up.

Apart from my current series of "stand-in" contracts, the jobs I've interviewed for were all at senior manager/director level in a well-established environment, where I would have had a reasonable degree of freedom and (I was assured) responsibility for developing some aspects of the business. I applied for them with every intention of taking the role if offered, but immediately post-interview as they were jobs in the UK and Ireland, decided the money wasn't worth the upheaval.

Very recently, an equivalent position was advertised here in France where the "state of play" is twenty years behind the UK. Based on what was written in the ad and elsewhere on their website, I have the "vision" and relevant experience, probably more than anyone else in the country, and pitched my candidature accordingly.

I didn't even get a call for interview! :pac:

Even though technically I'm a salaried employee (now on my fourth contract since the start of this year, with two more lined up for the next couple of months), it could be said that I'm running my own business in all but name, seeing as I go looking for work and to a certain extent I choose where and when I'll go, and what compromises I'm prepared to make. I think it's "freedom" in it's various forms that define the "entrepreneurial type".

pedroeibar1

Moomat wrote: »

Following a stint running my own transport, distribution and merchandising business for 10 years and a subsequent bankruptcy, I now find myself half way through a 4 year full-time degree and considering what to do next.
In my research of possible future employment prospects, I often come across terms such as "entrepreneurial drive", "entrepreneurial spirit" etc when companies are discussing their ideal candidate. I still haven't decided whether I will pursue a career as an employee upon graduation or get back to the entrepreneurial grind but it has me thinking;do these companies really want entrepreneurs and the personality types and traits they so often need to be successful?
Has anyone made the transition from entrepreneur to employee?

I think you are asking the wrong question.:)

You built a business, it failed, you went through a rough time, your cage was rattled, your confidence was (is?) shaken. So what? You're getting over it, you’re now on a 3rd level programme, a good one (I peeked;)), one that informs you and makes you think in a structured way. This period gives you time to formulate stuff, to grow your confidence, to see (examine and really see) where you went wrong in the past, to pick up and move on…

Too many people here waffle on about entrepreneurship and have no idea what it really is about. Some think that opening a coffeebar, or selling s#it online is entrepreneurship. It isn’t!! Opening your third or fourth coffee bar, or building a meaningful online presence/brand is entrepreneurship. As is picking yourself up after a failure. Once you’ve been out on your own, you will hanker after it forever. You will not be able to live comfortably with yourself as an employee (unless it is at a very very senior level). It is unidirectional, employee to entrepreneur but not the reverse. Start thinking!:)

Trojan

I think I'd make a terrible employee, particularly in a large corporation.

Once you've been your own boss for a few years there's got to be an ingrained self-reliance, a very practical approach to problem solving and a low tolerance for any kind of politics.

That said, I think an entreprenuer has the potential to be a very good employee in a small company or startup, but only in the right circumstances.

Moomat

Thanks for the replies, some interesting perspectives. It does seem the general consensus is that a high level of autonomy and room to innovate would be essential. This is inline with the feedback I have received regarding working in the professions that my degree (Law & Business) would naturally feed into.
Take law for example, when an employee moves to partner level, entrepreneurial skills would be very valuable I imagine. However, I'm not sure how I would manage the years before I made that level. I heard an interesting quote recently, something along the lines of 'a good lawyer runs away from risk, a good business man runs at it'.

I wonder would an entrepreneurial mindset mean that you never lasted the slog to make it to partner anyway?

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I think you are asking the wrong question.

You built a business, it failed, you went through a rough time, your cage was rattled, your confidence was (is?) shaken. So what? You're getting over it, you’re now on a 3rd level programme, a good one (I peeked), one that informs you and makes you think in a structured way. This period gives you time to formulate stuff, to grow your confidence, to see (examine and really see) where you went wrong in the past, to pick up and move on…

Once you’ve been out on your own, you will hanker after it forever.
It is unidirectional, employee to entrepreneur but not the reverse. Start thinking!

Thanks, the course and general environment certainly has me thinking in a more structured way.

I'm perfectly fine with the failure, I view myself as a very fortunate person for even being in the position to give running my own business a go. It's easy for cynicism to creep in when you fail but that the only thing that will achieve is drawing other cynical people to you.

My confidence didn't take too much of a knock. I'm just thinking out loud and wondering should I give the waged employee role a chance. I'm 33 years old at the moment, apart from 5 years I spent between 15 and 20 serving my time as an apprentice, and a few menial jobs after I closed my business, I've little experience of working as an employee. There's a huge push in college to support entrepreneurship and as you mentioned, I wonder am I mad for even considering going the opposite direction. I feel you're very right about hankering after it forever, my list of ideas for new businesses is going steadily and I've still 2 years before before I can even consider full time work.

Moomat

Trojan wrote: »

That said, I think an entreprenuer has the potential to be a very good employee in a small company or startup, but only in the right circumstances.

I'd been thinking this could be a good path too. Perhaps working either with or for start ups. If it was with, perhaps with Enterprise Ireland and helping early stage ventures etc could be quite rewarding and enjoyable.

ironclaw

Speaking as someone in industry, I'd reverse your question. Do you want to be an employee?

For me, I have a deeply seated entrepreneurial spirit and if certain plans or motions come to fruition, I will be taking them. The brief times I have had as 'my own boss' have spurred me on to pursue that. In industry, you need to deal with your direct manager, then company line and overall global leadership potentially. A decision you make yourself in 10 mins, could take 10 weeks and a myriad of politics to go with it. Nepotism and favouritism is rampant and ingrained. You are absolutely nothing special, don't doubt this as Ireland is a Degree / Masters / pHd printing machine, unless you have been chosen for the role and its a precision position. It can be, simply put, soul destroying.

If I was you, I'd be getting involved in small, dynamic start ups and bring your skill set. Consult, charge accordingly and sell yourself. You're marketable, but I'd market yourself as yourself, not as an employee.

barneystinson

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Too many people here waffle on about entrepreneurship and have no idea what it really is about. Some think that opening a coffeebar, or selling s#it online is entrepreneurship. It isn’t!! Opening your third or fourth coffee bar, or building a meaningful online presence/brand is entrepreneurship.

In your opinion...

In mine, and the dictionary and vernacular use of the English language, anyone who bears financial risk of generating their own income by their own wits is an entrepreneur. It's not about scale, greed, or world domination.

Water John

Some times there is scope as an employee in a larger org. This is usually in a niche area. The mainstream of the overall business doesn't largely affect the niche.

Since you mentioned law and business, I'm thinking of copyright/patent, renewable energies within larger law firms. Lots of wheeling and dealing in those areas.
You could easily rise to be a partner that way.

pedroeibar1

barneystinson wrote: »

In your opinion...

In mine, and the dictionary and vernacular use of the English language, anyone who bears financial risk of generating their own income by their own wits is an entrepreneur. It's not about scale, greed, or world domination.

Yes, it is my opinion and I stand over it. :)

Many so-called (self-described?) ‘Entrepreneurs’ on this forum have the cushion of a 9 - 5 job to fall back on, so their business is more a hobby sideline than anything else. Somebody who opens a coffee bar or a web business and ekes a living out of it is not an entrepreneur, s/he is a person that took a chance opening a business.

Entrepreneurial spirit is betting your all, putting everything on the line. It is launching a venture to take advantage of an opportunity identified and risk-assessed solely by you the entrepreneur. It also applies to one bringing an idea/existing business to the next level. Opening another ‘me too’ coffeeshop or online sales site is not entrepreneurship. But creating a chain of coffee shops, or scaling-up a business is entrepreneurship. Having the cojones to realise a failure and pull the plug on a venture and then start over is entrepreneurship. Slaving away for 12 hours a day over years on a break-even coffee shop / whatever is not entrepreneurship.

Schumpeter (the topic’s main man to study in my era) found entrepreneurs are not primarily motivated by profit, they just regard it as a convenient yardstick to measure success/failure. They never stop …..look at Smurfit, O’Brien, Branson, Sugar, Dyson, etc., not one box factory/newspaper/radio station/vacuum cleaner, whatever.

But then, I don't do platitudes or PC:)