E3 2016 - June 12th to 14th

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Definitely a generation jump. We are talking 4k on consoles. If thats not next gen I don't know what is.

How do you think PC game development works. Loads of gamers are out there with all kinds of rigs and they make it work. So it should be childs play to make an Xbox Scorpio version and work downward to the Xbox One S and the base model.

I expect sales of the Scorpio to be insane anyway so they'll most likely priotise the Scorpio and work their way down to Xbox One.


Better graphics, frame rate, loading, and resolution. Most graphically intense games on Xbox One are like 900p at 30 fps so the Scorpio will be a giant leap.

The Scorpio is the first real next gen console. The others have been just a stopgap.

How is it a next gen console if it plays games made for the XBox One (the current gen console)?

I'm not denying the graphical capabilities of the Scorpio (though we haven't seen any anyway). But it's a different variation of the same console, not a next gen console. If they're considering it a next gen console, they badly, badly f*cked up the announcement for it.

It's a hardware revision of the current gen console, not a next gen console. Let's treat it as such.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

How is it a next gen console if it plays games made for the XBox One (the current gen console)?

I don't see the logic in how this means the Scorpio is not a next generation console. When the Nintendo Wii was released it could play Gamecube games.

Penn wrote: »

I'm not denying the graphical capabilities of the Scorpio (though we haven't seen any anyway). But it's a different variation of the same console, not a next gen console. If they're considering it a next gen console, they badly, badly f*cked up the announcement for it.

It's a hardware revision of the current gen console, not a next gen console. Let's treat it as such.

Its a next gen console. Simples. Sony are no doubt going to get to work on a plan for some form of competition to stay in the running since the PS4 Neo will be under powered in comparison.

Its a console targeting 4K which has never been done before so of course its next gen. A hardware revision looks more like PS4 Neo, a slight improvement. The Scorpio is a giant leap forward. Its not a slight step up a revision chart.

ItsHoggie

MS f*cked up with the announcement of the One and they've doing the same with the Scorpio, at least Sony are clear with what they're doing with the Neo.

FAILSAFE 00

ItsHoggie wrote: »

MS f*cked up with the announcement of the One and they've doing the same with the Scorpio, at least Sony are clear with what they're doing with the Neo.

Seems incredibly clear and concise to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1dRgWpGePs

Doge

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I don't see the logic in how this means the Scorpio is not a next generation console. When the Nintendo Wii was released it could play Gamecube games.

Because it will not be playing the "next generation" of games, simples.

It will be playing the same generation of games the Xbox One will.
I dont see the Neo as next gen either.

MiskyBoyy

Like previously mentioned. Microsoft is trying to get rid of the whole "generation" thing. If the Scorpio didn't support current games, it would most definitely be next gen but they want to break away from the whole gen thing so won't classify Scorpio as such.

ERG89

Doge wrote: »

Because it will not be playing the "next generation" of games, simples.

It will be playing the same generation of games the Xbox One will.
I dont see the Neo as next gen either.

Gonna be 4th wall breaking shıt when the Scorpio gets Xbox One remakes :pac:

tok9

Venom wrote: »

Out of interest what ever happened to No Man's sky? That game seems to have fallen into a PR black hole

It was supposed to come out on the 21st of this month but has been delayed to August 9th now which is why we didn't see anything regarding it at E3.

FAILSAFE 00

Doge wrote: »

Because it will not be playing the "next generation" of games, simples.

It will be playing the same generation of games the Xbox One will.
I dont see the Neo as next gen either.

From now on all games for both PS4 and XB1 will play on all future generations going forward.

You can't really think that Sony and Microsoft and going to get you to invest in hundreds of digital games and then be like "Sorry lads, here is the next gen console so you can no longer play that library of 300 games you purchased"

Its a 4k gaming console. It does not get much more next generation than that. The technology to create this machine wont even be in production for a good few months and its cutting edge AMD tech.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I don't see the logic in how this means the Scorpio is not a next generation console. When the Nintendo Wii was released it could play Gamecube games.

That's backwards compatibility, not forward compatibility. Try sticking one of your Xbox One disks into a 360 and let us know how you get on.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Its a next gen console. Simples. Sony are no doubt going to get to work on a plan for some form of competition to stay in the running since the PS4 Neo will be under powered in comparison.

Its a console targeting 4K which has never been done before so of course its next gen. A hardware revision looks more like PS4 Neo, a slight improvement. The Scorpio is a giant leap forward. Its not a slight step up a revision chart.

Again, not denying the graphical upgrade. That's not the issue. But better graphics isn't enough to make it a next gen console.

From Phil Spencer himself:

Given the power of the Scorpio, should it be considered a refresh of the Xbox One, or are we looking at, actually, the next-generation of what you are doing in terms of console? Is that actually the fair assessment of it?

Phil Spencer: That fact that when you buy an Xbox One and start creating your game library and when you buy Scorpio those games and accessories and everything are going to run, make it feel like part of the Xbox One family to me. That's why we communicate it that way. That was also part of the design point of the box.

Last year we announced backward compatibility, which at the time I think people looked at as, hey, can you get your Xbox 360 customers to buy an Xbox One? And yes, that's an important part of it. But really from a soul standpoint, we're thinking about when you buy your games from us, we want you to be able to play those games on the hardware we sell to you.

That's why we say beyond generations. The idea, is this part of the previous generation or the next generation gets a little blurry. For you and I, we usually think about generations in terms of what games will it play? This thing will play Ryse: Son of Rome, a launch game for your Xbox One. And we'll have launch Scorpio games as well that are playable on an Xbox One, Xbox One S and Scorpio and look great on all three of them.

So the idea of a generation is a little difficult to stretch on to this. That's why I focus on 4K and say this is really a six teraflop console built to support 4K and the power of high fidelity VR.

Doge

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

From now on all games for both PS4 and XB1 will play on all future generations going forward.

You can't really think that Sony and Microsoft and going to get you to invest in hundreds of digital games and then be like "Sorry lads, here is the next gen console so you can no longer play that library of 300 games you purchased"

I never said anything about the future consoles not being backwards compatible.
I think youre reading my post backwards.

What im saying is the next generation will play games that cannot be played on the current generation i.e the Xbox One.

Wether there will be a point where Microsoft cut games being developed for Xbox One ane continue developing games exclusively for Project Scorpio remains to be seen.

If that happens then only at that point it will be considered next gen imo.


As for 4K gaming, what MS mean by that remains to be seen also.

If that means graphically intensive AAA games running in 4K @ 60fps, its going to cost a bomb as people have already pointed out.

Regardless of this "cutting edge AMD tech" you're getting so hyped about.

We dont even know what it is yet ffs! :pac:

Venom

MiskyBoyy wrote: »

Like previously mentioned. Microsoft is trying to get rid of the whole "generation" thing. If the Scorpio didn't support current games, it would most definitely be next gen but they want to break away from the whole gen thing so won't classify Scorpio as such.

The idea behind the Scorpio is brilliant and has worked perfectly for PC's and Smartphones as you get new faster hardware but you get to still play your old games and apps.

The problem with the Scorpio is MS seem to be doing their best to fcuk it up right from the start with stupid plans like it only making a difference if you have a 4K TV otherwise it will play games exactly the same as an Xbox One. All that has to be done is upcoming games get resolution and graphic setting options so players get the option to pick 1080@60 with graphics set to max or 4K@30 (4K@60 aint happening folks).

Considering how big MS screwed up with the original limits they tried to force on players with the Xbox One like always on internet and no game trading, then having to backtrack due to all the outrage, you would think they would of learned their lession

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

That's backwards compatibility, not forward compatibility. Try sticking one of your Xbox One disks into a 360 and let us know how you get on.



Again, not denying the graphical upgrade. That's not the issue. But better graphics isn't enough to make it a next gen console.

From Phil Spencer himself:

Given the power of the Scorpio, should it be considered a refresh of the Xbox One, or are we looking at, actually, the next-generation of what you are doing in terms of console? Is that actually the fair assessment of it?

Phil Spencer: That fact that when you buy an Xbox One and start creating your game library and when you buy Scorpio those games and accessories and everything are going to run, make it feel like part of the Xbox One family to me. That's why we communicate it that way. That was also part of the design point of the box.

Last year we announced backward compatibility, which at the time I think people looked at as, hey, can you get your Xbox 360 customers to buy an Xbox One? And yes, that's an important part of it. But really from a soul standpoint, we're thinking about when you buy your games from us, we want you to be able to play those games on the hardware we sell to you.

That's why we say beyond generations. The idea, is this part of the previous generation or the next generation gets a little blurry. For you and I, we usually think about generations in terms of what games will it play? This thing will play Ryse: Son of Rome, a launch game for your Xbox One. And we'll have launch Scorpio games as well that are playable on an Xbox One, Xbox One S and Scorpio and look great on all three of them.

So the idea of a generation is a little difficult to stretch on to this. That's why I focus on 4K and say this is really a six teraflop console built to support 4K and the power of high fidelity VR.

Next gen tech makes a next gen console. You have to understand the leap this console is making. Its never been done before. It will use tech/components that hasn't even been released yet.

Microsoft's next gen is that there is no next gen. Thats what Phil is saying.

The Scorpio is a next gen console that will end generations as we see them today.

All games going forward will work on all future consoles. Scorpio and beyond. That makes perfect sense. A great move. It will be much easier to entice people to buy a console up the ladder if you can bring their entire library of games with them going forward.

FAILSAFE 00

Doge wrote: »

What im saying is the next generation will play games that cannot be played on the current generation i.e the Xbox One.

You are talking about next generation games. Not next generation consoles.

Doge wrote: »

Wether there will be a point where Microsoft cut games being developed for Xbox One ane continue developing games exclusively for Project Scorpio remains to be seen.

If that happens then only at that point it will be considered next gen imo.


As for 4K gaming, what MS mean by that remains to be seen also.

If that means graphically intensive AAA games running in 4K @ 60fps, its going to cost a bomb as people have already pointed out.

Regardless of this "cutting edge AMD tech" you're getting so hyped about.

We dont even know what it is yet ffs! :pac:

We know what the console is going to do (4K gaming). We know that AMD technology is making a next gen leap forward in its own industry.

Up until a few weeks ago I would have told you that AMD couldn't release a graphics card to compete with a GTX 980 for under €250 but they are doing it. Less cost more effectiveness.

johnny_ultimate

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Next gen tech makes a next gen console. You have to understand the leap this console is making. Its never been done before. It will use tech/components that hasn't even been released yet.

Microsoft's next gen is that there is no next gen. Thats what Phil is saying.

The Scorpio is a next gen console that will end generations as we see them today.

All games going forward will work on all future consoles. Scorpio and beyond. That makes perfect sense. A great move. It will be much easier to entice people to buy a console up the ladder if you can bring their entire library of games with them going forward.

This post reads like a corporate press release, and not just because of the copious use of 'going forward' :pac:

FAILSAFE 00

Venom wrote: »

The idea behind the Scorpio is brilliant and has worked perfectly for PC's and Smartphones as you get new faster hardware but you get to still play your old games and apps.

The problem with the Scorpio is MS seem to be doing their best to fcuk it up right from the start with stupid plans like it only making a difference if you have a 4K TV otherwise it will play games exactly the same as an Xbox One. All that has to be done is upcoming games get resolution and graphic setting options so players get the option to pick 1080@60 with graphics set to max or 4K@30 (4K@60 aint happening folks).

Considering how big MS screwed up with the original limits they tried to force on players with the Xbox One like always on internet and no game trading, then having to backtrack due to all the outrage, you would think they would of learned their lession

What I took from it was that you wouldn't get the full 4k experience if you are using a 1080p TV which makes sense.

Phil Spencer never mentioned that you could not change the resolution. The Xbox 360 and the Xbox One have settings to adjust resolution and this will be the same with the Scorpio.

Phil was trying to be honest. If he recommended the Scorpio to people with 1080p TVs he would be called out to a firing squad for recommending an overpowered device for consumers with 1080p displays

Doge

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

This post reads like a corporate press release, and not just because of the copious use of 'going forward' :pac:

If they get the price and marketing wrong it could actually set them backward!

Will be interesting to see how it pans out but cutting edge does not mean cheap unless MS and AMD come up with a miracle. :pac:

FAILSAFE 00

Doge wrote: »

If they get the price and marketing wrong it could actually set them backward!

Will be interesting to see how it pans out but cutting edge does not mean cheap unless MS and AMD come up with a miracle. :pac:

I am expecting it to be quite a high premium. Definitely not cheap.

It will be the most powerful console ever so that is going to have a serious dollar value attached

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Next gen tech makes a next gen console. You have to understand the leap this console is making. Its never been done before. It will use tech/components that hasn't even been released yet.

Microsoft's next gen is that there is no next gen. Thats what Phil is saying.

The Scorpio is a next gen console that will end generations as we see them today.

All games going forward will work on all future consoles. Scorpio and beyond. That makes perfect sense. A great move. It will be much easier to entice people to buy a console up the ladder if you can bring their entire library of games with them going forward.

Jesus dude, even MS aren't calling it a next gen console when specifically asked if it's a next gen console. Why are you?

As for bringing their library of games with them going forward, that's backwards compatibility. That's nothing new. The issue is that future games will also have to work on the standard Xbox One. That's limiting the capabilities of the game to the existing gen hardware. He specifically says in the interview I linked to a few pages back that there won't be Scorpio-exclusive games.

That means stuff like enemy Ai, map sizes, npc count etc will all have to be limited to what the XB1 can handle, with the only difference being graphics. If that's what they want to do with getting rid of generations or whatever, they'll be badly left behind because they'll be stuck to what the XB1 can handle.

Hypothetically, if after the Neo, Sony release a PS5 (let's say in 2018 for arguments sake, a year after the Scorpio). The PS5 can match the Scorpio graphics-wise, but can produce more npcs, bigger maps/environments, better AI and has a new controller with new methods of input, and a new UI with new features etc. It has exclusive games not available on the PS4/Neo which take advantage of the new features and hardware capabilities the PS4/Neo doesn't have.

Hypothetically, how could the Scorpio, if it is a next gen console, match that if the same games that are released on the Scorpio must also work on the XB1, which would at that point be a 5 year old console?

Doge

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I am expecting it to be quite a high premium. Definitely not cheap.

It will be the most powerful console ever so that is going to have a serious dollar value attached

If PS Neo came out in the meantime with only a fraction of the spec, it would be "the most powerful console ever". The term is meaningless.

A high premium price is going to have a very niche place in the market.

PC Gaming is already niche, but at least you can upgrade the indivudal components in the future making it far more cost effecitve.

I think you're getting a little carried away with optmism for the product, theres a huge risk this could be a disaster for microsoft.

Reminds me of when the 3DO came out actually. Its all about timing and getting the right price.

Grayditch

The most powerful console ever built!

I've owned every one of those, I think this will be on the "nnaaaaahhhh" list.

Penn

Grayditch wrote: »

The most powerful console ever built!

I've owned every one of those, I think this will be on the "nnaaaaahhhh" list.

Well apparently a 2.5 year old XBox One really will be the most powerful console ever built because it's going to be able to play new games that are released 10 years from now since MS is getting rid of console generations. Might pick one up myself, sounds like a good investment

johnny_ultimate

Have to admit, I saw a pretty, pretty, pretty good pixel earlier today. Scorpio has a lot to live up to.

Grayditch

Penn wrote: »

Well apparently a 2.5 year old XBox One really will be the most powerful console ever built because it's going to be able to play new games that are released 10 years from now

Nice!

I find it quite fascinating that I still don't have an Xbox One. I own 2 juicers, like... it doesn't take much me to make me impulse buy. That Pirate game from Rare STILL isn't out. I'm probably never actually going to have one.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

Jesus dude, even MS aren't calling it a next gen console when specifically asked if it's a next gen console. Why are you?

Because it uses next generation tech

Even Microsoft know its a next gen console but they are moving to this no more generations marketing message so they cannot say it is a next gen console.

Phil Spencer wrote:

That's why we say beyond generations. The idea, is this part of the previous generation or the next generation gets a little blurry

Penn wrote: »

As for bringing their library of games with them going forward, that's backwards compatibility. That's nothing new. The issue is that future games will also have to work on the standard Xbox One. That's limiting the capabilities of the game to the existing gen hardware. He specifically says in the interview I linked to a few pages back that there won't be Scorpio-exclusive games.

And there wont be. They'll simply release a more powerful entry level Xbox. Meaning the Xbox One can drop off eventually and games will still not be exclusive to the Scorpio.

Penn wrote: »

That means stuff like enemy Ai, map sizes, npc count etc will all have to be limited to what the XB1 can handle, with the only difference being graphics. If that's what they want to do with getting rid of generations or whatever, they'll be badly left behind because they'll be stuck to what the XB1 can handle.

Not so, forget about the Xbox One for the moment and lets call this the entry model for Xbox. So the entry model will play games that the Scorpio can play without effecting the gameplay experience. I am not expecting that for a very long time.

Right now what is the difference between Battlefield 4 running 4K on my PC and my Xbox One. Nothing different in terms of gameplay and mechanics. Just better quality graphics, textures and higher resolution.

Penn wrote: »

Hypothetically, if after the Neo, Sony release a PS5 (let's say in 2018 for arguments sake, a year after the Scorpio). The PS5 can match the Scorpio graphics-wise, but can produce more npcs, bigger maps/environments, better AI and has a new controller with new methods of input, and a new UI with new features etc. It has exclusive games not available on the PS4/Neo which take advantage of the new features the PS4/Neo doesn't have.

Well thats the Sony camp and we'll leave them to it and see what they come up with. We can say what is coming from Xbox but we can't say whats coming after PS4 Neo.

Penn wrote: »

Hypothetically, how could the Scorpio, if it is a next gen console, match that if the same games that are released on the Scorpio must also work on the XB1, which would at that point be a 5 year old console?

That is 2 gens ahead and whats to say that Sony doesn't want its future console releases to follow in Microsoft's no generation philosophy and allow gamers on PS4 Neo to experience games that are on the PS4 NeoMorpheus console

It will lead to better console sales and I'd say thats what might happen.

FAILSAFE 00

Doge wrote: »

If PS Neo came out in the meantime with only a fraction of the spec, it would be "the most powerful console ever". The term is meaningless.

A high premium price is going to have a very niche place in the market.

PC Gaming is already niche, but at least you can upgrade the indivudal components in the future making it far more cost effecitve.

I think you're getting a little carried away with optmism for the product, theres a huge risk this could be a disaster for microsoft.

Reminds me of when the 3DO came out actually. Its all about timing and getting the right price.

Just to point out I am not purchasing a Scorpio myself since I have a GTX 1080 arriving shortly for my rig and a 4k monitor so I am 4K sorted but I think its just great for console gamers to be able to experience such a powerful console. It will no doubt spur on Sony to come out with a more competitive console to attempt a catch up to where the Scorpio is at. So its really great for all camps. Except Nintendo

Penn

You are completely going against everything Phil Spencer is saying. Here's the link to that interview with him again:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-15-xbox-boss-phil-spencer-the-big-interview

"For you and I, we usually think about generations in terms of what games will it play?" Spencer told Eurogamer. "This thing will play Ryse: Son of Rome, a launch game for your Xbox One. And we'll have launch Scorpio games as well that are playable on an Xbox One, Xbox One S and Scorpio and look great on all three of them," he concluded, adding very definitively and explicitly that the Xbox One Scorpio will not have any exclusives whatsoever. "There won't be Scorpio exclusive console games. Absolutely not.

"When you're buying a console game from us, you know that console game will run on your original Xbox. No-one gets left behind. We said that on stage. Your Xbox One S and Scorpio. That's an important design point for us. They're all part of the same family. And we want to make sure just like when you're buying your music today, you don't worry about upgrading to a new phone that somehow won't play your old songs or your new songs. We think about your Xbox One collection of games that will move with you between those different consoles," Spencer explained

Creating new "entry level" versions of the XB1 completely goes against the ethos Spencer is putting forward that the games will still be playable on your existing XB1.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

You are completely going against everything Phil Spencer is saying. Here's the link to that interview with him again:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-15-xbox-boss-phil-spencer-the-big-interview

"For you and I, we usually think about generations in terms of what games will it play?" Spencer told Eurogamer. "This thing will play Ryse: Son of Rome, a launch game for your Xbox One. And we'll have launch Scorpio games as well that are playable on an Xbox One, Xbox One S and Scorpio and look great on all three of them," he concluded, adding very definitively and explicitly that the Xbox One Scorpio will not have any exclusives whatsoever. "There won't be Scorpio exclusive console games. Absolutely not.

"When you're buying a console game from us, you know that console game will run on your original Xbox. No-one gets left behind. We said that on stage. Your Xbox One S and Scorpio. That's an important design point for us. They're all part of the same family. And we want to make sure just like when you're buying your music today, you don't worry about upgrading to a new phone that somehow won't play your old songs or your new songs. We think about your Xbox One collection of games that will move with you between those different consoles," Spencer explained

Creating new "entry level" versions of the XB1 completely goes against the ethos Spencer is putting forward that the games will still be playable on your existing XB1.

Thats okay. Its perfectly alright to have a different opinion about something even if its from Phil Spencer :P

Phil Spencer wrote:

They're all part of the same family...

Think about it. A family frequently have new additions and very unfortunately departures. There will be replacement models for all the current line up eventually.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Think about it. A family frequently have new additions and very unfortunately departures. There will be replacement models for all the current line up eventually.

Yeah. It's known as "the next generation" :P

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

Yeah. It's known as "the next generation" :P

Tell that to Phil :P

They want to keep people on the console upgrade ladder without the pitfalls of previous gens (i.e) Segmenting their audience, backward compatibility, etc, etc.

dunworth1

Penn wrote:

Yeah. It's known as "the next generation"

Do we get next gen pcs? No we upgrade them

Microsoft is switching to the pc upgrade model

All future xboxs for the foreseeable will have windows 10. The consoles are now on the x86 architecture (same as pcs) this will now mean that all games released on the xbox one and future xboxs will all work. Same as games do on pcs.
Obviously there will become a point where the older consoles won't be able to to play the newest games.

Imagine trying to play Cod Aw on a Windows 98 based pc that's just not going to happen.

Why is it so hard for people to understand what Microsoft are doing with their ecosystem.
People forget that while Phil is the best thing to happen to the xbox pr machine
He is still a salesmans. And what will sales people say to get you to buy the product?? Well pretty much anything.

That doesn't change the fact that scoripo will be a much more powerful machine than the xbox or ps4

It's amazing how some people love to go and pick holes in everything from a quick interview or trailer.

I've got all three a gaming pc, xbox and ps4

And i could very well see myself getting scorpio when it releases I like to have nice things.

And i do like Microsoft more than Sony I'll admit that no problem.

lawlolawl

Grayditch wrote: »

Nice!

I find it quite fascinating that I still don't have an Xbox One. I own 2 juicers, like... it doesn't take much me to make me impulse buy. That Pirate game from Rare STILL isn't out. I'm probably never actually going to have one.

I wouldn't have one if my stupid IRL friends hadn't bought them as their next gen console because "they had a 360 and wanted to keep their gamerscore".

I own two games for the One, Destiny and Overwatch. No one on my friends list plays anything but those two games and whatever free stuff they get from Games With Gold. There is nothing else on the console that even slightly interests me. I have 7 games for my Wii U and about another 7 I want to pick up eventually and that console failed miserably.

That's the reason you don't have a One and probably won't get one. It has nothing worth getting it for unless your friends buy one for some reason.

CiDeRmAn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Just to point out I am not purchasing a Scorpio myself since I have a GTX 1080 arriving shortly for my rig and a 4k monitor so I am 4K sorted but I think its just great for console gamers to be able to experience such a powerful console. It will no doubt spur on Sony to come out with a more competitive console to attempt a catch up to where the Scorpio is at. So its really great for all camps. Except Nintendo

What now?

Yeah, after dwelling in the sump of "believing every yarn MS' press releases say" it's then perfectly acceptable to have a crack at the only company that seems to remember that games consoles are supposed to be about the games, not some stat throwing rivalry.

And, Microsoft have a long way to go to repair the damage done, worldwide, by the XboxOne, not specifically because it's performance failed to impress but because it just doesn't have the exclusive content that the PS4 has.

Scorpio is sounding more and more like this generations equivalent of the release of the HDMI equipped 360, just that the machine will need more horsepower to generate the visuals. Yes the games will look better, but they'll be the same games, no other innovations.
And as the XboxOne is going to play the same games then they are limiting the eventual promise of the Scorpio, it'll be hamstrung by it's ties to the earlier machine, awaiting yet another generation shift before it can leave the XboxOne behind.

heebusjeebus

Good article on Eurogamer about the mixed messages from Microsoft.
All down to the wider plan of getting Win 10 out there:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-16-microsofts-mixed-messages-at-e3-arent-pretty-for-xbox-one-owners

Simply on this alone, you could say the real message of the Xbox E3 conference was "buy a PC."

But the 'abandon ship' call has come two-and-a-half years after Xbox One's launch, and we're also told that Scorpio is definitely not actually the next console, promise - because no-one is left behind. Confused? Me too.

Penn

dunworth1 wrote: »

Do we get next gen pcs? No we upgrade them

Microsoft is switching to the pc upgrade model

All future xboxs for the foreseeable will have windows 10. The consoles are now on the x86 architecture (same as pcs) this will now mean that all games released on the xbox one and future xboxs will all work. Same as games do on pcs.
Obviously there will become a point where the older consoles won't be able to to play the newest games.

Imagine trying to play Cod Aw on a Windows 98 based pc that's just not going to happen.

Exactly my point. This new console is an upgraded version of the XBox One but it is still an XBox One. Phil Spencer is saying that all games released for the XBox One will work on Scorpio, S and the existing XB1, that's the whole philosophy behind it. That's why the Scorpio is part of this generation though, it's an upgraded XB1.

When the older versions of XBox One can no longer play newer games, that's when either the whole philosophy behind it falls apart, or they move on to the proper next generation of consoles (as you can upgrade your PC to run those games, but you can't upgrade the console, you just buy a new one).

dunworth1 wrote: »

Why is it so hard for people to understand what Microsoft are doing with their ecosystem.
People forget that while Phil is the best thing to happen to the xbox pr machine
He is still a salesmans. And what will sales people say to get you to buy the product?? Well pretty much anything.

That doesn't change the fact that scoripo will be a much more powerful machine than the xbox or ps4

It's amazing how some people love to go and pick holes in everything from a quick interview or trailer.

I seem to be the only one who is actually going by what PS has said in interviews and during the conference. I'm not picking holes in what he's been saying, I've been quoting what he has actually said. Failsafe said a few posts up that he disagrees with PS, however it's not something that's a difference of opinion and agree to disagree. He's the head of the XBox division. If he says they're doing something, it has to be taken as fact unless proven otherwise. He has specifically said a) no Scorpio-exclusive games, b) all XB1 games going forward will work on Scorpio, S and One, c) only difference with Scorpio is graphical upgrades.

dunworth1 wrote: »

I've got all three a gaming pc, xbox and ps4

And i could very well see myself getting scorpio when it releases I like to have nice things.

And i do like Microsoft more than Sony I'll admit that no problem.

I have no objection to the Scorpio. Hell I do have a 4K tv and if the games really do end up looking fantastic and Sony doesn't have a competitor out, I can see myself getting one too (depending on price) as there'll obviously be a big enough back-catalogue of XB1 games by that point too. But I don't see what the objection is to actually take Phil Spencer at his word by what he says about the Scorpio. That it's an upgraded XB1.

Benzino

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Its a next gen console. Simples. Sony are no doubt going to get to work on a plan for some form of competition to stay in the running since the PS4 Neo will be under powered in comparison.

Or not, maybe this is perfect for Sony? History has shown recently that the cheaper console tends to outsell the premium console. Just look at PS3 vs 360, One vs PS4. Even less incentive if you can play the same games on a cheaper console.

Benzino

E3 Recap is a good site for E3 videos

FAILSAFE 00

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

What now?

Yeah, after dwelling in the sump of "believing every yarn MS' press releases say" it's then perfectly acceptable to have a crack at the only company that seems to remember that games consoles are supposed to be about the games, not some stat throwing rivalry.

And, Microsoft have a long way to go to repair the damage done, worldwide, by the XboxOne, not specifically because it's performance failed to impress but because it just doesn't have the exclusive content that the PS4 has.

Scorpio is sounding more and more like this generations equivalent of the release of the HDMI equipped 360, just that the machine will need more horsepower to generate the visuals. Yes the games will look better, but they'll be the same games, no other innovations.
And as the XboxOne is going to play the same games then they are limiting the eventual promise of the Scorpio, it'll be hamstrung by it's ties to the earlier machine, awaiting yet another generation shift before it can leave the XboxOne behind.

Its a 4K gaming console thats made with game devs in mind.

The promo video for it is all about giving games developers what they want and need for making incredible games. Sounds great to me and others here.

The PS4 has become the main third party console so your exclusives argument does not hold up. Also remember that we should always focus on game quality. Some of the PS4 exclusives were real stinkers like The Order. I am sure many Sony games here can agree. Many are very good though.

This years Sony E3 didn't give any time for indie devs unlike Microsoft who actually gave them a segment of their show to highlight Indie titles coming to Xbox. Indie are a huge part of any gaming platform. Especially these days. There is some terrific indie titles out there.

The damage as you put it has been long repaired. Just look at last November to December on Xbox One. Packed full of great exclusives and over on PS4 no AAA titles came until March 2016 with Sony not even showing up at Gamescom.

FAILSAFE 00

Benzino wrote: »

Or not, maybe this is perfect for Sony? History has shown recently that the cheaper console tends to outsell the premium console. Just look at PS3 vs 360, One vs PS4. Even less incentive if you can play the same games on a cheaper console.

Thats the thing. Micosoft have 2 cheap consoles in the form of the Xbox One and Xbox One S.

What we learnt from the PS4 is that more power with an easier method to utilise it is the way forward.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

Exactly my point. This new console is an upgraded version of the XBox One but it is still an XBox One. Phil Spencer is saying that all games released for the XBox One will work on Scorpio, S and the existing XB1, that's the whole philosophy behind it. That's why the Scorpio is part of this generation though, it's an upgraded XB1.

When the older versions of XBox One can no longer play newer games, that's when either the whole philosophy behind it falls apart, or they move on to the proper next generation of consoles (as you can upgrade your PC to run those games, but you can't upgrade the console, you just buy a new one).



I seem to be the only one who is actually going by what PS has said in interviews and during the conference. I'm not picking holes in what he's been saying, I've been quoting what he has actually said. Failsafe said a few posts up that he disagrees with PS, however it's not something that's a difference of opinion and agree to disagree. He's the head of the XBox division. If he says they're doing something, it has to be taken as fact unless proven otherwise. He has specifically said a) no Scorpio-exclusive games, b) all XB1 games going forward will work on Scorpio, S and One, c) only difference with Scorpio is graphical upgrades.



I have no objection to the Scorpio. Hell I do have a 4K tv and if the games really do end up looking fantastic and Sony doesn't have a competitor out, I can see myself getting one too (depending on price) as there'll obviously be a big enough back-catalogue of XB1 games by that point too. But I don't see what the objection is to actually take Phil Spencer at his word by what he says about the Scorpio. That it's an upgraded XB1.

Where your argument falls flat is here.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote:

Think about it. A family frequently have new additions and very unfortunately departures. There will be replacement models for all the current line up eventually.

Penn wrote: »

Yeah. It's known as "the next generation" :P

And what is the Scorpio..... its a new member of the Xbox family AKA - Next gen by your own words.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Where your argument falls flat is here.



And what is the Scorpio..... its a new member of the Xbox family AKA - Next gen by your own words.

I was making a joke with that comment, not an argument.

Either way, I stand by my assertion that since Phil Spencer purposefully didn't call it next-gen when specifically asked, and considering it won't have exclusive games or features outside better graphics (and games released will still be playable on launch XB1s), it's not next-gen.

I also find it bizarre that your arguing that this is a next-gen console while also arguing that MS are going away with generations for their consoles. That's a self-defeating argument. How can it be next-gen if there is no next-gen?

Kirby

Penn wrote: »

I was making a joke with that comment, not an argument.

Either way, I stand by my assertion that since Phil Spencer purposefully didn't call it next-gen when specifically asked, and considering it won't have exclusive games or features outside better graphics (and games released will still be playable on launch XB1s), it's not next-gen.

I also find it bizarre that your arguing that this is a next-gen console while also arguing that MS are going away with generations for their consoles. That's a self-defeating argument. How can it be next-gen if there is no next-gen?

He did that so people would buy the now pointless Xbox slim version. If you proclaim loudly to the world "This is our new next gen console!" then your old stuff stops selling. It's PR speak.

If you come out with a console that is 4 times more powerful than the previous one......how can it not be "next-gen"? He's just trying to be clever.

Digital Solitude

Kirby wrote: »

He did that so people would buy the now pointless Xbox slim version. If you proclaim loudly to the world "This is our new next gen console!" then your old stuff stops selling. It's PR speak.

If you come out with a console that is 4 times more powerful than the previous one......how can it not be "next-gen"? He's just trying to be clever.

Because it's still playing games along with the 8th generation of consoles. It's not a successor to the Xbox One, it's an alternative. I don't know how accurate the PC GPU argument actually is but it's like if Nvidia announced the 1050 ( a weak card for budgets) and the 1080Ti (a powerhouse of a card) at the same time, sure the 1080Ti is much more powerful but it's still the same generation, they're not competing hardware, they hit different markets, same as Scorpio and XB1

Penn

Kirby wrote: »

He did that so people would buy the now pointless Xbox slim version. If you proclaim loudly to the world "This is our new next gen console!" then your old stuff stops selling. It's PR speak.

If you come out with a console that is 4 times more powerful than the previous one......how can it not be "next-gen"? He's just trying to be clever.

But then there was no reason to announce it at all. They didn't have anything to show for it. Plus again, if the same XB1 games will run on 2.5 year old launch Xbox Ones which he repeatedly said, then the upgrade is nothing more than graphics only. And if that's supposed to be their next-gen console, it sounds awful.

Seriously, I'm really struggling to understand what the issue is with calling the Scorpio what it is. If it can hit 4k @ 60fps, that's f*cking amazing and I can't wait to see what that looks and plays like. But it's an Xbox One with better graphics. That's it. Still an Xbox One. Plays Xbox One games at better resolutions and frame rates.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

I was making a joke with that comment, not an argument.

Either way, I stand by my assertion that since Phil Spencer purposefully didn't call it next-gen when specifically asked, and considering it won't have exclusive games or features outside better graphics (and games released will still be playable on launch XB1s), it's not next-gen.

I also find it bizarre that your arguing that this is a next-gen console while also arguing that MS are going away with generations for their consoles. That's a self-defeating argument. How can it be next-gen if there is no next-gen?

Microsoft are not arguing that its not next gen. In the questions and answers with Phil Spencer that you posted Phil answered a question about if the Scorpio was a next gen console.

Phil Spencer wrote:

...That's why we say beyond generations. The idea, is this part of the previous generation or the next generation gets a little blurry.

He is using PR speak to keep the Xbox One and Xbox One S selling. That is the new Microsoft strategy. Of course its a next gen console.

Simply mentioning that Xbox Scorpio games need to run on Xbox One is not an argument for saying that it is not next gen. Take any PC game at 4k you can get it to run on Xbox One easily be reducing the resolution to 900p and giving it a few tweaks which will not hinder the gameplay experience.

Grayditch

This is the messiest thing ever. Pc, PS4 and 3Ds it is for me, so.

johnny_ultimate

The developers of Hawken have actually just spoken about how complex the console porting process can be: http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/06/15/porting-a-pc-game-to-console-is-not-always-as-easy-as-it-sounds

It is far, far from a case of just down rendering to 900p/1080p and hit the release button. Some games simply cannot be ported, due to the complexity of the controls, UI or other features.

It's not much of a stretch to suggest consoles are holding PC games back, either - and I say that as somebody who believes a healthy console scene is really important. If a game has to work on base PS4 or Xbox One - and it has to, because that's where the big money and biggest audience is - there's little doubt its computing and graphical potential will be neutered. The PC version (or upgraded console versions) may get bells and whistles, but if they're beholden to the core tech then that'll have consequences for areas beyond visuals. Shadow of Mordor last gen is a perfect example of a game that had to be heavily compromised to fit onto a previous gen to the point of, well, pointlessness. But that was an afterthought port, not designed for the baseline tech in the first place.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Microsoft are not arguing that its not next gen. In the questions and answers with Phil Spencer that you posted Phil answered a question about if the Scorpio was a next gen console.



He is using PR speak to keep the Xbox One and Xbox One S selling. That is the new Microsoft strategy. Of course its a next gen console.

Simply mentioning that Xbox Scorpio games need to run on Xbox One is not an argument for saying that it is not next gen. Take any PC game at 4k you can get it to run on Xbox One easily be reducing the resolution to 900p and giving it a few tweaks which will not hinder the gameplay experience.

Okay, just answer me this, and after that, I'm simply not going to discuss it any more:

- Can you play an Xbox One game on your 360 with the same disk? (eg. not a game like Fifa or Destiny released on both versions, but the same XB1 disk)

That's what the difference is between a console generation. Where the game is that much more advanced that the previous console isn't powerful enough to run it.

FAILSAFE 00

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The developers of Hawken have actually just spoken about how complex the console porting process can be: http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/06/15/porting-a-pc-game-to-console-is-not-always-as-easy-as-it-sounds

It is far, far from a case of just down rendering to 900p/1080p and hit the release button. Some games simply cannot be ported, due to the complexity of the controls, UI or other features.

It's not much of a stretch to suggest consoles are holding PC games back, either - and I say that as somebody who believes a healthy console scene is really important. If a game has to work on base PS4 or Xbox One - and it has to, because that's where the big money and biggest audience is - there's little doubt its computing and graphical potential will be neutered. The PC version (or upgraded console versions) may get bells and whistles, but if they're beholden to the core tech then that'll have consequences for areas beyond visuals. Shadow of Mordor last gen is a perfect example of a game that had to be heavily compromised to fit onto a previous gen to the point of, well, pointlessness. But that was an afterthought port, not designed for the baseline tech in the first place.

Watch Dogs was another one. The PC title was clearly gimped to make sure it looked closer to the PS4 version.

Then some nice PC folk found the settings inside the game code that activated way better visuals that had been turned off on the PC version.

Venom

Grayditch wrote: »

This is the messiest thing ever. Pc, PS4 and 3Ds it is for me, so.

Yeah PS4 is the only console I'd consider at this point in time as its has far more interesting exclusives and all the Xbox ones are now coming to PC. Best of both worlds