Jose Mourinho, the new manager of Manchester United

RobertKK · 28-05-2016 7:20pm

CSF wrote: »

Ok, I'll bite. When people talk about history they're usually talking about great teams, elite European trophies, finals, special players that shaped the world.

You just talked about Munich. I didn't want to reply directly to that because I don't want to be disrespectful to that but it doesn't make United a bigger or more prestigious club than Real or Barca.

I did mention winning a European Cup 10 years after that disaster, was that not a trophy?

Iused2likebusts · 28-05-2016 7:23pm

The best players want to play for the biggest clubs. I'll go with Zidane, both ronaldos, Ronaldinho, Messi and Figo on this one.

28-05-2016 7:25pm

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

The best players want to play for the biggest clubs. I'll go with Zidane, both ronaldos, Ronaldinho, Messi and Figo on this one.

English teams are a stepping stone for a lot of top players.

Or retirement homes for top players in the twilight of their careers

Billy86 · 28-05-2016 7:30pm

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

The best players want to play for the biggest clubs. I'll go with Zidane, both ronaldos, Ronaldinho, Messi and Figo on this one.

I don't know how to break this to you, but Zidane nor Cristiano ever played for Barca, and Ronaldinho nor Messi have ever played for Real.

Meanwhile, Cristiano has played for Man Utd, as has Bobby Charlton and George Best.

Nalz · 28-05-2016 7:31pm

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

The best players want to play for the biggest clubs. I'll go with Zidane, both ronaldos, Ronaldinho, Messi and Figo on this one.

Would rather had Roy Keane or Peter Schmeichel than Figo tbh. Suarez over Ronaldinho maybe.

CSF · 28-05-2016 7:31pm

RobertKK wrote: »

I did mention winning a European Cup 10 years after that disaster, was that not a trophy?

Yeah but it's just the 1. You go through the European trophy cabinet, the players that have played for them, the team's they've had, nobody can compete with them in terms of history.

An all-time top 50 players list is always gonna be massively populated with Barcelona and Real players because throughout history that's where the best players in the world have wanted to go.

Do a quick google of an all-time top 50 players list there. I found 3 United players in the one I found first. I found 3 Barcelona ones in the top 4. You go through a current top 50 players in the world list and you're going to find 3 Barcelona players in the top 4 again. Go through your World Player of the Year lists, whatever kinds of history you want, United cannot compare.

You can have all the fans in Asia and have all the income streams you want but you're still operating on completely different levels.

Iused2likebusts · 28-05-2016 7:44pm

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't know how to break this to you, but Zidane nor Cristiano ever played for Barca, and Ronaldinho nor Messi have ever played for Real.

Meanwhile, Cristiano has played for Man Utd, as has Bobby Charlton and George Best.

I only picked recent players . I also didn't pick Spanish players as naturally they will gravitate to the big two. Ronaldo left Utd in his prime to sign for Real. The only top players that would pick Utd over real and barca are British players and even that is very questionable. Utd are the biggest club in England in what is the most supported league. Outside of that little bubble they aren't considered bigger than real or barca.

RobertKK · 28-05-2016 7:48pm

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't know how to break this to you, but Zidane nor Cristiano ever played for Barca, and Ronaldinho nor Messi have ever played for Real.

Meanwhile, Cristiano has played for Man Utd, as has Bobby Charlton and George Best.

...and United still have Real Madrid's goalkeeper

RobertKK · 28-05-2016 7:54pm

CSF wrote: »

Yeah but it's just the 1. You go through the European trophy cabinet, the players that have played for them, the team's they've had, nobody can compete with them in terms of history.

An all-time top 50 players list is always gonna be massively populated with Barcelona and Real players because throughout history that's where the best players in the world have wanted to go.

Do a quick google of an all-time top 50 players list there. I found 3 United players in the one I found first. I found 3 Barcelona ones in the top 4. You go through a current top 50 players in the world list and you're going to find 3 Barcelona players in the top 4 again. Go through your World Player of the Year lists, whatever kinds of history you want, United cannot compare.

You can have all the fans in Asia and have all the income streams you want but you're still operating on completely different levels.

Yeah because Spain is good for their sun tans, and normally just a two team league, though Atletico are becoming a persistent thorn.

Who decided the list?
Of the last two players to win the best player going back for years now, the teams they represented it to win it are Barcelona, Manchester United and Real Madrid.

bucketybuck · 28-05-2016 7:55pm

WarZ wrote: »

They also compete regularly in the Champions League unlike Manchester United who haven't competed in god knows how long.

WarZ wrote: »

they regularly compete in the Champions League where United have vanished from.

But United were in the Champions league this very season?

WarZ wrote: »

I'm dealing in actual facts.

13 league titles! :pac:

CSF · 28-05-2016 8:05pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Yeah because Spain is good for their sun tans, and normally just a two team league, though Atletico are becoming a persistent thorn.

Who decided the list?
Of the last two players to win the best player going back for years now, the teams they represented it to win it are Barcelona, Manchester United and Real Madrid.

Barcelona and Real Madrid have monopolised the World Player of the Year for the whole of the 21st century. The 3 players that have won it while not playing for one of these clubs have been signed up by these clubs within 2 years. How can you even argue against this? I honestly don't get it.

astonaidan · 28-05-2016 8:28pm

WarZ wrote: »

Are you actually comparing the Serie A to the Scottish League? That is beyond silly.

And you discounting things isnt, cool

astonaidan · 28-05-2016 8:29pm

CSF wrote: »

Barcelona and Real Madrid have monopolised the World Player of the Year for the whole of the 21st century. The 3 players that have won it while not playing for one of these clubs have been signed up by these clubs within 2 years. How can you even argue against this? I honestly don't get it.

Logic dictates you shouldnt........alas

RobertKK · 28-05-2016 8:50pm

CSF wrote: »

Barcelona and Real Madrid have monopolised the World Player of the Year for the whole of the 21st century. The 3 players that have won it while not playing for one of these clubs have been signed up by these clubs within 2 years. How can you even argue against this? I honestly don't get it.

Wrong, monopolised is the wrong word to use.

The problem is for the coming years La Liga and other leagues in Europe face problems with the amount of money in England.
It has started with the top managers being mostly in England, money will bring the players as other leagues will find it harder and harder to compete.
Real Madrid and Barcelona have up to now operated in a league biased to paying them excessively compared to the other teams in the league.

Look at where it is going, Barcelona and Real Madrid are at their peak. Barcelona wanted to sign Pogba, some claims they had a price agreed with Juventus, but now have changed plans due to lack of finances and the need to give Neymar a better deal.
Such a big club and they are having to scrimp, and can't afford signings that they would once make.
While in the PL the money flow just grows.
Despite what we see with Spanish teams, they are at their pinnacle and the EPL will be on top again soon enough in Europe.

CSF · 28-05-2016 8:53pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Wrong, monopolised is the wrong word to use.

The problem is for the coming years La Liga and other leagues in Europe face problems with the amount of money in England.
It has started with the top managers being mostly in England, money will bring the players as other leagues will find it harder and harder to compete.
Real Madrid and Barcelona have up to now operated in a league biased to paying them excessively compared to the other teams in the league.

Look at where it is going, Barcelona and Real Madrid are at their peak. Barcelona wanted to sign Pogba, some claims they had a price agreed with Juventus, but now have changed plans due to lack of finances and the need to give Neymar a better deal.
Such a big club and they are having to scrimp, and can't afford signings that they would once make.
While in the PL the money flow just grows.
Despite what we see with Spanish teams, they are at their pinnacle and the EPL will be on top again soon enough in Europe.

No it is exactly the right word to use. They've had every World Player of the Year between them since 2000, either by the player being at their team, or them just going out and signing the player. That is pretty much the exact definition of monopoly.

RobertKK · 28-05-2016 9:13pm

CSF wrote: »

No it is exactly the right word to use. They've had every World Player of the Year between them since 2000, either by the player being at their team, or them just going out and signing the player. That is pretty much the exact definition of monopoly.

Monopoly:
monopoly
məˈnɒp(ə)li/
noun
noun: monopoly; plural noun: monopolies; noun: Monopoly
1.
the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.

It has not being exclusive.

Liverpool had Michael Owen when he won the Ballon dor, he went to Real Madrid, he also moved to United and won the League.
Nedved won it in 2003, never played in Spain.
Shevchenko won it in 2004, never played in Spain.

United have 4 different players win it while playing for them, Barcelona and Real Madrid have 6 each and Liverpool the only other English club with 1.

CSF · 28-05-2016 9:17pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Monopoly:
monopoly
məˈnɒp(ə)li/
noun
noun: monopoly; plural noun: monopolies; noun: Monopoly
1.
the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.

It has not being exclusive.

Liverpool had Michael Owen when he won the Ballon dor, he went to Real Madrid, he also moved to United and won the League.
Nedved won it in 2003, never played in Spain.
Shevchenko won it in 2004, never played in Spain.

United have 4 different players win it while playing for them, Barcelona and Real Madrid have 6 each and Liverpool the only other English club with 1.

Owen, Nedved and Shevchenko won the European player of the year, not the World. They were outdone by Figo, Ronaldo and Zidane in the World Player of the Year.

RobertKK · 28-05-2016 9:25pm

CSF wrote: »

Owen, Nedved and Shevchenko won the European player of the year, not the World. They were outdone by Figo, Ronaldo and Zidane in the World Player of the Year.

It was merged with world player of the year, so why didn't they keep world player of the year and dump the Ballon dor?

I am sticking with the Ballon dor.

CSF · 28-05-2016 9:32pm

RobertKK wrote: »

It was merged with world player of the year, so why didn't they keep world player of the year and dump the Ballon dor?

I am sticking with the Ballon dor.

They merged European Player of the Year and World Player of the Year, and the current version of the Ballon D'or was the result.

RobertKK · 28-05-2016 9:37pm

CSF wrote: »

They merged European Player of the Year and World Player of the Year, and the current version of the Ballon D'or was the result.

We can agree on that.

K-9 · 29-05-2016 9:52am

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

EL final starting line up.

Mignolet, Clyne, Toure, Lovren, Moreno, Can, Milner, Lallana, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge.

Vs Stoke on 10/04

Mignolet, Clyne, Toure, Skrtel, Moreno, Stewart, Ojo, Milner, Allen, Firmino, Sturridge.

Vs Bournemouth 17/04

Mignolet, Clyne, Toure, Skrtel, Moreno, Stewart, Ojo, Ibe, Allen, Firmino, Sturridge.

Vs Everton 20/04

Mignolet, Clyne, Lovren, Sakho, Moreno, Lucas, Coutinho, Milner, Lucas, Firmino, Origi.

Vs Newcastle 23/04

Mignolet, Randall, Lovren, Toure, Moreno, Stewart, Allen, Milner, Lallana, Firmino, Sturridge.

Vs Swansea 01/05

Ward, Smith, Lovren, Skrtel, Clyne, Stewart, Ibe, Chirivella, Ojo, Couthinho, Sturridge.

And so on.

A few changes in the games, ye also had a few injuries so its not like Klopp dropped Sakho or Origi by choice.

So you could probably stretch it to say he played half a first team in some of those games, not exactly a second string in all of them.

Fair play for digging it out.

Sakho and Lovren was the first choice center back partnership as you'll see from the Everton match, they didn't feature in any of those matches. Sakho obviously didn't feature in the last couple of matches you didn't mentio, so saying he played the second choice CB partnership is fair enough.

Stewart played regularly, youth player, 5th or 6th choice. 2nd choice FB picked in the last 5 or 6 games.

Ojo and Ibe featured regularly, not first 11, often not on the bench during the season.

Lucas and Allen as well. Injuries works both ways, Henderson was out hence playing Milner CM.

Btw you've Lucas down twice against Newcastle, told you he wasn't taking the league seriously!

When I said a second string I obviously didn't mean for you to take it in a literal sense, it is fair to say he was saving his best available 11 for the Europa Cup

gosplan · 29-05-2016 10:07am

Fairly sad stuff in here. People almost sound boastful that an air disaster is a part of their club's past.

Fcuk history. Utd are a very wealthy club who will sign the best manager and players they can. Exactly the same as City.

The 'United Way' is a myth or rather was actually just 'the Fergie way'.

Their history is about on par with the rolling stones. Some great days, some tragedies and lots of very expensive tickets.

History. Laughable. Utd are nothing special. Leeds or Liverpool with a better business model.

Flint Fredstone · 29-05-2016 10:20am

gosplan wrote: »

Fairly sad stuff in here. People almost sound boastful that an air disaster is a part of their club's past.

Fcuk history. Utd are a very wealthy club who will sign the best manager and players they can. Exactly the same as City.

The 'United Way' is a myth or rather was actually just 'the Fergie way'.

Their history is about on par with the rolling stones. Some great days, some tragedies and lots of very expensive tickets.

History. Laughable. Utd are nothing special. Leeds or Liverpool with a better business model.

Did I miss something? Who was boasting about Munich?

Most fans I see on here referring to the "United Way" are opposition fans who are suddenly all concerned about the image of the club because of the manager they have just installed.

DM_7 · 29-05-2016 10:59am

gosplan wrote: »

Fairly sad stuff in here. People almost sound boastful that an air disaster is a part of their club's past.

Fcuk history. Utd are a very wealthy club who will sign the best manager and players they can. Exactly the same as City.

The 'United Way' is a myth or rather was actually just 'the Fergie way'.

Their history is about on par with the rolling stones. Some great days, some tragedies and lots of very expensive tickets.

History. Laughable. Utd are nothing special. Leeds or Liverpool with a better business model.

History is a strange thing to argue about, Barcelona and Real are out on their own in terms of history, prestige and influence globally.

Its still pretty clear United have a history that a lot of people across the world are aware of, as do Liverpool. They are special clubs.

Other special clubs exist on a local scale within England but they don't have anything close to the reach of United or Liverpool.

gosplan · 29-05-2016 11:25am

DM_7 wrote: »

History is a strange thing to argue about, Barcelona and Real are out on their own in terms of history, prestige and influence globally.

Its still pretty clear United have a history that a lot of people across the world are aware of, as do Liverpool. They are special clubs.

Other special clubs exist on a local scale within England but they don't have anything close to the reach of United or Liverpool.

About the saddest thing you can do as a foreign football fan is bang on about your club's history.

gosplan · 29-05-2016 11:27am

DM_7 wrote: »

History is a strange thing to argue about, Barcelona and Real are out on their own in terms of history, prestige and influence globally.

Its still pretty clear United have a history that a lot of people across the world are aware of, as do Liverpool. They are special clubs.

Other special clubs exist on a local scale within England but they don't have anything close to the reach of United or Liverpool.

They were special clubs.

How special they are next year depends on next year, not the 80's or Munich.

Flint Fredstone · 29-05-2016 11:34am

gosplan wrote: »

They were special clubs.

How special they are next year depends on next year, not the 80's or Munich.

Who was boasting about Munich?

gosplan · 29-05-2016 11:42am

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Who was boasting about Munich?

Who said there was?

Flint Fredstone · 29-05-2016 11:45am

gosplan wrote: »

Who said there was?

You were getting at it.

"Fairly sad stuff in here. People almost sound boastful that an air disaster is a part of their club's past."

What made you say that?

Umaro · 29-05-2016 11:48am

That is history, and one of the greatest stories in the history of European club football. How United had the Munich air disaster which devastated the team and club, and in 10 years after went onto win the European Cup.

It was the wrong way to word it.

gosplan · 29-05-2016 11:49am

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

You were getting at it.

"Fairly sad stuff in here. People almost sound boastful that an air disaster is a part of their club's past."

What made you say that?

I guess it was the guy almost sounding boastful that made me say it.

Flint Fredstone · 29-05-2016 11:57am

gosplan wrote: »

I guess it was the guy almost sounding boastful that made me say it.

As Umaro said...

gosplan · 29-05-2016 12:10pm

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

As Umaro said...

I phrased it perfectly to be honest.

'Almost sounding boastful' ... Which they were.

Not sure why you're trying to engage me in tit-for-tat argument. It's fairly obvious what I'm saying and I'm not wrong.

Flint Fredstone · 29-05-2016 12:15pm

gosplan wrote: »

I phrased it perfectly to be honest.

'Almost sounding boastful' ... Which they were.

Not sure why you're trying to engage me in tit-for-tat argument. It's fairly obvious what I'm saying and I'm not wrong.

Lol. You seem to have taken Mourinho's appointment worse than anybody in the forum. You've been across multiple threads with this needling crap ever since it was announced so don't get on your high horse with the tit for tat stuff.

DM_7 · 29-05-2016 12:51pm

gosplan wrote: »

About the saddest thing you can do as a foreign football fan is bang on about your club's history.

Erm okay, that has nothing to do with my post.

gosplan wrote: »

They were special clubs.

How special they are next year depends on next year, not the 80's or Munich.

I disagree with you about that as well.

Within the context of what people were talking about, what is current is irrelevant.

If you want to talk about a clubs selection of players United and Liverpool are clearly not special right now. But the clubs as entities, with their respective histories, are special.

K-9 · 29-05-2016 1:02pm

gosplan wrote: »

I guess it was the guy almost sounding boastful that made me say it.

The Mourinho quotes about mystique were the best as if that means anything. The reason he wants the job is because it ticks the box like Real, and Barcelona or Bayern are unlikely to go near him. Everything is cleverly planned with him career wise and it's very much a career path.

CSF · 29-05-2016 1:13pm

DM_7 wrote: »

If you want to talk about a clubs selection of players United and Liverpool are clearly not special right now. But the clubs as entities, with their respective histories, are special.

From an English footballing perspective, yes. From a European/Global football perspective, their footprint has definitely been lesser. I know Liverpool have won 5 European Cups and had a spell in time where they really were elite in the world, but that spell aside, neither side has provided the world with players and teams that grace the world stage in such an elite manner like Real and Barcelona have throughout history.

DM_7 · 29-05-2016 1:29pm

CSF wrote: »

From an English footballing perspective, yes. From a European/Global football perspective, their footprint has definitely been lesser. I know Liverpool have won 5 European Cups and had a spell in time where they really were elite in the world, but that spell aside, neither side has provided the world with players and teams that grace the world stage in such an elite manner like Real and Barcelona have throughout history.

I already said Barcelona and Real Madrid are out on their own so I can't argue with that.

CSF · 29-05-2016 1:32pm

DM_7 wrote: »

I already said Barcelona and Real Madrid are out on their own so I can't argue with that.

Probably Bayern and maybe Milan too.

gosplan · 29-05-2016 1:37pm

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Lol. You seem to have taken Mourinho's appointment worse than anybody in the forum. You've been across multiple threads with this needling crap ever since it was announced so don't get on your high horse with the tit for tat stuff.

Who's talking about Mourinho?

All I'm saying is that the argument being made in here, comparing the histories of different clubs is rediculous when looking at the here and now.

Either debate that or we'll drop it.

gosplan · 29-05-2016 1:39pm

DM_7 wrote: »

Erm okay, that has nothing to do with my post.

I disagree with you about that as well.

Within the context of what people were talking about, what is current is irrelevant.

If you want to talk about a clubs selection of players United and Liverpool are clearly not special right now. But the clubs as entities, with their respective histories, are special.

First point wasn't aimed at you.

You said debating history is funny. I added I thought it was sad.

Everyone's history is special tbh.

pablo128 · 29-05-2016 1:41pm

We have a frightening line up of talent, bar a fast winger or 2. If Mourinho can get them playing properly we are in for one hell of a season.

CSF · 29-05-2016 1:48pm

pablo128 wrote: »

We have a frightening line up of talent, bar a fast winger or 2. If Mourinho can get them playing properly we are in for one hell of a season.

Really?

Billy86 · 29-05-2016 1:52pm

pablo128 wrote: »

We have a frightening line up of talent, bar a fast winger or 2. If Mourinho can get them playing properly we are in for one hell of a season.

We still need another CB, preferably a ball winning midfielder to partner with Schneiderlin and Herrera (I'm assuming Mourinho would rather a 433 with the squad as is), and a striker on top of that winger. Some decent depth and lots of potential through the squad but it is some way from been the finished article.

Billy86 · 29-05-2016 2:01pm

CSF wrote: »

From an English footballing perspective, yes. From a European/Global football perspective, their footprint has definitely been lesser. I know Liverpool have won 5 European Cups and had a spell in time where they really were elite in the world, but that spell aside, neither side has provided the world with players and teams that grace the world stage in such an elite manner like Real and Barcelona have throughout history.

I would have disagreed on Barcelona a decade back, but with the ten years they have had its probably out them up another level to be fair.

You didn't mention them, but regarding Bayern I wouldn't put them on the same level, and think the lack of a historical domestic rival might play a part. Recently they've been an 'A1' destination with Barca and Real, but they've been on an exceptionally high ebb whereas 5-10 years ago they were not nearly as attractive an option when they were in a bit of a rut. What I mean here is, even when struggling Barca or Madrid can attract some of the best of the best talents... Bayern not as much.

Historically I would put Milan in with Real (and now Barca) also, but the severity of their struggles in recent times and probably more importantly, the weakness of serie a in the last decade, have caused them to not be one of the best-of-the-best destinations for the last while. Had the same happened n Spain I think it would have similar consequences to Real/Barca which is why I would overlook this as 'extenuating circumstances'. All the same, for Milans sake they and Serie A would want to get back to prominence sooner rather than later!

CSF · 29-05-2016 2:20pm

Billy86 wrote: »

I would have disagreed on Barcelona a decade back, but with the ten years they have had its probably out them up another level to be fair.

You didn't mention them, but regarding Bayern I wouldn't put them on the same level, and think the lack of a historical domestic rival might play a part. Recently they've been an 'A1' destination with Barca and Real, but they've been on an exceptionally high ebb whereas 5-10 years ago they were not nearly as attractive an option when they were in a bit of a rut. What I mean here is, even when struggling Barca or Madrid can attract some of the best of the best talents... Bayern not as much.

Historically I would put Milan in with Real (and now Barca) also, but the severity of their struggles in recent times and probably more importantly, the weakness of serie a in the last decade, have caused them to not be one of the best-of-the-best destinations for the last while. Had the same happened n Spain I think it would have similar consequences to Real/Barca which is why I would overlook this as 'extenuating circumstances'. All the same, for Milans sake they and Serie A would want to get back to prominence sooner rather than later!

I agree what you say, but I still think that puts those teams above United and Liverpool who haven't really been a European superpower for long periods of time throughout history nor been a peak destination for many of the best players in the world. I think it's been mentioned by others in the thread but obviously location is a factor here. The north-west of England isn't really an easy location to attract the best players in the world too, particularly when these players have very frequently been South American. But c'est la vie.

Obviously that Liverpool team who won 4 European cups in what 7/8 years is about as good as it's gotten for English clubs but they haven't been a consistent fixture in the upper echelons of world football before or after. United had great teams under Ferguson too but we're always hindered by their ability to attract the very very best to Manchester.

Billy86 · 29-05-2016 2:33pm

CSF wrote: »

I agree what you say, but I still think that puts those teams above United and Liverpool who haven't really been a European superpower for long periods of time throughout history nor been a peak destination for many of the best players in the world. I think it's been mentioned by others in the thread but obviously location is a factor here. The north-west of England isn't really an easy location to attract the best players in the world too, particularly when these players have very frequently been South American. But c'est la vie.

Obviously that Liverpool team who won 4 European cups in what 7/8 years is about as good as it's gotten for English clubs but they haven't been a consistent fixture in the upper echelons of world football before or after. United had great teams under Ferguson too but we're always hindered by their ability to attract the very very best to Manchester.

Oh yeah, my point there just being that Man Utd could leapfrog Bayern pretty quickly... though that would need Man Utd to be back where we were 6-8 years ago and Bayern to at least regress a little. Milan would leapfrog both if they returned to regular QF/SF/F appearances in the CL and Italy somehow got back up to strength.

If that happened to Madrid or Barca though, they would still be at least as big, or more likely still a bigger draw, than Man Utd for most. To bridge that gap, aside from just football related stuff Man Utd would need to go for their own TV deal and be fortunate in having the government significantly reduce taxes on players - neither of which are happening in the foreseeable future. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I seem to recall the demand to go to Spanish clubs growing exponentially when their taxes were reworked about 8-10 years ago, and of course the (farcical, cancerous) TV deals essentially give Barca and Real as close to unlimited money as they could realistically hope for.

The location/weather issue is also a very valid one - and language/culture only accentuates it. I personally think it would be less of an issue for players now than 20-30 years ago due to how much more 'connected' the world is and how much easier it would be to avoid homesickness etc (not to mention, pay me a hundred grand a week and I'll wear a mankini around the North Pole), but nonetheless it is still there and would necessitate being a clearly bigger club to win out (e.g. Man Utd/City/Chelsea compared to say, Valencia), which is the case for exactly nobody in relation to Barca/Real.

CSF · 29-05-2016 2:37pm

I think the new money in football changes the dynamic vastly in football in any case. Catching Barca/Bayern/Real is no longer the primary challenge. PSG/City/Chelsea are just as big as the rest now if we eliminate history as one of the criteria and just concentrate on the present day/future.

SuperTortoise · 29-05-2016 2:37pm

pablo128 wrote: »

We have a frightening line up of talent, bar a fast winger or 2. If Mourinho can get them playing properly we are in for one hell of a season.

They have the best GK in the world, and Martial who has the potential to be world class, aside from that they have a very average team.

pablo128 · 29-05-2016 2:43pm

SuperTortoise wrote: »

They have the best GK in the world, and Martial who has the potential to be world class, aside from that they have a very average team.

The defence speaks for itself. We let in one of the lowest amounts in the league. Martial, Lingard, Rashford, Memphis, Mata, Rooney, and a heap more in midfield.

That's a good squad in anyones book.

Jose Mourinho, the new manager of Manchester United

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