Car park wins. Car ban on Bachelors Walk reversed. Bikes on Benburb st too.

Carawaystick

lxflyer wrote: »

Just to put this into context - this is the plan in terms of bus routes to operate along the Quays between Capel Street Bridge and O'Connell Bridge:

Existing:
25, 25a, 25b, 26, 37, 39, 39a, 66, 66a, 66b, 67, 70, 90, 145,151

Additional:
9, 13, 16, 27, 40, 56a, 77a, 65, 65b, 68, 68a, 69, 122, 123

Removed:
83, 83a

Of those additional routes, at least eight of them are what would be termed high frequency routes.

And that's just DB routes,
add in coaches, both scheduled and unscheduled on top of this.

magicbastarder

stupid question, but if the buses are operating between capel street bridge and o'connell bridge, how do they get to capel street bridge? via parliament street or capel street?

cgcsb

magicbastarder wrote: »

stupid question, but if the buses are operating between capel street bridge and o'connell bridge, how do they get to capel street bridge? via parliament street or capel street?

basically buses that currently use George's st and turn right towards College Green will have to instead turn left towards Christchurch and then turn right onto Parliament st and continue via the quays.

LXFlyer

The DCC transport committee accepted the new route for the Liffey Cycleway this afternoon, rejecting a last minute proposal from irishcycle.com (which would push buses onto Benburb St and for them to access the Quays by making a right/left turn at Queen St).

Bus users thankfully do seem to be the main winners in this - buses will continue to use the bus lanes on the Quays without any of the daft diversions that were planned.

LXFlyer

The final draft of the City Centre Transport Study can be obtained here (thanks to irishcycle.com):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-qTnMoHhp0lWTNvUER2ZmwyMlA3Z2xpcDVkN1VseURMTUk0/view?usp=sharing

Unfortunately it does not include any detailed drawings for city centre streets and how everything might fit.

Good article on it on irishcycle.com:
http://irishcycle.com/2016/05/25/cars-to-be-allowed-on-quays-up-to-oconnell-street/

LXFlyer

Deedsie wrote: »

Ya just a daft cycle route that will be completely ignored as the cyclists, as is their right, will continue to use the bus lane along the quays. It's a shame but I suppose the council are in a tough position. Public transport should be the priority.

What the cyclists choose to do is up to them, but as a bus user I'm relieved that the proposals that would have had buses and coaches (which carry far more passengers than any other mode) making difficult right/left turns at signalled junctions which would inevitably involved increased journey times, rather than taking the current direct fully prioritised route have been rejected.

beauf

Have to say I never found cycling into town on the north side quays that much of a problem.

The southside quays is much busier, faster, and nastier pinch points. The road surface is much worse too.

LXFlyer

beauf wrote: »

Have to say I never found cycling into town on the north side quays that much of a problem.

The southside quays is much busier, faster, and nastier pinch points. The road surface is much worse too.

I think the cycle route is an important addition to the city, but in much the same way as the plans for College Green are doing, it makes no sense to provide these facilities at a cost of delaying a much greater number of bus passengers.

If there were appropriate high capacity and high frequency rail alternatives then we would have a different situation, but we don't. As such plans are being prepared that just don't seem to acknowledge the importance the bus network plays in keeping this city moving.

MJohnston

Its desperate that the same city council that created the Grand Canal cycle path from Grand Canal Street, a great wee bit of cycling infrastructure that is clear, simple, safe, and spacious, can't even approach replicating that elsewhere. Maybe they just accidentally stumbled into that one.

aliveandkicking

cgcsb wrote: »

Has anybody discovered any more detail on the bachelor's walk proposal? it'll be interesting if there is any truth in the double bus lane proposal and how that could possibly work.

No mention of double bus lane on Bachelors Walk in the relevant section of the new DCC document (taken from irishcycle.com).

10.2.7 The North Quays – Bachelors Walk / Eden Quay / Custom House Quay

The Quays currently form a major traffic artery through the central city area for eastbound and westbound traffic movements. Because the primary function of the Quays is to facilitate vehicular traffic movement, it causes a high degree of severance for north-south pedestrian movement. The busiest pedestrian link in the city is the link from O’Connell Street to Westmoreland Street, crossing Bachelors Walk and Aston Quay. The vehicular traffic flow along Bachelors Walk is a significant barrier to pedestrian flow on this link, with large volumes of pedestrians frequently crowding, often in an unsafe manner, on either footpath, awaiting the pedestrian signal phase.

From a public transport perspective, Bachelors Walk is a frequent source of delay to bus services. Buses turning southwards towards D’Olier Street have to leave the bus lane on the north side of the street and traverse two lanes of general traffic, frequently congested, to go southwards. In addition, the need to cater for general traffic means that footpath widths and bus stopping arrangements along this section are significantly below the optimal provision. Notwithstanding its current traffic focus, Bachelors Walk is a very prominent location in the city centre. Its position, directly adjacent to O’Connell Street means it forms an integral part of the urban framework of the city centre.
The major construction elements of Luas Cross City, and the commencement of passenger services at the end of 2017, will require significant changes to junction arrangements in the City Centre including at O’Connell Street. In addition, the vehicular capacity at various junctions along the Luas Cross City corridor, particularly on either side of O’Connell Bridge, will be significantly reduced in order to cater for the Luas service.

Proposals are also now in place to develop the Liffey Cycle Route, connecting from Heuston Station in the west to the Point in the east. As it is proposed to provide this as a segregated two-way cycle track along the entire length of the river in the City Centre, this will impact upon the current road layout on Bachelors Walk, requiring a reallocation of road space.

It is proposed that left turning general traffic will be allowed to access Bachelors Walk as far as O’Connell Bridge. This will facilitate access to car parks and deliveries into the O’Connell Street, Henry Street and Abbey Street areas. It is also intended to remove general vehicular traffic from Eden Quay at O’Connell Bridge and to reconfigure Eden Quay as far as Marlborough Street as a public transport, cycling and pedestrian only link. Eden Quay is likely to consist of two eastbound bus lanes (one for buses stopping) on the north side of the road and a taxi rank on the river side. The right turn from Bachelors Walk onto O’Connell Bridge will be removed. This will remove through traffic from the area, and encourage traffic onto the orbital routes for access to the city centre. It will also have the ancillary effect of reducing traffic on Bachelors Walk, with only cars wishing to turn left onto O’Connell Street remaining on this section. Buses will be able to make right turns at the recently constructed Rosie Hackett Bridge.

The removal of significant levels of through general traffic from sections of the north quays, together with corresponding changes on the south quays, set out below, will allow a more integrated central city area to develop, with a greater level of connection between areas north and south of the river.

As you pointed out yourself there physically isn't the space for a double bus lane, a left turning general traffic lane, a two way Liffey cycle route and two footpaths on Bachelors Walk. The interesting bit for me that hasn't been picked up in the media as of yet is making Eden Quay public transport only. This will massively reduce the amount of private traffic on Bachelors Walk and the north quays in general.

beauf

lxflyer wrote: »

I think the cycle route is an important addition to the city, but in much the same way as the plans for College Green are doing, it makes no sense to provide these facilities at a cost of delaying a much greater number of bus passengers.

If there were appropriate high capacity and high frequency rail alternatives then we would have a different situation, but we don't. As such plans are being prepared that just don't seem to acknowledge the importance the bus network plays in keeping this city moving.

My point was as a cyclist I didn't feel the need for these lanes on the northside quays. The southside quays needs it much more. I assume most experienced cyclists would be the the same. Nice but not a need to have, on the northside.

I assume these lanes are too encourage new people to cycling, who would otherwise be out off by the current layout. So its mainly an issue of perception for new cyclists. Not that I'm against dedicated facilities, they have their place. But the design of these layouts seems to be done by people who don't cycle. This the design priorities all seems a bit skewed.

I have no problem with buses getting priority. In my experience, buses are mainly held up by other buses stopping at stops. They may get help up cyclists a little bit, but when cycling (at busy times) you generally overtake buses, even if they over take the cyclist. The cyclist will almost always end up passing them again as the bus gets stopped so often. When its not busy there's room for both to pass each other.

Just my 2 cents

LXFlyer

I wasn't aiming that at you, rather the over zealous plans that some had to shunt the buses into Benburb St leading to a right/left turn that would have been impossible to provide effective bus priority - I'm all for providing cycle lanes, but not in such a way that would inevitably lead to longer journey times for a far greater number of public transport users.

beauf

While cycling will never be for everyone. At some point people driving 60 mins, or taking a bus for 40 mins when it takes 20 mins to cycle that same journey has to be considered more seriously. Also the mix use of taking a bus, then completing the journey on a bicycle. Also when raining the road traffic gets slower and cycling stays the same time. Far more consistent.

cgcsb

aliveandkicking wrote: »

No mention of double bus lane on Bachelors Walk in the relevant section of the new DCC document (taken from irishcycle.com).




As you pointed out yourself there physically isn't the space for a double bus lane, a left turning general traffic lane, a two way Liffey cycle route and two footpaths on Bachelors Walk. The interesting bit for me that hasn't been picked up in the media as of yet is making Eden Quay public transport only. This will massively reduce the amount of private traffic on Bachelors Walk and the north quays in general.

It's a strange one alright. It's either a mistake or secretly the cycle lane has been binned altogether to accommodate the multi-story lobby. In the case of the later we should probably just ban public consultations altogether because they cost a lot of public money and are flatly ignored if they conflict with vested interest anyway.

trellheim

Its desperate that the same city council that created the Grand Canal cycle path from Grand Canal Street, a great wee bit of cycling infrastructure that is clear, simple, safe, and spacious, can't even approach replicating that elsewhere. Maybe they just accidentally stumbled into that one.

Plenty of wide space there to create that infrastructure

Different space entirely here, with a host of competing interests, no best solution possible and likely a "least worst" option which will annoy everyone, will result in being selected.

For me it is about dealing with the entire area properly

Devilman40k

aliveandkicking wrote: »

No mention of double bus lane on Bachelors Walk in the relevant section of the new DCC document (taken from irishcycle.com).




.

No mention in section 10.2.7. However, in figure 10.1 under point 7(Bachelors Walk) it states "Additional bus lane and bus stops"

Spanish Eyes

Bachelor's Walk at the moment is a total disaster. So many buses and coaches all vying for parking or bus stops all along that stretch. Mayhem.

So any improvement has to be a good thing.

I am very disappointed that private cars will be allowed to turn left into O'Connell Street. The Arnotts car park should be cpo'd and used as a bike park and taxi park or something useful like that. But it won't ever be. I think the traffic flow should be reversed on Liffey Street and Abbey Street allowing cars to access O'Connell Street that way. Just a suggestion that may not work practically either, I dunno.

Anyway I like the idea of Eden Quay being PT only, and no Right turn to O'Connell Bridge, it might help reduce SOME of the car traffic on BW.

Just looking at the map here

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3473228,-6.260188,3a,90y,55.16h,91.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szlLp75nrEk0aVYfRxKgrXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I suppose the cars will have to filter left in front of the buslane to make the turn. That's brilliant isn't it? Unless someone has another solution at the junction!

aliveandkicking

Devilman40k wrote: »

No mention in section 10.2.7. However, in figure 10.1 under point 7(Bachelors Walk) it states "Additional bus lane and bus stops"

Thanks for that. I missed it. Seems strange / sneaky that the only mention of an additional bus lane is in the diagram of street specific measures yet they make no mention of it in the main body of text relating to that section of the plan.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3473228,-6.260188,3a,75y,250.8h,82.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szlLp75nrEk0aVYfRxKgrXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

The only possible way they could get an additional bus lane in, a general traffic lane and the liffey cycle route in is to remove the footpath altogether at the Liffey wall and just have the boardwalk as the footpath. There is simply no other way to fit it all in.

cgcsb

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Bachelor's Walk at the moment is a total disaster. So many buses and coaches all vying for parking or bus stops all along that stretch. Mayhem.

So any improvement has to be a good thing.

I am very disappointed that private cars will be allowed to turn left into O'Connell Street. The Arnotts car park should be cpo'd and used as a bike park and taxi park or something useful like that. But it won't ever be. I think the traffic flow should be reversed on Liffey Street and Abbey Street allowing cars to access O'Connell Street that way. Just a suggestion that may not work practically either, I dunno.

Anyway I like the idea of Eden Quay being PT only, and no Right turn to O'Connell Bridge, it might help reduce SOME of the car traffic on BW.

Just looking at the map here

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3473228,-6.260188,3a,90y,55.16h,91.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szlLp75nrEk0aVYfRxKgrXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I suppose the cars will have to filter left in front of the buslane to make the turn. That's brilliant isn't it? Unless someone has another solution at the junction!

That's what I said yesterday, you'll have cars on the right all turning left and buses on the left turning every way. Lord knows where the cyclists will be. Either way, a total mess.

cgcsb

aliveandkicking wrote: »

The only possible way they could get an additional bus lane in, a general traffic lane and the liffey cycle route in is to remove the footpath altogether at the Liffey wall and just have the boardwalk as the footpath. There is simply no other way to fit it all in.

Even then it'd be tight and an overall worsening of the pedestrian environment.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

That's what I said yesterday, you'll have cars on the right all turning left and buses on the left turning every way. Lord knows where the cyclists will be. Either way, a total mess.

As I posted already, there will have to be a bus gate.

In other words the car traffic gets held further back at a retreated stop line in the outside lane while buses get priority to go left, straight on and right.

Then cars get a separate green light.

Certainly complicated but that's the only way it could work.

As I've already posted there will have to be a second bus lane to cope with a doubling of the number of buses on that section of road. How all of this will physically fit I don't know, but without the second bus lane, the bus service will grind to a halt.

cgcsb

lxflyer wrote: »

As I posted already, there will have to be a bus gate.

In other words the car traffic gets held further back at a retreated stop line while buses get priority to go left, straight on and right.

Then cars get a separate green light.

Certainly complicated but that's the only way it could work.

As I've already posted there will have to be a second bus lane to cope with a doubling of the number of buses on that section of road. How all of this will physically fit I don't know, but without the second bus lane, the bus service will grind to a halt.

Agreed, that's probably the only way, I've seen this work in Austria. My problem is, when do Dublin drivers ever obey stop lines/yellow boxes, orange lights etc.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

Agreed, that's probably the only way, I've seen this work in Austria. My problem is, when do Dublin drivers ever obey stop lines/yellow boxes, orange lights etc.

Agreed - either way this is a recipe for chaos.

I'm still baffled as to how all of this was not an integral part of the LUAS BXD route planning process.

Either way all of this is really dependent upon what comes out of the College Green consultation as that's what's driving the need for a second bus lane.

Spanish Eyes

Coach parking on BW is causing a lot of problems too. Even though they don't actually park up there, it takes an age for passengers to alight and get their luggage, leaving little room for DB.

I see in the presentation that coach parks are being mooted. But no detail as to where they will be sited, nor any detail as to whether set down for coaches will be removed from the Quays.

cgcsb

Indeed all these documents introduce luas BXD as the driving force behind the need for change. Of course there is need for change regardless of BXD, but if it is being driven by the luas extension surely that should've been picked up in the environmental impact statement and planned for accordingly. We now have a clueless City council scrambling to force everything through bachelor's walk while obeying strict instructions from their multi-storey masters. A true disaster.

Spanish Eyes

cgcsb wrote: »

Indeed all these documents introduce luas BXD as the driving force behind the need for change. Of course there is need for change regardless of BXD, but if it is being driven by the luas extension surely that should've been picked up in the environmental impact statement and planned for accordingly. We now have a clueless City council scrambling to force everything through bachelor's walk while obeying strict instructions from their multi-storey masters. A true disaster.

This has really annoyed me.

In an earlier post I made the suggestion that traffic flow be reversed on Liffey and Abbey Streets allowing car access to O'Connell Street and THAT car park.

I know the Luas may make the turn for cars problematic, but a LUAS Gate as suggested by you and LXflier for the BW issue, is not impossible either.

trellheim

I've read the transport study

Few points I see :

1) Cycling and buses especially along the quays , and the College Green plaza - very little detail what risk measures . Do they plan a cycle lane east west on the plaza

2) Parliament St - just don't see it being able to handle the volume ... very narrow turn in to a single lane . Also huge blocking back push on Capel St due to the contra-flow bus lane on the bridge , Capel st is jammed all day as it is mostly as its a major route for service vehicles in the city

3) Making Georges quay bus only - this is just silly. I don't drive that often, I cycle/walk.bus/LUAS mostly to work but even still I use this regularly .... with this blocked off how are you supposed to drive to Heuston from Pearse St ? ( firmly against car commuting here but this is just ridiculous )

Many actual things that need to happen to make it all work are long-fingered. You may well say - so what - but if we're changing everything, now's the time to fix it all or put proper long term solutions in.

MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

3) Making Georges quay bus only - this is just silly. I don't drive that often, I cycle/walk.bus/LUAS mostly to work but even still I use this regularly .... with this blocked off how are you supposed to drive to Heuston from Pearse St ? ( firmly against car commuting here but this is just ridiculous )

George's Quay wouldn't affect Heuston to Pearse - but giving you the benefit of the doubt that you meant Pearse to Heuston:



Yes, it's quite a detour around the city centre compared to using the quays, but that's kind of the point!

trellheim

and clogging a bunch of other major transport arteries while I do it ! Thank you - that was kind of my point in the other direction

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

and clogging a bunch of other major transport arteries while I do it ! Thank you - that was kind of my point in the other direction

The whole point is to try and facilitate car park access but discourage through traffic through the city centre.

It will mean other arteries becoming far busier but that may have to be a price to be paid given that there will only be one car lane on the Quays on either side of the river.

MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

and clogging a bunch of other major transport arteries while I do it ! Thank you - that was kind of my point in the other direction

But here's the thing. George's Quay is an absolute tragedy of traffic right now, so much car traffic holding up the Public transport in the area (I've no doubt that private cars will be constantly blocking the Luas junctions that'll be going through there soon, as they do with pretty much every busy car-Luas junction in the city). Taking the alternate route I screenshotted above is sometimes faster that the quays because of this.

You can't increase road capacity (which is well known to do basically nothing to reduce congestion anyway), can't build tunnels, can't build more bridges, etc. So what do you do?

There's only one real option, which is to improve the quality of transit for Public transport, and improve that to a point at which it becomes a better alternative to using your car.

In nearly every city centre commute case, there isn't any way to make things better for private cars (short of the ridiculous suggestion someone had of literally knocking down lots of city centre buildings for new roads), and the focus has to be on making things better for public transport.

And in Dublin, the unfortunate truth (if you're a car commuter that is), is that PT is bus-centric, and thus, improvements to it are always going to make life worse for private cars.

cgcsb

trellheim wrote: »

I've read the transport study

Few points I see :

1) Cycling and buses especially along the quays , and the College Green plaza - very little detail what risk measures . Do they plan a cycle lane east west on the plaza

2) Parliament St - just don't see it being able to handle the volume ... very narrow turn in to a single lane . Also huge blocking back push on Capel St due to the contra-flow bus lane on the bridge , Capel st is jammed all day as it is mostly as its a major route for service vehicles in the city

3) Making Georges quay bus only - this is just silly. I don't drive that often, I cycle/walk.bus/LUAS mostly to work but even still I use this regularly .... with this blocked off how are you supposed to drive to Heuston from Pearse St ? ( firmly against car commuting here but this is just ridiculous )

Many actual things that need to happen to make it all work are long-fingered. You may well say - so what - but if we're changing everything, now's the time to fix it all or put proper long term solutions in.

1) yes that was implied by the drawings there'll be east-west cycling through CG
2) I agree, don't see it working especially if there is a bus stop on Parliament St.
3)Doesn't matter, driving through the central area is to be discouraged.

MJohnston

lxflyer wrote: »

The whole point is to try and facilitate car park access but discourage through traffic through the city centre.

It will mean other arteries becoming far busier but that may have to be a price to be paid given that there will only be one car lane on the Quays on either side of the river.

On this, I wonder should DCC have looked to compromise by facilitating car park access (ie. allowing private car traffic on certain streets) only at particular times of the day - I'm thinking outside of 7am-10am/4pm-7pm Mon-Fri, unrestricted on weekends.

trellheim

But as I said and emphasised - I am not a regular driver ! once or twice a month through the city and still I end up on Georges quay I want more PT

Georges quay is silly . I was thinking Tara St and a left turn .. but what about all the hordes who cross Memorial bridge and then along the quays

just dont see it ... and then they allow cars along Bachelors walk

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

But as I said and emphasised - I am not a regular driver ! once or twice a month through the city and still I end up on Georges quay I want more PT

Georges quay is silly . I was thinking Tara St and a left turn .. but what about all the hordes who cross Memorial bridge and then along the quays

just dont see it ... and then they allow cars along Bachelors walk

Those cars off Memorial Bridge are going to have take another route.

With only one traffic lane on Aston Quay they won't physically fit.

aliveandkicking

trellheim wrote: »

I've read the transport study

Few points I see :

1) Cycling and buses especially along the quays , and the College Green plaza - very little detail what risk measures . Do they plan a cycle lane east west on the plaza

2) Parliament St - just don't see it being able to handle the volume ... very narrow turn in to a single lane . Also huge blocking back push on Capel St due to the contra-flow bus lane on the bridge , Capel st is jammed all day as it is mostly as its a major route for service vehicles in the city

3) Making Georges quay bus only - this is just silly. I don't drive that often, I cycle/walk.bus/LUAS mostly to work but even still I use this regularly .... with this blocked off how are you supposed to drive to Heuston from Pearse St ? ( firmly against car commuting here but this is just ridiculous )

Many actual things that need to happen to make it all work are long-fingered. You may well say - so what - but if we're changing everything, now's the time to fix it all or put proper long term solutions in.

1. The plaza hasn't been designed yet but as far as I am aware they do plan an east west cycle path through it.

2. Agree with your observations on Parliament St and Capel St. Parliament St will need serious traffic light priority measures just to keep clear which will in turn take green time away from both north and south quays. Capel St will be a disaster.

3. They're not making Georges Quay bus only. They are putting in an additional bus lane but will retain a single general traffic lane.

Carawaystick

I presume the right turn off Grattan/Capel st bridge southbound will go?

aliveandkicking

Carawaystick wrote: »

I presume the right turn off Grattan/Capel st bridge southbound will go?

No it's the only way private traffic will be able to go. Straight on onto Parliament will be public transport only so private traffic will have to turn right onto Essex Quay.

trellheim

but doesn't that create a conflict and a big one with lots of buses having to turn right onto the bachelors walk vs southbound Capel St traffic ? its already a huge wait on Capel St already , frequently back to the cinemas on Parnell St .

Essentially here you are just creating a mini O-Connell Bridge - and remember Parliament st has a ton of pubs clubs and restaurants either on it or just off and there's frequently peoples just wandering across a la temple bar .

Stupid Suggestion : bus tunnel under the proposed plaza goes under at the Westin and comes up dame st

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

but doesn't that create a conflict and a big one with lots of buses having to turn right onto the bachelors walk vs southbound Capel St traffic ? its already a huge wait on Capel St already , frequently back to the cinemas on Parnell St .

Essentially here you are just creating a mini O-Connell Bridge - and remember Parliament st has a ton of pubs clubs and restaurants either on it or just off and there's frequently peoples just wandering across a la temple bar .

Stupid Suggestion : bus tunnel under the proposed plaza goes under at the Westin and comes up dame st

This is the whole stupidity of not allowing buses access the south side of College Green.

Spanish Eyes

This is the only way now, the Hoverbus!

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/weird-news/amazing-hoverbus-future-carries-1200-8036770

Carawaystick

trellheim wrote: »

but doesn't that create a conflict and a big one with lots of buses having to turn right onto the bachelors walk vs southbound Capel St traffic ? its already a huge wait on Capel St already , frequently back to the cinemas on Parnell St .

Reverse the direction of traffic on the lower section of Capel st?

Seaswimmer

Apologies if this has been covered but what are the plans for north to south buses that use Dolier Street/College Green currently.

16, 46a, 145 to name but a few??

LXFlyer

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Apologies if this has been covered but what are the plans for north to south buses that use Dolier Street/College Green currently.

16, 46a, 145 to name but a few??

This will tell you everything you need to know.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Major-changes-proposed-to-routes-using-College-Green-bus-corridor/

LXFlyer

Dublin Bus have put their own submission on the plans on their website which raises some of the concerns expressed here:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Dublin-Bus-submission-to-the-College-Green-Public-Consultation/

MJohnston

lxflyer wrote: »

Dublin Bus have put their own submission on the plans on their website which raises some of the concerns expressed here:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Dublin-Bus-submission-to-the-College-Green-Public-Consultation/

Well, technically this thread is just about the Quays/Liffey Cycle Path plans, not College Green, but it's hard to take them all separately really.

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

Well, technically this thread is just about the Quays/Liffey Cycle Path plans, not College Green, but it's hard to take them all separately really.

That's precisely the point!

The point of this thread was an article the publication of the updated City Centre Traffic Study.

It's impossible to look at any of these schemes in isolation - they need to be looked at as a whole.

Most of the issues arising on the Quays arise from the diversion of buses from College Green.

MJohnston

Which is why it's maddening that DCC are backing away from their Quays plans when they're still (publicly) full steam ahead on the College Green Plaza. Knowing DCC they'll half-scrap everything, and leave us with a half-arsed mish mash that helps no-one.

Spanish Eyes

lxflyer wrote: »

That's precisely the point!

The point of this thread was an article the publication of the updated City Centre Traffic Study.

It's impossible to look at any of these schemes in isolation - they need to be looked at as a whole.

Most of the issues arising on the Quays arise from the diversion of buses from College Green.

Yes of course it is supposed to be a "total" project. But at the last minute cars were suddenly back on Bachelor's Walk having been banned in the original plan, and bikes were diverted to Benburb Street.

The only happy thought I have at the moment, is that buses are not being funnelled down Benburb Street. Mad idea that. But now gone so that's progress at least.

As for the rest of it, as someone else said, a mish mash of this and that may be the end result.

I just dunno anymore. I suppose it will have to be built and they will come or something! At least when it's done we will be able to see whether it works or not. Probably too late then.

Anyway, the fact that something is being done is positive. Whether the end result works or not, remains to be seen.

trellheim

Good point made in DB submission that the quays and Parliament St now become a real critical failure point - one breakdown/accident will really snarl stuff up

the study goes on to point out as we are saying here that doing this in isolation is silly - it needs to be a whole city centre approach for all modes, the plaza cannot be a standalone thing