2016 Women's World Championships

Joe_ Public

pac_man wrote: »

I watched Alekseevna both against France and Alexis Pritchard(New Zealand) the other day. From watching Alekseevna, she's obviously better when someone is coming onto her rather than having to initiate an attack.She paws that right hand out trying to get you to commit,a quintessential counter puncher. NZ almost had the perfect tactics of letting Alekseevna attack and overreach. All she did (NZ) was use her reach advantage to take half a step back and counter.I had the fight a draw.

The point I'm trying to make is that styles make fights. We're comparing someone who is 5"10 in NZ against Taylor 5"6 and we just automatically assume that Alekseevna is going to box the same way. I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that Taylor wins that fight handy.

Fair point about styles making fights. As regards the Pritchard fight, however, we're talking about a veteran boxer who has achieved very little at the top level. So reach advantage or not, it was a fight I didnt just expect Alekseevna to win but to do with style. And watching it, Pritchard gave as good as she got for a round/round a half and with a bit more belief I thought, could have gone close to an upset. All I'm saying is I believe Taylor would have destroyed the Alekseevna of that fight and of today's as well, regardless of how the styles set up. And also because I believe the motivation/revenge/call it what you will factor would be in her corner too.

I'm not losing sight of the fact that in 3 fights, Alekseevna has troubled her in one and beaten her in another, I just can't get my head around the fact of how poor she was this week.

Joe_ Public

Strazdas wrote: »

In the final of the Olympic qualifiers in Turkey, Alekseevna made very heavy going of her fight against the teenage Italian Testa (a boxer who lost in the first round of this World Championship). I don't buy the theory that she wasn't focussed on this tournament and had her eyes on Rio....coming away from the World Championships without a medal and off the back of a hammering seems a lousy way of preparing for the Olympics and is surely a big dent in her confidence.

Alekseevna inched past Testa in Turkey. Mossely beat Alekseevna all hands up in Astana. Testa beat Mossely in Turkey. Confused? I certainly am a bit

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Alekseevna inched past Testa in Turkey. Mossely beat Alekseevna all hands up in Astana. Testa beat Mossely in Turkey. Confused? I certainly am a bit

Down to what pac_man mentioned, styles. Relating to Katie. She is a few inches shorter than Alekseevna. She will not do very well from range. She beats her via mid range to close range. In and out, plenty of volume and plenty of variety and angles. She lost last month because she didn't bring pace and volume. She was not busy enough. I liken it to a small terrier harrassing a horse. Non stop in and out with next to no break in the action. She didn't do that last month, allowing the horse time and rhythm.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Down to what pac_man mentioned, styles. Relating to Katie. She is a few inches shorter than Alekseevna. She will not do very well from range. She beats her via mid range to close range. In and out, plenty of volume and plenty of variety and angles. She lost last month because she didn't bring pace and volume. She was not busy enough. I liken it to a small terrier harrassing a horse. Non stop in and out with next to no break in the action. She didn't do that last month, allowing the horse time and rhythm.

Yes, I get the point about styles, it's well made and Katie Taylor, as we know, isn't always comfortable fighting southpaws. She breathes a sigh of relief when Ochigava quits the scene only to discover Ochigava 2.0 (and a couple of inches taller to boot) arrives to take her place. But the Alekseevna in Astana is not the same one who was in Turkey last month which is what perplexes me.

And why I'm confused is that Testa beats Mossely and pushes Alekseevna hard in Turkey and then comes here and loses to the Swede whom Taylor brushes aside with ease in the next round. Could be all down to styles I suppose, and every fight is different with its own dynamics, but seems to suggest to me there's no outstanding pecking order in the 60kg right now (apart from Taylor indisputably at the top). They can all beat each other on any given day.

Chivito550

How will the seedings work for Rio? Will there be 2 seeds, 4 seeds or 8 seeds? Alekseevna losing here could mean Taylor fighting her in the quarter finals (Taylor's first fight, Alekseevna's second). I'd much rather her on the other side of the draw, out of sight until the final.

Joe_ Public

Chivito550 wrote: »

How will the seedings work for Rio? Will there be 2 seeds, 4 seeds or 8 seeds? Alekseevna losing here could mean Taylor fighting her in the quarter finals (Taylor's first fight, Alekseevna's second). I'd much rather her on the other side of the draw, out of sight until the final.

Have heard nothing yet, they'll probably make an announcement on it like a week before it starts or something. They'd surely need to update the world rankings if they're going to have more than 2 seeds at least.

Chivito550

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Have heard nothing yet, they'll probably make an announcement on it like a week before it starts or something. They'd surely need to update the world rankings if they're going to have more than 2 seeds at least.

I think it was only 2 seeds for London. Silly system IMO. Natasha Jonas was probably the third best boxer in the division but ended up without a medal because of flawed seeding.

Dodge

They're all seeded. It isn't a free draw. It's ranked 1 to whatever with the AIBA. They just don't announce them as seeds. The actual draw is just an unveiling. The problem is that the rankings are convoluted and pointless (ie the european qualifiers didn't count). Jonas was a nothing fighter btw. She won bronze at the 2012 worlds but had BY FAR the easiest quarter of the draw

There's only 12 fighters in Katie's division so she'll definitely be ranked and definitely have a bye (and one fight for a medal)

The top 8 at the worlds were
1 Ireland (SF, Olympics)
2 Russia (SF, Olympics)
3 China (QF, Olympics)
4 France (SF, Olympics)
5 Azerbaijan (QF, Olympics)
6 Korea No Olympics
7 Poland No Olympics
8 Kazakstan No Olympics

There's no chance Katie won't be one of the top 2 seeds, The Finnish girl will move up the rankings but she hasn't done much before to be ranked in top 4. The other Olympic qualifiers are Italy (lost 1st round), Morocco (lost QF), Brazil (lost last 16), USA (lost last 32), Australia (didn't compete) and a tripartite invitation that won't trouble the rankings

Joe_ Public

Dodge wrote: »

They're all seeded. It isn't a free draw. It's ranked 1 to whatever with the AIBA. They just don't announce them as seeds. The actual draw is just an unveiling. The problem is that the rankings are convoluted and pointless (ie the european qualifiers didn't count). Jonas was a nothing fighter btw. She won bronze at the 2012 worlds but had BY FAR the easiest quarter of the draw

There's only 12 fighters in Katie's division so she'll definitely be ranked and definitely have a bye (and one fight for a medal)

The top 8 at the worlds were
1 Ireland (SF, Olympics)
2 Russia (SF, Olympics)
3 China (QF, Olympics)
4 France (SF, Olympics)
5 Azerbaijan (QF, Olympics)
6 Korea No Olympics
7 Poland No Olympics
8 Kazakstan No Olympics

There's no chance Katie won't be one of the top 2 seeds, The Finnish girl will move up the rankings but she hasn't done much before to be ranked in top 4. The other Olympic qualifiers are Italy (lost 1st round), Morocco (lost QF), Brazil (lost last 16), USA (lost last 32), Australia (didn't compete) and a tripartite invitation that won't trouble the rankings

Are the rankings for what their worth ever updated or does the AIBA just not bother publish them?

Dodge

They publish them every now and again but I don't think there's any set time

http://d152tffy3gbaeg.cloudfront.net/2015/09/Womens-Light-57-60-kg.pdf

These are from April and kinda go against everything I've said above. You can see they have Ochigava in there even though she hasn't fought in 2 years.

FWIW I'd rank Shelley Watts of Australia as Katie's biggest rival

Just to clrify, it's still not an open draw. They do ranked all fighters from 1 to whatever and then it's tournament style. if if there's 12 of them it'll be
1st rd
a) 12 v 5
b) 11 v 6
c) 10 v 7
d) 9 v 8

2nd rd
1 v d
2 v c
3 v b
4 v a

Joe_ Public

Dodge wrote: »

They publish them every now and again but I don't think there's any set time

http://d152tffy3gbaeg.cloudfront.net/2015/09/Womens-Light-57-60-kg.pdf

These are from April and kinda go against everything I've said above. You can see they have Ochigava in there even though she hasn't fought in 2 years.

FWIW I'd rank Shelley Watts of Australia as Katie's biggest rival

Just to clrify, it's still not an open draw. They do ranked all fighters from 1 to whatever and then it's tournament style. if if there's 12 of them it'll be
1st rd
a) 12 v 5
b) 11 v 6
c) 10 v 7
d) 9 v 8

2nd rd
1 v d
2 v c
3 v b
4 v a

Thanks. I don't know why I couldn't find that! I haven't seen a lot of Watts although she's been around a while. Same goes for the Russian boxer, I'd be a little bit concerned about her too.

Strazdas

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Alekseevna inched past Testa in Turkey. Mossely beat Alekseevna all hands up in Astana. Testa beat Mossely in Turkey. Confused? I certainly am a bit

I suppose all it tells us is that this division is very competitive and anyone on a good day is capable of beating one of the others from the top 10.

There are definite question marks hanging over Alekseevna though. After Baku last year and Turkey this year, the Irish media were talking her up as the main challenger from this division to Taylor in Rio. We do know that Taylor doesn't like boxing her and finds her a very awkward customer but it may also be the case that Alekseevna is not all she's cracked up to be......she certainly doesn't seem to have anywhere near Taylor's level of consistency.

Strazdas

Chivito550 wrote: »

How will the seedings work for Rio? Will there be 2 seeds, 4 seeds or 8 seeds? Alekseevna losing here could mean Taylor fighting her in the quarter finals (Taylor's first fight, Alekseevna's second). I'd much rather her on the other side of the draw, out of sight until the final.

Some people were saying that it was a pity Taylor didn't have a chance this week to avenge her defeat to Alekseevna but perhaps Rio would be the ideal place to do it instead, not here. It will definitely be intriguing to see what happens in Rio : even if Alekseevna is on the opposite side of the draw, it's by no means certain she will be good enough to reach an Olympic final herself.

Dodge

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Thanks. I don't know why I couldn't find that! I haven't seen a lot of Watts although she's been around a while. Same goes for the Russian boxer, I'd be a little bit concerned about her too.

Watts fought at light welter in 2012 and lost to the winner. Fought at Light in 2014 and lost to Alekseevna. She won gold at the commonwealth games and eased through the Asian qualifier (beating Chorieva the Olympic medalist)

I don't think she's fought Taylor once. That's the only issue for me

Joe_ Public

Dodge wrote: »

Watts fought at light welter in 2012 and lost to the winner. Fought at Light in 2014 and lost to Alekseevna. She won gold at the commonwealth games and eased through the Asian qualifier (beating Chorieva the Olympic medalist)

I don't think she's fought Taylor once. That's the only issue for me

I did watch a lot of the commonwealth boxing, just dont have a clear memory of her. I don't think Taylor has ever fought the Russian either and she too is a reigning world champion. It's the known unknowns that scare me!

Joe_ Public

Strazdas wrote: »

I suppose all it tells us is that this division is very competitive and anyone on a good day is capable of beating one of the others from the top 10.

There are definite question marks hanging over Alekseevna though. After Baku last year and Turkey this year, the Irish media were talking her up as the main challenger from this division to Taylor in Rio. We do know that Taylor doesn't like boxing her and finds her a very awkward customer but it may also be the case that Alekseevna is not all she's cracked up to be......she certainly doesn't seem to have anywhere near Taylor's level of consistency.

Actually I tend to agree with you. I'm not inclined to get too fixated about Alekseevna or Mossely when I feel there could be bigger threats lurking elsewhere.

Dodge

Harrington is very, very impressive here in the semi. Well up after 2

Joe_ Public

This is phenomenal. She is simply stunning, its incredible. Actually thought she might have lost the first, but no matter, she has battered her in the last two. Amazing.

paulie21

She was so dominate after a slow start real pity there's no Olympics for her weight class

Dodge

Won quite easily in the end. Very impressive. only the 5th Irish boxer to reach a World Championship final after Katie Taylor, Jason Quigley, Michael Conlan & Joe Ward

Joe_ Public

Actually surprised to learn she's 26, i'd assumed she was younger. Wonder why she didn't come through sooner, hopefully she'll still get a chance in 2020.

walshb

Unreal. Delighted for Kellie. Looks like we'll have at least two silvers. Her final opponent? Who is she, and what is she like?

Dodge

walshb wrote: »

Unreal. Delighted for Kellie. Looks like we'll have at least two silvers. Her final opponent? Who is she, and what is she like?

Chinese boxer. She was 3rd seed. She's Asian champion. She won her semi with an Aussie fairly handily too

Joe_ Public

Dodge wrote: »

Chinese boxer. She was 3rd seed. She's Asian champion. She won her semi with an Aussie fairly handily too

Should be a good final. Yang has beaten Jajaira Gonzalez who was a lightweight moving up and Sandy Ryan who GB really rate, but I think Harrington would have beaten either on her displays this week. I think she has a good chance of gold here.

Strazdas

The good news is that the 'Katie Taylor effect' is starting to kick in. The rapid growth in women's boxing here with Katie as the flagbearer always made it a possibility that girls like Kellie would come through. Reaching a WC final is phenomenal stuff though for an Irish boxer.

Joe_ Public

Strazdas wrote: »

The good news is that the 'Katie Taylor effect' is starting to kick in. The rapid growth in women's boxing here with Katie as the flagbearer always made it a possibility that girls like Kellie would come through. Reaching a WC final is phenomenal stuff though for an Irish boxer.

Absolutely. The strange thing is, though, that Harrington has been national champion for 6 years but this is her first world championship and I don't think she's competed at a major since the European Champs in 2011. I don't think there was an Irish 64kg at the last worlds or even at the European Games in Baku last year. Been around ages, yet feels like she's come through from nowhere.

walshb

After both win world gold and Katie wins Rio gold I think a 64 kgs fight between the two would be a real seller here.

Dodge

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Absolutely. The strange thing is, though, that Harrington has been national champion for 6 years but this is her first world championship and I don't think she's competed at a major since the European Champs in 2011. I don't think there was an Irish 64kg at the last worlds or even at the European Games in Baku last year. Been around ages, yet feels like she's come through from nowhere.

Definitely none at either from Ireland. Claire Grace won bronze at Europeans in 2014 AT 69kg. We had nobody at 64kg there either

Joe_ Public

Dodge wrote: »

Definitely none at either from Ireland. Claire Grace won bronze at Europeans in 2014 AT 69kg. We had nobody at 64kg there either

She was beaten in the first round of the 2011 European Champs on a countback and that's the only major champs she ever appeared in. I don't follow it to be honest, but could be she's just a late developer or maybe she had work or study commitments. Incredible performance either way.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

After both win world gold and Katie wins Rio gold I think a 64 kgs fight between the two would be a real seller here.

It would be, assuming the IABA would actually bother to market it for a change, but I doubt either boxer would be into the idea.

walshb

Katie one up on all cards. Needs to improve her accuracy.

Joe_ Public

Can't believe the judging here, both rounds.

walshb

Level on 2 of the 3 judges cards and ahead on one! 2 rds to go.:o

Joe_ Public

Can only say: wtf.

walshb

Ahead on all cards. One to go. Looks a bit jaded!

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Can only say: wtf.

To what?

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

To what?

To all the scoring there. I didn't get it any round...but maybe I know nothing.

ciarriaithuaidh

Jeez the scoring was all over the place there. Thought the French girl was well better in round 3. All 3 gave it 10-9 to Taylor! Then round 4 Taylor was on top and she doesn't get it. Bizarre.

I don't think it's the worst thing for Katie, should serve as a jolt ahead of Rio and she needs to get fitter by the looks of it.

walshb

I am confused. Aftre three rds was it not 29/28 29/28 and 30/27 to Katie?

One judge had it 40-36 to Katie?

Close

Ok, two judges had it level after 4 and one had Katie a clear winner

All rds were close, but to me Katie did enough.

walshb

Her stamina cost here here. She fought tired!

Dodge

To be fair it was a close fight. I don't think anyone could say she won all 4 rounds there but one judge gave it to her

Joe_ Public

In fairness the 40-36 judge was drunk. Mossely clearly won the third round. And I thought she won the first as well, but Taylor clearly won the fourth so thought she was home and dry there.

Strazdas

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Jeez the scoring was all over the place there. Thought the French girl was well better in round 3. All 3 gave it 10-9 to Taylor! Then round 4 Taylor was on top and she doesn't get it. Bizarre.

I don't think it's the worst thing for Katie, should serve as a jolt ahead of Rio and she needs to get fitter by the looks of it.

I'm a bit baffled by the scoring : I thought they got the last three rounds wrong.

Yeah, and what's up with Katie's fitness? Why is she blowing hard in the middle of the fight?

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I thought she recovered pretty well in the fourth.

Agreed. But too many instances of her being ragged.

If I was ever picking weaknesses with Taylor it's cardio stamina and power. I have noticed that in many of her fights.

Joe_ Public

Strazdas wrote: »

I'm a bit baffled by the scoring : I thought they got the last three rounds wrong.

Yeah, and what's up with Katie's fitness? Why is she blowing hard in the middle of the fight?

I thought all four rounds were wrong...it's not the losing of the fight that rankles, its the bonkers scoring.

I dont know why her fitness would be an issue, if it is, but it was a tough fight against torres, for all she had a rest day, all take their toll at the end of the day.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

In fairness the 40-36 judge was drunk. Mossely clearly won the third round. And I thought she won the first as well, but Taylor clearly won the fourth so thought she was home and dry there.

40-36 was one of the scores?

If so, how the hell did Katie get a 10-8 rd?

JustTheOne

Why did her dad stop being her manager?

walshb

Dodge wrote: »

To be fair it was a close fight. I don't think anyone could say she won all 4 rounds there but one judge gave it to her

And seems he gave one rd a 10-8. The rds were close. All 4 rds to Taylor may be a bit of a stretch, but one could argue it.

Strazdas

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I thought all four rounds were wrong...it's not the losing of the fight that rankles, its the bonkers scoring.

I dont know why her fitness would be an issue, if it is, but it was a tough fight against torres, for all she had a rest day, all take their toll at the end of the day.

Indeed, really strange scoring throughout.

On the evidence of this year, Katie has gone backwards a little for reasons unknown. All is not lost for Rio though, she still has strong chances in this division.

walshb

The last rd for me was probabaly the easist to score. Taylor deserved that rd more than either deserved any of the other three, yet two judges gave it to the French girl!