Dublin Public Transport Information

TBirdFrank

I have just spent my first full day wrestling with what passes for public transport information in Dublin.

My immediate question is how does the place exist with the total and utter lack of usable information provided for its poor users.

First we arrived from Belfast - so needed a visitor's Leap Card - can you buy them as you step off the Enterprise coming in from abroad? - oh no! You have to walk all the way to the Tourist Office on Upper O Connell St! What a welcome that was on a hot sweaty afternoon.

As our hotel is on Swords Road we asked which was the best bus to catch and were told the 33 or the 41 and given something called a map of core Dublin bus routes. What a desperately useless piece of paper that is. showing bus stop numbers but not the buses that stop at each unless you like playing crosswords and checking and validating information when what you really want to do is to catch a bus or a tram or a train, but with no knowledge of it's route or final destination!

Equally, once in the centre how do you find where the bus routes go and which stops they use to get you out of the central area? It's like mission impossible!

To finally add insult to injury we hit a LUAS strike. I am making no comments on the merits or demerits of the strike - but I am making comment on the appalling total and utter lack of human presence to offer advice and assistance. There was no-one and has been no-one in the information kiosk at Connolly since we arrived. What is it for? Why are there no route timetables available anywhere?

We need to be at Connolly in the morning by 10.00. It appears that there are a mere three trains in the preceding two hours - what's that about???

From what I have seen the city is long overdue a passengers' strike for better treatment and better information.

The fact that we can obtain and understand information from any other city in the world better than we can from Dublin is a joke and it is high time the management were told so!

Charles Babbage

While your point about the cards being on sale at the station is a valid one, you don't need a Leap card, you could just pay cash on the bus. And all of these maps and so forth are rather 20th century, most people just look at Google maps or an App.

TBirdFrank

Are you for real???

Pre-paid is easy, convenient, cheaper and doesn't wear holes in your pocket! You also don't have to keep finding the correct amount.

As for using Apps, Google etc - that is the curse of the modern generation who's arrogance is only exceeded by their ignorance.

How dare anyone assume that because the information is out there in the virtual world that every user can access it! It's exactly the kind of user that needs on site assistance that won't have access or aptitude to go internet. Dublin is a city full of visitors and they need something in their hand to familiarise themselves quickly. The internet won't, and in Eire's case, doesn't anyway.

I am repeatedly finding that what is on the internet is completely and utterly useless - route maps that won't pull up on a laptop - never mind an iphone, timetables that show no intermediate stops at all - as I said - deeply and completely useless to anyone but the most familiar of users - and they don't need it anyway!

Charles Babbage

TBirdFrank wrote: »

Are you for real???

Pre-paid is easy, convenient, cheaper and doesn't wear holes in your pocket! You also don't have to keep finding the correct amount.

By all means buy a Leap card, but after you had gone to your hotel as the 41 bus stop is on your way to the tourist office.

As for using Apps, Google etc - that is the curse of the modern generation who's arrogance is only exceeded by their ignorance.

If something is convenient, then use it.
If you loath the Internet, why are you posting here? Why not write a letter to the newspaper?

I am repeatedly finding that what is on the internet is completely and utterly useless - route maps that won't pull up on a laptop - never mind an iphone, timetables that show no intermediate stops at all - as I said - deeply and completely useless to anyone but the most familiar of users - and they don't need it anyway!

Dublin has real time passenger information, any limitations of the timetable are easily overcome.

devnull

TBirdFrank wrote: »

First we arrived from Belfast - so needed a visitor's Leap Card - can you buy them as you step off the Enterprise coming in from abroad? - oh no! You have to walk all the way to the Tourist Office on Upper O Connell St! What a welcome that was on a hot sweaty afternoon.

Leap cards can be purchased from Connolly but Visitor Leap Cannot, but can be at Ports and airports.

As our hotel is on Swords Road we asked which was the best bus to catch and were told the 33 or the 41 and given something called a map of core Dublin bus routes. What a desperately useless piece of paper that is. showing bus stop numbers but not the buses that stop at each unless you like playing crosswords and checking and validating information when what you really want to do is to catch a bus or a tram or a train, but with no knowledge of it's route or final destination!

Equally, once in the centre how do you find where the bus routes go and which stops they use to get you out of the central area? It's like mission impossible!

www.transportforireland.ie is your friend.

ED E

Cash is too oldfashioned and you insist on an NFC card and yet the internet for routing is too difficult? Ye northerners are a strange bunch....

BowWow

TBirdFrank wrote: »

we arrived from Belfast - can you buy them as you step off the Enterprise coming in from abroad?

Wouldn't regard coming from Belfast as coming from abroad:D

AngryLips

Transport for Ireland have a route finder app that's much more effective at helping you get from A to B compared to the Dublin Bus bus map (which is based on the same format as those used in London), plus there is free wifi on most public transport services including Enterprise if roaming charges were an issue. It's normal to feel frustrated with yourself when you haven't bothered to research your itinerary.

n97 mini

BowWow wrote: »

Wouldn't regard coming from Belfast as coming from abroad:D

A lot of people travelled via Belfast from GB.

OP I do agree. Without a smartphone (i.e. Google Maps) finding your way around Dublin is an impossibility. To make matters worse I've noticed a lot of Dublin Bus drivers who aren't "local" lack local knowledge of streets, places and routes and give tourists wrong or bad information.

I didn't look, but do the information signs at the Luas stops say "No service due to strike action" on strike days? I would be surprised if they did.

Amirani

TBirdFrank wrote: »

As for using Apps, Google etc - that is the curse of the modern generation who's arrogance is only exceeded by their ignorance.

I'm not sure you could be more ironic if you tried.

devnull

It was much worse years ago, a lot of bus stops were just a Dublin Bus logo with no route information or timetable information, there was no bus information in train stations, no real time info, there were no city maps or Tourist wayfinding signs, there was only one tourist office, there were no leap cards at all, there was no multi-mode journey planner, there was no apps of any kind, no transport for Ireland.

I'm not saying that it's perfect now but it's a hell of a lot better than even 5 years ago.

Carawaystick

TBirdFrank wrote: »

The fact that we can obtain and understand information from any other city in the world better than we can from Dublin is a joke and it is high time the management were told so!

Please provide some PT info from Pyongyang, Naypitaw, and Thimphu to confirm the above statement

pillphil

TBirdFrank wrote: »

Are you for real???

Pre-paid is easy, convenient, cheaper and doesn't wear holes in your pocket! You also don't have to keep finding the correct amount.

As for using Apps, Google etc - that is the curse of the modern generation who's arrogance is only exceeded by their ignorance.

How dare anyone assume that because the information is out there in the virtual world that every user can access it! It's exactly the kind of user that needs on site assistance that won't have access or aptitude to go internet. Dublin is a city full of visitors and they need something in their hand to familiarise themselves quickly. The internet won't, and in Eire's case, doesn't anyway.

I am repeatedly finding that what is on the internet is completely and utterly useless - route maps that won't pull up on a laptop - never mind an iphone, timetables that show no intermediate stops at all - as I said - deeply and completely useless to anyone but the most familiar of users - and they don't need it anyway!

Honestly, as a culchie, the only way to get around dublin on public transport is google maps. Pick your destination and public transport and it'll tell you everything you need, intermediate stops etc. I wouldn't rely on it too much for scheduled times though.
There is no information of worth at any bus stop except the ones with the time on them.

Dyr

One of the things I always note about dublin bus and all their route finding apps is they apparently believe that everyone wants to travel from a dublin bus stop to another dublin bus stop.

Staggeringly stupid.

steve-o

TBirdFrank wrote: »

As for using Apps, Google etc - that is the curse of the modern generation who's arrogance is only exceeded by their ignorance.

Despite excellent information being available online, you were either unwilling or unable to research your options before you travelled, yet it's the fault of arrogant and ignorant young people?
"I don't believe it".

devnull

Bambi wrote: »

One of the things I always note about dublin bus and all their route finding apps is they apparently believe that everyone wants to travel from a dublin bus stop to another dublin bus stop.

Staggeringly stupid.

That's why you should use the transport for Ireland one not the self serving Dublin Bus one.

spuddy

While things have improved on-line, there's no reason we shouldn't also improve off-line information too. I think to be fair to the OP, most of the points are valid.

1. Visitor leap cards available at major transport hubs? I agree
2. Clear route maps for Dublin Bus? Makes total sense
3. Not being able to find a member of CIE staff? Can well believe it

The above is common sense, and standard in most modern European cities. Dublin is fine, once you know where you're going... we should really make that as easy as possible for both Dublin's citizens & those who chose to spend their money holidaying here. (As a side note, there's a great Ted Talk from a German student who came to live in Dublin on this subject)

To the OP, we do make up for the lack of official information, with an abundance of the "unofficial" variety, most Dubliners will be more than happy to point you in the right direction. I hope you discovered that & got to where you were going in the end.

cdebru

BowWow wrote: »

Wouldn't regard coming from Belfast as coming from abroad:D

In fairness most people arriving from outside of Dublin, wouldn't have a leap card, they really should be on sale at Hueston and Connolly as well.

devnull

There is a big spider map and bus real time info display in connolly station near the ticket machines

Charles Babbage

Could you not have a machine dispensing visitor Leap cards at stations, ferry terminals, big hotels, museums etc?

LXFlyer

While there have been significant improvements in terms of the quality of information available, with the NTA journey planner and real time apps being the best examples, there is definitely a need to improve things further with:

1) Full public transport network maps both online and in paper
2) Schematic maps at bus stops for each route serving it
3) Spider maps at bus shelters showing the network of bus routes serving the area
4) Local street map at bus shelters


To the OP - you could have bought a normal LEAP card at Connolly Station from the ticket machines there and availed of the daily caps at no extra cost other than the €5 refundable deposit.

The Visitor LEAP card is still in its early days only being launched last year, and this year is the first time they've expanded its availability from just the Airport. Personally I think selling them on board Intercity trains to Dublin (via the catering trolley) would be a good idea, along with the ability to purchase online.

As others have pointed out the National Transport Authority have two excellent apps (National Journey Planner and Real Time) which will help anyone plan their journey. The Journey Planner app is an all-island one as well and will show a map for your journey.

In the concourse of both Heuston and Connolly Stations there are also spider maps showing the bus network from the stations and live real time information displays for said bus routes.

There are spider maps available online at the Transport for Ireland website:
https://www.transportforireland.ie/journey-planner/maps/

LXFlyer

cdebru wrote: »

In fairness most people arriving from outside of Dublin, wouldn't have a leap card, they really should be on sale at Hueston and Connolly as well.

Normal LEAP cards are available from the ticket machines in the stations.

Banjoxed

lxflyer wrote: »

Normal LEAP cards are available from the ticket machines in the stations.

Indeed. I can't see the advantage of trekking all the way to 59 O'Connell Street from Amiens Street for a Visitor Leap card. The standard one is perfectly usable.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

Normal LEAP cards are available from the ticket machines in the stations.

Tourists don't get told about that though.

A relative worked in a Spar near the Dublin Tourist Office. The DTO tells tourists to get a Visitor Leap Card and that Spar sell them. The staff in Spar tell the tourists that come in to go back to the DTO and tell them they don't sell them. Despite this it's a daily occurrence. Why doesn't the DTO itself sell them?

Personally I think the Visitor Leap Card should be scrapped as it's causing confusion combined with an idiotic lack of availability.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

Tourists don't get told about that though.

A relative worked in a Spar near the Dublin Tourist Office. The DTO tells tourists to get a Visitor Leap Card and that Spar sell them. The staff in Spar tell the tourists that come in to go back to the DTO and tell them they don't sell them. Despite this it's a daily occurrence. Why doesn't the DTO itself sell them?

Personally I think the Visitor Leap Card should be scrapped as it's causing confusion combined with an idiotic lack of availability.

The Tourist Offices on O'Connell Street and Suffolk Street do now sell them and it's also available from Dublin Bus on O'Connell Street as well as at the Spar/tourist information desks at the airport.

It should be available online to be honest.

Alun

n97 mini wrote: »

A relative worked in a Spar near the Dublin Tourist Office.

Which one? There are a multitude of Dublin Visitor/Tourist Office/Centre type establishments, many of which are just fronts for their own bus/coach sight seeing tours so probably wouldn't be inclined to sell tickets for a 'competitor'. I think the only 'official' one is the one in the old church on Suffolk Street isn't it?

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

While there have been significant improvements in terms of the quality of information available, with the NTA journey planner and real time apps being the best examples, there is definitely a need to improve things further with:

1) Full public transport network maps both online and in paper
2) Schematic maps at bus stops for each route serving it
3) Spider maps at bus shelters showing the network of bus routes serving the area
4) Local street map at bus shelters

Isn't a lot of this supposed to happen when TFI take control of on street information and timetable displays and poles at stops? They wrote a great document on this kind of stuff a few years ago but little has happened since, I assume because of issues with them and the operators in agreeing a format and trying to protect their own brands above the greater good?

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

Isn't a lot of this supposed to happen when TFI take control of on street information and timetable displays and poles at stops? They wrote a great document on this kind of stuff a few years ago but little has happened since, I assume because of issues with them and the operators in agreeing a format and trying to protect their own brands above the greater good?

Frustratingly like everything else involving public money it takes time to get this sort of thing rolled out - I don't think it's down to NTA -v- operators.

The rollout of new TfI bus stops has started in Cork on a pilot basis but there have already been issues with the wrong route numbers being placed on some of them, which doesn't bode well.

For some reason they've also gone with integral flags rather than using tiles like the DB ones, which is rather daft as it's far more inflexible.

Geuze

lxflyer wrote: »

While there have been significant improvements in terms of the quality of information available, with the NTA journey planner and real time apps being the best examples, there is definitely a need to improve things further with:

1) Full public transport network maps both online and in paper
2) Schematic maps at bus stops for each route serving it
3) Spider maps at bus shelters showing the network of bus routes serving the area
4) Local street map at bus shelters

We need all of these, ASAP.


Here are 7 maps of the London bus network, all pdfs.

https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/bus



Why can't Dublin have this?

devnull

Geuze wrote: »

We need all of these, ASAP.


Here are 7 maps of the London bus network, all pdfs.

https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/bus



Why can't Dublin have this?

See:
https://www.transportforireland.ie/journey-planner/maps/

The interactive route map function has a map showing every single route and stop.

LXFlyer

Geuze wrote: »

We need all of these, ASAP.


Here are 7 maps of the London bus network, all pdfs.

https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/bus



Why can't Dublin have this?

There are maps on the way I believe but progress is really slow.

Bray Head

OP is spot on.

Public transport is really off-putting for tourists in Dublin. Most posters in this forum can't see this because they are heavy users of the system and/or professionally involved in it. The main problem is the lack of a MAP of routes and stops.

Having parallel Dublin Bus and NTA route planners is completely bizarre too.

I was slightly involved in organizing the visit of a large group to Dublin recently. In the end we told them just to never attempt Dublin Bus at all due to the cost, slowness and potential for confusion. For a group of over 5 a 7-seater taxi is a better option for nearly every journey.

devnull

Bray Head wrote: »

OP is spot on.

Public transport is really off-putting for tourists in Dublin. Most posters in this forum can't see this because they are heavy users of the system and/or professionally involved in it. The main problem is the lack of a MAP of routes and stops.

It exists on Transport for Ireland website, every stop on every route is there.

The NTA should be providing everything and the operators should not be providing their own journey planner and own maps, but it is int he interest of state operators to have their own app, that they can control where they can control what is included in them. Unfortunately the transport operation is very much company focused rather than user focused.

For example, Dublin Bus route planner includes Dublin Bus, Luas and Irish Rail. The NTA one includes every private and public service in the state. Dublin Bus will not want to use the NTA one because it might suggest people to use other operators that would give them a more direct journey. This is all of the kind of politics that has to be dealt with, it's not as simple as knocking up an independent planner and forcing everyone to use it, everyone has their own interests at play here.

TBirdFrank

Well said Bray Head.

Once I leave my home country - off goes my roaming key as I do not want a nasty surprise when I return home.

Similarly I don't want to be walking round a strange city gawping aimlessly at my phone, laptop or whatever.

I have come to see the city and I do that best off a good informative map.You are quite correct - there is a mindset and an expectation as to the use of apps and digital intelligence that completely fails to understand the needs and aspirations of the user and comments such as "should have properly researched" and "its all available of the xx or yy app" are indicative of a complete lack of understanding of the user market - especially the tourist market.

What is needed is wider availability of the visitor leap card - at all main stations, ferryports etc, or on line; the availability to buy it for cash, and on collection to be given a map showing real bus, tram and train routes, not broad arrows showing where the main routes are but not what they do.

Its called customer service in short, and it is getting in short supply as suppliers try to rely on the provision of an internet only interface.

Dyr

devnull wrote: »

See:
https://www.transportforireland.ie/journey-planner/maps/

The interactive route map function has a map showing every single route and stop.

Straght off the 4 route information is looks wrong, it doesn't stop on westmoreland st/dolier st.

devnull

Bambi wrote: »

Straght off the 4 route information is looks wrong, it doesn't stop on westmoreland st/dolier st.

That's odd, it doesn't show like that for me.

Geuze

devnull wrote: »

See:
https://www.transportforireland.ie/journey-planner/maps/

The interactive route map function has a map showing every single route and stop.

Is it a printable pdf? I don't think so.

Is it posted at every bus stop?

Geuze

lxflyer wrote: »

There are maps on the way I believe but progress is really slow.

I hate to criticise, but all over Europe every city has these maps for the last 20 years...............


Also, what about a city street map, with transit routes overlaid?

Like this in Berlin?

http://fahrinfo.bvg.de/Fahrinfo/bin/query.bin/en?&ujm=1

Geuze

Or what about this map of Paris bus routes?

http://www.ratp.fr/informer/pdf/orienter/f_plan.php?loc=reseaux&nompdf=bus_paris&fm=gif

Vic_08

Geuze wrote: »

I hate to criticise, but all over Europe every city has these maps for the last 20 years...............


Also, what about a city street map, with transit routes overlaid?

Like this in Berlin?

http://fahrinfo.bvg.de/Fahrinfo/bin/query.bin/en?&ujm=1

Dublin Bus used to produce local area guides with maps and timetables, about 25 in total AFAIR, had a number of them in the letterbox over the years as well as them being available in the O'Connell street office. There was also a full fold out B/W osi map available with all routes marked similar to the one you linked.

Like it or not paper information is being used less and less in favour of online resources. Personally I prefer maps and timetables to journey planners any day but that is the way things are heading all over.

icdg

Anyone remember this thread?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=92395542

Two years later and I have yet to see any of it implemented. It's no use coming up with fancy documents if you leave them on a shelf rotting afterwards.

devnull

Geuze wrote: »

Is it a printable pdf? I don't think so.

Is it posted at every bus stop?

Yes there is an option to save as a pdf and printer friendly.

How can you put it at every bus stop? The thing is Dublin bus has a lot more routes and stops on its main streets than most cities. Other cities have them far more spread out than concentrated over a small number of city centre streets.

Spider maps are possible at each stop but showing each stop and location each bus serves is not possible when most routes have well over 50 stops some streets have 30 buses stopping at then. You would need a display size of a bus to show all that info in a print large enough to meet accessible regulations.

I agree information needs to be improved but you have to consider the operating environment too and the nature of bus service and operations in Dublin. In Germany you don't have so many stops on one street with the vast majority of routes all serving one street.

Theory is great but once you start trying to produce there things in a readable format with all the details you want on you will have very cluttered and ugly document which is confusing to road.

The fact that when Dublin bus did it. Hey had to use a huge fold out map is testament to that.

LXFlyer

Geuze wrote: »

I hate to criticise, but all over Europe every city has these maps for the last 20 years...............


Also, what about a city street map, with transit routes overlaid?

Like this in Berlin?

http://fahrinfo.bvg.de/Fahrinfo/bin/query.bin/en?&ujm=1

Why are you using the word "criticise" against my post?

I don't work for the NTA or Dublin Bus - I'm just reporting what I know about this.

anothernight

Bray Head wrote: »

OP is spot on.

Public transport is really off-putting for tourists in Dublin. Most posters in this forum can't see this because they are heavy users of the system and/or professionally involved in it. The main problem is the lack of a MAP of routes and stops.

I had to laugh at some of the replies. "What are you complaining about? All you needed to do is use [insert obscure unofficial workaround that only a long term resident and user of Dublin's transport would know about here]"


Very valid complaints OP. Unfortunately, if you visit Dublin again you will have to use the workarounds, as it's very unlikely that any improvements will be implemented in a reasonable timescale. That's just the way it is. Just count yourself lucky that you visited Dublin now and not 5-10 years ago... *shudders*

LXFlyer

To put some context on this:

Dublin Bus DID have an excellent full network map, based on an overlay of the OSI map of Dublin, and then published 20 individual local guides based on that map.

They also had extracts from that map on bus shelter panels.

Unfortunately they had to stop using those maps when OSI demanded high fees for using them.

They did then produce a network spider map.

Subsequently the Network Direct programme came along and there were so many changes happening so often that a network map would have been redundant as soon as it was published. The recession also didn't help as these things cost money.

Currently we are in a situation where there is a change process happening with the NTA driving things but like anything that involves spending public money it does take time.

Without going into more detail, from my own contact with both the NTA and DB I am aware that there are new maps currently being designed - both spider maps and a proper network map. But like anything it takes time. The prospect of tendering may also impact on this as from that point on there may be multiple operators.

I am also aware that the new design standards are being worked upon - they're not "sitting on a shelf", but neither the NTA nor Dublin Bus have armies of people to work on this kind of thing. It is being worked upon behind the scenes.

For the record I fully concur that we need ASAP:

1) A proper set of network maps - I'd split them into five sections, north east, north west, south west, south east and central, both as PDFs and printed files.

2) A spider network map

3) Spider maps showing the network from each local area on display on stops

4) A local street map for each stop

I'm also aware that all of that is a fairly mammoth task but I do believe we will see results later this year.

Long overdue but there will be improvements.

anothernight

The problem, as I see it, is that there's always something being worked on, something being changed, and it's always used as an excuse to not have a high quality service. Results should be judged by customer satisfaction, not how much effort is being put into the service.

Great to see that there will be improvements, but how many years has it been of Dublin being told that transport will be improved? It gets to a point where you stop believing it until it's there. Like Metro North/South/West/Flavourofthemonth.

LXFlyer

anothernight wrote: »

The problem, as I see it, is that there's always something being worked on, something being changed, and it's always used as an excuse to not have a high quality service. Results should be judged by customer satisfaction, not how much effort is being put into the service.

Great to see that there will be improvements, but how many years has it been of Dublin being told that transport will be improved? It gets to a point where you stop believing it until it's there. Like Metro North/South/West/Flavourofthemonth.

To be fair the level of change of routes during the Network Direct project was far in excess of what would even come close to normal.

I don't think it's fair to say that there haven't been improvements - there have, both in terms of information and service but they all tend to be incremental and maybe less noticeable.

The network direct project did deliver improvements in the form of more cross-city routes, clock face regular interval departures and improved integration.

We have RTPI, LEAP, a National Journey planner etc.

What we don't have is adequate mapping, and we should have had it before now. It has been a major gripe of mine, but it is coming.

anothernight

lxflyer wrote: »

To be fair the level of change of routes during the Network Direct project was far in excess of what would even come close to normal.

I don't think it's fair to say that there haven't been improvements - there have, both in terms of information and service but they all tend to be incremental and maybe less noticeable.

The network direct project did deliver improvements in the form of more cross-city routes, clock face regular interval departures and improved integration.

We have RTPI, LEAP, a National Journey planner etc.

What we don't have is adequate mapping, and we should have had it before now. It has been a major gripe of mine, but it is coming.

Oh I agree with what you said! (Except for RTPI and LEAP issues but that's a topic for another thread)

There's been improvements, but nothing of the scale that is needed.

That's not what I'm talking about though. It's the attitude of "things will get better, promise" that crops up when customer dissatisfaction becomes more visible that I have an issue with. In a private company, if the service becomes very bad because of behind the scenes work, the company doesn't survive. It's all well and good to say that there's reasons for the things that don't work, but at the end of the day, having reasons and excuses doesn't make the customer happy. The OP won't find his way around Dublin by being told there's changes coming up, for example. In the many years I lived in Dublin that seemed to be the prevailing attitude from service providers, which is why I don't believe any of their announced changes until they are ready and well implemented.

LXFlyer

anothernight wrote: »

Oh I agree with what you said! (Except for RTPI and LEAP issues but that's a topic for another thread)

There's been improvements, but nothing of the scale that is needed.

That's not what I'm talking about though. It's the attitude of "things will get better, promise" that crops up when customer dissatisfaction becomes more visible that I have an issue with. In a private company, if the service becomes very bad because of behind the scenes work, the company doesn't survive. It's all well and good to say that there's reasons for the things that don't work, but at the end of the day, having reasons and excuses doesn't make the customer happy. The OP won't find his way around Dublin by being told there's changes coming up, for example. In the many years I lived in Dublin that seemed to be the prevailing attitude from service providers, which is why I don't believe any of their announced changes until they are ready and well implemented.

No but ranting about it as nauseum won't get it done any faster either.

Unfortunately this kind of stuff is micro-level and does take time to produce as it requires design, checking, rechecking several times. It's not something that happens quickly.

But I am aware that it is being worked on at the moment - that is a step forward.

anothernight

Whoosh.

LXFlyer

anothernight wrote: »

Whoosh.

I'm not saying the OP is ranting - he's quite right - but it's still not going to make these happen any faster!

I'm not in the habit of posting stuff here unless I'm fairly sure that it's right, and in this case I am pretty certain from the contact that I made myself that this will happen.