E3 2016 - June 12th to 14th

Penn

lawlolawl wrote: »

A lot of expert type people are saying it is pretty much an impossibility that the Scorpio will be capable of 4k/60 at anything approaching a sane price for a console.

Also, MS basically shrugged their shoulders when asked if their will be any Scorpio exclusive games.

I reckon both the announcement video and the specs/concept were knocked together in a couple of days last week. It's all so vague that it seems like they panicked and don't have a clue what they are doing.

I don't think there'll Scorpio-exclusive games as they want all games playable on all versions of the XBox1, just a different qualities etc.

As for not being able to be capable of 4K/60fps at a sane price for a console, I'd hazard a bet they'll be selling at a loss for the first 2-3 years. They fell so far behind the PS4 at the start that even though they've made a lot of improvements and righted most of the wrongs since then, they need something to really close the gap.

Retr0gamer

The problem in that logic is that these days consoles are made from or based on off the shelf components and based on existing and at the time dated tech. At the moment there's no available GPU that can handle 4K/60fps (or even 30 fps) comfortably.

Venom

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

yes being built from the ground up for native 4k gaming, 8 core cpu in it as well. i can see it costing like 800 quid and then xbox one being the cheaper model (think phone model), its probably part of the whole combined windows 10+xbox so microsoft can try (again) to get a hold of the pc gaming (scorpio) market.

From what ive took they are abandoning the traditional 5-6 year console cycle in order to bring out new devices more often that will all run the same software at different levels

That's all nice and well except for the fact MS got destroyed this generation for the Xbox One being $100 more than the PS4 so being twice as expensive due to having top tier CPU and GPU is just not going to work out well for them. Hell, a GTX 1080 is going to cost the best part of $700 alone.

My take on the generation comment MS made is that the Scorpio is in fact the Xbox Two but the OS will now stay the same to ensure backward compatibility with games just like the way PC's and Smart phones work.

chrislad

I'm going to pick up a PS4 or Xbox One in a month or so. Based on this E3, I'm still leaning towards the PS4. Nothing there from MS that jumps out at me, and their implementation of GoW via the Window Store wasn't great from what I heard too.

heebusjeebus

Will Sony now rush to market a PS5 based on this move by MS?
Surely they'd be expecting greater profits from the PS4 based on cheaper components. That would be lost by putting out a PS5 so soon after the PS4.

It's a bit vague from MS so far though. That video could have been thrown together in an afternoon. It will also further hamper sales of the XBone and XBoneS.

lawlolawl

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Will Sony now rush to market a PS5 based on this move by MS?

No reason to really. 40+ million sold so far and it's the fastest selling console of all time.

MS are the one in panic mode, trying to throw enough mud to stick somewhere.

lawlolawl

lawlolawl wrote: »

No reason to really. 40+ million sold so far and it's the fastest selling console of all time.

MS are the one in panic mode, trying to throw enough mud to stick somewhere.

Yea, at this point Sony have won this generation's console war.

jcd5971

I'm sorry to be super negative but anyone falling for this xbox 4k lark, is just ignorant of facts, to deliver 4k gaming properly and to look good it has to be at 60fps otherwise why bother

The point is the best graphics cards on the market right now struggle to hit above 30fps consistently.

Most super high spec 4k ready machines are running dual cards.

It's going to be ridiculously expensive to deliver this to consoles.

A bit of realism is needed here

CiDeRmAn

Deleted User wrote: »

Yea, at this point Sony have won this generation's console war.

And yet, more of the games that really impressed me at least, were on the WiiU...

gizmo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The problem in that logic is that these days consoles are made from or based on off the shelf components and based on existing and at the time dated tech. At the moment there's no available GPU that can handle 4K/60fps (or even 30 fps) comfortably.

Ultimately all the console has to do in order to fulfil what they've claimed is be capable of handling native 4K output, whether or not many games are released which utilise it is irrelevant. Putting it another way, the following statement is probably the most important one made in the video:

"I can't wait to see what developers actually do with all that horsepower in the box"

Mainly because very few developers are likely to use the extra horsepower provided to attempt to deliver a game running at 4K natively. I'd highly wager the target will be 1080p@60 or some similar setup which will ensure ease of development and testing across both the Scorpio and XBox One platforms.

FAILSAFE 00

Falthyron wrote: »

Not sure if anybody has mentioned this yet, but the PS4.5 and Hank Scorpio will cause a number of problems for the future. First of all, everybody has become accustomed to seeing through the UbiSoft veneer and know to not take their E3 demos as a depiction of how the final game will look. This will now apply to all future PS and Xbox games. Obviously, MS and Sony will want to show the best version of their games and they will be shown on the more powerful models, thus leaving those on Xbox One and PS4 feeling deflated when they see how the game will look on those consoles. Just look at the backlash against the downgrade on WatchDogs as an example, except it won't be one game, it will be all games on these respective consoles. Unless, of course, this is MS and Sony's plan to roll out more frequent machine upgrades, thereby making consoles PC-lite.

This already exists today at every E3. We see the PC version of many games before we see the console version. Take Battlefield 1 for example.

The downgrade of Watchdogs isn't the right comparison. That was downgraded across every platform including PC.
We didn't see back lash when Battlefield 4 was shown off on PC with glorious graphics and then played at lower resolutions on PS4 & Xbox One. It's expected.

Falthyron wrote: »

The gulf in quality and performance will have to be noticeable to justify what I suspect will be a high price-point for these upgrades. If gamers cannot tell the difference in quality, why would they spend $500 on an upgrade? Because they are sheeple? Perhaps, but most will question the purpose of an expensive upgrade. This, in turn, may force developers to spend more time on the 'better' versions, and leave the 'older' version feeling unloved. The belief would be that both MS and Sony don't choose a preferable platform, but the whole idea of these new consoles is to outperform their rival with fidelity so with that in mind, how can they not push the 'better' version?

The leap will be massive from Xbox One to Scorpio.

Digital foundry and other media outlets will of course show comparisons to indicate the differences between games running on both systems.

Falthyron wrote: »

Finally, both upgraded consoles won't be out until late next year, possibly 2018 if there are delays. This technology will be outdated by then. Sure, you will get 4K, but probably at 30fps, so be prepared to be sold the 'truly cinematic' lark. Unless, of course, they really turn consoles into PCs by adding scaleable options. Perhaps you can sacrifice 4K, down to 1440p and get 60fps instead? If this is the route they go then it means the new consoles can last longer because most gamers prefer 60fps to outright stellar visuals. However, if this doesn't happen, then we can expect more regular iterations of consoles. Every 3 years a new console with better features come out and the PC upgrade cycle transfers onto the console market.

The tech will not be outdated by that time. It's a completely new line of CPU and GPU from AMD. They haven't even launched this new tech yet on PC.

For Microsoft to get up on stage confidently and reveal its plans for Scorpio gamers are in for a real treat.

Doge

Lets not forget that the Xbox One can barely even run games in 1080p, a lot of games that came out on ps4 and xbox one fall short of 1080p on the xbox platform as its harder to get the performance out of it compared to the PS4.
Even codemasters said it in their blog when developing Dirt Rally for consoles.

If Project Scorpio is using a similar architecture then the developers will have an up hill battle to get the most from it.

ERG89

jcd5971 wrote: »

I'm sorry to be super negative

Lol I don't see much positivity on here.
Totally not sold on VR either fwiw, I thought Sony or another publisher would have something better since the industry is constantly reminded me oh that's the future etc.


Just show Zelda Nintendo, I want to see a good game that isn't sports or violence for a change.

Retr0gamer

I can see Playstation VR being a bit of a 3D tv type fad. Ms probably are taking the right approach supporting existing VR hardware. The platform just seems more suited to the open PC platform.

A few PS3 games supported 3D but it wasn't worth it and the compromises to graphical fidelity meant it got neglected after 2 years.

Kiith

Disappointed they didn't announce the Master Chief collection on the PC. That's about the only thing i wanted, but it's good (and surprising) to see the other XBox exclusives also appearing on the PC. Not a fan of the Windows Store, but there's a few games there i'd be tempted by.

Other than that, there's not a huge amount really interested me this year.

FAILSAFE 00

Doge wrote: »

Lets not forget that the Xbox One can barely even run games in 1080p, a lot of games that came out on ps4 and xbox one fall short of 1080p on the xbox platform as its harder to get the performance out of it compared to the PS4.
Even codemasters said it in their blog when developing Dirt Rally for consoles.

If Project Scorpio is using a similar architecture then the developers will have an up hill battle to get the most from it.

It's not, so no worries there.

It's the most powerful console there is so loads of head room to make great games.

heebusjeebus

I think gizmo is right, MS & Sony should be hoping that a stable 1080/60 is the norm for the next generation.
These new consoles will still need to come in around the €400/€500 mark.
Native 4k is wishful thinking so don't drink that cool aid.

K.O.Kiki

jcd5971 wrote: »

I'm sorry to be super negative but anyone falling for this xbox 4k lark, is just ignorant of facts, to deliver 4k gaming properly and to look good it has to be at 60fps otherwise why bother

The point is the best graphics cards on the market right now struggle to hit above 30fps consistently.

Most super high spec 4k ready machines are running dual cards.

It's going to be ridiculously expensive to deliver this to consoles.

A bit of realism is needed here

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-review


The GTX 1080 doesn't struggle to hit 4k30, it can do that quite competently.

It struggles with 4k60.

johnny_ultimate

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

It's the most powerful console there is so loads of head room to make great games.

EVERY new piece of console gaming hardware from either Microsoft or Sony has a good 50% chance at making that silly claim (Nintendo do their own thing and don't get involved in a terraflops pissing contest). I'd damn well hope the latest piece of hardware is more powerful than what's on the market already :pac:

tok9

The thing that I find so weird is they just announced an Xbox Slim and then in the same conference announce a more powerful xbox coming out in 15-18 months time..

Who in their right mind will want to buy a slim if that's coming a year later?

Generic Dreadhead

Good thing there's a thread for the Games themselves (The trailers thread), this whole Next (1.5x?) Gen and VR sthick is tiresome.

The level of investment required is going to be the same as the move to home Blu-Ray 3D/ Sky Tv 3D, in that it's going to at least 18 months before the general Joe Soap will even give it a 2nd look.

And given that these developments are 18 months away, that means no one but the "enthusiast" will be adopting before 2019/2020..... by that time I will have played like 40 games on a TV screen and had a blast

Retr0gamer

If they are aiming the Scorpio at people that can afford 4K TVs then the price might be a smidgen bit higher than the quite reasonably priced S.

K.O.Kiki

Cormac... wrote: »

Good thing there's a thread for the Games themselves (The trailers thread), this whole Next (1.5x?) Gen and VR sthick is tiresome.

The level of investment required is going to be the same as the move to home Blu-Ray 3D/ Sky Tv 3D, in that it's going to at least 18 months before the general Joe Soap will even give it a 2nd look.

And given that these developments are 18 months away, that means no one but the "enthusiast" will be adopting before 2019/2020..... by that time I will have played like 40 games on a TV screen and had a blast

The "enthusiast" will have built a PC by then

Doge

I'm glad that both platforms had a strong showing of content this year, unlike Microsoft absolutely getting destroyed last year at e3.

With all the Xbox exclusives coming out on PC owning a Gaming Rig and a PS4 is a happy place to be right now, you will be getting the best of both of worlds.

kunst nugget

Cormac... wrote: »

Good thing there's a thread for the Games themselves (The trailers thread), this whole Next (1.5x?) Gen and VR sthick is tiresome.

The level of investment required is going to be the same as the move to home Blu-Ray 3D/ Sky Tv 3D, in that it's going to at least 18 months before the general Joe Soap will even give it a 2nd look.

And given that these developments are 18 months away, that means no one but the "enthusiast" will be adopting before 2019/2020..... by that time I will have played like 40 games on a TV screen and had a blast

3D TV seems pretty dead in the water as well with LG and Samsung not bother to use it on their televisions anymore and I'd imagine the uptake for 4k is going to slow enough considering the price of the TVs at the moment.

FAILSAFE 00

Xbox's Phil Spencer has been very humble these past few years. When rumors circulated that DX12 would give XB1 a boost he straight away said that's not happening.

For him to get up there and announce Scorpio you know this is going to be a huge jump for the console gaming industry.

A lot of people saying it can't do this and that. They seem very confident to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1dRgWpGePs

Shiminay

Once again, I found myself thinking "Frak me, I might get a PlayStation" after Sony's conference. They seem to have decided that they're going to own E3 from now on

Bitterly disappointed that some of the VR stuff only appears to be add-ons for existing things, I cannot convey how I gasped and then groaned at that Star Wars Battlefront VR X-Wing mission.

FAILSAFE 00

Doge wrote: »

I'm glad that both platforms had a strong showing of content this year, unlike Microsoft absolutely getting destroyed last year at e3.

I think you watched the wrong show.

Last year Sony had very little content for late 2015 and they didn't even show up at Gamescom 2015. They even came out and admitted they hadn't anything until 2016.

This year was great for Sony at E3 but last year was desperate.

Generic Dreadhead

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

The "enthusiast" will have built a PC by then

Hence my use of the Inverted Commas. The internet will be awash with "Can you Build a PC that can play VR 4k for less than $300.... what happens next will shock you?"

kunst nugget wrote: »

3D TV seems pretty dead in the water as well with LG and Samsung not bother to use it on their televisions anymore and I'd imagine the uptake for 4k is going to slow enough considering the price of the TVs at the moment.

Precisely. Cool concept but didn't adopt quickly enough by creating large price barriers hence support dropped off. Kind of like that Neo Geo console thing back in the day.
3D is not massively appealing cause of the glasses in the least, but gimme a whole thing I can strap around my head and over my eyes.... i kid :P

I've found numbing myself to the carry on that is "Native 4K 3D VR play at 60fps available for <$600" has made it a lot easier to stomach E3 this year

heebusjeebus

What the hell happened to the Red Dead 2 announcement? :mad::mad::mad: