Aerial Direction for Saorview

WheatenBriar

Yeah either the power supply unit is gone or its not plugged in
Plugging it in or replacing it is worth doing
Reception there is from kilkeel alright,a direct unobstructed sea path

Carawaystick

droidman123 wrote: »

Is it possible to get any UK freeview stations without a dish? Is it possible to get them with just a box and an aerial?

Freeview is DTT like saorview, you can't get it with a dish at all.
You can get it in Arklow, aerial - amp - tv

WheatenBriar

Carawaystick wrote: »

Freeview is DTT like saorview, you can't get it with a dish at all.
You can get it in Arklow, aerial - amp - tv

Correct
Its wrong to say you have to be on high ground
Anyone who had useable UK analogue which is an awful lot of areas,in the east can get freeview

Carawaystick

Carawaystick wrote: »

Freeview is DTT like saorview, you can't get it with a dish at all.
You can get it in Arklow, aerial - amp - tv

What is the "amp" that i need? Is it an amplifier in the aerial?

The Cush

The question is how will the DTT replan and clearance of the 700MHz band affect overspill of Freeview along the east coast and NI in the next few years?

The plan for the main sites was included in a press release from the WEDDIP group at the end of April - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=99656082#post99656082

The Cush

droidman123 wrote: »

What is the "amp" that i need? Is it an amplifier in the aerial?

No, masthead amplifier located near to the aerial with power supply at the TV point.

Examples
https://www.blake-uk.com/32-masthead-amplifiers-outdoor-low-noise
https://www.blake-uk.com/66-power-supplies-regulated-and-unregulated-12v

http://www.satworld.ie/amps-and-diplexers/masthead-amplifiers/
http://www.satworld.ie/amps-and-diplexers/power-supplies/
http://www.freetv.ie/saorview/amplifiers/masthead.html
http://www.freetv.ie/saorview/amplifiers/aerial-power-unit.html

WheatenBriar

The Cush wrote: »

The question is how will the DTT replan and clearance of the 700MHz band affect overspill of Freeview along the east coast and NI in the next few years?

The plan for the main sites was included in a press release from the WEDDIP group at the end of April - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=99656082#post99656082

On presely,clermont carn taking ch 45 might be an issue down my way,however we cannot get saorview from there and never had a peep of analogue so probably not
Mt leinster does block Divis up in meath being the comparison but its very high and has no objects like the wicklow mtns in the way

Thurston?

fuse wrote: »

There seems to be a number of boxes on the mast. Dusky pic attached, hopefully will give an idea.

fuse wrote: »

Yes all combined to a single cable which feeds into the centre point of red box above.

Certainly a more elaborate setup than what seems to be the usual single wideband aerial used for Kilkeel & Clermont Carn, with the whole lot indiscriminately amplifed by the same amount.

Looks like the top 2 aerials would be for Kilkeel, by far the lower powered transmitter. These would be combined, to make a single large aerial basically, with the signal from this passing through a masthead amplifier.

The bottom aerial would be for Clermont Carn, combined with Kilkeel using a diplexer, a frequency-selective combiner, passing different frequency bands on each leg. Also possible there's some amplification for CC as well.

As for the Three Rock v. Clermont Carn factor, if the setup dates back to analogue days, & there was a decent signal from Clermont, it would have been chosen in preference to Three Rock, as TG4 from 3R was in a different aerial frequency group from the other 3 channels, which would have added complication to combining with Kilkeel.

fuse

I had another root around over the weekend and pretty sure I located the power cable running up to the mast. No sign of the power box so I can only assume it's up at the base of the mast on the roof.

I can't get up on the roof easily so may need to get a pro out to check it.

Another experiment I did was to disconnect all the cables that were feeding into the splitter box and down to the TV wall outputs. Lo and behold the signal on the TV downstairs didn't cut out! It degraded a bit but the channel was still pretty watchable! So the saorview signal is obviously pretty strong anyway.

So it really looks like I need to get someone out to check out the aerials on roof and whether the power going to them is working.

The Cush

fuse wrote: »

I had another root around over the weekend and pretty sure I located the power cable running up to the mast. No sign of the power box so I can only assume it's up at the base of the mast on the roof.

Power to a masthead amp will be carried on the same co-ax cable that carries the TV signal. How many cables run to the aerials from the attic?

fuse

The Cush wrote: »

Power to a masthead amp will be carried on the same co-ax cable that carries the TV signal. How many cables run to the aerials from the attic?

Really? That's the thing I could see the single main coax feeding up under the roof and out of sight towards the mast (there's an attic conversion.) I couldn't see any power line going up though. So I went to the eaves on teh other side of the attic room and could see a mains cable heading up under the roof in what looks like the direction of the mast.

When you say it's on the same co-ax cable, you mean there's also power in that cable, or the power cable should also run alongside it?

The Cush

fuse wrote: »

When you say it's on the same co-ax cable, you mean there's also power in that cable, or the power cable should also run alongside it?

It's only 12V and carried on the same cable. The power supply and amp are simply inserted into the line between the TV and aerial. Have a look at the links I posted above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIgafRXbrdA

fuse

The Cush wrote: »

One option is to get a professional in to check the system.

Regarding power to the mast, is there a power supply unit located at any of the TV points with the co-ax cable connected to it? In your picture of the attic splitter, power would pass-through leg 2 by the looks of it to a masthead amp on the aerial mast, to which TV point does the co-ax cable at leg 2 go, is there a power supply located there? Maybe there isn't a power supply which might explain the lack of UK signal and occasional Saorview breakup or the power supply or masthead amp are faulty.

Examples of power supplies - https://www.blake-uk.com/66-power-supplies-regulated-and-unregulated-12v

There's no power supply at the TV points. I couldn't see any power supply in the attic. The cable from antenna just goes straight into the red splitter box pictured earlier (larger middle one).

Given that I'm pretty sure there is already at least one masthead amplifier fitted on the roof, I might try picking up a power supply like: https://www.blake-uk.com/66-power-supplies-regulated-and-unregulated-12v and connect it in the attic. Ditch the red splitter box and just run the masthead cable into the power supply box and then connect one of the internal cables and I should have a good strong signal running to one of the wall sockets?
Only using one TV at the moment so I'm happy to just get a single power supply.

Will need a bit of trial and error to figure out which cable runs to the socket I'm using.

The Cush

If you're planning to feed further TV points from the attic in future this distribution amplifier with integrated power supply for a masthead amplifier might be worth considering

https://www.blake-uk.com/distribution-amplifiers-low-noise-indoor/204-amplifiers-and-boosters-4-6-8-way-fm-uhf-amplifier-distribution-amplifiers-proception.html

fuse

The Cush wrote: »

If you're planning to feed further TV points from the attic in future this distribution amplifier with integrated power supply for a masthead amplifier might be worth considering

https://www.blake-uk.com/distribution-amplifiers-low-noise-indoor/204-amplifiers-and-boosters-4-6-8-way-fm-uhf-amplifier-distribution-amplifiers-proception.html

I picked up a 2-output proception power supply from freetv.ie
Stuck some F connectors on the two cables going down to the living room. But the cable that comes from the mast is too thick to put standard F connectors on and the middle wire in it won't fit into the "in" of the power supply.

Is there some kind of adapter I should get?

I tried setting up the power supply in the living room. Connected the wall output to the "in" of the power supply and then cable to the TV in the "out". Didn't seem to change anything. I auto updated channels in UK mode and it did the usual, picked up over 70 channels but only the soarview ones worked...

I'm hoping the power supply will be more effective in the attic closer to the masthead...

Thurston?

There are f-connectors available for larger diameter cable but, for now if you want, you could just connect the splitter up again, & insert the power into the cable coming from 'thru leg 2' of the splitter. (Is the other that can't be seen simply labeled 'leg 1' or is it also a 'thru leg'?)

Maybe this was actually the cable that feeds the wall output you were using but if there's an actual wallplate with a socket, it's possible it's the type that blocks power from getting through.

The Cush

fuse wrote: »

I picked up a 2-output proception power supply from freetv.ie
Stuck some F connectors on the two cables going down to the living room. But the cable that comes from the mast is too thick to put standard F connectors on and the middle wire in it won't fit into the "in" of the power supply.

Is there some kind of adapter I should get?

Is there any identifying markings on the cable?

Standard F connectors fit RG6/CT100 size cables (7mm), I've used CT125 cable (8mm) previously which requires a slightly larger F connector. Yesterday I fitted an even larger F connector to an RG213 cable (50 ohm).

fuse

The Cush wrote: »

Is there any identifying markings on the cable?

Standard F connectors fit RG6/CT100 size cables (7mm), I've used CT125 cable (8mm) previously which requires a slightly larger F connector. Yesterday I fitted an even larger F connector to an RG213 cable (50 ohm).

I'll check for markings this evening. I could fit the connector over it once I had stripped back the black outer layer. I pared back the white plastic surrounding the core wire and fit the f connector over it, but then the actual core wire wouldn't fit into the input of the power supply box.

I'll try Thurstons method this eve by using the splitter box and hopefully that will do the job.

Cheers

fuse

OK, really hoped I'd get something this evening but no luck again.

I took a few pics to show exactly what's going on. I even brought the TV up to the attic to test properly.

Firstly I connected the masthead cable directly to TV and had perfect Saorview and nothing else.

I had a male/female coax plug so I cut the male end off and put an F connector on it.
I used the female end to connect the thicker masthead cable into.
Connected this to the IN of the power supply and connected the out directly to TV.
Once again perfect Saorview.

So I changed the TV country to UK and retuned. It picked up the 72 channels but still the same result - Saying "Service not available" when I try any of the channels from 801 - 850

Ch 800 says Data Service and shows 2rn logo.

Sorview channels work from 851 - 872


Some pics attached to show the setup.



http://i.imgur.com/hjbGvg5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DOfKr1p.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jjEjHWq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7Aarzw9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NNMuPVx.jpg

Edit: Also, the red splitter box is an Inductive Combiner Splitter
I bypassed this with the power supply. Should I continue to use it?

The Cush

Assuming all the connections are properly made, as was said earlier the masthead amp could be faulty, assuming there is one there. How long has that aerial installation been in place?

You may have to get a professional installer to look at it if you're still interested in receiving the UK channels via the aerial.

The Cush

fuse wrote: »

I bypassed this with the power supply. Should I continue to use it?

I would say there isn't much point feeding power to the aerial if the masthead amp is faulty or not there.

Thurston?

fuse wrote: »

I had a male/female coax plug so I cut the male end off and put an F connector on it.
I used the female end to connect the thicker masthead cable into.

The braid of the heavy cable doesn't seem to be in contact with the outer part of the plug you've stuck it into? That won't do ... and obviously the same goes for any f-connectors you fit.

fuse wrote: »

... the red splitter box is an Inductive Combiner Splitter
I bypassed this with the power supply. Should I continue to use it?

There's no need to use it if you have the 2-output PSU. I only suggested it as a way of connecting everything up, in the absence of the necessary f-connector. (And I should have thought of the heavier inner wire probably not fitting the female f-connector on the PSU.)

fuse

Thurston? wrote: »

The braid of the heavy cable doesn't seem to be in contact with the outer part of the plug you've stuck it into? That won't do ... and obviously the same goes for any f-connectors you fit.

Ahh, I didn't realise that was important. The normal F connectors I connected are in contact with the braid on the other cables, so it's just this one that isn't, because of my hacky way of doing it.

I'll have to try it again this evening so. I wonder how likely it is to make a big difference? When I connected it as in the picture, saorview instantly worked.
Unless the lack of braid contact affected the power flow?

Thurston?

fuse wrote: »

... Unless the lack of braid contact affected the power flow?

Yes, & the signal too, but it would seem you're in a strong signal area for Saorview.

fuse

Thurston? wrote: »

Yes, & the signal too, but it would seem you're in a strong signal area for Saorview.

Holy crap, it worked! ...kind of!

I can now see a selection of freeview channels.
UTV, C4/5, ITV2, More 4, Film 4, E4
Unfortunately no BBCs though...

Getting pretty decent reception. Breaks up a little bit now and again, but that's probably because of my makeshift cabling. I can now get proper cables & connectors.

It was obviously the lack of contact with the braid. Fair play for spotting that Thurston you legend!

Delighted I finally managed to get it going, just as I was about to throw in the towel!
Would love to get the BBCs working as they're mainly what I want. Any idea why I'm only seeing some of the channels? If I manage to improve the connections that might do it?

Special thanks to Thurston and The Cush for your patience and helpfulness

The Cush

Glad to hear you got it almost sorted, any luck on identifying the cable?

What is the external diameter of the cable, these are 10mm F connectors - http://www.freetv.ie/ct165-f-connectors.html

fuse

The Cush wrote: »

Glad to hear you got it almost sorted, any luck on identifying the cable?

What is the external diameter of the cable, these are 10mm F connectors - http://www.freetv.ie/ct165-f-connectors.html

Cheers

No markings on the thick cable and I don't have a calipers but I make it out to be ~10mm possibly 9.

So if I get that larger F connector you linked to, will I still have the problem that the thicker core won't fit into the IN of my power supply?
Or is there another adapter for that?

fuse

Just noticing from this list: http://www.radioandtelly.co.uk/freeviewchannels.html

I'm only receiving Mux: PSB2 channels

Whatever that means!

Thurston?

fuse wrote: »

So if I get that larger F connector ... will I still have the problem that the thicker core won't fit into the IN of my power supply?

The connector should come with a reducer for the centre core: just a pin that fits on the end of the wire, & in turn will fit into a female f-connector.

The Cush

fuse wrote: »

So if I get that larger F connector you linked to, will I still have the problem that the thicker core won't fit into the IN of my power supply?
Or is there another adapter for that?

Look at the video on that page I linked to for the connector, it'll show you how to make the connector. Ensure the core wire and braid/connector body don't make contact, but the braid must make contact with the outer threaded portion/body of the connector.

You'll see there is a plastic collar and central contact pin or reducer as they call it in the video, which would work in your situation. But the text on the page says the plastic collar isn't available but not sure about the contact pin/reducer if its also missing. The plastic collar is used to hold the central pin in place. Perhaps you could give them a call.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqwDYzPaURc