Europa League Final: Liverpool vs Sevilla; Wednesday 19:45; Setanta Ireland / TV3 /BT

mansize

Liverpool v Sevilla 2nd Half

Paz-CCFC

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Really? It's been mainly continuous heartache and depression for any fan under 30. You do briefly feel for them on another night like this. Briefly

In the last 20 years, they've won five national trophies, a European Cup, a UEFA Cup, including a treble one season, four super cups (English and European), been in a further four national finals and two European ones.

My idea of "continuous heartache and depression" would be lumbering from financial disaster to disaster, court case to court case, successive relegations, not being sure if you're club was going to survive, having your identity stolen ala Wimbledon or Salzburg etc. Not regularly winning trophies in the 3rd/4th best football country in Europe, as well as in Europe itself, and having big days in stadiums like Wembley/the Millennium Stadium every other year.

If the cup success that they've had is supposed to be "heartache", then sign me and my club up for some of that, please.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

super_furry wrote: »

He can take Coutinho with him too. Goes missing more than Madeline McCann in the games that matter.

That child's family is from Liverpool.
Beyond ****ing tasteless.

Flint Fredstone

Peyton Many Chrysanthemum wrote: »

That child's family is from Liverpool.
Beyond ****ing tasteless.

What has where they're from got to do with anything? It's either tasteless or not regardless of that.
She only went missing once so it's a poor reference anyway.

Flint Fredstone

I read somewhere on this forum that only Azpilicueta is ahead of Moreno at LB in England. Crazy what some people see when watching football. Such a terrible defender.

NIMAN

RasTa wrote: »

This, how was they 12/5 to win the game with Liverpool 6/5. Only spotted it beforehand so had chump change on.

People placing bets governs the odds, so that simply means more people in the UK were backing Liverpool, and the bookies have to lower the price to limit their potential losses.

As for the English media, I think they did underestimate Sevilla. A lot of the EPL football fans I spoke to over the last couple of days were coming out with lines like "Pool will stuff that Sevilla team", despite the fact many probably haven't seen Sevilla play any games this season. Its a modern football fan, Sky generation thing to say. They seemed to forget that Sevilla have a fantastic history in this competition and that counts for an awful lot. I think many believe the nonsense of "theres only 2 or 3 decent teams in La Liga" that they tell themselves. Plus Liverpool have only played well in the EL this season in games at Anfield.

In the past I have had arguments with Pool fans when I told them that I didn't think Klopp was the genius he was often made out to be in the media. OK he has a good record, but Liverpool lay down in the 2nd half tonight. They were the better team in the 1st half, and for them to collapse so much in the 2nd, he has to shoulder a lot of that blame (imho). Thats 4 final defeats out of 4 now for him, isn't it?

Anyway, we will see how he does now next season when he has his 'own' team to work with from the start. If I was a Pool fan, I wouldn't be setting my expectations too high.

Omackeral

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Will there be any ramifications for the violence before the game I wonder?

Last time they caused trouble in a European final they ended up expelled for years. I've no idea what started it (not blaming anyone in particular) but I'd sh*t myself if I saw stuff kicking off knowing it could cost my team a spot in Europe potentially. I know nobody died or anything like it and it was very minor in reality but seriously cop the f*ck on like!

The game itself was a fascinating watch for a neutral, a total game of two halves. Sevilla really stepped it up into 5th gear from the get-go in the second half. They wanted it more. Sturridge's goal was a beauty, ingenious even. Liverpool can feel hard done by with a couple of handball shouts but can have no complaints overall IMO. Sevilla are the real deal.

Andersonisgod

Before I go to bed I just want to say, it's headlines like this one from the main story on the Daily Mail's online football section that sum up the attitude of so much of the British press and coverage in regards the game tonight "Klopp's flops: Sloppy Liverpool give away Europa League as they let first-half lead slip to allow Sevilla to cruise to third straight title"

"give away Europa League?" and "to allow Sevilla to cruise" it was never Liverpool's trophy to give away and nobody allowed Sevilla to do anything, they went out there and the took it for themselves. Barney Ronay's match report is far more balanced and impressive.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Last time they caused trouble in a European final they ended up expelled for years. I've no idea what started it (not blaming anyone in particular) but I'd sh*t myself if I saw stuff kicking off knowing it could cost my team a spot in Europe potentially. I know nobody died or anything like it and it was very minor in reality but seriously cop the f*ck on like!

The game itself was a fascinating watch for a neutral, a total game of two halves. Sevilla really stepped it up into 5th gear from the get-go in the second half. They wanted it more. Sturridge's goal was a beauty, ingenious even. Liverpool can feel hard done by with a couple of handball shouts but can have no complaints overall IMO. Sevilla are the real deal.

Up for debate. They flopped in the CL this year. They get another chance to join the big boys.

joeysoap

Swedish referees just don't see handballs. Thierry Henri used this to good advantage in the World Cup match a few years ago. Maybe there's no Specsavers in Sweden? ��

mada999

agggh we were the best team in the first half..scored a goal.. at least 1 handball should have been given...but alas...

didnt come out second half and were rightly beaten... no fúcking leaders there...moreano. go fúck off...too many passengers in fairness


.that is all...some great sevilla fans out tonight,,

dfx-

Another European double for Spain. :cool:

Sevilla are the side that has given Barcelona the biggest problems in the past 18 months, especially the 5-4 defeat in the Super Cup, so it's no surprise they held their title.

I don't get the Moreno hate for this particular defeat*. He made a mistake perhaps, but it was 1-1, it was the reaction to the goal that lost Liverpool the game. The whole team is responsible for that.

*Mind you, he did push Dennis Suarez in the semifinal and no penalty was given..

Nerdlingr

dfx- wrote: »

Another European double for Spain. :cool:

Sevilla are the side that has given Barcelona the biggest problems in the past 18 months, especially the 5-4 defeat in the Super Cup, so it's no surprise they held their title.

I don't get the Moreno hate for this particular defeat*. He made a mistake perhaps, but it was 1-1, it was the reaction to the goal that lost Liverpool the game. The whole team is responsible for that.

*Mind you, he did push Dennis Suarez in the semifinal and no penalty was given..

Moreno is a liability. Has been since he joined us. Tonight is just another example but on a grander scale. We're all sick of him.

NIMAN

Moreno seems to be the scapegoat for Liverpools defeat tonight.

This often happens in football, one guy is picked on. They leave out obvious criticism for others and even the manager.

Osmosis Jones

NIMAN wrote: »

Moreno seems to be the scapegoat for Liverpools defeat tonight.

This often happens in football, one guy is picked on. They leave out obvious criticism for others and even the manager.

Moreno's being heavily criticised, and rightly so, but he's not being made a scapegoat. Most people have said clearly that the team didn't show up in the second half.

NIMAN

Many people on social media are only mentioning Moreno in their criticisms.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Deleted User wrote: »

Up for debate. They flopped in the CL this year. They get another chance to join the big boys.

They had a very difficult group in fairness.They probably would have got through a lot of other groups in the champions league this season.

GreNoLi

Congrats to sevilla, amazing achievement.

Omackeral

Deleted User wrote: »

Up for debate. They flopped in the CL this year. They get another chance to join the big boys.

5 Europa League/Uefa Cups in 11 seasons is phenomenal going, including 3 in a row. No denying that in fairness.

Sugarlumps

Toure at 35...immense performance, top draw finish by Sturridge. That celebration, wouldn't go down well in The George.

BT sports host said at half time, there's no way Liverpool can lose this now. Eh? Talk about a biased station. It was infected with Scousers.

Absolute train wreck in the 2nd half, interviewing Milner straight after losing a final was cruel. After beating Dortmund I expected them to lift the tin foil cup.

With no European football on the horizon, they should excel in the league.

gucci

NIMAN wrote: »

Moreno seems to be the scapegoat for Liverpools defeat tonight.

This often happens in football, one guy is picked on. They leave out obvious criticism for others and even the manager.

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Moreno's being heavily criticised, and rightly so, but he's not being made a scapegoat. Most people have said clearly that the team didn't show up in the second half.

NIMAN wrote: »

Many people on social media are only mentioning Moreno in their criticisms.

BT Sports (Hargreaves, Owen and McManaman) completely ripped him a new one on their coverage. They didnt really have any other analysis to add at all (I turned off 5 mins after game was over)
I would suggest most the social media sheep are just bleating out the same tripe, as they were probably looking at their phone more than the game.

ionadnapokot

Omackeral wrote: »

5 Europa League/Uefa Cups in 11 seasons is phenomenal going, including 3 in a row. No denying that in fairness.

To underline how impressive what Sevilla have achieved under Monchi and Unai Emery look at the lineups from 2014 2015 and 2016.
Only Carrico and Vitolo have started all 3. That is amazing.
Coke was rb in 14. Bench last year. Rmid & switched at ht to CM last night.
Gameiro was on bench in 14&15 and this season has scored 29 goals.
Seriously good team building and coaching.
They are the nearest comparison to Atletico in that regard.

quarryman

So Liverpool put in their place last night and choke when it comes to the big stage, its becoming a trend.

As usual one player gets the blame from Liverpool fans. Normally it Mignolet, last night it was Moreno. There's always a scapegoat.

Instead the truth is that Seville were by far the better team. While they took a while to get going, they could have won by 4 or 5 in the end.

On the subject of blaming Moreno. Watch the 2nd Seville goal back - much better goal than Sturridge's btw. Watch Coutinho completely ball-watch and not cover back goal-side on Banega. Moreno is watching for the run outside by Mariano. Then Vitolo strolls through, nutmegs Lovren and Coke slots past despite a pathetic half tackle by Clyne. There was ineptitude across so many Liverpool players, Moreno had little to do with it. No one seems to be mentioning Lovren getting turned inside out.

For the 3rd goal, Clyne does well to get a tackle in. Can has drifted back and completely lets Coke go, doesn't even look around. Coutinho wanders back to get involved and makes things even worse. (What does he offer other than the very occasional worldie btw?). Coke has the ball presented to him and slots away.

Other than Touré it was a pitiful performance from that Liverpool team. Seville on the other hand picked themselves up after going a goal down and turned it around.

Liverpool fans keep banging on about letting Klopp clear out the squad and put his own players. Klopp himself said:

"I came here because I was really convinced about the qualities of these players and this squad, despite the doubts people had," he said.


The excuse that seemed to be trotted out every time every time Liverpool dropped points in the league was "OH, its not his team."

This guy has now lost his last 5 cup finals. He has made zero improvement in Liverpool's league position since taking over from Rodgers. But no, none of this is the manager's fault. It must be Moreno's.

No Europe next season and there will now be difficulty securing top players. If anything, the opposite will happen. Liverpool are already a feeder club for the likes of Barcelona with Suarez and Torres leaving over the years, with hunger for real success (and achieving it). They may be concious that players like Coutinho and Sturridge will want out now, and they'd be right.

xabi

quarryman wrote: »

So Liverpool put in their place last night and choke when it comes to the big stage, its becoming a trend.

As usual one player gets the blame from Liverpool fans. Normally it Mignolet, last night it was Moreno. There's always a scapegoat.

Instead the truth is that Seville were by far the better team. While they took a while to get going, they could have won by 4 or 5 in the end.

On the subject of blaming Moreno. Watch the 2nd Seville goal back - much better goal than Sturridge's btw. Watch Coutinho completely ball-watch and not cover back goal-side on Banega. Moreno is watching for the run outside by Mariano. Then Vitolo strolls through, nutmegs Lovren and Coke slots past despite a pathetic half tackle by Clyne. There was ineptitude across so many Liverpool players, Moreno had little to do with it. No one seems to be mentioning Lovren getting turned inside out.

For the 3rd goal, Clyne does well to get a tackle in. Can has drifted back and completely lets Coke go, doesn't even look around. Coutinho wanders back to get involved and makes things even worse. (What does he offer other than the very occasional worldie btw?). Coke has the ball presented to him and slots away.

Other than Touré it was a pitiful performance from that Liverpool team. Seville on the other hand picked themselves up after going a goal down and turned it around.

Liverpool fans keep banging on about letting Klopp clear out the squad and put his own players. Klopp himself said:

"I came here because I was really convinced about the qualities of these players and this squad, despite the doubts people had," he said.


The excuse that seemed to be trotted out every time every time Liverpool dropped points in the league was "OH, its not his team."

This guy has now lost his last 5 cup finals. He has made zero improvement in Liverpool's league position since taking over from Rodgers. But no, none of this is the manager's fault. It must be Moreno's.

No Europe next season and there will now be difficulty securing top players. If anything, the opposite will happen. Liverpool are already a feeder club for the likes of Barcelona with Suarez and Torres leaving over the years, with hunger for real success (and achieving it). They may be concious that players like Coutinho and Sturridge will want out now, and they'd be right.

Who do you support?

citytillidie

xabi wrote: »

Who do you support?

Leeds

xabi

citytillidie wrote: »

Leeds

I clicked his name to see what other in depth analysis he had given for his own team but it seems the only soccer related posts are about Liverpool. Do we have closet fan I wonder.

quarryman

Ah the old "Your opinion is invalid because you support team X"

Love that one.

xabi

quarryman wrote: »

Ah the old "Your opinion is invalid because you support team X"

Love that one.

Where did I say that? Your opinion is valid, are we allowed to disagree with it. Why do you only post on Liverpool threads?

ricero

A lot of overeactions in here and the doom and gloom brigade are out in force.
Lfc will be in far better shape next season. I reckon klopp will trim the fat on this squad and bring in some much needed quality in defence and midfield. If the rumors are true and gotze wants to join even without the prospect of champions league football then it will be a huge statement.

LuckyLloyd

quarryman wrote: »

Ah the old "Your opinion is invalid because you support team X"

Love that one.

No your opinion is invalid because your posts on the topic of Liverpool are consistent hateful bile.

quarryman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No your opinion is invalid because your posts on the topic of Liverpool are consistent hateful bile.

Ok let me counter it somewhat.

I do actually think Liverpool are in a better place since Klopp took over. Most of the players have actually improved.

However I think that finger pointing at one player or another is mi-guided.

Klopp has made an improvement, sure. But he may not be the God that Liverpool fans consider him to be. There is a strong possibility that he may reach a ceiling, like he did with Dortmund. Then what?

City, United, Arsenal and maybe Spurs are consistently finishing above Liverpool and they are in the danger or drifting away.

Flint Fredstone

Banega ran the show. Class act. Even during the periods Liverpool were on top he was so composed and efficient in possession.

ionadnapokot

Moreno was terrible.... But stop the bashing. He is not a left back. He is a wing back.
He is not a capable defender. Pretty much widely accepted before this match. But if you are going to play him at left back you have to balance against the risk.
Sevilla played him as a wing back but played with three centre backs. Carrico played in front of the two centre backs season before last and would drop back when the wing backs would bomb forward.
That is supposedly Emre Can role. But it doesn't work. he and the CB were continually out of position last night.
When Sturridge scored that goal last night Moreno was in the box making an overlapping run that dragged Mariano slightly away from Sturridge and opened up the angle for an amazing fin.

DARK-KNIGHT

xabi wrote: »

I clicked his name to see what other in depth analysis he had given for his own team but it seems the only soccer related posts are about Liverpool. Do we have closet fan I wonder.

Tbh the guy made some very valid points. You are just taking offense cos its criticism of liverpool. Engage the post he made, he actually made a few very valid points

mada999

Andersonisgod wrote: »

To be fair to Villareal they just don't have the depth you'd need to challenge seriously on both fronts, and in a one off game like tonight, it's not too difficult to imagine that they could beat Liverpool. Ultimately though this is Sevilla's night and it's a night for Spanish football. There'll be a Spanish Champions league and Europa League winner for 2 years in a row which is ridiculous, even more ridiculous is that neither of those teams is Barcelona this season who won the league and might win the cup. Strength in depth.

Haha 3 years in a row....my bad.

Yup i remember a time not too long ago that there were multiple English teams in the latter stages of the champions league..

Spanish teams are dominating at the moment...I really cant watch Spanish football tbh, the diving and gamesmanship ruin it for me

DARK-KNIGHT

mada999 wrote: »

Yup i remember a time not too long ago that there were multiple English teams in the latter stages of the champions league..

Spanish teams are dominating at the moment...I really cant watch Spanish football tbh, the diving and gamesmanship ruin it for me

The english game is full of diving and you watch that

8-10

I agree that it was certainly not Moreno's fault alone. Yes it's the latest of defensive flaws from him but as others have said, only Toure had a good game out there and when it's your stand in 35 year old centre half who's only playing because of Sakho's circumstances that plays well then everybody is to blame from the coach down. Milner did well in the first half but ultimately we weren't good enough.

In reality I actually feel like Sevilla did a Liverpool on us. I can easily imagine us doing the same to other teams, dominate posession early on but concede a first half goal and then come out in the second half and score early and push on to win. We've done it before. Their first goal was something you've seen Clyne do this season, beat a player get to the byline and square it. The second goal was similar to Coutinho v Dortmund, good low strike well placed from the edge of the box when defending was suspect, and the 3rd was just down to putting pressure on in the box and making mistakes.

Those were the goals we are capable of scoring but they outplayed us and got to us mentally in the same way we have done to others.

Beaten at our own game by a very good team. No complaints about it at all, not the referee, not Moreno, not Klopp. Just beaten well on the day and full credit to Sevilla.

Still the most enjoyable cup run in years and despite that - happy enough we're not in it again next season. 63 games is a huge amount to play in a season and last night really looked like a team playing their 63rd game in a season!

chopperbyrne

8-10 wrote: »

Still the most enjoyable cup run in years and despite that - happy enough we're not in it again next season. 63 games is a huge amount to play in a season and last night really looked like a team playing their 63rd game in a season!

It's only two more matches than the Champions League. If you want a successful team, then they need to get used to playing that many matches every year.

8-10

chopperbyrne wrote: »

It's only two more matches than the Champions League. If you want a successful team, then they need to get used to playing that many matches every year.

It's more matches than anybody else in Europe this season and anyone across all English divisions. Plus throw in a few extra-times in some of those games.

For a team in Europe year-in year-out I agree with you. But Liverpool's squad was not equipped for so many games this season which is why there was a record number of players used and a record number of debutants and why Stephen Caulker was brought in as emergency cover and Danny Ward recalled.

Last night looked like a tired team to me. They shouldn't have been, mainly because of the occasion, but they looked like that.

At least 10 players used this season have no business being in Liverpool's first team.

SantryRed

8-10 wrote: »

It's more matches than anybody else in Europe this season and anyone across all English divisions. Plus throw in a few extra-times in some of those games.

For a team in Europe year-in year-out I agree with you. But Liverpool's squad was not equipped for so many games this season which is why there was a record number of players used and a record number of debutants and why Stephen Caulker was brought in as emergency cover and Danny Ward recalled.

Last night looked like a tired team to me. They shouldn't have been, mainly because of the occasion, but they looked like that.

At least 10 players used this season have no business being in Liverpool's first team.

The team that played last night had enough breaks in the past couple of weeks to be fair. They were just completely outclassed in the 2nd half last night. They completely ran out of ideas. Coutinho needed to be reefed off the minute Sevilla equalised last night for someone like Allen. Coutinho was too much of a passenger all night, but the minute it goes 2-1, you need to hope he can spark some magic into the game to get you back into it.

I really think Klopp bottled that change and it seemed pretty obvious that it needed to be made.

ionadnapokot

SantryRed wrote: »

The team that played last night had enough breaks in the past couple of weeks to be fair. They were just completely outclassed in the 2nd half last night. They completely ran out of ideas. Coutinho needed to be reefed off the minute Sevilla equalised last night for someone like Allen. Coutinho was too much of a passenger all night, but the minute it goes 2-1, you need to hope he can spark some magic into the game to get you back into it.

I really think Klopp bottled that change and it seemed pretty obvious that it needed to be made.

Milner was also a liability in 2nd half. E Can was struggling to get into covering positions. At 1v1 milner should have played deeper, or been instructed to play deeper, Coutinho also.
Team imploded. Qs have to be asked of Klopp and the players.

mada999

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

The english game is full of diving and you watch that

deffo not as bad imo

8-10

SantryRed wrote: »

The team that played last night had enough breaks in the past couple of weeks to be fair. They were just completely outclassed in the 2nd half last night. They completely ran out of ideas. Coutinho needed to be reefed off the minute Sevilla equalised last night for someone like Allen. Coutinho was too much of a passenger all night, but the minute it goes 2-1, you need to hope he can spark some magic into the game to get you back into it.

I really think Klopp bottled that change and it seemed pretty obvious that it needed to be made.

Yeah I think it was really a no-win situation. Coutinho must have only touched the ball 20 times all night he was brutal. But at the same time he's the player most likely to spark a moment of magic. Gamble leaving him on but I get why he did it. In hindsight the wrong move. At the time I knew Origi was coming on for either Coutinho or Firmino and to be honest it was a toss up which to take off.

I take your point but at 2-1 I don't think Sevilla were going to let it slip no matter what change was made. If he takes off Coutinho we still lose and we talk now about him taking off the only player who could have made something of nothing and how he bottled it by taking him off.

As you say - outclassed. Hoping for a major overhaul of the playing staff.