looking for bank statements and private info

_Kaiser_

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

The last time I rented out my property, 30 people wanted it. Some offered more money than I was asking.

I looked for the following:

- 3 month's rent as a deposit
- 3 month's bank statements dated within the last six months
- 3 most recent credit card statement
- 3 most recent payslips
- Written reference from employer
- Landline number to speak with the employer
- Salary certs from the employer
- Written reference from previous landlord
- A copy of the previous tenancy's PRTB registration
- A copy of their savings account or credit union statement
- A copy of an up to date (i.e. within the last month) ICB credit report

10 people were able to provide all of the above. I met them all and interviewed them all. I went for the ones who came across best and indicated that they wanted a multiyear tenancy. I am delighted with my tenants.

I was just being prudent with my asset, which is worth a lot of money.

I'd just move on to the next property myself.. not a chance would I entertain that sort of "request" from someone who I don't know from Adam.

For all I know you're up to your neck with the mortgage or other debts and I could be turfed out by the bank a few months later.

Equally I could give you all that info and be laid off next month and say nothing, or splash out on a new car on PCP that I can't really afford.

Get the point? Both sides need an element of trust for a LL/tenant relationship to work. By your "demands" you're already inferring that I am some sort of delinquent that you need protection against.

I'd rather move further out than put up with that sort of thing myself.

Bob24

murphaph wrote: »

This is not really quantifiable but let's try. A single mortgage to a bank may represent a tiny fraction of a percent of their business. A single let property may represent 100% of a landlord's business. A non-paying tenant can quite easily financially ruin a landlord. A single defaulting mortgage is unlikely to ruin a bank. But you think the bank has more right to ask for a bank statement. I find this curious.

A bank is putting a lot more money on the table in absolute value. All I was saying.

And I fully agree evicting bad tenants should be easier and it shouldn't be a private landlord's responsibility to cater for antisocial individuals. What I am questioning is whether making the leasing process more and more complex is the right answer from society (being from France myself were the law is way more on the side of tenants than it is in Ireland, I know where this spiral leads: eventually it will become impossible for some honest tenants to rent property within the legal framework because what landlords will be asking for will simply impossible for them to provide).

murphaph wrote: »

Seeing as others are throwing out anecdotal evidence of this and that, here's mine....I applied for a current account with BoI about 10 years ago. I realised afterwards that I was missing my passport, which I'd used to identify myself in the branch. I went back and sure enough they'd forgotten to give it back to me in the envelope of documents I'd handed them to photocopy. My passport was still in the photocopier in a publically accesable area of the branch. Data protection you say?

3 things:
- one employee of an organisation making a mistake is very different from an individual constantly not caring.
- as I said the bank's business is clearly regulated: you know exactly what to expect in terms of how they should handle your data, and if you feel they have failed their legal obligations you can get help from their regulator.
- Back to your specific example, I would have had a problem with that but clearly I prefer my passport to be on the banks photocopier for a few minutes than indefinitely in a pile of rubbish publicly available to anyone. So to me your example does not compare.

Cork2015!

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

The last time I rented out my property, 30 people wanted it. Some offered more money than I was asking.

I looked for the following:

- 3 month's rent as a deposit
- 3 month's bank statements dated within the last six months
- 3 most recent credit card statement
- 3 most recent payslips
- Written reference from employer
- Landline number to speak with the employer
- Salary certs from the employer
- Written reference from previous landlord
- A copy of the previous tenancy's PRTB registration
- A copy of their savings account or credit union statement
- A copy of an up to date (i.e. within the last month) ICB credit report

10 people were able to provide all of the above. I met them all and interviewed them all. I went for the ones who came across best and indicated that they wanted a multiyear tenancy. I am delighted with my tenants.

I was just being prudent with my asset, which is worth a lot of money.

And another point... if the tenant you selected had turned around and asked you for:

YOUR bank account statements so they could see if you had enough money for repairs etc.
YOUR savings account statement so they could see you have a nest egg in case something big goes
A copy of your credit report
Letter from bank to prove that you own the house and are up to date with mortgage payments
Tax clearance cert from revenue
etc etc

Would you have obliged? just out of pure curiosity (honestly don't mean anything bad.. I am just genuinely curious)

_Kaiser_

Cork2015! wrote: »

And another point... if the tenant you selected had turned around and asked you for:

YOUR bank account statements so they could see if you had enough money for repairs etc.
YOUR savings account statement so they could see you have a nest egg in case something big goes
A copy of your credit report
Letter from bank to prove that you own the house and are up to date with mortgage payments
Tax clearance cert from revenue
etc etc

Would you have obliged? just out of pure curiosity (honestly don't mean anything bad.. I am just genuinely curious)

Of course not... it's a landlord's market/they're protecting their asset/it's none of the tenant's business - all things that have been thrown out in the course of this thread.

The rental sector is already rife with troublemaking tenants and landlords who think it's a matter of "stick property on daft, get tenant in.. PROFIT", but in my experience of renting (both in Dublin and outside it) these situations are NOT as common as this forum would have you believe... after all, we only hear about the problems here. The many tens of thousands of tenants (or LLs) who have no problems, don't create threads on Boards about it

YES problem tenants should be dealt with swiftly and effectively, but equally LL's who refuse their obligations need to be addressed too. The PRTB is useless by all accounts as even if a verdict is made, it's virtually unenforceable anyway.

But random Landlords/other private citizens demanding invasive personal information and financial records from prospective tenants without in turn offering them any sort of security beyond "your word" - even though theirs isn't good enough! - doesn't wash with me.

Shawn Michaels

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

The last time I rented out my property, 30 people wanted it. Some offered more money than I was asking.

I looked for the following:

- 3 month's rent as a deposit
- 3 month's bank statements dated within the last six months
- 3 most recent credit card statement
- 3 most recent payslips
- Written reference from employer
- Landline number to speak with the employer
- Salary certs from the employer
- Written reference from previous landlord
- A copy of the previous tenancy's PRTB registration
- A copy of their savings account or credit union statement
- A copy of an up to date (i.e. within the last month) ICB credit report

10 people were able to provide all of the above. I met them all and interviewed them all. I went for the ones who came across best and indicated that they wanted a multiyear tenancy. I am delighted with my tenants.

I was just being prudent with my asset, which is worth a lot of money.

I'd sleep under a bridge before I would hand over most of what's on that list to a potential LL. That's more than the bank is asking me applying for a mortgage.

What has savings accounts and credit cards got to do with renting a place? Why is the PRTB registration relevant (none of the places I've rented have been registered). Why would I want a LL knowing what I earn so they can up the rent?

From me you would get the previous LL's reference or contact number, employers reference and HR phone number and one months deposit. If that wasn't good enough then I'd simply walk away.

Reading this sort of crap is making me even more determined to buy asap and thankful all the places I've houseshared haven't even asked for a previous LLs reference never mind anything else.

awec

No chance I would ever give any landlord salary details. Bank statements showing salary (with amount redacted and all other line items redacted of course) sure, reference letters from old landlords and employers sure.

Whatever about all the rest, giving that info is just setting yourself up to be screwed next time your rent is up for review. Asking for this information is incredibly unprofessional.

And as for things like savings accounts and credit cards, well that's just being nosy really. No justification whatsoever, never mind walk I'd run a mile from any individual who thought this information was any of their business. This has nothing to do with protecting their asset, this is just a nosy individual on a power trip looking to know how much they can take you for.

Shawn Michaels

Cork2015! wrote: »

And another point... if the tenant you selected had turned around and asked you for:

YOUR bank account statements so they could see if you had enough money for repairs etc.
YOUR savings account statement so they could see you have a nest egg in case something big goes
A copy of your credit report
Letter from bank to prove that you own the house and are up to date with mortgage payments
Tax clearance cert from revenue
etc etc

Would you have obliged? just out of pure curiosity (honestly don't mean anything bad.. I am just genuinely curious)

No, I wouldn't...not that I'd have any issue per se, but I don't have to.

Bob24

awec wrote: »

Asking for this information is incredibly unprofessional.

I think this is key. People happily saying her they are asking for all that information are individuals landlords who are acting in a unprofessional manner (and can get away with it because they are small and not visible).

I doubt a large enough and well established letting agent would ever consider doing the same thing as first they would know many of the documents listed here are irrelevant and a waste of time and second it would be a potential threat to their businesses as they are much more visible and potentially more vulnerable that isolated private landlords both from a legal and a business reputation's perspective.

Maireadio

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

The last time I rented out my property, 30 people wanted it. Some offered more money than I was asking.

I looked for the following:

- 3 month's rent as a deposit
- 3 month's bank statements dated within the last six months
- 3 most recent credit card statement
- 3 most recent payslips
- Written reference from employer
- Landline number to speak with the employer
- Salary certs from the employer
- Written reference from previous landlord
- A copy of the previous tenancy's PRTB registration
- A copy of their savings account or credit union statement
- A copy of an up to date (i.e. within the last month) ICB credit report

10 people were able to provide all of the above. I met them all and interviewed them all. I went for the ones who came across best and indicated that they wanted a multiyear tenancy. I am delighted with my tenants.

I was just being prudent with my asset, which is worth a lot of money.

I'm not sure I believe any of this. Savings account statements?

iainBB

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

The last time I rented out my property, 30 people wanted it. Some offered more money than I was asking.

I looked for the following:

- 3 month's rent as a deposit
- 3 month's bank statements dated within the last six months
- 3 most recent credit card statement
- 3 most recent payslips
- Written reference from employer
- Landline number to speak with the employer
- Salary certs from the employer
- Written reference from previous landlord
- A copy of the previous tenancy's PRTB registration
- A copy of their savings account or credit union statement
- A copy of an up to date (i.e. within the last month) ICB credit report

10 people were able to provide all of the above. I met them all and interviewed them all. I went for the ones who came across best and indicated that they wanted a multiyear tenancy. I am delighted with my tenants.

I was just being prudent with my asset, which is worth a lot of money.

I love this. . . Thank you , I will be asking for most of the above when its that time of year again.

The reason for the above is to secure the asset against loss and the the lack of government legislation in this area has lead to us being here.

Maireadio

iainBB wrote: »

I love this. . . Thank you , I will be asking for most of the above when its that time of year again.

The reason for the above is to secure the asset against loss and the the lack of government legislation in this area has lead to us being here.

I honestly don't know whether that list is believable. Whatever about a current account statement (which in itself seems to meet a lot of resistance), the above list will scare away most good tenants and leave just the desperados. I can't think many people would happily turn over a savings account statement and many would be also be wary of providing a work phone number too.

There is such a thing as over-egging the pudding, and the above list is it.

syklops

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

The last time I rented out my property, 30 people wanted it. Some offered more money than I was asking.

I looked for the following:

- 3 month's rent as a deposit
- 3 month's bank statements dated within the last six months
- 3 most recent credit card statement
- 3 most recent payslips
- Written reference from employer
- Landline number to speak with the employer
- Salary certs from the employer
- Written reference from previous landlord
- A copy of the previous tenancy's PRTB registration
- A copy of their savings account or credit union statement
- A copy of an up to date (i.e. within the last month) ICB credit report

10 people were able to provide all of the above. I met them all and interviewed them all. I went for the ones who came across best and indicated that they wanted a multiyear tenancy. I am delighted with my tenants.

I was just being prudent with my asset, which is worth a lot of money.

What if they don't have a credit card or a credit union account? Were they automatically disqualified?
Why did you want a salary cert and 3 payslips?
What if they redacted part of their bank statements so you couldnt see what they were spending their money on? Were they disqualified there as well?

Maireadio

Mr.S wrote: »

I'm sure some people will jump through hoops from you though!

Apparently, they already did. :rolleyes: Apparently.

OldNotWIse

Mr.S wrote: »

No rental is worth that effort imo.

Credit card statements and savings? :rolleyes:

The ICB report is comical.

I'm sure some people will jump through hoops from you though!

It's as if they are providing some form of charity instead of a business. tenants are supposed to be delighted that landlords allow them to give them money every month so they can cover their mortgages.

I gave up on renting a good while ago, I was sick of feeling under a compliment to LL's. I feel sorry for people who have to rent now.

Graham

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I gave up on renting a good while ago, I was sick of feeling under a compliment to LL's.

For many(most) renters that's just not an option so they are faced with little choice but to agree to provide increasing amounts of background information.

You can't really blame a landlord for trying to protect his/her investment given the limited/expensive/long-winded protection they have at their disposal but at the same time I would agree some of the requests are clearly excessive and in some circumstances downright illegal.

OldNotWIse

Graham wrote: »

For many(most) renters that's just not an option so they are faced with little choice but to agree to provide increasing amounts of background information.

You can't really blame a landlord for trying to protect his/her investment given the limited/expensive/long-winded protection they have at their disposal but at the same time I would agree some of the requests are clearly excessive and in some circumstances downright illegal.

I know!:(

Maireadio

Graham wrote: »

For many(most) renters that's just not an option so they are faced with little choice but to agree to provide increasing amounts of background information.

And the list above is completely taking advantage of that and is, as said, hugely unprofessional.

Demand is high, yes, but I'd move farther out rather to provide that piss-taking amount of information. And I think many others would too. Potentially good tenants too. It's not all about who has the healthiest bank balance. That doesn't preclude someone from being a pig, and former landlord references are easily made up to cover that up.

Shawn Michaels

Yes. So I know that they can cover the rent if they lose their job. And equally so I can weed out short term renters who will buy in the near future.

My tenant and I have a great relationship and I consider myself an excellent landlord. I charge below market rent and I'm happy to do so for the right person. I don't increase the rent in line with the market. And any issues are dealt with immediately. The place is immaculate - I would not rent out a property to someone that I wouldn't live in myself.

So the person who jumps through my hoops ends up with a fantastic outcome.

Graham

Maireadio wrote: »

And the list above is completely taking advantage of that and is, as said, hugely unprofessional.

Demand is high, yes, but I'd move farther out rather to provide that piss-taking amount of information. And I think many others would too. Potentially good tenants too. It's not all about who has the healthiest bank balance. That doesn't preclude someone from being a pig, and former landlord references are easily made up to cover that up.

It's good that you have the option to move further out, for people that want/need to be close to work, schools etc that's often not an option.

btw, nobody suggested it was about the healthiest bank balance. I'd suggest it's more about risk-reduction on the part of the landlords.

Maireadio

Graham wrote: »

It's good that you have the option to move further out, for people that want/need to be close to work, schools etc that's often not an option.

People need to be near schools, yes, but nobody has to live near their place of work. People might want to but I doubt many people want it so badly that they'll hand over that ridiculous amount of personal information. I don't believe 10 people provided that poster with all that information, it lacks credibility.

testaccount123

Shawn Michaels wrote: »

So the person who jumps through my hoops ends up with a fantastic outcome.

He also ends up with a tenancy which has a landlord who plays it fast and loose with the law. No thanks.

Graham

Maireadio wrote: »

People need to be near schools, yes, but nobody has to live near their place of work.

You might not need to live close to work but I know plenty of people that work unsociable hours or are on call who either don't drive or don't have a car.

It's very easy for people to say they wouldn't provide any type of information they feel is excessive. Until they have no choice, or until they realise the alternative is even less palatable.

Maireadio

Graham wrote: »

It's very easy for people to say they wouldn't provide any type of information they feel is excessive. Until they have no choice, or until they realise the alternative is even less palatable.

If everyone refuses to provide all that information, then we're back to square one. And personally I hope people do push back. Like I said, the best tenants might not be the ones to provide it. So you find someone who gives you the information, but are they who you want?

Graham

Maireadio wrote: »

If everyone refuses to provide all that information, then we're back to square one. And personally I hope people do push back.

That might be the case, I doubt it's ever going to happen though. It's going to take outside factors to change things.

Parchment

I have never been asked for this documentation by a LL. I personally wouldnt be happy handing it over to one either but i can see the LL side of things too.

But its a step too far for me.

Shawn Michaels

Mr.S wrote: »

Why 3 months deposit though If you have all these other proof of being a great tenant, I don't see the reason for such a big deposit?

Also explain the ICB report, what exactly would you look for? What if they have no credit history, is that a nono?

Because trouble costs more than a month's rent.

To identify people who default on debts. No entries would be fine.

Landlords are asking for this for the simple reason that if they end up with a rogue tenant it will cost them tens of thousands of euro.
At least two years to get the property back, loads of legal fees, stress and repairs to do.
If rogue tenants could be evicted easily, then there would be much less incentive to be ultra cautious when vetting tenants.

So many of Irelands problems are down to out inefficient and dysfunctional legal system.

beauf

I would be interesting if the LL refused a tenant because they wouldn't supply the details. Then if challenged did they discriminate based on this information the LL could say he can't retain the information that this decision was based on.

beauf

Mr.S wrote: »

Insurance?

http://www.theaa.ie/aa/insurance/landlord-insurance.aspx
https://www.allianz.ie/home-insurance/buy_to_let/

Graham

beauf wrote: »

I would be interesting if the LL refused a tenant because they wouldn't supply the details. Then if challenged did they discriminate based on this information the LL could say he can't retain the information that this decision was based on.

If the tenant didn't provide the details how would the landlord have been able to discriminate at all based on them?