looking for bank statements and private info

MarkAnthony

Mr.S wrote: »

I'd more be worried about how they are handling the data tbh.

A bit like asking for credit card info for a hotel booking over email etc.

A LL requesting proof of continued employment and a recent payslip (with everything bar your name and final take home pay blacked out) should be enough for them. Loan repayments and disposable income?! :rolleyes:

A recent payslip doesn't allow the LL to check to see If rent has been paid regularly at the previous tenancy. Why is this important? References can be solicited to get rid of a problem tenant, or completely fabricated.

It also allows the LL to get an idea if the tenant is in good overall financial shape. Given how difficult it is to evict, one can understand why some want this. Again a proper credit referencing system would avoid so many problems on both sides in this country.

murphaph

Maireadio wrote: »

What happens if no prospective tenants supplies this stuff? Or one does? You may not get the best one at all. I suppose three months deposit might be an indicator. Or someone might just get a loan of their folks to cover it and it may not be an indicator at all. Things might be tough in Dublin renting-wise, but I've seen among my own friends that the ones with the most secure and/or better paying jobs still have people accommodating them. Given a choice, nobody is going to go for the one that is looking for far more rent up front and will be wasting the time of people they work for/with. Until there is a third party system here, nobody is going to happen handing over that much money as a deposit.

3 months is absolutely standard in Germany and there are plenty of small time landlords here too. It's moving this way in Ireland. 6 weeks is common enough now. I've seen 2 months asked for on several ads in the past. This is the result of a system that makes it far to difficult to remove problem tenants.

MarkAnthony

murphaph wrote: »

3 months is absolutely standard in Germany and there are plenty of small time landlords here too. It's moving this way in Ireland. 6 weeks is common enough now. I've seen 2 months asked for on several ads in the past. This is the result of a system that makes it far to difficult to remove problem tenants.

It's a shame that unfurnished long terms lets aren't expected here. I'd do that in a heartbeat.

3 months deposit would be enough to just about cover a total refurb of a kitchen/bathroom if required. Laminate floors are a) almost impossible to destroy and b) cheap to replace and lost rent can be recovered against tax.

From the renters point of view they're going to be able to furnish the place to a decent standard rather than the Ikea or worse crap most places are furnished with.

3 months is a lot of money for many people, a lot just won't have that sort of money lying around and a lot of those who do won't want handing it over to a LL who may never return it. Can't see anything more than the norm of one months rent and one months rent as deposit being asked for in most cases as most won't supply it.

What's really needed is a way for LL's to quickly and efficiently evict non-paying or troulesome tenants and for tenants who owe money having it forcibly taken from them be it taken from their wages or their dole.

athtrasna

Mod note

Can we get back on topic please. This thread has nothing to do with government policies or the other detours off topic it has taken recently.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

testicles wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I don't think it's excessive if personal info is not shown. Print off income statement showing you have the finance to pay. A landlord is running a business and needs to protect him/herself. Protection is very much in favour of tenants as it is.

If you don't want to give this info then just move onto the next property. LL should be allowed ask for some info within reason. Dob is a strange ask.

R.D. aka MR.D

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

The supply of properties has dwindled and demand has soared. Landlords have every right to do their utmost to weed out potential problem tenants. I think that I would look to see bank statements, speak with the tenant's HR department, and look for at least three month's rent as a deposit. Everything to mitigate the risk of having a problem tenant basically.

What do you think gives a landlord the right to start interfering with a tenants professional life? A reference is one thing, something that can be handled once and quickly by your manager/HR/boss but repeated phonecalls from landlords?
That's absolute madness.

Shawn Michaels

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

What do you think gives a landlord the right to start interfering with a tenants professional life? A reference is one thing, something that can be handled once and quickly by your manager/HR/boss but repeated phonecalls from landlords?
That's absolute madness.

It's a sellers' market and choosing the wrong tenant can have dire consequences because of the ludicrous laws in this country. A landlord should do as detailed a due diligence as possible.

MarkAnthony

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

What do you think gives a landlord the right to start interfering with a tenants professional life? A reference is one thing, something that can be handled once and quickly by your manager/HR/boss but repeated phonecalls from landlords?
That's absolute madness.

I don't think a quick call in to HR to verify a written reference is any great imposition. Granted if they want multiple contracts or use that information subsequently I'd side with the tenant, but if you're renting these are prudent checks and similar to the ones done when purchasing.

While I appreciate it's not purchasing a property I think tenants underestimate the seriousness of the contractual arrangement they're entering into. The potential is that one could ruin a LL financially in the current climate.

DivingDuck

Considering that it's now against the law to discriminate on the ground of employment status, are landlords even allowed to ask for employment references anymore, much less contact the employers of prospective tenants?

MarkAnthony

DivingDuck wrote: »

Considering that it's now against the law to discriminate on the ground of employment status, are landlords even allowed to ask for employment references anymore, much less contact the employers of prospective tenants?

They're not allowed to discriminate on the basis of the person being in receipt of social welfare, as long as the candidates are treated the same there are no grounds for a potential discrimination case. In fact, one could argue that bank statements are requested in lieu of employment references to ensure equal treatment.

R.D. aka MR.D

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I don't think a quick call in to HR to verify a written reference is any great imposition. Granted if they want multiple contracts or use that information subsequently I'd side with the tenant, but if you're renting these are prudent checks and similar to the ones done when purchasing.

While I appreciate it's not purchasing a property I think tenants underestimate the seriousness of the contractual arrangement they're entering into. The potential is that one could ruin a LL financially in the current climate.

Not everyone works in a company that has a dedicated HR dept. In my particular case it would be a massive imposition on my already extremely busy manager to be receiving calls about what is essential my private life.

Fkall

testicles wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Why would it be illegal?

The landlord or his agent can ask for whatever information he likes to make a determination. It is your choice whether or not to give it to him.

Shawn Michaels

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Not everyone works in a company that has a dedicated HR dept. In my particular case it would be a massive imposition on my already extremely busy manager to be receiving calls about what is essential my private life.

But it's a sellers' market, so the prospective tenant's feelings (or his/her manager's feelings) are a moot point.

MarkAnthony

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Not everyone works in a company that has a dedicated HR dept. In my particular case it would be a massive imposition on my already extremely busy manager to be receiving calls about what is essential my private life.

Them's the brakes I'm afraid. If there is no dedicated HR function it has to fall somewhere else and if that's your line manager he or she has to understand that people need employment references for things.

While I can, to a certain extent, see the issue with bank statements it's entirely another matter to check employment references and certainly if the bank statement avenue isn't available or leaves a question an employment reference is entirely reasonable even when it was a renters market.

R.D. aka MR.D

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Them's the brakes I'm afraid. If there is no dedicated HR function it has to fall somewhere else and if that's your line manager he or she has to understand that people need employment references for things.

While I can, to a certain extent, see the issue with bank statements it's entirely another matter to check employment references and certainly if the bank statement avenue isn't available or leaves a question an employment reference is entirely reasonable even when it was a renters market.

I understand that employment references are fair enough, I have one stating my salary and all that. However, letting agents are asking to verify all this information before they will even consider you as a tenant. It would be a different story if the landlord said 'I'm ready to sign the lease but I just have to contact your workplace first.' I've been to over 10 viewings in the past week or so, there is no way that I would want my manager bothered 10 times without any good reason.

I think the issue for many people is that it boils down to what is being done with the information. In my case, I'm simply not willing to throw my managers number around to anybody.

And yes, I'm aware it's a landlord's market at the minute but I'm not one of these people who believe that landlord's are bad people. Two of my own family members are landlords. But I think it's a step to far to be interfering with a person's working environment. In my opinion, it's unreasonable but hey, I'll probably be homeless for the rest of my days despite the fact that I could pay 12months rent in advance simply because I'm unwilling to risk my position at work by pissing off my manager.

boundlessSea

It is unreasonable to request contact details for an employer unless the property owner has agreed that he will let the property pending the reference being acceptable, having a third party ring one's employer is invasive, and creates extra work for ones employer.

Maybe a copy of the last few months pay slips with the actual info on pay blotted out might be acceptable instead of a reference.

MarkAnthony

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

I understand that employment references are fair enough, I have one stating my salary and all that. However, letting agents are asking to verify all this information before they will even consider you as a tenant. It would be a different story if the landlord said 'I'm ready to sign the lease but I just have to contact your workplace first.' I've been to over 10 viewings in the past week or so, there is no way that I would want my manager bothered 10 times without any good reason.

I take your point there in all fairness. If you've a written cert only one call for verification should be required at the point of offer.

Maireadio

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I don't think a quick call in to HR to verify a written reference is any great imposition.

Imagine if the landlords of all the places the prospective tenant viewed rang the HR department? Those five to ten minute phone calls add up and take from the firm's actual business. What an annoyance. And as said, it might not even be HR if the firm is small. Mentally, a unconscious bias against that employee might be formed.

MarkAnthony

Maireadio wrote: »

Imagine if the landlords of all the places the prospective tenant viewed rang the HR department? Those five to ten minute phone calls add up and take from the firm's actual business. What an annoyance. And as said, it might not even be HR if the firm is small. Mentally, a unconscious bias against that employee might be formed.

You might read the post above.

dr.fuzzenstein

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

But it's a sellers' market, so the prospective tenant's feelings (or his/her manager's feelings) are a moot point.

Its no problem really, "genuine" bank statements, references, etc can all be printed off in 5 minutes, and as for my HR managers personal mobile phone number, I have a very good friend who is a great phone wind up merchant and he can pretend to be almost anything from a gard to a solicitor and I'm sure HR manager will be in his repertoire. <snip >

Graham

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

as for my HR managers personal mobile phone number, I have a very good friend who is a great phone wind up merchant and he can pretend to be almost anything

I can't imagine why landlords are asking for more and more in the way of background checks.....

dr.fuzzenstein

Graham wrote: »

I can't imagine why landlords are asking for more and more in the way of background checks.....

To the point where it simply is too much and an honest person doesn't actually have a chance to compile the 64000 pages of information required.

Shawn Michaels

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Its no problem really, "genuine" bank statements, references, etc can all be printed off in 5 minutes, and as for my HR managers personal mobile phone number, I have a very good friend who is a great phone wind up merchant and he can pretend to be almost anything from a gard to a solicitor and I'm sure HR manager will be in his repertoire.

Which is why one should insist on a landline number, and certified copies of documents.

murphaph

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I take your point there in all fairness. If you've a written cert only one call for verification should be required at the point of offer.

Speaking as a landlord I wouldn't have the time to go to ringing every applicant's employer. You pick the best apparent applicant from their manner and documentation and then verify that person, using contact details you find yourself. I would not rely on the phone number provided by an applicant. Friends have been known to fabricate references for others.

Shawn Michaels

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

Which is why one should insist on a landline number, and certified copies of documents.

The bank don't even ask for certified copies of documents when applying for a mortgage so do you really think people will do it for a LL in a place they will rent for a year or two probably.

Bank statements are a private document anyway so you should have no right to even ask to see one.

Graham

murphaph wrote: »

You pick the best apparent applicant from their manner and documentation and then verify that person

As would most sensible landlords.

Barely Hedged

Danica Obedient Pinprick wrote: »

The bank don't even ask for certified copies of documents when applying for a mortgage so do you really think people will do it for a LL in a place they will rent for a year or two probably.

Bank statements are a private document anyway so you should have no right to even ask to see one.

Maybe because you bank with them? I'm with AIB and they didn't ask for certified documents because they could cross reference. When I went with UB they wanted official bank statements from AIB. Internet banking wouldn't wash.

Private document. Tone down the hyperbole and realise that you're an adult entering into a legal agreement that carries financial risk for both parties. How else would this financial risk be minimised objectively and independently.

Graham

I think there are some posters to this thread who have no experience of the strength of competition for rental properties in some parts of the country.

It's all very well saying I wouldn't give them this, or show them that, or I'd use a mate as a reference. The reality of the situation wouldn't strike home until you're facing impending homelessness after viewing the 10th property behind a queue of a dozen other prospective tenants many of which are armed with everything the agent has asked for, some of whom are offering above the asking rent.

By all means stick to your principles. If you're not happy providing any requested information then don't provide it, just be aware that it's likely to take you much longer to find accommodation in a high-demand area if you're effectively ruling yourself out of many potential rentals.

Cork2015!

I think asking for a bank statement is insane and don't know who the heck the landlord thinks they are!

Of course asking for additional info/documentation... no problem (especially if you really want the house)

Surely something like a letter from work i.e. Joe has worked here for 4 years and is in a permanent role etc would be more sufficient.

People are very quick to ask for bank statements these days and in my opinion a bank statement is the VERY LAST documentation that I would hand over to ANYONE unless it was for a mortgage application etc.