Brendan Rodgers The New Celtic Manager

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

It's a pretty small sample size though right?

His record in Europe? 20 games for Liverpool I think.

Blatter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

His record in Europe? 20 games for Liverpool I think.

I would say the Europa League games of 12/13 would be a poor indicator unless it was taken seriously by the club that year? Whatever your own views on the competition were back then, it wouldn't have been taken at all seriously by pretty much all English clubs, particularly as there was no CL place for the winner.

LuckyLloyd

Blatter wrote: »

I would say the Europa League games of 12/13 would be a poor indicator unless it was taken seriously by the club that year? Whatever your own views on the competition were back then, it wouldn't have been taken at all seriously by pretty much all English clubs, particularly as there was no CL place for the winner.

Liverpool weren't in the running for anything else when they played Zenith in the knockout stages.

astonaidan

Dempsey wrote: »

Yet, he'll struggle to eclipse what Lennon achieved at Celtic

Id be fairly confident he will get them back into CL and do it with less money than Lennon.

Brendan Flowers

tayto lover wrote: »

He seems to have won feck all though.

Edit.

He got Swansea promoted.

How many trophies had Pep won when Barcelona hired him? Or Mauricio Pochettino when he was appointed Spurs manager?

Real "armchair" stuff to be basing someone's abilities purely on the number of honours listed on their Wikipedia page.

Safe enough decision from Brendan.

If he fails to win the league it's a seeming disaster but at 1/3 Celtic have more than a 1 in 4 chance of not winning it, still you'd expect them to do it really and convincingly too of course.

A Scottish Cup victory in addition to the league would please the supporters, Celtic haven't gotten to the final since winning it in 2012–13.

Getting to the group stages of the CL is the big aim, failure to do that isn't the end of the World though, disappointing yes but not overly surprising.

The thing is though under Rodger's reign he improved both Swansea and Liverpool, at Liverpool they than regressed but one can see how Celtic would be hopeful he can do something there in the coming season.

He has nothing to lose really unless he makes a total mess of it by failing to win the league next year which is heavily odds on not to happen.

I'll look forward to watching Celtic's CL qualifiers

Paully D

Good appointment for Celtic. Poor move for Rodgers.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

That's easy from a Gers fan Celtic are bigger than villa

Celtic have no real potential for improving themselves.Currently they're a minuscule club compared to Villa (regardless of their poor run ove rthe last few years) and it's not as if Villa are without history either.

A Dub in Glasgo

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Celtic have no real potential for improving themselves.Currently they're a minuscule club compared to Villa (regardless of their poor run ove rthe last few years) and it's not as if Villa are without history either.

What do you define as minuscule?

CSF

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

That's easy from a Gers fan Celtic are bigger than villa

Perhaps I'm biased (and to be honest in a different way so are you) but I wouldn't agree, it really depends on what metric you use. Celtic are better supported for sure but it is difficult to remain relevant outside that supporter base while playing in the Scottish League. It leaves you lower in the food chain losing players to clubs like Norwich, Nottingham Forest and Southampton (all clubs with even less support).

I think for it to change Celtic would have to become constant contenders for the knockout stages of the CL (think Shakhtar) or Villa would need to have a sustained run in the Championship.

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

His record in Europe? 20 games for Liverpool I think.

Whats that? Like 2 campaigns?

Doctor Jimbob

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Celtic have no real potential for improving themselves.Currently they're a minuscule club compared to Villa (regardless of their poor run ove rthe last few years) and it's not as if Villa are without history either.

Celtic were in the last 16 of the champions league just a few seasons ago, and beat Barcelona. What exactly have Villa done in recent years?

Minuscule in comparison? Behave.

Dirty Dingus McGee

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

What do you define as minuscule?

A club in a small league who cling to a good Euopean run once in a blue moon and who won't be ever able to attract high quality players to the club.

Celtic have very little potential as a club which is the opposite of any club in the english system.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Celtic were in the last 16 of the champions league just a few seasons ago, and beat Barcelona. What exactly have Villa done in recent years?

Minuscule in comparison? Behave.

Nothing but Villa have scope to grow Celtic don't.

Miniscule may be a slight exagerration but Celtic are only a big club because of their history not because of their present or future.

tayto lover

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

How many trophies had Pep won when Barcelona hired him? Or Mauricio Pochettino when he was appointed Spurs manager?

Real "armchair" stuff to be basing someone's abilities purely on the number of honours listed on their Wikipedia page.

Did they move downwards though? Don't think so.

Doctor Jimbob

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Nothing but Villa have scope to grow Celtic don't.

Miniscule may be a slight exagerration but Celtic are only a big club because of their history not because of their present or future.

I'm not so sure about that, Celtic have a chance to reach the Champions League every season, I'd consider that scope to grow.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that, Celtic have a chance to reach the Champions League every season, I'd consider that scope to grow.

6 games a season is not going to attract high quality and I'm pretty sure good players will go stale and get bored playing in the SPL.

That's basically all Celtic have to offer as a club.

Not sure if I was a player or manager with ambition I'd join a club for 6 games a season.

CSF

Celtic are set to become the mid-point in the United vs Liverpool tug of war on here aren't they?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Celtic have no real potential for improving themselves.Currently they're a minuscule club compared to Villa (regardless of their poor run ove rthe last few years) and it's not as if Villa are without history either.

Nonsense a minuscule club 😂 Yes Villa have history Celtics I believe eclipses it. But its opinions that's all

Dirty Dingus McGee

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Nonsense a minuscule club 😂 Yes Villa have history Celtics I believe eclipses it. But its opinions that's all

They aren't a huge club anymore though that's the point I'm making.

Nobody is denying their great history.

A Dub in Glasgo

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

A club in a small league who cling to a good Euopean run once in a blue moon and who won't be ever able to attract high quality players to the club.

Celtic have very little potential as a club which is the opposite of any club in the english system.

So most of the clubs who win their league championship outside of the big 4 in Europe are deemed to be minuscule compared to AV in your eyes. Another deluded EPL fanboy :rolleyes:

Doctor Jimbob

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

They aren't a huge club anymore though that's the point I'm making.

Nobody is denying their great history.

Nobody is saying they're as big as they used to be either, it's saying they're smaller than Villa that people are disagreeing with

Dirty Dingus McGee

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

So most of the clubs who win their league championship outside of the big 4 in Europe are deemed to be minuscule compared to AV in your eyes. Another deluded EPL fanboy :rolleyes:

I'm certainly not an EPL fanboy and I already said that miniscule may have been a slight exaggeration but Celtic right now are not as big a club as Aston Villa (or any other decent sized club in England) as Villa are a club with huge potential, Celtic have no real potential as they are stifled by being in a poor league.

Any player that goes to play for Celtic during the peak of their career is really lacking in ambition.It's not a big club anymore all they have is their history.When is the last time Celtic signed a genuinely top class player? Celtic are basically like Basel these days (and I'd say the Swiss league is a decent bit better than the SPL right now).

Doctor Jimbob

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I'm certainly not an EPL fanboy and I already said that miniscule may have been a slight exaggeration but Celtic right now are not as big a club as Aston Villa (or any other decent sized club in England) as Villa are a club with huge potential, Celtic have no real potential as they are stifled by being in a poor league.

Any player that goes to play for Celtic during the peak of their career is really lacking in ambition.It's not a big club anymore all they have is their history.When is the last time Celtic signed a genuinely top class player? Celtic are basically like Basel these days (and I'd say the Swiss league is a decent bit better than the SPL right now).

So players that go to Celtic, or any other title challenger in a smaller European league to compete for titles and a chance to play in the champions league show less ambition than those who go to the likes of Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland to pick up a fat paycheck and compete in the championship or lower reaches of the premiership?

I think you have it the wrong way around to be honest.

Edit: You say all Celtic have is their history, but all Villa have is a hypothetical future that may or may not happen.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

So players that go to Celtic, or any other title challenger in a smaller European league to compete for titles and a chance to play in the champions league show less ambition than those who go to the likes of Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland to pick up a fat paycheck and compete in the championship or lower reaches of the premiership?

I think you have it the wrong way around to be honest.

If you only want to push yourself as a player 6 times a season in the champions league group stages with team that have no chance of winning it then I would say you lack ambition.

If you try to test yourself at a higher standard week in week out then I would say that is being more ambitious.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

So players that go to Celtic, or any other title challenger in a smaller European league to compete for titles and a chance to play in the champions league show less ambition than those who go to the likes of Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland to pick up a fat paycheck and compete in the championship or lower reaches of the premiership?

I think you have it the wrong way around to be honest.

Edit: You say all Celtic have is their history, but all Villa have is a hypothetical future that may or may not happen.

I'd prefer hope for the future.

Villa have won the European cup also so they don't exactly lack history.

A Dub in Glasgo

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I'm certainly not an EPL fanboy and I already said that miniscule may have been a slight exaggeration but Celtic right now are not as big a club as Aston Villa (or any other decent sized club in England) as Villa are a club with huge potential, Celtic have no real potential as they are stifled by being in a poor league.

Any player that goes to play for Celtic during the peak of their career is really lacking in ambition.It's not a big club anymore all they have is their history.When is the last time Celtic signed a genuinely top class player? Celtic are basically like Basel these days (and I'd say the Swiss league is a decent bit better than the SPL right now).

Calling Celtic minuscule compared with AV does not equal a slight exaggeration, it equals delusional full stop

The same people as your good self ridiculed Larsson for staying at Celtic and then were salivating when he left and there was a very small possibility he went to a club in the EPL

Dirty Dingus McGee

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Calling Celtic minuscule compared with AV does not equal a slight exaggeration, it equals delusional full stop

The same people as your good self ridiculed Larsson for staying at Celtic and then were salivating when he left and there was a very small possibility he went to a club in the EPL

The SPL was a better league back then.

I certainly didn't dismiss Larsonn he was one of the best strikers of his generation and that Celtic team he played on had genuine top class players on it.They had a really good team when O'Neill was in charge and their UEFA cup final run was really enjoyable to watch as the best some quality teams long the way.Celtic are now are miles behind that level though.

I have absolutely nothing against Celtic it's just that most of the smaller leagues in Europe have become completely irrelevant in the last 10 years or so.Ajax aren't what they used to be either.

A Dub in Glasgo

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

.Ajax aren't what they used to be either.

and neither are the teams who dominate the EPL, what is your point? Did you know that every European Cup competition over the last 3 years has been won by a team from Spain, that is six trophies, what does that tell you about your EPL?

I remember the same attitude form the EPL fanboys when Larsson had the cheek to spend his peak 7 years at Celtic. The dismissiveness of the EPL fanboys is breathtaking

Dirty Dingus McGee

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

and neither are the teams who dominate the EPL, what is your point? Did you know that every European Cup competition over the last 3 years has been won by a team from Spain, that is six trophies, what does that tell you about your EPL?

I remember the same attitude form the EPL fanboys when Larsson had the cheek to spend his peak 7 years at Celtic. The dismissiveness of the EPL fanboys is breathtaking

But it's got nothing to do with being an EPL fanboy just the fact that the SPL like all of the smaller european leagues has fallen and won't ever return to it's former glory and the likes of Celtic and Ajax sadly won't return to their former glory either.

The teams in the EPL that have had a dip in recent years will bounce back though.

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

Whats that? Like 2 campaigns?

Two full campaigns yes, during which Liverpool looked particularly inept losing to teams that failed to progress past the next round each time.

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Two full campaigns yes, during which Liverpool looked particularly inept losing to teams that failed to progress past the next round each time.

Yeah but as I said, small sample size. Time will tell.

Dempsey

astonaidan wrote: »

Id be fairly confident he will get them back into CL and do it with less money than Lennon.

Not a chance. And definately not a chance of doing it on less money.

What makes you think Rodgers will a) have less money to spend b) make the last 16 twice?

As for anyone thinking villa is a bigger club, it no wonder people stay away from main threads when so much crap is spoken in the name of football analysis

astonaidan

Dempsey wrote: »

Not a chance. And definately not a chance of doing it on less money.

What makes you think Rodgers will a) have less money to spend b) make the last 16 twice?

As for anyone thinking villa is a bigger club, it no wonder people stay away from main threads when so much crap is spoken in the name of football analysis

Sorry I dont remember saying he would match Lennon getting to the last 16, I we saying Lennon didnt spend money or that Rogers will get as much as him cause both will be wrong

Dempsey

astonaidan wrote: »

Sorry I dont remember saying he would match Lennon getting to the last 16, I we saying Lennon didnt spend money or that Rogers will get as much as him cause both will be wrong

Maybe you should check what you posted so

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dempsey wrote: »

Not a chance. And definately not a chance of doing it on less money.

What makes you think Rodgers will a) have less money to spend b) make the last 16 twice?

As for anyone thinking villa is a bigger club, it no wonder people stay away from main threads when so much crap is spoken in the name of football analysis

2014-2015

Aston Villa Revenue = £148.8 million
Celtic Revenue = £51.08 million

Jelle1880

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

2014-2015

Aston Villa Revenue = £148.8 million
Celtic Revenue = £51.08 million

I'm probably as far from a Celtic fan as they come, but is that your reason for calling Villa a bigger team ?

I mean, history and trophy wise Celtic has them beat I guess, fanbase absolutely.

So is money the only factor ?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I'm probably as far from a Celtic fan as they come, but is that your reason for calling Villa a bigger team ?

I mean, history and trophy wise Celtic has them beat I guess, fanbase absolutely.

So is money the only factor ?

No but it's part of it though.

I already acknowledged Celtics great history earlier in the thread.But right now due to the way the game is every club in a major league is pretty much a bigger club than Celtic or Rangers.Nostalgia is the only thing that will attract a player to Celtic these days.Any serious players will want to play in one of the stronger leagues.

Celtic's best players have seen moving on to Southampton as an improvement in their career in the last few years which is hardly an indication of their status as a big club anymore. Thats the way the game has gone.

Dempsey

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

2014-2015

Aston Villa Revenue = £148.8 million
Celtic Revenue = £51.08 million

You havent a clue, do you?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dempsey wrote: »

You havent a clue, do you?

Why have Celtics best players decided to move to a mid sized premier league team if they are such a big club these days?

You'r a Celtic fans so your not going to view it objectively but do you honestly think genuine top quality players want to play for Celtic anymore?

Jelle1880

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

No but it's part of it though.

I already acknowledged Celtics great history earlier in the thread.But right now due to the way the game is every club in a major league is pretty much a bigger club than Celtic or Rangers.Nostalgia is the only thing that will attract a player to Celtic these days.Any serious players will want to play in one of the stronger leagues.

Celtic's best players have seen moving on to Southampton as an improvement in their career in the last few years which is hardly an indication of their status as a big club anymore. Thats the way the game has gone.

But you're talking about the league in general then. Of course the BPL is massive compared to the SPFL, even to pretty much every other league out there.

But when you're talking about individual clubs all Villa can offer is more money, due to where they play. Celtic can't compare with that, not many clubs outside of England can but that doesn't make a club big imo. But they have other things players can be interested in: European football, a big ground, guaranteed trophy wins,...

Take Leicester for example. Won the league, get ****loads of money for it (probably the same amount that Celtic would need to qualify for the Champions League group stages 10 seasons in a row for, and with a lot of wins too). But are they a bigger club ? Really ?

Money isn't the end of it all, to determine what a big club is there are plenty of other factors that come into play.

edit: Genuine top quality players sure as hell wouldn't play for Villa either, just saying

Dempsey

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Why have Celtics best players decided to move to a mid sized premier league team if they are such a big club these days?

You'r a Celtic fans so your not going to view it objectively but do you honestly think genuine top quality players want to play for Celtic anymore?

That doesnt explain what you said. Does it? Deflection isnt going to work either.

Im a more objective football fan than you'll ever meet, doesnt mean ill listen to horse ****e and entertain it for longer than it should.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Jelle1880 wrote: »

But you're talking about the league in general then. Of course the BPL is massive compared to the SPFL, even to pretty much every other league out there.

But when you're talking about individual clubs all Villa can offer is more money, due to where they play. Celtic can't compare with that, not many clubs outside of England can but that doesn't make a club big imo. But they have other things players can be interested in: European football, a big ground, guaranteed trophy wins,...

Take Leicester for example. Won the league, get ****loads of money for it (probably the same amount that Celtic would need to qualify for the Champions League group stages 10 seasons in a row for, and with a lot of wins too). But are they a bigger club ? Really ?

Money isn't the end of it all, to determine what a big club is there are plenty of other factors that come into play.

edit: Genuine top quality players sure as hell wouldn't play for Villa either, just saying

What makes the likes of Villa a big club is that they can play in a top quality league and they can offer players a way of testing themselves and improving their career.

I don't think players really care anymore about the history of a club unless they play in a big league.

Celtic are a big name with history but that's all they and other similar clubs like Ajax have anymore unfortunately.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dempsey wrote: »

That doesnt explain what you said. Does it? Deflection isnt going to work either.

Im a more objective football fan than you'll ever meet, doesnt mean ill listen to horse ****e and entertain it for longer than it should.

It does explain what I said.Why are Celtics best players seeing Southampton as an improvement if it's such a big club these days.It can't be considered a big club anymore if a mid sized English team are considered a better place for players to play.

I believe that Celtics biggest transfer paid was £6 million for Chris Sutton back in 2000 .That's hardly the sign of a big club anymore.No serious player would leave a team in one of the big European leagues to join them anymore either.

Doctor Jimbob

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

What makes the likes of Villa a big club is that they can play in a top quality league and they can offer players a way of testing themselves and improving their career.

I don't think players don't really care anymore about the history of a club unless they play in a big league.

Celtic are a big name with history but that's all they and other similar clubs like Ajax have anymore unfortunately.

Doesn't get much higher quality than the champions league. When's the last time Villa played in that again? They're currently in the championship as well, hardy the pinnacle of world football. You're also acting as if players can't improve themselves at Celtic and other big clubs in smaller leagues - I'd argue that playing in the champions league and competing regularly for trophies can certainly improve a player.

You're jumping around in your posts between comparing Celtic with Villa, and comparing Celtic with the premiership as a whole. The fact that Celtic players went to Southampton can't be used as evidence that Villa are a bigger club. If you want to use it as evidence Southampton are a bigger club, you might have a more valid point, although arguments could be made against that as well.

Players might not care much about a club's history, but there are plenty of players who would rather spend at least a few seasons actually winning things and competing in European competitions than jump on the English relegation roundabout with clubs like Villa for a few extra pounds.

astonaidan

Dempsey wrote: »

Maybe you should check what you posted so

Uh maybe you should check what I posted, or continue putting words in my mouth what evers cool for you :rolleyes:

Doctor Jimbob

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

It does explain what I said.Why are Celtics best players seeing Southampton as an improvement if it's such a big club these days.It can't be considered a big club anymore if a mid sized English team are considered a better place for players to play.

I believe that Celtics biggest transfer paid was £6 million for Chris Sutton back in 2000 .That's hardly the sign of a big club anymore.No serious player would leave a team in one of the big European leagues to join them anymore either.

If the only thing that defined a football club was transfer fees, you'd have an English club winning, or at least reaching the final the Champions league nearly every year. Instead, most of them flop in the early knockout stages. Atletico madrid are in the second CL final in 3 years, despite having the budget of a mid-table premiership club. Sevilla have a budget roughly comparable to the likes of Villa and are after destroying Liverpool in the Europa league final.

Dempsey

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

It does explain what I said.Why are Celtics best players seeing Southampton as an improvement if it's such a big club these days.It can't be considered a big club anymore if a mid sized English team are considered a better place for players to play.

I believe that Celtics biggest transfer paid was £6 million for Chris Sutton back in 2000 .That's hardly the sign of a big club anymore.No serious player would leave a team in one of the big European leagues to join them anymore either.

It does explain you and you're an idiot.

The transfer fee paid for Sutton doesnt mean anything. Please explain why it should

I find it embarrassing that you think you know anything about football tbh

astonaidan

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Doesn't get much higher quality than the champions league. When's the last time Villa played in that again? They're currently in the championship as well, hardy the pinnacle of world football. You're also acting as if players can't improve themselves at Celtic and other big clubs in smaller leagues - I'd argue that playing in the champions league and competing regularly for trophies can certainly improve a player.

You're jumping around in your posts between comparing Celtic with Villa, and comparing Celtic with the premiership as a whole. The fact that Celtic players went to Southampton can't be used as evidence that Villa are a bigger club. If you want to use it as evidence Southampton are a bigger club, you might have a more valid point, although arguments could be made against that as well.

Players might not care much about a club's history, but there are plenty of players who would rather spend at least a few seasons actually winning things and competing in European competitions than jump on the English relegation roundabout with clubs like Villa for a few extra pounds.

Well when Petrov was youre star he moved to Villa, so that would be a apt comparison.
Plenty of players wouldnt tbh, if they were given the chance to play for Sunderland or Celtic 95% would pick Sunderland.
Celtic really need Rangers back imo, it will push the league on again and give it some spot light. It has been unwatchable for a few seasons
Celtic in the foreseeable future wont even be as big a club as it was in the MON era. They are right now a feeder club, any player that does good will move south to a small mid table team in England

Doctor Jimbob

astonaidan wrote: »

Well when Petrov was youre star he moved to Villa, so that would be a apt comparison.
Plenty of players wouldnt tbh, if they were given the chance to play for Sunderland or Celtic 95% would pick Sunderland.
Celtic really need Rangers back imo, it will push the league on again and give it some spot light. It has been unwatchable for a few seasons
Celtic in the foreseeable future wont even be as big a club as it was in the MON era. They are right now a feeder club, any player that does good will move south to a small mid table team in England

He did, after spending a good few years at Celtic. I'm not sure that in itself makes Villa a bigger club though. Maybe he hoped to use Villa as a stepping stone to a bigger premiership club. Maybe he wanted a bit of extra cash. Maybe he was fed up living in Scotland. It's hard to tell unless you ask him.
Plenty wouldn't, I know. I think 95% might be a bit excessive though.
I won't go down the Rangers rabbit hole as that;s likely to throw up a few more arguments on here :pac:
I'm confused by your last argument. Villa aren't a small mid table club, they're a championship club that have been flirting with relegation for a while now.