Being witty with women

Riders Of Rohan

mzungu wrote: »

That's absolutely terrible advice, and it borders on that PUA nonsense. In no way should any anybody engage in that BS. To the OP, if you're still reading do not do any of what is bolded above.

I think I might have worded it better, maybe be cheeky is a better way of saying it, I just cant think of the word I want so went with bully. Youre reading what i say wrong. This isnt just for women, men generally like people if you "bully" them, crap Ill think of the word and then you will understand what Im trying to say

ongarboy

Riders Of Rohan wrote: »

I think I might have worded it better, maybe be cheeky is a better way of saying it, I just cant think of the word I want so went with bully. Youre reading what i say wrong. This isnt just for women, men generally like people if you "bully" them, crap Ill think of the word and then you will understand what Im trying to say

I think you may possibly mean slagging or teasing in jest but I still think that's poor advice to OP. If you are meeting someone for the first time or in the very early stages of dating, you're still trying to gauge their personality and sense of humour. Introducing jokey put downs that they may not get or misconstrue will only be viewed at best as dorky or weird humour or at worst, downright insulting and certainly will not be interpreted as witty.

Personally, if I had to project an unnatural witticism that was not part of my personality or natural sense of humour as a seduction strategy, I don't think I'd ever have scored...or even made platonic friends for that matter. I'm not a comedian but am known for my dry, sarcastic and deadpan humour usually in the form of taking someone down a peg or two. I only know it works based on the LOL reactions of my listener/audience who would know me anyway. It's not something I deliver with strangers as (a) I wouldn't be confident delivering such humour with people I wasn't familiar with and (b) as advised above, I wouldn't want to risk offence if they misinterpreted what I was saying.

If you have to force a joke out of your mouth, it simply will not be funny imo.

Otis_taylor2

Otis_taylor2 wrote: »

How do you be naturally funny?

Well as other people have said - and you say it yourself here in your own OP - you can not force being "naturally" anything. That is what the word "naturally" means in this context. But one can practice and get a little better at it. I will never come as close to being the "natural" golf player that Tiger Woods is for example - but I could certainly experience the game a lot more and improve.

The same is true of humour. You might not get the "natural" level of comedy that your top comedians have. But you can get more experience - and with observation start to learn a _little_ more about interplay of words and timing and so forth.

Even the professionals do this. Tommy Tiernan for example did a series of - I think 30 consecutive - gigs for free in a small venue in Galway. He did this to try and out mould some new material - by throwing it out - varying it over time - and observing how different timings or phrasings would work and reactions it would get. And I made a point of going to the first - middle(ish) - and last days of this "tour".

And there genuinely was an improvement in the material in my subjective opinion - and in the reactions of the audience. His material was essentially the same but it - and he - through practice and observation - simply got better.

That said however - there are probably things you can do to let your own level of natural humor shine through. What those things are however would be hard to say without knowing you.

But as an example - in the last few weeks I had a friend come to me worried about his lack of love life. He has been single so long he is one of those people who described his virginity as having "grown back".

Apparently he was under the impression I know about these things or am some sort of guru. But I decided to step up and try and work with him. I have even documented/blogged the entire experience privately to one of the regular posters on this area of the forum. It has been fun.

So we went speed dating so I could observe him "at work". And one thing I did notice was he was not really engaging with the other person - or really listening that closely to them or noticing much about them.

So that was one of the things I worked on (I even set up a scenario to totally shock him into realising just how bad his attention was - but that's another long story and I stole a lot of it from other sources when I was thinking it up too).

And I noticed when he worked on this - his comedy and wittiness also improved. Why? Because a lot of humour and wit is observational. You observe something - take in that data - and put a humorous spin on it before feeding it back.

So when he was not processing or noticing the data - he had no material for wit or humour. But as he paid more attention - his natural wit took care of itself because it had data to work with now.

So by working on his attention deficit - especially by very painfully and viciously making him aware of it - as a knock on effect he simply got funnier.

And - as you say in your OP - it was more spontaneous because it was in context and based on information he just took in - rather than little witty remarks and the like he had learned off in the past.

But that is only one example. The point being there could be secondary things to work on that will impact positively on your natural wit and humour.

We have a follow up Speed Dating session in early June. I am looking forward to it and seeing how this - and all the other things I worked on/through with him - pan out in the second attempt

Otis_taylor2 wrote: »

I don't seem to have that sense of wittiness as part of my personality or i've lost it somewhere in the past.

All the above said however I would not like to leave you thinking that being witty is the Mecca of social interaction or impressing the opposite sex. It is just one attribute and it will work with some people and not with others. As another user said you can put on the same performance of wit to two people or groups of people - and go down a treat or a bomb with each. And the question to ask yourself is do you want to impress people with who you are - or with a front you put on?

Think of it like audio equalisers on a stereo. Everyone like different settings. Sometimes massively different. So just because the "witty" setting on your stereo might be down low - other things will be high and low too. And whatever your settings and levels - there will be groups of people who will like it and groups who will not.

Otis_taylor2 wrote: »

I see myself sliding towards being more serious/formal in most conversations with women.

From the thread title down through the post you talk a lot about conversations with women, talking with women, being witty specifically with women. I wonder at that to a certain degree. How different do you think you have to be in your talking to women as opposed to men specifically? I am not sure they have to be 100% - do not get me wrong - but how different to you believe you have to act?

Perhaps if you remove or at least erode the divide in your head between talking to men - and talking to women - and proceed instead with simply "talk or be witty with _people_" you might find some - most - or even all your issues go away because you are falsely thinking you have to somehow do it differently with one sex over another where in fact you do not.

Otis_taylor2 wrote: »

I don't have a problem talking to women per se, i.e but after the initial contact i just feel i come across as less interesting, not much to talk or i'm driving the conversation to boredom, which made me think if its also of the sense of wittiness that is missing.

At this point in your posts however I find myself wondering if you have misdiagnosed yourself entirely. You appear to have identified an issue that bothers you - and diagnosed a low level of wittiness as being the case. But I wonder if that diagnosis is correct.

Some of the people who are the most interesting to me - in an ongoing way after the initial contact where - lets face it - most of us put our best foot forward and show a lot of our best cards - they are interesting because they _are_ interesting. Not because they are witty. Some are witty and humorous. Some are dead pan serious all the time.

But what they have in common is an enjoyment of their life - what they put into it and get out of it - pushing their own limits and boundaries - new and varied experiences. In short they have material to talk about and be interesting about and - the most interesting people of all I find - that they are passionate about and their passion comes across in how they talk about their life's contents.

In fact I have been more interested one time in a conversation at a party with an accountant about his work - which he described with interest and passion - than I was that same night with a monotone boring guy who was telling me about all his parachute jumps and hand gliding and deep sea diving in a way that was matter of fact - detailed - but lacked any impression he was deriving any pleasure at all from it.

If someone is just doing "wake up - eat - work - eat - gaming and/or television - sleep" 7 days a week for example - then they are going to very quickly stop being interesting after the initial meeting no matter how witty and funny they are - or think they are.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

If he continues to just be himself without putting some effort into it he's likely gonna get nowhere.

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe it's just me and even though I know it is meant with genuine empathy and in the best spirit, but the "just be yourself" mantra is lazy as all hell. Let's make it so easy, because you're perfect as you are. Eh no.

I think a lot of people misunderstand the mantra "be yourself". And the common understanding of it is something that you describe perfectly as "lazy as hell". Because a lot of people do think it means "You are perfect - do not change anything - just keep on keeping on like you are".

I think "be yourself" means something deeper though. It means stay true to yourself and do not try to be something you are not - but still engage in self improvement all the time whenever and however possible.

In other words "Be yourself" to me means "Be yourself - just be _more_ of it". Find what makes you you and get more involved in it - improve it - better it - expand it - explore it - and above all enjoy it.

Contrasted to - say - doing something or putting on a front of something - that simply is not "you" - like trying to be "naturally funny" when you are not that person - or taking up dance lessons even if you have no interest in it - just because someone told you the girl:boy ration is favourable in dance classes and so on.

So yea "Be yourself" as in stay true to who you are - but do anything you can to better who you are too. And the first step in that - find out who you are. Some people genuinely do not seem to know IME - caught up in some default they ended up being - and/or in trying to be what others expect or want them to be.

Wibbs wrote: »

Again good advice, but how? Double how. You may as well say "just swim" to someone who has never learned. Never mind that different people have different levels of "ease".

Indeed - as all the people you try to put at ease will be different - there is no fit all formula for putting people at their ease. I think there generally positive moves people _can_ make however which will have a generally positive effect on larger percentiles though.

I could probably write a novel (or another novel given the length of this post) on examples of this but..... _One_ I worked on with the guy I mention Speed Dating above is that he will make some comments - sometimes witty or otherwise - designed to make a connection with the other person. Which is a good thing - when you make connections that generally puts people at ease.

But he almost invariably did so putting a negative spin on the comment. The best example I can think of because he did it 5 times on 5 successive speed dates was he essentially said "God speed dating is _so_ awkward isn't it - it makes you feel awful and uncomfortable".

Which is well intentioned. He realises the other person probably also feels out of their comfort zone in speed dating and he wants to establish that connection with them. A good thing.

BUT not only is this a negative comment which will result in negative mood - but it is also a suggestion - the other person is now going to be consciously focused on negative emotions like discomfort. It can become self fulfilling in a way.

So I worked on him saying essentially the same things - but with a more positive spin. This was general work but to apply it to the example above he would now say something like "Wow speed dating is _so_ outside my comfort zone. its quite exciting and exhilarating don't you think?".

So now you have established the same connection - but positively - focusing the mind on positive feelings and enjoyment of even the bad feelings - and ended in a question to let the other person join in your expression.

As I said there are other examples of that - and other examples of general things one can work on. No "one size fits all" solution that is guaranteed to put someone at ease - but certainly the right moves to increase the probability you can put any one person randomly at ease.

Wibbs wrote: »

This one really winds me up TBH.

Agreed - though I do not let it wind me up - I would certainly view anyone honestly giving that "advice" (rather than just being tongue in cheek) - as being inexperienced, immature, sexist and manipulative. As if the opposite sex is to be best manipulated for maximum gain - rather than treated as an individual human being with all the foibles and failings that ones own sex shares. The "advice" makes the opposite sex sound more like the current dictator of North Korea - someone to be pandered to and their ego massaged merely so you yourself can get through your day with the minimum of effort or fuss.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It was more the certainty that people will find the real you interesting. People will or they won't.

I think the point is more than _some_ people will find you interesting for who you are and _some_ people will find you interesting for who you pretend to be.

And whichever one of those you choose to be _some_ people will not be interested in you at all.

So at the end of the day it comes down to a simple question - do you want people to like or even love you for who you are - or for some "front" you erect and then have to maintain forever?

I know where my choice is. Others may - of course - vary.

RDM_83 again

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the point is more than _some_ people will find you interesting for who you are and _some_ people will find you interesting for who you pretend to be.

And whichever one of those you choose to be _some_ people will not be interested in you at all.

So at the end of the day it comes down to a simple question - do you want people to like or even love you for who you are - or for some "front" you erect and then have to maintain forever?

I know where my choice is. Others may - of course - vary.

Isn't their an argument of fake it till you make it though?
Like if a guy is insecure about his sex life casual sex will improve that and clear his head, it won't make continuing a relationship any easier but if he will probably have more chance of starting one if he doesn't have his tongue hanging out of his head when he starts chatting to a girl or conversely loads of self doubt. This behavior may end up toxic in the long term but short term or in the right headspace would it harm?

I know its a bit of a cliche but I'm a firm believer in the idea that women can smell desperation.

Also OP do you have many women friends? why not head out/hang around with them a bit more, you'l see that girls can have just as crude a sense of humour as lads and can get just as "messy".

One thing I am not sure about, is being witty going to make a huge difference on its own, obviously not making social faux pas or coming across as a knob is a hindrance but isn't being witty simply the icing on the cake, making somebody thats already appealing more so? (and I would argue confidence is probably more important than wit anyway).

Esel

Those megaposts above... whew!

I have a good memory for jokes, and often something that comes up in conversation will remind me of an appropriate one or two. The shorter the better...

And remember to smile!

RDM_83 again

RDM_83 again wrote: »

This behavior may end up toxic in the long term but short term or in the right headspace would it harm?

Assuming the person he becomes emotionally invested in is not one of the ones he was approaching in this fashion? It is certainly not a risk I would have imagined myself ever taking. The more of a fake front one puts on - the more of a risk there is that it will come back to bite them. Their choice of course. But it certainly would not be for me.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I know its a bit of a cliche but I'm a firm believer in the idea that women can smell desperation.

Not something I have ever believed specifically. But I do think _people_ regardless of gender can sometimes sense an agenda. And if one is approaching another person with an agenda to use that person as a means to an end - rather than as an individual in and of themselves - they will probably pick up on that.

And a lot of people after sex for purely the sake of sex - will probably set off such alarms. Which I suppose could be mistaken for "smelling the desperation".

astonaidan

Just adding about the desperation thing, if I a guy can see another guy wants to so badly have sex with a girl, she will also notice it.

It is the worst thing I see guys doing when Im in a bar, I kinda want to slap them

I watched two guys following a girl around all night, they bought her drinks and Im sure they were thinking one of us will get her, it annoyed me so much how stupid they were being I sent my brother up to hit on her and take her home :o

The girl had no notion of going off with either, I felt it was in a weird way the nicest thing to do.

Wibbs

And our resident pet PUA rereg gets a banning.

cantdecide

There are physical constraints on wit and banter on expectations that will be projected on you, IMO. I think there's an expectation that certain physical traits are expected to equate to certain character traits. People often make lazy judgments even in romantic endeavors.

Myself, I'm pretty big, burly guy and I've always felt that it has been a limitation to me. The physical me and the character are a mismatch. I was accused of being intimidating on first introduction by a female colleague just last weekend.

Earlier, self deprecation was being discussed and I think I default to it and I think I can be quite funny about it. However, I'm quiet and shy at first and someone with no prior expectations of me (eg a friend's endorsement) tend to be quite defensive around me (often blatantly). In group settings (eg starting a new job) where I must try and integrate, people can be downright reluctant to warm to me. Move forward in time and things change drastically.

These occurrences follow me into romantic endeavors. I've never had a successful date with a complete stranger.

We Wuz Kangz

It's not something you can learn later in life. It's a skill you develop as a child, think of the cheeky young lad who all the mothers love, he'll grow up to be the player. The only advice I can give is tease them and avoid giving straight answers. Of course you have temper it sometimes. Constant teasing will get on her nerves and make you look weird. So many men have very poor social skills and don't know when to roll back the humor.

rjpf1980

Otis_taylor2 wrote: »

Hi all,

This is a question i've been meaning to ask here for very very long time. How does one be witty when talking to women. How do you build that skill of wittiness or sense of humour? How do you be naturally funny?

I believe it also has to be spontaneous (as the conversation goes) and 'being prepared' to be funny is pointless. I understand it also depends on one's personality.

I don't seem to have that sense of wittiness as part of my personality or i've lost it somewhere in the past. I don't think i have any problems chatting up with anyone on the street (i think), although I see myself sliding towards being more serious/formal in most conversations with women.

So ladies and gentlemen, would you have any advice on how to be witty when talking to women, or how to be naturally funny?

All advices are welcomed

Just be yourself. Don't try to be something you are not.

the whole year inn

cantdecide wrote: »

There are physical constraints on wit and banter on expectations that will be projected on you, IMO. I think there's an expectation that certain physical traits are expected to equate to certain character traits. People often make lazy judgments even in romantic endeavors.

Myself, I'm pretty big, burly guy and I've always felt that it has been a limitation to me. The physical me and the character are a mismatch. I was accused of being intimidating on first introduction by a female colleague just last weekend.

Earlier, self deprecation was being discussed and I think I default to it and I think I can be quite funny about it. However, I'm quiet and shy at first and someone with no prior expectations of me (eg a friend's endorsement) tend to be quite defensive around me (often blatantly). In group settings (eg starting a new job) where I must try and integrate, people can be downright reluctant to warm to me. Move forward in time and things change drastically.

These occurrences follow me into romantic endeavors. I've never had a successful date with a complete stranger.

I was reading this post for awhile and wanted to see where it went and finally decided to reply tonight but I had to reply to your post first,I am also a STOUT man and was told before i am intimidating,which was something I didnt like even tho .
Going in head strong is never good,I am not shy but take the back teat on the first approach is the best way in my opinion anyway.

Anyway to the op you want to be wity/funny to girls,why just girls?I dont believe for a second you cant learn or grow to be witty/funny.
Comedians perfect there set long before the final product,and once they have it they repeat it every other night.
This for me is a great example of being funny and witty

Carson nailed it!
Anyway watch a few comedians/shows what try and pick up a few things see it works.I think if you can get a few laughs wit will come naturally to you.

eeguy

YouTookMyName wrote: »

1. Just be yourself
2. Make them feel at ease
3. The golden rule - always let them have their way.

It's easiest in the long run.

Nearly 70 posts in and no one had told Wibbs this is a Fr Ted quote.

the whole year inn

eeguy wrote: »

Nearly 70 posts in and no one had told Wibbs this is a Fr Ted quote.

Not quite 70 posts and no body posted

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I am looking forward to it and seeing how this - and all the other things I worked on/through with him - pan out in the second attempt

4/12. 4 Girls out of the twelve put him down as "want to meet again". Up from _0_ the last time I think I am on to a statistically dubious winner

Wibbs

eeguy wrote: »

Nearly 70 posts in and no one had told Wibbs this is a Fr Ted quote.

Nobody tells me anything E. #sadfaceloner But...