Should another Garda Commissioner resign?

RustyNut

tayto lover wrote: »

But he had jurisdiction of the junior garda and if he was the sergeant in charge then the buck stopped with him surely.
I wonder why he didn't order the young garda members and the other sergeants under him to re-investigate all the poorly investigated incidents and do it properly?. Why not order them back out to investigate properly instead of keeping notes about their failures? He was their immediate boss.
I have relatives in that part of the country and they can't understand this either.

All I can say is read the book with an open mind, it clears up lots of the rumors about McCabe that have no basis in truth.

Captain Obvious

Matt Barrett wrote: »

This is the problem with a smear campaign. A Garda puts forward concerns about the organisation and we are fed rumours and gossip about the Garda. The breath tests have faded into memory. A partially successful campaign it seems.

No, the problem is that people don't separate the source of the leak from the information leaked. You can appreciate what McCabe did without holding him up as flawless.

tayto lover

Matt Barrett wrote: »

This is the problem with a smear campaign. A Garda puts forward concerns about the organisation and we are fed rumours and gossip about the Garda. The breath tests have faded into memory. A partially successful campaign it seems.

But this is nothing to do with the Tribunal or smear campaign as someone already said.
The question I have asked is about his role in the poor policing in that area.
It is something i'd personally like to get the answer to.

James Brown

Captain Obvious wrote: »

No, the problem is that people don't separate the source of the leak from the information leaked. You can appreciate what McCabe did without holding him up as flawless.

I would suggest it started with McCabe citing irregularities and the first mention or regard to his character came in the negative.
Or are you suggesting it was like, 'This saint of a man, like Mother Teresa he is, has raised concerns about issues within An Garda'?

If I walk into a Garda station to report something does the desk Sargent go around passing rumours about me or investigate me, or does he/she look into my claims and follow up based on the merits of those claims?

The idea that McCabe came out with concerns and the rumour mill cranked up with 'He's no saint' leads me to believe there is certainly a Garda grapevine and a smear campaign, even if all the players did or did not know the rumours and allegations they were peddling were true or not. We know they knew they were unproven.

Water John

I think people are confusing the role of, Desk Sargent, with being the Senior Officer of a Station. I myself would not be fully, au fait, and someone may possibly explain the exact difference.

Captain Obvious

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I would suggest it started with McCabe citing irregularities and the first mention or regard to his character came in the negative.
Or are you suggesting it was like, 'This saint of a man, like Mother Teresa he is, has raised concerns about issues within An Garda'?

If I walk into a Garda station to report something does the desk Sargent go around passing rumours about me or investigate me, or does he/she look into my claims and follow up based on the merits of those claims?

The idea that McCabe came out with concerns and the rumour mill cranked up with 'He's no saint' leads me to believe there is certainly a Garda grapevine and a smear campaign, even if all the players did or did not know the rumours and allegations they were peddling were true or not. We know they knew they were unproven.

Think we are talking about two different things.

tayto lover

Water John wrote: »

I think people are confusing the role of, Desk Sargent, with being the Senior Officer of a Station. I myself would not be fully, au fait, and someone may possibly explain the exact difference.

It has been explained to me that in a station there might be 6 or 7 sergeants and each has a number of garda under him.
There is one sergeant who is in charge of all of them. In Bailiebore that was Sgt Mc Cabe.
All their work goes through his office for him to inspect before it goes to the higher officers like a Superintendant.

The question I asked was why Sgt McCabe didn't make them do their jobs properly and make them re-investigate all the badly dealt with incidents instead of letting it go through and then whistleblowing on it? He seems to have kept notes about all the badly investigated stuff but could have had it fixed himself as his position allowed for. I can't understand this part.

James Brown

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Think we are talking about two different things.

I'm saying I don't recall anyone suggesting he was 'flawless'. It was about his claims or concerns until it was attempted to make it about him.
The claims should and could be investigated without the need to spread rumours about him. If his claims were unfounded then we've a different matter to address, but still the spreading of malicious gossip should not be part of that.

RustyNut

tayto lover wrote: »

But this is nothing to do with the Tribunal or smear campaign as someone already said.
The question I have asked is about his role in the poor policing in that area.
It is something i'd personally like to get the answer to.

The rumors about McCabe being an inefficient supervisor and a bad sergeant only started when he began to raise issues about malpractice in AGS, some of these issues include management practices in Bailieborough. Here is quote from the Guerin Report on McCabes performance as a Sergeant. I'll leave it up to you to decide why this narrative changed.

20.5 It should be recorded here that the Byrne-McGinn report found that:
"No malice on the part of Sergeant McCabe is established in the
making of his various complaints."
20.6 The time I have spent with Sergeant McCabe in the course of extensive
interviews has led me to no different conclusion. That said, the better
view, in any event, is likely to be the testimony of the men and women who
worked with Sergeant McCabe in the years before he made the complaints
that have been examined in this report.
20.7 The Byrne-McGinn investigation received statements from all of the District
Officers who had responsibility for Bailieboro District between 2003 and
2010. Chief Superintendent Gabriel Mclntyre said:
"I found Sergeant McCabe to be very positive and energetic in his
position. He displayed a strong work ethic with a strong emphasis in
community policing and to providing a high standard of policing to
the community."
20.8 Detective Superintendent Eugene Corcoran said:
"I found Sergeant McCabe to be capable and enthusiastic in his
approach to his duties. At all times I found him to be efficient. . . . I
would assess his performance very positively. In my experience he
was hard working and efficient. He understood the need to keep the
District Officer advised of all matters requiring attention at
Superintendent Level. . . . I found him to be very interested in his
work and in ensuring that matters were attended to promptly."
I 20.9 Retired Superintendent Liam Hogan said:
"I considered Sergeant McCabe to be an excellent Sergeant and
member of An Garda Siochana. He offered 200% commitment and was
my one of my most reliable members in the District. I relied on him, I
trusted him implicitly and I listened to his advice. . . . He was full of
enthusiasm with a very positive attitude. I was aware that he worked Chapter 20 Conclusions and Recommendations
hard and long hours displaying absolute loyalty and commitment to
An Garda Siochana, to the management team in the District, to his
colleagues and to the people of Balieboro. He took a particular
interest in the work progress and welfare of junior members in the
District HQ."
20.10 Superintendent M Lernihan said:
"I found [Sergeant McCabe] to be efficient, flexible and committed.
He was diligent in the performance of his duties. He encouraged and
directed those under his supervision and had a good working
relationship with the other Sergeants."

tayto lover

RustyNut wrote: »

The rumors about McCabe being an inefficient supervisor and a bad sergeant only started when he began to raise issues about malpractice in AGS, some of these issues include management practices in Bailieborough. Here is quote from the Guerin Report on McCabes performance as a Sergeant. I'll leave it up to you to decide why this narrative changed.

Yes that seems to have been the case as I saw that in the Guerin Report yet some serious incidents seem to have slipped his radar i.e. the assault and shoddy work regarding the assault on the female taxi driver. I still can't understand how those happened without him seeing them. Those incidents don't seem to have been explained anywhere afaik.

RustyNut

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes that seems to have been the case as I saw that in the Guerin Report yet some serious incidents seem to have slipped his radar i.e. the assault and shoddy work regarding the assault on the female taxi driver. I still can't understand how those happened without him seeing them. Those incidents don't seem to have been explained anywhere afaik.

I repeat, read Mick Cliffords book.

Auguste Comte

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes that seems to have been the case as I saw that in the Guerin Report yet some serious incidents seem to have slipped his radar i.e. the assault and shoddy work regarding the assault on the female taxi driver. I still can't understand how those happened without him seeing them. Those incidents don't seem to have been explained anywhere afaik.

What leads you to believe that this is the case?

tayto lover

Auguste Comte wrote: »

What leads you to believe that this is the case?

Because they happened and shouldn't have.
I'll have to buy the book now to see how they're explained.

Auguste Comte

tayto lover wrote: »

Because they happened and shouldn't have.
I'll have to buy the book now to see how they're explained.

Sorry I wasn't clear in my question, what makes you think that McCabe didn't see or react correctly to these incidents?

I've read the book, it's an eye opener. I'd recommend it to anyone with an interest how the Guards work and relate to society in general.

tayto lover

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Sorry I wasn't clear in my question, what makes you think that McCabe didn't see or react correctly to these incidents?

I've read the book, it's an eye opener. I'd recommend it to anyone with an interest how the Guards work and relate to society in general.

Because nothing was done about them at the time. He had the power to make the people under him investigate them properly and that didn't happen.
I wanted to know the reason.

Captain Obvious

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'm saying I don't recall anyone suggesting he was 'flawless'. It was about his claims or concerns until it was attempted to make it about him.
The claims should and could be investigated without the need to spread rumours about him. If his claims were unfounded then we've a different matter to address, but still the spreading of malicious gossip should not be part of that.

No argument there.

RustyNut

RustyNut wrote: »

The rumors about McCabe being an inefficient supervisor and a bad sergeant only started when he began to raise issues about malpractice in AGS, some of these issues include management practices in Bailieborough. Here is quote from the Guerin Report on McCabes performance as a Sergeant. I'll leave it up to you to decide why this narrative changed.

All those quotes come from supervisors of McCabe. No quotes from anyone of Garda or sergeant rank.
Remember, there was no higher rank than McCabe in bailieboro. He Was The 'boss' there.
Now, clearly there was a problem because there were too many probationer Gardai in the station.
I think those Gardai suffered though......they missed out on a lot of guidance & advise.

Also, if the Garda commissioner wishes to engage in gossip, he should do it with close friends. Anything he says to people outside of his own small circle is of course going to be taken as fact.
He is either very naive ( which I really don't believe) or so full of his own importance that he never believed anyone would question his word.
I don't know whether he knew or not that there were to be no charges, but he still should have had more sense.

Nettle Soup

What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive...

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0504/960265-disclosures-tribunal-gardai/

The Disclosures Tribunal has heard that only 3 out of 15 mobile phone handsets used by former commissioners Martin Callinan, Nóirín O'Sullivan and former head of the garda press office, Superintendent David Taylor, have been recovered and handed over to the inquiry.

A total of 12 phones, used in the period of interest, have gone missing and cannot be located.

The tribunal has heard that some phones may have been given to the Jack and Jill Foundation.

However, Supt Flynn said no log was kept of phones donated so there is no evidence tracing particular phones.

He said they were just "factory reset" and thrown in the Jack and Jill box.

Disgusting.

Captain Obvious

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Disgusting.

Charity?

James Brown

Nettle Soup wrote: »

What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive...

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0504/960265-disclosures-tribunal-gardai/





Disgusting.

I'd be more curious about the amount of different phones a person had at any one time and why?

This needs to be addressed:

Audit of Garda finds ‘supervision vacuum’ and culture of silence
Some 6,500 Garda members responded to the PWC survey, around 40 per cent of the force. The findings suggest that while change is underway, very significant reforms are needed.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/audit-of-garda-finds-supervision-vacuum-and-culture-of-silence-1.3484233

I knew management had no loyalty to rank and file after they threw them under the bus for the breath tests.

McMurphy

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Charity?

I wonder if he donated the 10 x black bags of his shredded personal papers to charity too?

Bedding for the local donkey sanctuary perhaps?

Hitman3000

To lose a phone is unfortunate, but to lose 12 or to be unable to account for them....... nothing to see move along.

James Brown

Hitman3000 wrote: »

To lose a phone is unfortunate, but to lose 12 or to be unable to account for them....... nothing to see move along.

If donating, you would take the sim card out for starters.

Captain Obvious

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'd be more curious about the amount of different phones a person had at any one time and why?

I would guess that upper management phones are regularly upgraded for security reasons. Seems nobody looked for the old ones back. Probably considered a perk.

James Brown

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I would guess that upper management phones are regularly upgraded for security reasons. Seems nobody looked for the old ones back. Probably considered a perk.

I can see that. But you'd use the same SIM unless it was damaged. I've had the same sim card for near ten years.
Are we to believe they started from scratch with every new phone?
It will be interesting if the phones retrieved only have texts to and from Garda Patrol.

The only possibility is if those on the other end of the calls, texts, have theirs. The phone company should have some kind of logs.

tayto lover

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I knew management had no loyalty to rank and file after they threw them under the bus for the breath tests.

It says a lot about the people at the head of the Garda that the frontline workers have absolutely no time for them or trust in them. I also noted in that link that they still promote their own (favourites) and it's not done on ability. These promoted Garda are obviously used to inform on lower ranks or any dissention in the lower ranks. The same happens with the senior Garda members who were promoted by politicians. People at the bottom afraid to open their mouths because of the consequences.

It's a whole game of control.

Muahahaha

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I would guess that upper management phones are regularly upgraded for security reasons. Seems nobody looked for the old ones back. Probably considered a perk.

OSullivan went through 6 phones in 2 years so one every four months. Many Garda phones in question were said to be Nokias. I wonder did she learn that one from the gangland criminals with their Nokia burner phones.

loads of phones missing, then the bags of paperwork shreaded or taken away, then the whole CUT and Paste fiasco from the civil servant who issued the letter to investigate McCabe as a "kiddy fiddler".... etc , ad nauseum . shocking stuff.

Auguste Comte

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I would guess that upper management phones are regularly upgraded for security reasons. Seems nobody looked for the old ones back. Probably considered a perk.

I would think that all communication devices used by the head of the Guards who is also the head of the state security service should be logged and stored securely when they are no longer needed.