Missing man at the Cliffs of Moher.

SEPT 23 1989

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yea, very close to 60 but not till next year.

it must be him so

brooke 2

UpCork wrote: »

Very little news coverage about this.

I suppose the silence is, as other posters, have said, to protect the persons' privacy, if it in fact turned out that he just went on the missing list for a while and had not, in fact taken his own life.

I remember when the son of Chef Derry Clarke was in a coma, the press reported it as an accident. The family wanted it this way, should he come through, in order to protect his reputation etc. Sadly, he passed away and it was only then that this parents revealed that he had in fact taken his own life

Iirc, it was not revealed until after the funeral.
I believe some staff at the hospital were uneasy that reports re the manner of his death were inaccurate. His mother has subsequently said that there is still a stigma attached to suicide. I happen to agree with her. I am aware of a few fairly high profile people who have had suicide deaths in their families, but were not reported as such.

brooke 2

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yea, very close to 60 but not till next year.

That is the age of the person whose name has been mentioned a few times already. The secrecy kind of bugs me, as if Joe/Mary Blogs went missing, it would be all over the media. They would not be according much privacy to those individuals.

IvyTheTerrible

brooke 2 wrote: »

That is the age of the person whose name has been mentioned a few times already. The secrecy kind of bugs me, as if Joe/Mary Blogs went missing, it would be all over the media. They would not be according much privacy to those individuals.

I disagree. When other similar incidents happen, either the name isn't released til a body has been identified and family have been informed, or they say that "family do not wish to release the name". I don't see why this unfortunate individual should not be given the same respect. I find the speculation distasteful.

Samaris

Well, if it was someone well-known, it'd become a media circus fairly rapidly, and if it turns out not to be him, it will have interfered with the search, caused huge distress to the family and the person in question.

So yeah, I'm pretty okay with it all being kept quiet until there's something actually known.

septictank

I think it was on the Marion Finucane show someone said they rang GK and he was fine.

Samaris

septictank wrote: »

I think it was on the Marion Finucane show someone said they rang GK and he was fine.

Exactly why there shouldn't be speculating going on in the media.

"No, I didn't kill myself/fall off a cliff. Thank you for my first awkward question of the day."

brooke 2

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I disagree. When other similar incidents happen, either the name isn't released til a body has been identified and family have been informed, or they say that "family do not wish to release the name". I don't see why this unfortunate individual should not be given the same respect. I find the speculation distasteful.

A young man went missing not too far from there a few months ago - everybody knew who he was long before his body was found. The reason people do not want to release the name is because, in spite of all the publicity and sympathy in the media for mental illness, there is still a stigma attached to suicide. If he were killed in a car accident, there would be no such reticence in publishing his name.

UpCork

Yes. There is a huge stigma around suicide, but then here in Ireland, there seems to be a stigma around so many things.
I am not saying this poor man's name should be blasted all over the media and that the red top hacks should be hounding his family, but how is 'covering it up' helping to break the stigma. Surely the more we talk about these things, the sooner the stigma will decrease?

drunkmonkey

UpCork wrote: »

the sooner the stigma will decrease?

Shouldn't it be stigmatised though, having a situation where it's acceptable and not frowned upon isn't the ideal either.
If you decide to leave las vegas and a week long search happens, all your assets should be frozen and given to the state to cover the costs, anything left then given back to the family, we need a major deterrent so people will go get help.

UpCork

Sooner or later something will have to come out in the media. As this person is of high profile, someone will notice he is not around.

IvyTheTerrible

I think there is a difference between waiting til a body is identified/family informed and removing stigma from suicide, tbh.

Avatar MIA

septictank wrote: »

I think it was on the Marion Finucane show someone said they rang GK and he was fine.

That would be good news. Have worked with him briefly in the past, and had a soft spot for the auld divil.

eviltwin

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I think there is a difference between waiting til a body is identified/family informed and removing stigma from suicide, tbh.

Surely his family know he's missing at this stage. If he's well known it could actually be helpful to release his name to the media. No one knows for certain he's killed himself, it could be a tragic accident or he might have left his car there and went somewhere else, wouldn't be the first time.

IvyTheTerrible

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I think there is a difference between waiting til a body is identified/family informed and removing stigma from suicide, tbh.

Few years back there was a case of a boxer that had hung himself. Some heartless bastard posted a tweet about it, pretty much so they could get the attention. The deceased's father found out about his son's death through this. Before he had been notified properly.

eviltwin wrote: »

Surely his family know he's missing at this stage. If he's well known it could actually be helpful to release his name to the media. No one knows for certain he's killed himself, it could be a tragic accident or he might have left his car there and went somewhere else, wouldn't be the first time.

Put it this way; would you want the media discussing your loved one's death before you hear about it properly, knowing for sure? Imagine this is your father. Your brother. Your uncle.

IvyTheTerrible

Deleted User wrote: »

Few years back there was a case of a boxer that had hung himself. Some heartless bastard posted a tweet about it, pretty much so they could get the attention. The deceased's father found out about his son's death through this. Before he had been notified properly.

I remember that, it was awful.
When my brother killed himself, one of the emergency responders who came out to the house texted one of her neighbours, who then proceeded to spread the news around. One of my mum's work colleagues came out to the house to "sympathise" before my parents had even had time to call me or my siblings. Some people seem to think "news" is more important than letting a family come to terms with something.

UpCork

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I remember that, it was awful.
When my brother killed himself, one of the emergency responders who came out to the house texted one of her neighbours, who then proceeded to spread the news around. One of my mum's work colleagues came out to the house to "sympathise" before my parents had even had time to call me or my siblings. Some people seem to think "news" is more important than letting a family come to terms with something.

That's awful.

It's like someone has to be the 'first one' to comment or to sympathise. To be seen to be the person doing it, instead of minding their own business and letting family/friends deal with it.

That emergency responder should have been severely reprimanded for doing that - what about patient confidentiality and all that?

JustShon

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Shouldn't it be stigmatised though, having a situation where it's acceptable and not frowned upon isn't the ideal either.
If you decide to leave las vegas and a week long search happens, all your assets should be frozen and given to the state to cover the costs, anything left then given back to the family, we need a major deterrent so people will go get help.

I can see where you're coming from, and there is a tendency to kind of glorify people who kill themselves; just look at any case of suicide and you'll hear them say wonderful things about the person who died. Need a shortcut to people thinking the world of you? All you have to do is die.

However the problem with stigmatising suicide is that it isn't the suicidal person who has to deal with the stigma. It's the poor bastards like IvyTheTerrible and myself, left alive, who have to put up with people's ignorant opinions on the matter.

timmythesheep

The discovery was made shortly after 8am this morning by members of the Doolin Coastguard team in an area known as Doonacore Bay, south of Doolin Point.
The crew were conducting a shoreline search at the time in connection to the disappearance of a Dublin businessman.

The deceased man's remains will be transferred to Ennis General Hospital for a post mortem and formal identification, the Coastguard told Independent.ie.
The Coastguard have been carrying out sea searches off the coast of Co Clare for a businessman who was feared to have fallen into the sea.

The missing man's car was first spotted on the evening of Thursday, May 12th.
It is believed that the missing man, who is aged in his 60s, is a legal professional from the Dublin area.

It has not been confirmed if the remains discovered this morning are connected to the missing man.

eviltwin

Deleted User wrote: »

Put it this way; would you want the media discussing your loved one's death before you hear about it properly, knowing for sure? Imagine this is your father. Your brother. Your uncle.

I'm not talking about his death, so far all we know is that he is missing. There is every possibility that he parked his car there are got a tourist bus to some other location. If he is dead and when his body is recovered of course I would not want the media to report on it until his family have been told.

ETA: apologies just seen the update that a body has been found, now the comments make sense. you are absolutely right Boneyarsebogman

freshpopcorn

I know there's a missing persons page on Facebook and it often reports missing persons on it.
If a body is recovered the comments are always saying something need to be done about mental health/etc. Without the person having any idea about what happened to the person. It really drives me mad.

Augme

It should be up to the family to decide if the name of a missing family member gets released, not the gossips on the internet.

cowboyBuilder

UpCork wrote: »

That's awful.

It's like someone has to be the 'first one' to comment or to sympathise. To be seen to be the person doing it, instead of minding their own business and letting family/friends deal with it.

That emergency responder should have been severely reprimanded for doing that - what about patient confidentiality and all that?

Indeed and facebook and other social media has brought this to a new low.
:mad:

freshpopcorn

Augme wrote: »

It should be up to the family to decide if the name of a missing family member gets released, not the gossips on the internet.

How would this work just out of interest?
Would the person still have to report it to the Gardai? Or could they say they didn't want to report it.
If they had to report to to the Gardai could they stop the Gardai from releasing the name?
I just think it would be very helpful for somebody who might want to cover something up.

drunkmonkey

JustShon wrote: »

However the problem with stigmatising suicide is that it isn't the suicidal person who has to deal with the stigma. It's the poor bastards like IvyTheTerrible and myself, left alive, who have to put up with people's ignorant opinions on the matter.

Sorry for you loss can't even imagine it. Fortunate that when one of my friends was going through it he reached out and got the help he needed. I don't know what can be done, there's no right way to approach it or even know there's something going on.
Should people have to go somewhere and get emergency counselling the minute a mental health problem shows up, I know one person at the moment suffering from depression, only help they've got is a prescription from the doctor, should that nearly be a last resort and should people's families be informed there is a problem by doctors. Something needs to change its gone out of control.

JustShon

freshpopcorn wrote: »

How would this work just out of interest?
Would the person still have to report it to the Gardai? Or could they say they didn't want to report it.
If they had to report to to the Gardai could they stop the Gardai from releasing the name?
I just think it would be very helpful for somebody who might want to cover something up.

Gardai already respect the wishes of the family in regard to name releasing don't they?

The points being made are about busybodies putting the name out there without the family's consent, not the authorities.

drunkmonkey

Augme wrote: »

It should be up to the family to decide if the name of a missing family member gets released, not the gossips on the internet.

A missing person should be publicised, if there is evidence to point to suicide well then it should be up to the family.

UpCork

Exactly. With this case I think it is because the person is high profile everyone expects to know immediately. Which isn't right. He is a private citizen after all.

However, it will be a big news story, particularly if it is who I think it is.

JustShon

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Sorry for you loss can't even imagine it. Fortunate that when one of my friends was going through it he reached out and got the help he needed. I don't know what can be done, there's no right way to approach it or even know there's something going on.
Should people have to go somewhere and get emergency counselling the minute a mental health problem shows up, I know one person at the moment suffering from depression, only help they've got is a prescription from the doctor, should that nearly be a last resort and should people's families be informed there is a problem by doctors. Something needs to change its gone out of control.

People in the system don't give a sh1t. I swallowed a bottle of sleeping pills a few years back, sent a goodbye text to a mate who was a nurse and he rushed around, saved my life.

I don't remember any of it coz I had a significant amount of prescription-grade sedatives in my system but I was taken to the hospital and restrained for a while as well as put on saline etc.

They let me go the next day. Just because I told the doctor I wouldn't do it again. I was lying through my teeth, I just wanted them to take the restraints off and let me go home. They didn't do any assessment or anything, didn't try to set up any follow-up counseling, nothing like that. I told them I wouldn't do it again and that was enough.

drunkmonkey

You should have been assigned somebody to look after your case, maybe a house visit with a parent or friend there. They should have been all over you. Barring order on any prescription drugs by any doctor. A need to show ID for even non prescription medicines, there's loads could be done. The HSE needs to be run like a proactive business.
The drugs need to be controlled on a nation wide basis, I know you can always get your hand on them but not everyone is street smart and the doctors/pharmacy is where a lot come from.
Did you even get some kind of help pack or a number to call in an emergency. Even little things could help.
Can't believe they are so lax about it, sure he'll be grand attitude isn't working. Thankfully you are but they need to sort this out.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

JustShon wrote: »

People in the system don't give a sh1t. I swallowed a bottle of sleeping pills a few years back, sent a goodbye text to a mate who was a nurse and he rushed around, saved my life.

I don't remember any of it coz I had a significant amount of prescription-grade sedatives in my system but I was taken to the hospital and restrained for a while as well as put on saline etc.

They let me go the next day. Just because I told the doctor I wouldn't do it again. I was lying through my teeth, I just wanted them to take the restraints off and let me go home. They didn't do any assessment or anything, didn't try to set up any follow-up counseling, nothing like that. I told them I wouldn't do it again and that was enough.

I'm glad you're here to share your story and thank you for speaking about it. It's so important. Acute mental health services in this country are a sick joke, particularly for the most at risk group, ie young men

JustShon

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You should have been assigned somebody to look after your case, maybe a house visit with a parent or friend there. They should have been all over you. Barring order on any prescription drugs by any doctor. A need to show ID for even non prescription medicines, there's loads could be done. The HSE needs to be run like a proactive business.
The drugs need to be controlled on a nation wide basis, I know you can always get your hand on them but not everyone is street smart and the doctors/pharmacy is where a lot come from.
Did you even get some kind of help pack or a number to call in an emergency. Even little things could help.
Can't believe they are so lax about it, sure he'll be grand attitude isn't working. Thankfully you are but they need to sort this out.

They gave me sh1te all. I agree, they should've done way more at the time but I was in one of Dublin's many over-worked and understaffed hospitals and I suspect they wanted to get rid of me just as much as I wanted to get out of there so when I said "honest doc I'll never do it again" they were more than happy to say "case closed so" and send me on my way.

Granted we don't know if this case was a suicide yet but given it's the Cliffs of Moher it seems quite likely. The place is plastered with signs with hotline numbers on them for those who need to seek help.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You should have been assigned somebody to look after your case, maybe a house visit with a parent or friend there. They should have been all over you. Barring order on any prescription drugs by any doctor. A need to show ID for even non prescription medicines, there's loads could be done. The HSE needs to be run like a proactive business.
The drugs need to be controlled on a nation wide basis, I know you can always get your hand on them but not everyone is street smart and the doctors/pharmacy is where a lot come from.
Did you even get some kind of help pack or a number to call in an emergency. Even little things could help.
Can't believe they are so lax about it, sure he'll be grand attitude isn't working. Thankfully you are but they need to sort this out.

Usually, a zopiclone overdose is seen a cry for help. The main danger is aspiration.It's indicative of the person who's at their wits end. This with the fact the guy messaged his friends who was a nurse would suggest he wasn't 100% committed to suicide. I do agree that the patient should have been referred. A lot of treatments such as cbt can only be effectively introduced in community.

drunkmonkey

An assigned public health nurse could do a lot, they do it for babies why can't they do it for adults at risk once it's flagged.

JustShon

Deleted User wrote: »

Usually, a zopiclone overdose is seen a cry for help. The main danger is aspiration.It's indicative of the person who's at their wits end. This with the fact the guy messaged his friends who was a nurse would suggest he wasn't 100% committed to suicide. I do agree that the patient should have been referred. A lot of treatments such as cbt can only be effectively introduced in community.

You're not wrong, for once you have the person here to weigh in speculation over whether or not it was a cry for help

However they didn't exactly hear that cry for help did they? How much louder need I have cried than almost ending my life? Perhaps they might have offered help to my corpse had I not called my friend.

JustShon

JustShon wrote: »

You're not wrong, for once you have the person here to weigh in speculation over whether or not it was a cry for help

However they didn't exactly hear that cry for help did they? How much louder need I have cried than almost ending my life? Perhaps they might have offered help to my corpse had I not called my friend.

Sorry. I'm a hospital pharmacist with an interest in mental health. To be honest, even in the UK where I work, mental health isnt the best treated. Usually, once the overdose is dealt with, the patient is usually discharged, a letter will be sent to gp informing him of the admission, patient will encouraged to seek support (asked if family/friend who could help). Ironically, depression is best treated through cbt/ sleep hygiene rather than medication. The problem is arranging the cbt can take ages.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

drunkmonkey wrote: »

An assigned public health nurse could do a lot, they do it for babies why can't they do it for adults at risk once it's flagged.

If you start looking into or ever have the misfortune to become acquainted with the mental health services, you'll be shocked. There are some great people working in them, but at a systemic level it's fcuked. Even if someone is given a phone number to call when they're sent home, I have seen situations where family called that number fifty times and still didn't get help or even a clear answer on where to go for it. I've seen that more than once. Nobody knows where to put teenagers, the notion of them needing help is apparently a new one. Know at least one case where a very sick young man died and explicitly referenced being put in an adult ward as the reason. And if you live outside of a big city, you sure as hell better only get sick during office hours. GPs and A&E staff end up being frontline and they're not equipped, even with the best of intentions.

And that's just acute care, prevention? Bitch please

Stephen Hero

I did the Darkness Into Light walk a couple of weeks ago and have also contributed to Pieta House.

But seeing secrecy like this and deaths being reported inaccurately on an ongoing basis (i.e. suicide not mentioned) are making me regret my generosity.

Want to cover up suicide? Fine but if you think you're getting funding to "raise awareness" then f**k off.

JustShon

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry. I'm a hospital pharmacist with an interest in mental health. To be honest, even in the UK where I work, mental health isnt the best treated. Usually, once the overdose is dealt with, the patient is usually discharged, a letter will be sent to gp informing him of the admission, patient will encouraged to seek support (asked if family/friend who could help). Ironically, depression is best treated through cbt/ sleep hygiene rather than medication. The problem is arranging the cbt can take ages.

No need to apologise, I took no offense from anything you said

My point is that although it was a cry for help, no help was provided. If I'd been better prepared I might have had enough pills squirreled away to go home and do it all again. I never heard a thing from the hospital or my GP or anyone bar friends and family afterwards. I know that medication isn't always the best course of action but they did nothing. They weren't even the ones who saved me, that was my friend, they just stuck me on saline and restrained me for a while.

RoisinD

Whatever about the speculation is to who the person is a very big thank you to the Doolin Coast Guard who have been searching day and night since the person 's car was found at the Cliffs.

They are all voluntary and do trojan work. They had said that they would keep searching until the body was found. This was the 2nd recovery this week. They are a vital part of the community and very much appreciated.

JustShon

Just to clarify by the way. I'm not trying to come at this from a "Poor me, the system wouldn't help me" point of view.

I'm just using myself as a very very first-hand example of how the system handles people with obvious mental health issues.

JustShon

RoisinD wrote: »

Whatever about the speculation is to who the person is a very big thank you to the Doolin Coast Guard who have been searching day and night since the person 's car was found at the Cliffs.

They are all voluntary and do trojan work. They had said that they would keep searching until the body was found. This was the 2nd recovery this week. They are a vital part of the community and very much appreciated.

My godfather has done work with the coast guard out that way, they're brave and dedicated people. They deserve a lot of respect.

LorMal

brooke 2 wrote: »

That is the age of the person whose name has been mentioned a few times already. The secrecy kind of bugs me, as if Joe/Mary Blogs went missing, it would be all over the media. They would not be according much privacy to those individuals.

Jesus, how can you even think like that? You think there is some sort of hierarchy of suffering?
You resent his family being afforded some time to be informed before this goes public?
'This secrecy kind of bugs me'' - well, get over yourself!!

brooke 2

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I think there is a difference between waiting til a body is identified/family informed and removing stigma from suicide, tbh.

He has been missing for days. His family will have been through hell. Speaking as someone who has experienced such an ordeal, I believe it will be a relief to his loved ones that his body is found. I have told very few people that a sibling of mine died by suicide many years ago, mainly because there are still people who refer to suicides as 'incidents like this' and say such things as 'they might have been concerned about his reputation'. I am also aware of other fairly high profile people whose families have concealed the fact that suicide was the cause of the death of their loved one. There is a lot of hypocrisy in the media about the subject. They tend to circle the wagons when it is one of their own. Perhaps it was mentioned in the RTE or TV3 news bulletins that this individual was missing at the Cliffs of Mother, but I did not hear it.

LorMal

Stephen Hero wrote: »

I did the Darkness Into Light walk a couple of weeks ago and have also contributed to Pieta House.

But seeing secrecy like this and deaths being reported inaccurately on an ongoing basis (i.e. suicide not mentioned) are making me regret my generosity.

Want to cover up suicide? Fine but if you think you're getting funding to "raise awareness" then f**k off.

That is just bizarre thinking.
You want Pieta House to 'F**k O**' ?????

brooke 2

eviltwin wrote: »

Surely his family know he's missing at this stage. If he's well known it could actually be helpful to release his name to the media. No one knows for certain he's killed himself, it could be a tragic accident or he might have left his car there and went somewhere else, wouldn't be the first time.

If it was something other than suicide, a car accident perhaps, his name would be out there. No amount of 'Darkness into Light' processions will remove the stigma of suicide, as can be seen from some of these posts.

drunkmonkey

JustShon wrote: »

Just to clarify by the way. I'm not trying to come at this from a "Poor me, the system wouldn't help me" point of view.

I'm just using myself as a very very first-hand example of how the system handles people with obvious mental health issues.

It's not designed to help you by the sounds of it. A couple of simple changes could help a lot.
I'm going back to the babies and the amount of check ups for development, house visits by the nurse, check is the food on the right levels in the fridge etc. Was going to post a link to what they do for them but the HSE website is broke right now, then decided i'd look at what it says about suicide prevention on the HSE website, it doesn't work today.
If anyone is thinking of suicide over the next few days, leave it off until next weekend there maybe some useful information on the HSE website.

Honestly I think we should sell the HSE to the NHS, they seem to have it a lot more together, at least their website works.

s4uv3

brooke 2 wrote: »

If it was something other than suicide, a car accident perhaps, his name would be out there. No amount of 'Darkness into Light' processions will remove the stigma of suicide, as can be seen from some of these posts.

Ehh, the body recovered this am hasn't been identified yet, and likely family and friends haven't been notified. Chill the beans like.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

If he's a public figure it could be partly a litigation thing too I'd imagine?

Ruad

brooke 2 wrote: »

He has been missing for days. His family will have been through hell. Speaking as someone who has experienced such an ordeal, I believe it will be a relief to his loved ones that his body is found. I have told very few people that a sibling of mine died by suicide many years ago, mainly because there are still people who refer to suicides as 'incidents like this' and say such things as 'they might have been concerned about his reputation'. I am also aware of other fairly high profile people whose families have concealed the fact that suicide was the cause of the death of their loved one. There is a lot of hypocrisy in the media about the subject. They tend to circle the wagons when it is one of their own. Perhaps it was mentioned in the RTE or TV3 news bulletins that this individual was missing at the Cliffs of Mother, but I did not hear it.

How do you know the poster you're speaking to hasn't experienced the same thing? The media can't (or shouldn't!) release any names before the body has been identified and family notified, the cause of death doesn't change that.