The user politics of FCP fees

BoatMad told me queuing wasn't an issue despite me regularly queuing at Naas and Newlands for 9 months of daily fast charger usage. He only has his a few months.

Perhaps all the fuss I made on facebook and actually made people think about those who need the chargers or perhaps don't want to face someone who really needs it.

There was one woman I met one evening at Naas who was there for the free juice and holy Jesus did she make a fuss about it on FB or what ? anyway maybe people are not wanting to face the hassle over a lousy 1 Euro's something's worth of electricity or maybe Naas and Newlands is just as busy ? I don't know any more because fast charging is rare for me now but to say queuing is no issue is plain wrong especially with all the Facebook craziness back then, but as I said , maybe people realise now that charging at home is actually better for everyone.

BoatMad

There was one woman I met one evening at Naas who was there for the free juice and holy Jesus did she make a fuss about it on FB or what ? anyway maybe people are not wanting to face the hassle over a lousy 1 Euro's something's worth of electricity or maybe Naas and Newlands is just as busy ? I don't know any more because fast charging is rare for me now but to say queuing is no issue is plain wrong especially with all the Facebook craziness back then, but as I said , maybe people realise now that charging at home is actually better for everyone.

thats would be fine if is was 1 euro,the proposals would have made it more then 10euros and worked out dearer then diesel

Naas is a mad spot and should be removed , thats the simple answer, FCPs, should be in windswept spots on the side of major roads

Id say Ive been in more FCPs then you mad_lad, and thats all thats matters, most down the country are free with no queuing , on 30 visits for far to athlone, carlow , and kilbeggan , Ive had to queue once at athlone for about 10 minutes and never in the other two

If all you do is visit the same FCP , you do not form a proper perspective on the issue as a whole, you need to get around more, but then you use the diesel l for that dont you! for example If all I did was repeatedly visit Gorey , I would form a view of FCP hogging that is totally wrong , elapsed time is irrelevant , its visiting multiple FCPs that count

Coynes gets busy at rush hours when people are on the way home , so I avoid that time, Wexford , never had to queue , or at least 10 visits by now, I tend to visit Coynes out of rush hour and yes there is sometime a queue at other times there ( not surprising )

waterford , 1 queue ( 40 minutes , couldnt work out what the guy was doing ) , all the rest were free, wexford , no queue in Nissan , no queue in Nissan Dungarvan, no queue in Topaz frank field in Cork ( despite lots of ICE traffic in general ) , no queue in Topaz Tempelvile road, not queue in DUnlaoghaire FCP, no Queue in maldron stillorgan ( all multiple visits )

Queue in Midway and Nass was Iced, till I asked her to move , no EV queue , but these are in frequent FCP chargers for me

Ive left out many more that are single visits

Gorey is definitely an issue and is the direct fault of the Taxi ( I believe there are two )


the fact is folks , we cannot expect a a FCP to be free when we arrive, as EVS grow the charger network will not keep up that clear, right now we are spoiled

So you're telling me that as a commuter visiting the same 2 FCP's daily didn't give me a proper perspective ? Like I'm somewhat not entitled or in a position to give a factual opinion ? I don't know why you think you're in a superior position to be able to try talk down to me because you're all of a sudden an EV owner or have the time to be a member of the Irish EV owners Association Committee. The fact is Naas and Newlands Is/Was a black spot and the DC network should serve the busiest part of the country a lot better.

There was a very heated Facebook debate at the time on the original Irish EV Owners FB group, not the association that you're a committee member of where people are vastly more civilised but have a lot less members, So I obviously wasn't the only one experiencing this and it wasn't just newlands or Naas either. But that was probably long before you became interested in electrics.

As I said no one will care about the cost of fast chargers when the range improves to 300 + kms because most people will charge at home with the "odd" fast charge, people with no access to home charging , well this issue is far more important to address than fast charger costs and should be debated in the Dail.

The most important thing for EV adoption is range, the DC network and home charging for apartment owners and people with no driveways.

yqtwqxqm

I think your average commuter would actually be taking the same route to work every day around rush hour, therefore using whatever chargers are on that route. Thats a much more realistic commute than someone going all over the place to different places at different times.

Exactly and driving off peak isn't a good way to judge the DC network !!!

Marcusm

BoatMad wrote: »

I personally think we will see battery capacities expand over the next 20 years. We could see 100-150 -200 kWh batteries in luxury sedans etc.

It's clear that this is not home charging territory.

The more I look at it the more I think Tesla have called it correctly , more range on the car coupled with large format high powered charging parks.
It should be noted that these charger parks are FREE !

Isn't that key to their business model to encourage usability and customer stickiness. Nissan are probably agnostic as to whether, once they have sold you a Leaf, whether you purchase another one or revert back to ICE as they have significant offerings in that sector too. Tesla on the other hand NEEDS to ensure that customers can charge. Having spent many moons traversing UK motorways, I have rarely seen moe than one Tesla charging at a time but there are always 6-8 available bays. That will assist in attracting more high value customers who want that consistency and who are not price conscious.

It strikes me that the governmental input should be legislative rather than financial. For example, every dealership selling EVs should be required to provide 1 or 2 charging points for public access. Likewise, each fuel station with more than (say) 8 pumps should be required to provide charging points at their cost.

BoatMad

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

I think your average commuter would actually be taking the same route to work every day around rush hour, therefore using whatever chargers are on that route. Thats a much more realistic commute than someone going all over the place to different places at different times.

yes but as far as ascertaining the issue of hogging, all ones sees is the effect in one or two FCP locations, you cannot then generalise any more that that

for example if you visit Nass FCP repeatedly , and you find hogging an issue, you cannot then generalise that all FCPs are like this or even that hogging is a problem in anything other then the FCP you have experience of

In my case I hit some FCP and peak commuter times ( typically M11 corridor ) and then I hot a lot of other FCPs at all sorts of times. ( Ive actually found saturday to be busy )

This has relevance , because what I see is that caertain people ( and more then on here ) make the following statement

1. "x' charger is always blocked
2. fees should be brought in to regulate the FCP usage
3. " I dont use FCP that much anyway "

1. is undoutbaly true , 2. is a unsupported generalisation , 3, is self-centric

See BoatMad, you weren't around the original Irish EV owners Facebook Group and lucky for you too, it wasn't a pleasant place.

There was a lot of debate and anger over charger hogging. There are a lot more members on that group than on the Association. I created a mega uproar because I suggested people charge at home when they don't need to use the DC.

Maybe people have realised that it's better to charge at home now and it has made a difference, but I've not used Naas or Newlands cross DC in a long time.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

See BoatMad, you weren't around the original Irish EV owners Facebook Group and lucky for you too, it wasn't a pleasant place.

There was a lot of debate and anger over charger hogging. There are a lot more members on that group than on the Association. I created a mega uproar because I suggested people charge at home when they don't need to use the DC.

Maybe people have realised that it's better to charge at home now and it has made a difference, but I've not used Naas or Newlands cross DC in a long time.

Im well aware of the issues in relation to that

I am also aware that there is a cohort of users that abuse the FCP system rattle then charging at home,

BUT , these are not necessarily the " hoggers" . To me a hogger is a person that plugs in to an FCP and disappears even though the car is charged. A hogger is not a person that finds they need to repeatedly charge at FCPs.

I like you , completely understand that home charging should be the first port of call with current EVs and I said so at the recent IEVOA AGM

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

To me a hogger is a person that plugs in to an FCP and disappears even though the car is charged.

A hogger is not a person that finds they need to repeatedly charge at FCPs.

A hogger is someone who uses the network because they can and not because they need to also Someone who is also looking to save money by not charging at home.

I've no problem with someone hogging chargers as long as they move on when someone pulls up who needs it.

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

I like you , completely understand that home charging should be the first port of call with current EVs and I said so at the recent IEVOA AGM

Boatmad, I think the punctuation and the first three words of that paragraph is a Freudian slip. You and mad lad should really meet up!

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

Boatmad, I think the punctuation and the first three words of that paragraph is a Freudian slip. You and mad lad should really meet up!

hmmm...........:D:D:D:D

yqtwqxqm

BoatMad wrote: »

yes but as far as ascertaining the issue of hogging, all ones sees is the effect in one or two FCP locations, you cannot then generalise any more that that

for example if you visit Nass FCP repeatedly , and you find hogging an issue, you cannot then generalise that all FCPs are like this or even that hogging is a problem in anything other then the FCP you have experience of

In my case I hit some FCP and peak commuter times ( typically M11 corridor ) and then I hot a lot of other FCPs at all sorts of times. ( Ive actually found saturday to be busy )

This has relevance , because what I see is that caertain people ( and more then on here ) make the following statement

1. "x' charger is always blocked
2. fees should be brought in to regulate the FCP usage
3. " I dont use FCP that much anyway "

1. is undoutbaly true , 2. is a unsupported generalisation , 3, is self-centric

I didnt say hogging.
I said queues at fcps. And Ive seen queuing often enough for it to be a problem for me. Several times that it has effectively ruined my day and that of my passengers.
We need to be able to pull up at a charging station and fill up, just like in a petrol station.

BoatMad

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

I didnt say hogging.
I said queues at fcps. And Ive seen queuing often enough for it to be a problem for me. Several times that it has effectively ruined my day and that of my passengers.
We need to be able to pull up at a charging station and fill up, just like in a petrol station.

Unfortunately , with the current scatter gun approach to siting FCPs and the low range of todays EVs, expecting tesla style charging parks will not happen in the short term

Nor is a fee regime a way to reduce queues, other then killing EV take-up

The fact is to get EVs on the map , we have to build numbers of EVs. Thats make the Gov sit up and take notice

However the downside will be increasing queueing at single point FCPs , its going to be a reality of EV ownership

yqtwqxqm

BoatMad wrote: »

Unfortunately , with the current scatter gun approach to siting FCPs and the low range of todays EVs, expecting tesla style charging parks will not happen in the short term

Nor is a fee regime a way to reduce queues, other then killing EV take-up

The fact is to get EVs on the map , we have to build numbers of EVs. Thats make the Gov sit up and take notice

However the downside will be increasing queueing at single point FCPs , its going to be a reality of EV ownership

I had a person practically sold on buying an EV with me in the car. By the end of the trip after the queuing, himself and anybody he speaks to now will not be buying an ev. Thats the reality.

Also ive spoken to a lot of people driving ices who wandered over to watch me charging and were very quick to cop on that i would be there some time before i could continue. None were impressed with evs after that.

Maybe they won't buy them in their current low range form but when the 300 + kms come this should be an issue, reliance on the DC network will be greatly reduced.

Sadly I can't see many more if any new DC points being installed in Ireland before 2018 and probably later without Government funding or more E.U donations.

September1

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

I had a person practically sold on buying an EV with me in the car. By the end of the trip after the queuing, himself and anybody he speaks to now will not be buying an ev. Thats the reality.

Also ive spoken to a lot of people driving ices who wandered over to watch me charging and were very quick to cop on that i would be there some time before i could continue. None were impressed with evs after that.

It takes 20-30 minutes to charge car even if there is no queue, which already is a factor that goes against EVs. When you add queues to that, you are looking at much more.