Do Professional football clubs contribute anything to society?

Richard Hillman

During the recent trouble between Bohs and Shamrock Rovers, I was of the opinion that neither club contributes anything good to society or to their local areas economy. They are a drain on police resources, transportation, local businesses and local residents. The clubs don't even employ many people. In summary the world would be be better place without them.

Over the last couple of weeks we have seen very large scale incidents involving West Ham and Millwall, with Liverpool and Sevilla getting involved in trouble. Liverpool are no strangers to this with the black stain of Heysel following them around.

Now we get to why I am writing this thread......Scotland and yesterday. I dont think anybody could have a legitimate argument that the world wouldn't be better off without the Old Firm. Two clubs that have managed to sustain sectarianism in Scottish and Nothern Irish society. Domestic abuse skyrockets when the two play each other. Rangers trashed Manchester and Celtic fans cant seen to be able to attend a game without breaking seats.

This isn't just confined to the Old Firm. The behaviour of Hibs fans yesterday was appalling. They stormed the pitch and assaulted Rangers players. Hearts have have record too of assaulting playing/management staff. There are constantly incidents of drunkeness, violence and abuse around Scottish football games. Scotland would be a far better society without football.

In other countries people have been murdered because they don't like the chosen team of the killer. Many clubs are used as money laundering exercises. The kits that the players wear are made in Sweatshops. The Governing body are corrupt to the core with reports of money laundering, bribery and undue influence occurring on a weekly basis.

Overall, the question is what does your club contribute to society? Is it all negative? Is visiting the local children's hospital with the SSN cameras good enough?

I can see how local amateur/junior clubs contribute to society. I cannot see what the professionals actually do.


TLDR: Professional clubs have such a negative effect on society thay they probably should be discontinued ...Discuss?

Richard Hillman

Can a mod edit my spelling error in the title :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Richard Hillman wrote: »

During the recent trouble between Bohs and Shamrock Rovers, I was of the opinion that neither club contributes anything good to society or to their local areas economy. They are a drain on police resources, transportation, local businesses and local residents. The clubs don't even employ many people. In summary the world would be be better place without them.

Over the last couple of weeks we have seen very large scale incidents involving West Ham and Millwall, with Liverpool and Sevilla getting involved in trouble. Liverpool are no strangers to this with the black stain of Heysel following them around.

Now we get to why I am writing this thread......Scotland and yesterday. I dont think anybody could have a legitimate argument that the world wouldn't be better off without the Old Firm. Two clubs that have managed to sustain sectarianism in Scottish and Nothern Irish society. Domestic abuse skyrockets when the two play each other. Rangers trashed Manchester and Celtic fans cant seen to be able to attend a game without breaking seats.

This isn't just confined to the Old Firm. The behaviour of Hibs fans yesterday was appalling. They stormed the pitch and assaulted Rangers players. Hearts have have record too of assaulting playing/management staff. There are constantly incidents of drunkeness, violence and abuse around Scottish football games. Scotland would be a far better society without football.

In other countries people have been murdered because they don't like the chosen team of the killer. Many clubs are used as money laundering exercises. The kits that the players wear are made in Sweatshops. The Governing body are corrupt to the core with reports of money laundering, bribery and undue influence occurring on a weekly basis.

Overall, the question is what does your club contribute to society? Is it all negative? Is visiting the local children's hospital with the SSN cameras good enough?

I can see how local amateur/junior clubs contribute to society. I cannot see what the professionals actually do.


TLDR: Professional clubs have such a negative effect on society thay they probably should be discontinued ...Discuss?

Coorelation =/= causation.

For a start, you're exaggerating a lot of the scenes you mention. Sevilla-Liverpool? I've seen worse in Temple bar on most weekends for Heaven's sake!

A lot of the problems aren't caused by football - they're casued by individuals who want a fight and just pick a team because it's an easy outlet.

SO overall, it sounds like you've started with a confirmation bias: you have a bias against football clubs and have gone looking for examples to confim your bias, most of which are pretty tenuous.

In answer to your question? A lot of clubs participate in organsiing youth teams and junior leagues to give kids a chance to play with and agaist each other, usually from about 7-years old and up. A football club is just that - a club - at grassroots level. Especially in smaller cities and societies. You really think it;s fair to "discontinue" them because two or three idiots threw a bottle at a bus in East London? Come on - a bit of perspective, please!

Harry Palmr

:rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

This is just a 'I don't like Scottish football' thread masquerading as 'I am concerned about the societal issues football bring'... get a grip

For your info, yesterday was Rangers and Hibs yet you conflate to include Celtic!! Where is your piece on societal issues brought into football?

EuropeanSon

They certainly contribute entertainment. As far as the violence etc goes, the only question is how much less would there be without them? I don't think much. People would find a different reason to fight and cause havoc. Whether that would be more or less havoc is hard to tell.

Dirty Dingus McGee

They provide people with a entertainment.

They are not charities so expecting them to care about anything above providing entertainment is ridiculous.

Professional sport is basically like an ongoing television show/concert tour that never ends.

The problem sometimes is that it seems a large amount of sports journalists and sports fans have this misguided notion that sport is more meaningful thanall other types of entertainment and then try to turn clubs into something they really don't have to be. (i.e be a part of the community , be role models for children etc).Nobody expects Warner Brothers or HBO to be good for society why should professional soccer clubs be any different.

Richard Hillman

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

They provide people with a entertainment.

They are not charities so expecting them to care about anything above providing entertainment is ridiculous.

Professional sport is basically like an ongoing television show/concert tour that never ends.

The problem sometimes is that it seems a large amount of sports journalists and sports fans have this misguided notion that sport is more meaningful thanall other types of entertainment and then try to turn clubs into something they really don't have to be. (i.e be a part of the community , be role models for children etc).Nobody expects Warner Brothers or HBO to be good for society why should professional soccer clubs be any different.

I agree, I don't think they are obliged to provide "good" to society. What I am saying is that they contribute so much bad that I don't see why they are still being tolerated.

The Swedish House Mafia entertain a lot of people but none of us would tolerate a concert in our area because we know the trouble that it attracts. And local councils wouldn't give it planning permission, again because they know how much trouble it brings. Football seems to be exempt from this, even though the club's have such a bad effect of the community and society.

- bo -

Can't speak for any other clubs, but we have super work being done behind the scenes at Bohs over the past number of years.

You mention providing employment but we can't for obvious reasons. We have one full-time member of staff in the office and the rest (off the field) is all done voluntarily. When you're struggling to get 1500 people in the gate every week, the money just isn't there.

We have recently launched The Bohemian Foundation. We've had players and coaches visit local schools giving coaching and educating kids on nutrition and healthy living. We have an ever-growing kids' academy every Saturday morning in Dalymount. At every home game we have up to 4 kids' teams who come along as guests (and their parents get in for a reduced rate), and the kids get to play a match on the pitch at half-time. A group of volunteers have done a lot of work in Mountjoy over the past few years - coaching and annual challenge matches, comedy workshops and gigs with some well-known comedians who have given up their time. We are launching a walking football initiative for over 50s.

We've had a few one-off things like the club organising the cleaning of the graffiti'd Liam Whelan bridge a couple of years ago when it was vandalised, and other small things like bucket collections for childrens' charities, sponsorship initiatives with a percentage going to Focus Ireland, players publicising Organ Donor awareness week. Players have done plenty of kids' hospital visits down the years with trophies (been a while...)

There are plenty of other things go on and plenty of future plans. A lot of it is done in partnership with Dublin City Council and bodies such as Special Olympics Ireland, Age Action, Irish Prison Service, Garda Youth Diversion Project.

So I don't think it's really fair to say clubs don't contribute anything. It's just a shame that a minute-long incident involving a few blow-ins gets instant national media coverage and the above only get a fraction of it.

Doctor Jimbob

We should do away with music as well, you mentioned yourself that there has been violence at Swedish House Mafia concerts.

Your argument could be made against pretty much any form of entertainment. It's preposterous.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

We should do away with music as well, you mentioned yourself that there has been violence at Swedish House Mafia concerts.

Your argument could be made against pretty much any form of entertainment. It's preposterous.

"Of course, it would be wrong to suggest this sort of mayhem began with rock-and-roll. After all, there were riots at the premiere of Mozart's "The Magic Flute." So, what's the answer? Ban all music? In this reporter's opinion, the answer, sadly, is 'yes'."

Kent Brockman Channel 6 News

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I agree, I don't think they are obliged to provide "good" to society. What I am saying is that they contribute so much bad that I don't see why they are still being tolerated.

The Swedish House Mafia entertain a lot of people but none of us would tolerate a concert in our area because we know the trouble that it attracts. And local councils wouldn't give it planning permission, again because they know how much trouble it brings. Football seems to be exempt from this, even though the club's have such a bad effect of the community and society.

Ok, this has descend into an ignorant rant now. "So much bad"...? Seriously? Only if you exaggerage ridiculously as you did in the opening post.

Comparing a football match to a Swedish Mafia concert? Oh dear.

thebaz

perhaps in todays PC nanny state you could argue that professional football clubs offer little - nah, so many many people enjoy football , whether its the millions who enjoy CL , the millions who enjoy the Premier league , the wondrous scenes at Leicester , the unreal passion of Latin America football, our own local level & junior support - Football is adored throughout the world - I much preferred playing , but football is a wonderful escape , passion to some of the horrors in the world today - so Football offers way way more than a few isolated incidents , anyway they would fight somewhere else -

monkey9

This would be one of the more stupidest threads on the forum. What nonsense.

LeBash

OP do you reckon the fans that rip up seats, throw bottles etc only do so at football games? I'm guessing if you look at their day to day lives you will see similar thuggery without football involved. It's just higher profile when football is involved.

keeponhurling

thebaz wrote: »

perhaps in todays PC nanny state you could argue that professional football clubs offer little - nah, so many many people enjoy football , whether its the millions who enjoy CL , the millions who enjoy the Premier league , the wondrous scenes at Leicester , the unreal passion of Latin America football, our own local level & junior support - Football is adored throughout the world - I much preferred playing , but football is a wonderful escape , passion to some of the horrors in the world today - so Football offers way way more than a few isolated incidents , anyway they would fight somewhere else -

Sorry but can we please get back to bashing Celtic. Thanks.

artanevilla

OPs ignorance of what LOI clubs do in their local communities is absolutely astounding to me.

citytillidie

Don't forget OP about fans of the same team fighting each other

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GBWwOwpv0Q

Dirty Dingus McGee

artanevilla wrote: »

OPs ignorance of what LOI clubs do in their local communities is absolutely astounding to me.

I don't think it is in fairness.

The LOI gets very little coverage in the media and certainly there isn't a huge amount of coverage of any off the field activities.

^^Wouldn't ya know, only two pages in and turns into another willy waving session :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

M!Ck^ wrote: »

^^Wouldn't ya know, only two pages in and turns into another willy waving session :pac:

You surprised

The_Kew_Tour

Sorry I just have 2 Rangers fans in a headlock, what was the question again?

Gavlor

thebaz wrote: »

perhaps in todays PC nanny state you could argue that professional football clubs offer little - nah, so many many people enjoy football , whether its the millions who enjoy CL , the millions who enjoy the Premier league , the wondrous scenes at Leicester , the unreal passion of Latin America football, our own local level & junior support - Football is adored throughout the world - I much preferred playing , but football is a wonderful escape , passion to some of the horrors in the world today - so Football offers way way more than a few isolated incidents , anyway they would fight somewhere else -

Spelling classes would be a start

I'm surprised you aren't aware of the great work that Everton do across merseyside...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/11337745/Everton-are-a-shining-beacon-for-football-as-a-force-for-good-in-the-community.html

redzerdrog

Domestic abuse skyrockets when the old firm plays each other. I'd be interested in hearing more about this? Any figures to back it up?

chopperbyrne

Liverpool do wonderful things for their local community.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

Washington Irving

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Liverpool do wonderful things for their local community.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

No need for the sarcasm. We already know Liverpool and their fans are literally the worst in the world of any sport.

artanevilla

Here's what happened between Bohs and Rovers a couple of years ago.

WARNING, GRAPHIC IMAGES.

Paz-CCFC

artanevilla wrote: »

Here's what happened between Bohs and Rovers a couple of years ago.

WARNING, GRAPHIC IMAGES.

A couple of years before that, they helped to raise €10,000 for Action Breast Cancer Ireland.

The last few years Cork City have had different charity partners, including the Cork Association for Autism and the Mercy Hospital. This has seen direct financial fundraising for the partners by the club, as well as the national exposure received from being partnered to the club.

Look at some of the work Limerick have been doing from one of their annual reports a few years ago. Free season tickets to local community groups, bursaries to attend UL, coaching in prisons, being kit sponsors of local clubs, covering the costs of trips for junior clubs to see the national team etc.

That's just a few examples of the fantastic work that clubs have done. The High Court have even expressly recognised - on more than one occasion - the importance of League of Ireland football clubs to their communities.

So yes, professional football clubs do contribute to their society.

artanevilla

You reminded me of this as well.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/footballs-extraordinary-power-to-break-down-walls-within-walls-29542675.html

applehunter

This is longform trolling.

Laois_Man

Everton have a proud tradition in their local community

Everton in the Community (EitC) is a sporting charity with multisport and other social activities. Created as a community department of Everton Football Club in 1988. Operates in area of Merseyside.[1] The olympic and paralympic sport activities including mainly badminton, volleyball, table tennis and judo.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everton_in_the_Community

Everton Football Club has become the first Premier League club in the country to be granted government permission to open a Free School.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-15729296

'People's Club' run disability teams, social inclusion schemes, work with young offenders and transform the lives of children among numerous initiatives that benefit society

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/11337745/Everton-are-a-shining-beacon-for-football-as-a-force-for-good-in-the-community.html

Coillte_Bhoy

redzerdrog wrote: »

Domestic abuse skyrockets when the old firm plays each other. I'd be interested in hearing more about this? Any figures to back it up?

First you make a wild statement as if it's fact and then you look for stats to back it up.

Shaque attack

or he could have read the thread from the start instead...

Peist2007

Richard Hillman wrote: »

During the recent trouble between Bohs and Shamrock Rovers, I was of the opinion that neither club contributes anything good to society or to their local areas economy. They are a drain on police resources, transportation, local businesses and local residents. The clubs don't even employ many people. In summary the world would be be better place without them.

Over the last couple of weeks we have seen very large scale incidents involving West Ham and Millwall, with Liverpool and Sevilla getting involved in trouble. Liverpool are no strangers to this with the black stain of Heysel following them around.

Now we get to why I am writing this thread......Scotland and yesterday. I dont think anybody could have a legitimate argument that the world wouldn't be better off without the Old Firm. Two clubs that have managed to sustain sectarianism in Scottish and Nothern Irish society. Domestic abuse skyrockets when the two play each other. Rangers trashed Manchester and Celtic fans cant seen to be able to attend a game without breaking seats.

This isn't just confined to the Old Firm. The behaviour of Hibs fans yesterday was appalling. They stormed the pitch and assaulted Rangers players. Hearts have have record too of assaulting playing/management staff. There are constantly incidents of drunkeness, violence and abuse around Scottish football games. Scotland would be a far better society without football.

In other countries people have been murdered because they don't like the chosen team of the killer. Many clubs are used as money laundering exercises. The kits that the players wear are made in Sweatshops. The Governing body are corrupt to the core with reports of money laundering, bribery and undue influence occurring on a weekly basis.

Overall, the question is what does your club contribute to society? Is it all negative? Is visiting the local children's hospital with the SSN cameras good enough?

I can see how local amateur/junior clubs contribute to society. I cannot see what the professionals actually do.


TLDR: Professional clubs have such a negative effect on society thay they probably should be discontinued ...Discuss?

Football contributes positively in an intangible sense. Imagine the void in any of our lives without football? Football is one millions of people's main source of pleasure. If you managed to measure that and then set it off against the negative aspects i am sure football would still be well in the black.

Richard Hillman

Might as well extend this to International football. I wonder are the residents of Lille, Lens and Marseille benefiting from the tournament?

Would Dubliners be happy if Russia drew England or Poland in Euro 2020 at Lansdowne Road?

Fr Tod Umptious

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Might as well extend this to International football. I wonder are the residents of Lille, Lens and Marseille benefiting from the tournament?

Would Dubliners be happy if Russia drew England or Poland in Euro 2020 at Lansdowne Road?

Getting your town torn up by a bunch of thugs is not very nice alright but overall there would be benefits, particularly in terms of roads, airports, train stations, hotels etc

But I'm not sure if the extra income gained from more spending on food, drink, taxis etc in the town would cover the cost of the broken glass and wrecked furniture.