Jose Mourinho, the new manager of Manchester United

Backstreet Moyes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

They haven't, but again it's ridiculous to only measure a coach based on winning the CL. Both Klopp and Simeone have taken clubs that have nowhere close to the resources of their rivals and have made them heavyweight players in Europe. That is remarkable.

Mourinho won the Europa League and the Champions League wit Porto that is remarkable.
He won the Champions league with Inter a team who spent years losing in the quarters or group stages.

Both of those are remarkable.

Giggsy11

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Chelsea and Inter?

Inter were champions of Italy for at least a couple of years before Mourinho arrived. They also had a World Class Defensive Unit already there at his disposal. He made them better in Europe, but he certainly did not build them from scratch.

It's not like Chelsea were a piss poor squad either when he took over. They'd regularly been in the Top 4 and had even gotten to a Champions League Semi.

What do you mean by scratch? Every player should be bought by Jose?

Milito, Eto'o, Lucio, Sneijder, Motta were signed in that season and they were among the best players in the team. They also signed Pandev that season and he played important role.

Same argument can be extended to Pep also, that he never built the squad.

Giggsy11

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Mate you're confusing salt and lemons with cold, hard logic. His last 2 jobs have been far from overwhelming successes. In both cases he left under a black cloud with the players of the respective clubs euphoric to see the back of him. In that time he won 1 Spanish league (a paltry return considering the money spent on that squad and the unprecedented control granted to him) and 1 English league. Meanwhile in Europe he's been comprehensively outclassed by coached with far more limited resources like Klopp and Simeone, even the PSG tie Chelsea went out with a whimper when the aim was to build a squad capable of challenging the elite for European glory. The days of Mourinho's triumph with Inter are over, he's changed as a coach and football too has changed.

Hard to take you seriously when you posts are like two faces of the coin. When Chelsea appointed him your posts were completely different.

Pep lost to Atletico Madrid who have far more inferior resources, Klopp even failed to qualify from group stage in one of the CL season.

Every manager have ups and down, in this scenario since he is not managing one of the 100s of club you support you are picking up downs of his career to beat him. Simple as that.

Giggsy11

Icaras wrote: »

For the Utd fans will you be happy with his 1-0 win and park the bus style?

Also I think the squad is poor - Carrick and Fellaini aren't good enough to be partnering Mata, Rooney seems to be doing better in his midfield role but its only a few games, Rashford is young and the key is to keep him injury free. De Gea is really the only world class player in a team who fans are expecting a top 4 in PL, out of group stages of CL and a good run in one of the cups - there will need to be some big and intelligent spending this summer.

One more myth. If his teams are set up to win 1-0 then his teams wouldn't have been in top 3 scorers in the league every single season he has managed.

Andersonisgod

Nuts102 wrote: »

Mourinho won the Europa League and the Champions League wit Porto that is remarkable.
He won the Champions league with Inter a team who spent years losing in the quarters or group stages.

Both of those are remarkable.

One of those is 12 years ago, the other is 6 years ago which, tbf, isn't that long but the problem is that more and more his sides have looked so prehistoric and one dimensional when matched with these sides equipped with modern coaches. His tactics in these games have increasingly looked very one dimensional in the face of such versatile teams.

Andersonisgod

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Hard to take you seriously when you posts are like two faces of the coin. When Chelsea appointed him your posts were completely different.

Pep lost to Atletico Madrid who have far more inferior resources, Klopp even failed to qualify from group stage in one of the CL season.

Every manager have ups and down, in this scenario since he is not managing one of the 100s of club you support you are picking up downs of his career to beat him. Simple as that.

I'd say I'm one of the few posters on this forum who is willing to change his opinion based on what I see rather than stick to an opinion stubbornly even when facts are staring him in the face.

They did, though that second leg was a sublime display, ultimately factors beyond a coaches control came into play. In any case, Simeone's Atletico are the side now that Mourinho's teams were before. He did, but ultimately his work at Dortmund will go down in football folklore and rightly so.

Far from picking the downs, I'm simply giving you my assessment of a coach who, in my view, looks more and more like a coach from a previous era, and whose last 2 jobs have not been successful.

Giggsy11

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'd say I'm one of the few posters on this forum who is willing to change his opinion based on what I see rather than stick to an opinion stubbornly even when facts are staring him in the face.

They did, though that second leg was a sublime display, ultimately factors beyond a coaches control came into play. In any case, Simeone's Atletico are the side now that Mourinho's teams were before. He did, but ultimately his work at Dortmund will go down in football folklore and rightly so.

Far from picking the downs, I'm simply giving you my assessment of a coach who, in my view, looks more and more like a coach from a previous era, and whose last 2 jobs have not been successful.

No, you are the poster who is as biased as they come and change the opinion just to suit your agenda.

For example, just in Nov 2015:

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'd like to note that so far in this thread I've seen Sherwood compared to Andre Villas Boas, who can boast a domestic league title and a Europa League success on his CV, I've seen comparisons to Mauricio Pochettino who has proven himself as one of the shrewdest managers about in quite a short career thus far, here's a comparison to Jose Mourinho who is, arguably, the greatest manager in modern football, all of these comparisons for a guy whose been in charge of a team for 5 months, who failed to impress anyone in that time in what his team produced on the pitch and whose claim to fame are his cringe post match interviewers and his close relationship with his gilet.

As I said earlier, it's the equivalent of saying that Avram Grant is one of the world's great coaches based on his win percentage at Chelsea, if you read stats without applying context you end up with a skewed perception.

I found his Spurs team devoid of ideas or purpose, I thought he brought only negativity with him with his antics, I can't actually pinpoint any real positives behind hiring him other than a potential boost in immediate results that always seem to come with the hiring of a new manager, once that wears off I feel very confident in saying that Villa has a managerial dud on their hands.

I didn't even search your posts about Jose post Madrid when he was announced as Chelsea manager.

Backstreet Moyes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

One of those is 12 years ago, the other is 6 years ago which, tbf, isn't that long but the problem is that more and more his sides have looked so prehistoric and one dimensional when matched with these sides equipped with modern coaches. His tactics in these games have increasingly looked very one dimensional in the face of such versatile teams.

What about Pep not reached a final in 5 years despite managing arguably the best team in the world each of the past 5 years.

Battered by Barca and Real looking one dimensional done nothing to react when getting slaughtered and outclassed by Simeone this year.

He has done great winning league titles against inferior sides but in the past three years showed himself to be one dimensional when facing a side of similar ability.

Would you worry for City next year when he won't have a team who is miles clear of the rest and who's rivals have great managers.

Out of curiosity will you be supporting Chelsea or City next year.

Andersonisgod

Giggsy11 wrote: »

No, you are the poster who is as biased as they come and change the opinion just to suit your agenda.

For example, just in Nov 2015:



I didn't even search your posts about Jose post Madrid when he was announced as Chelsea manager.

I could have saved you the trouble of searching, I literally said only a few hours ago that he, along with Pep, are 2 of the top managers of their generation.

Giggsy11

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I could have saved you the trouble of searching, I literally said only a few hours ago that he, along with Pep, are 2 of the top managers of their generation.

So the generation is over as you are saying this is not a good appointment?

So what's wrong in appointing one of the best manager of his generation?

Andersonisgod

Nuts102 wrote: »

What about Pep not reached a final in 5 years despite managing arguably the best team in the world each of the past 5 years.

Battered by Barca and Real looking one dimensional done nothing to react when getting slaughtered and outclassed by Simeone this year.

He has done great winning league titles against inferior sides but in the past three years showed himself to be one dimensional when facing a side of similar ability.

Would you worry for City next year when he won't have a team who is miles clear of the rest and who's rivals have great managers.

Out of curiosity will you be supporting Chelsea or City next year.

Actually he won the competition 5 years ago with what was, in my opinion, the greatest team I've ever seen in my life. He took a year out so really it's 3 seasons where he lost against the eventual winners twice (potentially 3 times).

That 2nd paragraph is everything that's wrong with modern football fans, it's exactly as Xavi Hernandez said recently, nobody watches games anymore, they are looking at live score, they see a result in a newspaper, they are tweeting or facebooking, there's so few that pay attention to details. That 2nd leg was bloody magnificent by Bayern against a remarkable Atletico team but you wouldn't know that.

Fun fact, Borrussia Dortmund would have won every edition of the Bundesliga with their points total this season except for a a small handful (I forget the exact number but it's a single digit) oh and they won the cup yesterday too against that Dortmund team but ye...whatever.

Chelsea. Though I will keep a close eye on all teams in England as I already do.

Andersonisgod

Giggsy11 wrote: »

So the generation is over as you are saying this is not a good appointment?

So what's wrong in appointing one of the best manager of his generation?

As I've been saying, you can't discount his achievements but his last 2 jobs have been failures and his tactics have increasingly looked very limited against multifunctional teams.

Giggsy11

Andersonisgod wrote: »

As I've been saying, you can't discount his achievements but his last 2 jobs have been failures and his tactics have increasingly looked very limited against multifunctional teams.

But he wasn't a failure at Madrid (according to you) when he took Chelsea job in 2013.

gosplan

Giggsy11 wrote: »

But he wasn't a failure at Madrid (according to you) when he took Chelsea job in 2013.

I reckon the problem at Madrid was that people didn't buy into it. He didn't have full power and that created a lot of friction. There's also an ethos at the club that doesn't put trophies first.

I think Utd are hungrier for success and will buy in to his system a bit more. There's also no-one for him to go up against like Iker C or Ramos.

If everyone follows, they've a chance of doing well but for me Jose's is very Emperor's new clothes. If someone stops believing in the fabrication and points out he's naked, it could all unravel quickly.

It's probably good that Utd are a blank enough slate.

Andersonisgod

Giggsy11 wrote: »

But he wasn't a failure at Madrid (according to you) when he took Chelsea job in 2013.

I don't remember calling him a rousing success. Yes, he was matched against, possibly, the greatest team ever but he had the most expensive squad in football history and the entire backing and weight of Madrid behind him. Would you call 1 cup and 1 league in that time a success? Not even taking into account the heavy defeat to Barcelona or the crazy antics that turned the dressing room into a civil war battleground.

Andersonisgod

gosplan wrote: »

I reckon the problem at Madrid was that people didn't buy into it. He didn't have full power and that created a lot of friction. There's also an ethos at the club that doesn't put trophies first.

I think Utd are hungrier for success and will buy in to his system a bit more. There's also no-one for him to go up against like Iker C or Ramos.

If everyone follows, they've a chance of doing well but for me Jose's is very Emperor's new clothes. If someone stops believing in the fabrication and points out he's naked, it could all unravel quickly.

It's probably good that Utd are a blank enough slate.

Note: post Valdano he very much had full power, more power than almost any Madrid has had in decades or since.

brinty

Is this Andersonisgod answering every single other post...
Nothing better to do have ye???

Andersonisgod

brinty wrote: »

Is this Andersonisgod answering every single other post...
Nothing better to do have ye???

I think quite a few of the posts, like this one, are actually directed at me. It'd be rude not to answer. With Gosplan's post I simply saw something that was incorrect and had to fix it, maybe I'm OCD, who knows.

Ulysses Gaze

Giggsy11 wrote: »

What do you mean by scratch? Every player should be bought by Jose?

Milito, Eto'o, Lucio, Sneijder, Motta were signed in that season and they were among the best players in the team. They also signed Pandev that season and he played important role.

Same argument can be extended to Pep also, that he never built the squad.

The poster that I answered stated that Mourinho rebuilt Inter from scratch. Which is nonsense.

He walked into a club with Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Walter Samuel, Julio Cesar, Maicon, Javier Zanetti, Marco Materazzi, Esteban Cambiasso, Dejan Stankovic, Figo, Patrick Viera, Hernan Crespo and Christian Chivu on its books.

And a club that had been Champions the previous two seasons.

gosplan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Note: post Valdano he very much had full power, more power than almost any Madrid has had in decades or since.

Probably.

I was more thinking about particular players being so influential though.

Utd don't really have a club legend with any status to challenge Jose.

astonaidan

All the lol's, gotta love random back tracking
Gotta love the belittling of Jose winning the CL league with Porto, but they hyping up Pep winning Bundesliga at every opp, hilarious at the highest end

GavRedKing

Korat wrote: »

I hated Mourinho as Chelsea manager. It was pure jealousy. This bunch of relegation regulars had a Russian billionaire chucking money at them, while we were being bled dry by the Glazer parasites, and now they had a manager capable of turning that money into success.

A lot of the anti-Mourinho propaganda about negative football and not giving young players a chance that gets chucked around now originated mostly from Utd fans during his first spell at Chelsea. Hands up we did it!

The truth is he's the 2nd best manager English football has ever seen and we really should have appointed him after the best retired.

Ha, last time Chelsea were relegated was in '88, came straight back up to the old 1st divison by winning it and this year was our worse finish in the league since '96, until this year, 6th was the lowest in over 20 years, but ya, Roman took the relegation fodder Chelsea lol.

Flint Fredstone

GavRedKing wrote: »

Ha, last time Chelsea were relegated was in '88, came straight back up to the old 1st divison by winning it and this year was our worse finish in the league since '96, until this year, 6th was the lowest in over 20 years, but ya, Roman took the relegation fodder Chelsea lol.

There's something in the air Gav. The forum has gone a bit mad over the last few days. I've never seen so many bizarre statements in such a short space of time.

GavRedKing

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

There's something in the air Gav. The forum has gone a bit mad over the last few days. I've never seen so many bizarre statements in such a short space of time.

Needs more popcorn gifs. :pac:

LMA lawyer Paul Gilroy has arrived at Carrignton.

Utd fans would remember him the time Moyes got axed

LVG arrived earlier this morning

mansize

LVG officially sacked

http://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/louis-van-gaal-has-been-sacked-as-manchester-united-manager-34738649.html

Andersonisgod

Honestly I have some sympathy for LVG. He would be far from my favourite manager but there seems to be this prevailing train of thought at Old Trafford that if you don't adhere to playing a certain way then you're just not up to it. There's been far too many leaks from that dressing room post Ferguson and there's a Mancunian mafia that's infiltrated the English media that swings public opinion in their favour. In an age of football where controlling every minor detail is becoming increasingly essential, these current and past players seem far too enamoured with doing things "their way."

Andersonisgod

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Honestly I have some sympathy for LVG. He would be far from my favourite manager but there seems to be this prevailing train of thought at Old Trafford that if you don't adhere to playing a certain way then you're just not up to it. There's been far too many leaks from that dressing room post Ferguson and there's a Mancunian mafia that's infiltrated the English media that swings public opinion in their favour. In an age of football where controlling every minor detail is becoming increasingly essential, these current and past players seem far too enamoured with doing things "their way."

No

Utd failed to qualify for the Champions League

That's why he was sacked

It's a results business

Johner

LVG didn't take the club forward and showed no signs of doing so, I wouldn't be feeling any sympathy for him either he's getting a nice pay off.

Korat

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Honestly I have some sympathy for LVG. He would be far from my favourite manager but there seems to be this prevailing train of thought at Old Trafford that if you don't adhere to playing a certain way then you're just not up to it. There's been far too many leaks from that dressing room post Ferguson and there's a Mancunian mafia that's infiltrated the English media that swings public opinion in their favour. In an age of football where controlling every minor detail is becoming increasingly essential, these current and past players seem far too enamoured with doing things "their way."

You're a Chelsea fan and it must make your eyes bleed and stomach turn to see the hero that you first roped your wagon to become Manchester United manager.

astonaidan

Korat wrote: »

You're a Chelsea fan and it must make your eyes bleed and stomach turn to see the hero that you first roped your wagon to become Manchester United manager.

You should try keep up, he infact thinks Jose is a terrible manager all while saying hes top two of this generation. Its loltastic

CSF

M!Ck^ wrote: »

No

Utd failed to qualify for the Champions League

That's why he was sacked

It's a results business

Would you have been happy for him to stay if United got that extra point somewhere and pipped City to 4th?

Johner

astonaidan wrote: »

You should try keep up, he infact thinks Jose is a terrible manager all while saying hes top two of this generation. Its loltastic

Such a bad manager.

CSF

Johner wrote: »

Such a bad manager.

He's somewhat lucky in that he gets to keep this season gone off those stats though!!!

Lord TSC

CSF wrote: »

Would you have been happy for him to stay if United got that extra point somewhere and pipped City to 4th?

Not Mick, but for me, no, I still would have wanted him gone. The goal at he start of the season was a title challenge and he failed miserably at that. On top of playing poor football all season, edge took the team back a step this season in terms of results. There was nothing to suggest he would do anything next season but have us in a scrap for forth again.

Andersonisgod

M!Ck^ wrote: »

No

Utd failed to qualify for the Champions League

That's why he was sacked

It's a results business

Not disputing that at all. What I am disputing is the application of his players. I would also have no problem questioning their ability to implement Van Gaal's systems.

Andersonisgod

Korat wrote: »

You're a Chelsea fan and it must make your eyes bleed and stomach turn to see the hero that you first roped your wagon to become Manchester United manager.

Genuinely no. I've made my point already on Mourinho. A wildly successful coach whose last 2 jobs have been failures and who, increasingly, looks like a coach from a bygone era.

Korat

CSF wrote: »

Would you have been happy for him to stay if United got that extra point somewhere and pipped City to 4th?

Imagine the atmosphere now even after winning the FA Cup, next season is more Van Gaal? Only the most ardent Mourinho haters could countenance that.

CSF

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not Mick, but for me, no, I still would have wanted him gone. The goal at he start of the season was a title challenge and he failed miserably at that. On top of playing poor football all season, edge took the team back a step this season in terms of results. There was nothing to suggest he would do anything next season but have us in a scrap for forth again.

I don't think a title challenge was a realistic goal this year with that squad (if Van Gaal is responsible for player recruitment then he takes the blame for that too) but considering you didn't even get 4th, he couldn't have had any complaints. If you get 4th and win the FA Cup then I think it would have been harsh. That's a better season than Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Tottenham, pretty much everyone other than Leicester. But obviously that didn't happen so it means nothing.

CSF

Korat wrote: »

Imagine the atmosphere now even after winning the FA Cup, next season is more Van Gaal? Only the most ardent Mourinho haters could countenance that.

No I agree with you with the way things ended up, but I wouldn't have agreed with you had he come out of the season with a Champions League spot and a trophy. Such are the fine margins in football.

deaddonkey15

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Genuinely no. I've made my point already on Mourinho. A wildly successful coach whose last 2 jobs have been failures and who, increasingly, looks like a coach from a bygone era.

Strange that you regard Mourinho a failure at Madrid for not winning a CL yet regard Pep at Bayern as a roaring success. At least Mourinho had arguably the best club side ever to battle against at Madrid. It's cannon fodder for Pep in Germany for the most part.

Korat

CSF wrote: »

No I agree with you with the way things ended up, but I wouldn't have agreed with you had he come out of the season with a Champions League spot and a trophy. Such are the fine margins in football.

Being so close makes it worse in my mind. There wasn't a high standard this year in the PL. If Utd had given it an all or nothing shot in just a few games I think we'd be in the CL. LVG played safe too often.

Francie Barrett

Ed Woodward clearly has no idea on how to run a football club.

Giggsy11

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Ed Woodward clearly has no idea on how to run a football club.

Exactly, imagine appointing one of the best managers in the world. Who would make such decisions.

astonaidan

Johner wrote: »

Such a bad manager.

Complete chancer :pac:

mansize

Maybe Man United and Mourinio were made for each other

Rayne Wooney

mansize wrote: »

Maybe Man United and Mourinio were made for each other

Winners do seek out winners

astonaidan

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Strange that you regard Mourinho a failure at Madrid for not winning a CL yet regard Pep at Bayern as a roaring success. At least Mourinho had arguably the best club side ever to battle against at Madrid. It's cannon fodder for Pep in Germany for the most part.

You just havent seen the light, its harder to win the bundesliga than CL and LaLiga all while changing the culture of a whole country just in time so they can win the world cup

Andersonisgod

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Strange that you regard Mourinho a failure at Madrid for not winning a CL yet regard Pep at Bayern as a roaring success. At least Mourinho had arguably the best club side ever to battle against at Madrid. It's cannon fodder for Pep in Germany for the most part.

Cannon fodder: Borussia Dortmund just finished with the highest total number of points for a team in 2nd place in the history of the Bundesliga....cannon fodder.

MD1990

Real Madrid broke records under Mourinho in 11/12 though. Most goals scored & most points in a La Liga season.