E3 2016 - June 12th to 14th

Falthyron

And the backpedaling begins! A 4K console won't force developers to use 4K for their games. Spencer is being careful about the promises he has already made by suggesting some developers might choose performance over resolution because Project Second Coming will not be able to achieve stable frame-rates on 4K or 60fps on 4K. No surprises there, really. And with Sony's new console possibly coming this year, realistic 4K gaming is still another iteration away, discounting, of course, indie titles on console. :P

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-scorpio-wont-make-4k-mandatory-devs-could/1100-6441045/

One of the bigger news stories to come from E3 was the announcement of Microsoft's Project Scorpio, a more powerful Xbox One that can run games at 4K resolution. However, Xbox head Phil Spencer has since said that he won't make it mandatory for every game to run at 4K.

When asked on Twitter if developers can instead go for 1080p with 60 frames per second and "massively upgraded visuals," Spencer replied, "We'll talk more about this later, but we never said we'd mandate 4K frame buffer, we won't."

Spencer spoke about the subject last week on GameSpot sister site Giant Bomb's Live at E3 show, where he said letting developers do what they want is something he supports.

"We'll absolutely be open to that," Spencer said. "I think creative freedom and how you want to use the power of the box is something that I always support. I came from first party, as you guys know, so putting the right tools in the hands of the creators, the best creators, is our job as the platform.

"One thing we should make sure that everyone understands is, every game that comes out in the Xbox One family will run on the original Xbox One, Xbox One S, and Scorpio, so we have had some questions, 'Are there going to be Scorpio-exclusive games?' No, the line of games you're going to get to play is the same."

The fact that every Xbox One game can run on both the current and more powerful hardware suggests a limit as to what developers can do with Project Scorpio's tech. However, this is just conjecture. Spencer says we'll learn more about the upcoming console's specifics in the future.

Spencer has also come out to say that you shouldn't buy Scorpio expecting your current games to run better, though some of them might.

"If you look at a game like Halo 5, [it] implements something called dynamic scaling," Spencer explained. "As scenes get more complex, in order to maintain 60 frames per second, they will actually change the resolution that you're running at, and they're not the only game that does this. So if you run that game on Project Scorpio you're actually going to be at the max frame rate of that game more often."

Additionally, he said that we can expect Microsoft to release its games on Steam again, though he did not say when. In the same interview, he confirmed that Scorpio is four and half times more powerful than the original Xbox One.

He also talked about Microsoft's plan to be transparent, which is why the company was up front about announcing its two consoles at E3.

"I want to talk about Scorpio so customers can feel like they have a view into what we were doing so they could make the decision that is right for them," he said.

MiskyBoyy

Falthyron wrote:

A 4K console won't force developers to use 4K for their games.

??

Phil Spencer was clear about that from the start....

Falthyron

MiskyBoyy wrote: »

??

Phil Spencer was clear about that from the start....

What's the point of announcing a 4K capable console but not all games will run at 4K? The '4K' part is their central selling point and yet they admit not every game will be native 4K, or even 4K at all if the rumoured scaleable options are true.

Retr0gamer

I think we were all aware of that especially after the digital foundry breakdown, even the if the fanboys put their fingers in their ears shout 'lalalalala'. I'd say the 4K is there mostly to function as a 4K media player.

CiDeRmAn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think we were all aware of that especially after the digital foundry breakdown, even the if the fanboys put their fingers in their ears shout 'lalalalala'. I'd say the 4K is there mostly to function as a 4K media player.

I'm not sure what the big deal about 4k gaming is to be honest.
They haven't squeezed the current crop of 1080p consoles yet.
A console that can consistently output 1080p at 60fps, with high quality visuals would do me just fine.

MiskyBoyy

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'd say the 4K is there mostly to function as a 4K media player.

The XB1 S will be a 4k Media Player. I'd certainly expect more of Project Scorpio.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'm not sure what the big deal about 4k gaming is to be honest.
They haven't squeezed the current crop of 1080p consoles yet.
A console that can consistently output 1080p at 60fps, with high quality visuals would do me just fine.

I agree. I'd be quite happy with less than 4k but I'd be hoping for more than 1080/60. If they can as close to 1440/144 as possible I'd be happy.

Retr0gamer

I've a 1440p screen and the difference it makes over 1080p is a lot and it's not far off 4K.

However I'd echo that I'd much rather see games hit a consistent 60 FPS rather than a shaky 30 that most game devs feel is fine. However going to 30 FPS gives a hell of a lot more head room to make your game prettier and the market has shown people buy games with good graphics and not games that play at 60 FPS.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Falthyron wrote: »

What's the point of announcing a 4K capable console but not all games will run at 4K? The '4K' part is their central selling point and yet they admit not every game will be native 4K, or even 4K at all if the rumoured scaleable options are true.

What kind of mad logic is that? Of course not all games will run at 4k. By that logic,
Why would anyone play something like Minecraft or hotline Miami on a PC capable of doing so much more?








Unless.... the games were actually good and didn't need the extra grunt?

the groutch

what is 4k tv ownership even like?
MS have to remember that console gamers general don't have huge disposable income, so asking them to have to get a new tv just to see the benefits of a console is a big ask.

_Redzer_

the groutch wrote: »

what is 4k tv ownership even like?
MS have to remember that console gamers general don't have huge disposable income, so asking them to have to get a new tv just to see the benefits of a console is a big ask.

LCD 4K TVs are cheap now and getting cheaper all the time. I wouldn't buy one until OLED comes down a bit further.

4K is dropping in price ridiculously quickly compared to when 1080p TVs came out.
I don't think it'll be an issue.

Doge

the groutch wrote: »

what is 4k tv ownership even like?
MS have to remember that console gamers general don't have huge disposable income, so asking them to have to get a new tv just to see the benefits of a console is a big ask.

In bright scenes on our Sony Bravia you can see a big difference alright in the sharpness but I don't think it looks 4 times better than 1080p.

The upscaling is really good on our set though so that could be a factor, but I reckon the content isnt there yet to truly show it off, theres a lot of variables to like how its shot and the kind of sensor in the cameras.

Better Call Saul for instance is shot in a hazey style, its not bright except for the stetcher scene and it doesnt show off 4K that well. You can notice the extra detail in some things like the stained glass in the office doors.

I found Marco Polo shows it off it much better.

Documentaries would be better too I'd imagine.

Mind you the 4K demos on youtube from Sony and LG do look amazing but may have heavy processing and high end tech.

kunst nugget

Doge wrote: »

In bright scenes on our Sony Bravia you can see a big difference alright in the sharpness but I don't think it looks 4 times better than 1080p.

The upscaling is really good on our set though so that could be a factor, but I reckon the content isnt there yet to truly show it off, theres a lot of variables to like how its shot and the kind of sensor in the cameras.

Better Call Saul for instance is shot in a hazey style, its not bright except for the stetcher scene and it doesnt show off 4K that well. You can notice the extra detail in some things like the stained glass in the office doors.

I found Marco Polo shows it off it much better.

Documentaries would be better too I'd imagine.

Mind you the 4K demos on youtube from Sony and LG do look amazing but may have heavy processing and high end tech.

Daredevil really shows off the 4k really well.

Stone Deaf 4evr

the groutch wrote: »

what is 4k tv ownership even like?
MS have to remember that console gamers general don't have huge disposable income, so asking them to have to get a new tv just to see the benefits of a console is a big ask.

The tech jump has to happen at some stage, like the move from black and white to colour, from SD to HD and now onwards again. You'll always have tech or formats that fail (3d and HD-DVD) but progress continues despite the detractors who'd argue that what we have isn't good enough. MS were ahead of the curve with the network port on the original Xbox, and with the HD output of the 360. So they're obviously trying to anticipate the next advance in displays again now.

CiDeRmAn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I've a 1440p screen and the difference it makes over 1080p is a lot and it's not far off 4K.

However I'd echo that I'd much rather see games hit a consistent 60 FPS rather than a shaky 30 that most game devs feel is fine. However going to 30 FPS gives a hell of a lot more head room to make your game prettier and the market has shown people buy games with good graphics and not games that play at 60 FPS.

Worst offender, in the previous gen, must have been Crysis 3 on the consoles.
I enjoyed the PC Crysis, and the follow up on console, but my gods, Crysis 3's framerate renders the game unplayable.
In a fast paced game like this, having the screen chug because the devs felt the need to pack it full of unoptimised particle effects, it's a waste of money, even if you get it for free.
Better that they tailored the experience for the consoles, which by that time were old tech, and have a playable fun game, as they did for Crysis 2, instead of that mess of a second sequel.

Falthyron

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

What kind of mad logic is that? Of course not all games will run at 4k. By that logic,
Why would anyone play something like Minecraft or hotline Miami on a PC capable of doing so much more?








Unless.... the games were actually good and didn't need the extra grunt?

Well, when COD XVIII is announced next year and it doesn't support 4K on Xbox Project Second Coming it might make gamers question to point of upgrading their console if one of the biggest titles on console won't be playing at the resolution the new console is designed for.

I have no doubt indie games will run at 4K, but I am talking about the big selling titles, the titles that move vast numbers of consoles, the CODs, FIFAs, Battlefields, etc., etc.

Why would you spend €500 on Project Second Coming if it won't be able to play the newest COD at 4K? Especially when you already own a Xbox One and the newest COD will play on it anyway.

kunst nugget

While I agree with a lot of what you're saying, your constant need to sneeringly refer to it as Project Second Coming is really off putting.

Falthyron

kunst nugget wrote: »

While I agree with a lot of what you're saying, your constant need to sneeringly refer to it as Project Second Coming is really off putting.

Project Spencer's Career? Hank Scorpio? I am merely satirising the hype over something we know very little about. No harm meant, unless you take offense to a product and brand that really has no bearing on your life. :P As soon as we know more about the Sony 'Chosen One', undoubtedly that will come under fire too from all sides.

kunst nugget

Falthyron wrote: »

Project Spencer's Career? Hank Scorpio? I am merely satirising the hype over something we know very little about. No harm meant, unless you take offense to a product and brand that really has no bearing on your life. :P As soon as we know more about the Sony 'Chosen One', undoubtedly that will come under fire too from all sides.

It's not causing me any offence at all but it's needlessly antagonistic in a thread that could descend into fanboyism at any moment.

FAILSAFE 00

Falthyron wrote: »

What's the point of announcing a 4K capable console but not all games will run at 4K? The '4K' part is their central selling point and yet they admit not every game will be native 4K, or even 4K at all if the rumoured scaleable options are true.

Because people were saying it would be locked to 4K gaming only after interview 1 with Euro gamer.

Then in interview 2 with Giant Bomb Spencer answered the question regarding that misconception by saying devs could do whatever they like with the power of the console.

He's is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Announce a 4K console and everyone rages that it's ridiculous to have a console locked to 4K. Then lay this to rest by saying devs can do what they like with power of Scorpio and suddenly its not capable of 4K.

The confusion seems to be coming from the other camp.

FAILSAFE 00

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think we were all aware of that especially after the digital foundry breakdown, even the if the fanboys put their fingers in their ears shout 'lalalalala'. I'd say the 4K is there mostly to function as a 4K media player.

Digital foundry only tested existing hardware. They cannot test tech that has not been released yet.

Most likely the Scorpio will run on AMD's Vega tech which comes out in about 6 months time.
This line will most likely target 4K and VR.

They can give a proper analysis when they get their hands on the gear.

FAILSAFE 00

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'm not sure what the big deal about 4k gaming is to be honest.
They haven't squeezed the current crop of 1080p consoles yet.
A console that can consistently output 1080p at 60fps, with high quality visuals would do me just fine.

I agree. I thought Microsoft would aim for 1080p at 60 fps like the Neo.

It seems like they want to make a leap well over Sony while also getting a good few years out of the hardware. It's a bold move and I like it.

CiDeRmAn

The PS4 Neo doesn't interest me either, unless I can play Bloodborne 2 at 1080p and at 60fps on it, but then I'm buying a machine for the purpose of playing my existing library better, perhaps, and for the VR feature without the need for bolting on the necessary processing power.
But I've no illusions that it's a new machine, just a refinement of what is already out there.
In this regard the Neo and Scorpio are just like the XB1 and PS4, mirrors of each other, broadly speaking, with only the exclusives to apply that gentle gravity in free fall, pulling your attention to one over the other.
But my heart would be set, by then, on bigger quarry, like the PS5 or XB2, or would be if I wasn't so happy with my PS4 as it stands.
Of course, my NX will probably cool my ardour around next gen purchases, given how awesome it is bound to be....

Grayditch

Just out of interest, I had a look at the Xbox One exclusives since launch. Absolutely piddley stuff from them, in terms of quantity. That's what new consoles are about to me. Exclusives.

Benzino

Grayditch wrote: »

Just out of interest, I had a look at the Xbox One exclusives since launch. Absolutely piddley stuff from them, in terms of quantity. That's what new consoles are about to me. Exclusives.

Yeah I'm the same. It's why I thinks MS have missed a trick here, they need to invest in a few more first party devs (and not shut then down a year later).

Grayditch

If Sea Of Thieves turns out to be great, it could influenced me to pick one up. A multiplayer pirate game made by Rare is right up my street, but I'm still amazed at how exclusives aren't a major thing for Xbox.

When I think of how it was their main focus with the Xbox and the 360 ( as well as defining online console gaming), MS really was in a league of it's own until about 2011. Exclusives dried up.

Retr0gamer

Microsoft are too concerned with making money off the first party stuff they produce.

Sony have a much different mentality and a better one. They aren't concerned about sales and focus on using their first parties to create variety in their line up. More variety creates a bigger market for your console rather than focusing on the dudebro crowd like Microsoft does with narrowly focus tested games.

Grayditch

You're right about variety. I'm sometimes surprised at what games make friend of mine buy a PS4. One strict MS fan I know was turned by Towerfall Ascension. Great game, I just didn't expect it to have that influence.

If you put out enough hooks, you'll catch more fish, I guess.

heebusjeebus

Kyle Bosman from Easy Allies nails my feelings about the E3 announcements.
Microsoft = again with the confusing PR
Sony = Simple strategy; sell games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojk0Ribvu9M

Varik

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I've a 1440p screen and the difference it makes over 1080p is a lot and it's not far off 4K.

However I'd echo that I'd much rather see games hit a consistent 60 FPS rather than a shaky 30 that most game devs feel is fine. However going to 30 FPS gives a hell of a lot more head room to make your game prettier and the market has shown people buy games with good graphics and not games that play at 60 FPS.

You're playing on a native 1440P screen (guessing), for console they'd be stuck upscaling to 4K which I wouldn't look as good. Either upscaled by the TV or the Console.

We're only starting to see 4K TVs with HDMI 2.0/2.0A being common now, which allows 4K@60 with older 4K tv only doing 4K@30 (some can also only do 30 above 1080p).

tok9

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Kyle Bosman from Easy Allies nails my feelings about the E3 announcements.
Microsoft = again with the confusing PR
Sony = Simple strategy; sell games.

Ya I couldn't agree more with that video. I hate the way most speakers talk in a press conference. No one cares about your stupid buzz words. Just speak naturally and let the game speak for itself.

The reason everyone got so caught up with Unravel and No Man's Sky was because the developers weren't natural conference speakers and others respond to that.