Naughty L & N plate drivers are getting caught.

Wonzy

For 2 penalty points and a 80 quid fine everyone is going to chance it and I would myself if I didn't allready have my full. There are basically no check points on the roads and havnt been through one in six years doing around 600km a week.

I'd be more worried about the 79 people a day been caught on their phones than leaner drivers or the idiots on the motorway.

Pugzilla

Wonzy wrote: »

For 2 penalty points and a 80 quid fine everyone is going to chance it and I would myself if I didn't allready have my full. There are basically no check points on the roads and havnt been through one in six years doing around 600km a week.

I'd be more worried about the 79 people a day been caught on their phones than leaner drivers or the idiots on the motorway.

What happens when you have an accident and the insurance company comes after you to pay for damages. Not to mention driving up the insurance for other learners.

Sure it will be grand?

FortySeven

Can you imagine any situation in life where you called a professional to do a job and a trainee was sent with the excuse that they're not qualified because they're from the country,?

Plumber, paramedic, builder etc?

Sure, it's only driving, it's not like there is any safety issues or any large amounts of money involved.

Henry Ford III

Take a chance operating a potentially lethal high speed 1.5 tonne machine illegally and thereby risking all other road users who might be unfortunate enough to encounter you?

This attitude of entitlement is as dangerous as any potentially poorly educated and untested driver out there.

LawlessBoy

May not be popular on here for saying this, but when i first started driving i regularly drove unaccompanied.
In the 6 months i spent driving on a permit i think i was stopped once and wasnt even asked about my licence. At the time it wasnt really enforced. They do seem to be clamping down a bit heavier on it now though. I do know a few people that have been done on it or atleast been told they were going to be done on it.

Speedwell

Pugzilla wrote: »

What happens when you have an accident and the insurance company comes after you to pay for damages. Not to mention driving up the insurance for other learners.

Sure it will be grand?

Several grand.

But seriously, there are times... I'll never forget when my nine-week-old kitten broke his paw as I was going to bed one night and I had to get him to the after-hours vet. I was on my provisional at the time. Oh, well. I wasn't about to let the little shivering thing suffer until I could take him on the bus to the vet the next morning. Oh, wait, the bus doesn't even allow pets, right.

Pugzilla

Speedwell wrote: »

Several grand.

But seriously, there are times... I'll never forget when my nine-week-old kitten broke his paw as I was going to bed one night and I had to get him to the after-hours vet. I was on my provisional at the time. Oh, well. I wasn't about to let the little shivering thing suffer until I could take him on the bus to the vet the next morning. Oh, wait, the bus doesn't even allow pets, right.

Cats are roadkill everyday. Do you think your kitten will save you in court if you knock someone down?

duffman3833

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Take a chance operating a potentially lethal high speed 1.5 tonne machine illegally and thereby risking all other road users who might be unfortunate enough to encounter you?

This attitude of entitlement is as dangerous as any potentially poorly educated and untested driver out there.

So your saying all learner drivers are lethal to other road users just because they have an L plate? Anyone in a car can be lethal, not just learner drivers. Educated or not, there are more full licensed drivers out there that were just given a license, no training or test. They can be lethal too??

uck51js9zml2yt

Saw a checkpoint last week in Cabra with an unaccompanied learner being pulled in.

AGS seem to be getting heavy on it as they had an armed gard nearby;)

uck51js9zml2yt

Caliden wrote: »

How did the person manage BEFORE getting a provisional?

If in the country , the drove a tractor from 14 years old

wonski

duffman3833 wrote: »

So your saying all learner drivers are lethal to other road users just because they have an L plate? Anyone in a car can be lethal, not just learner drivers. Educated or not, there are more full licensed drivers out there that were just given a license, no training or test. They can be lethal too??

Here we go again.

Millions of drivers given a license...

They had as many tests as you did ( the theory one), but lot more practice by now, though

Henry Ford III

duffman3833 wrote: »

So your saying all learner drivers are lethal to other road users just because they have an L plate? Anyone in a car can be lethal, not just learner drivers. Educated or not, there are more full licensed drivers out there that were just given a license, no training or test. They can be lethal too??

No that's not what I'm saying. Please reread it.

The difference is that a licensed driver is legally allowed to drive alone, whereas a learner permit holder obviously isn't.

That lowest common denominator thing has been used many times, and always fails.

Speedwell

Pugzilla wrote: »

Cats are roadkill everyday. Do you think your kitten will save you in court if you knock someone down?

I've been an accident-free driver for 30-plus years, thanks. You are safer in the car with me than with any driver under the age of 45.

As for me, I imagine I'd be safer in a car with almost anyone else than with someone who considers cats to be roadkill.

Pugzilla

Speedwell wrote: »

I've been an accident-free driver for 30-plus years, thanks. You are safer in the car with me than with any driver under the age of 45.

As for me, I imagine I'd be safer in a car with almost anyone else than with someone who considers cats to be roadkill.

I saw 3 dead cats in my driving today. Was I hallucinating then?

Speedwell

Pugzilla wrote: »

I saw 3 dead cars in my driving today. Was I hallucinating then?

Dead cars?

FortySeven

Pugzilla wrote: »

I saw 3 dead cars in my driving today. Was I hallucinating then?

Sure, any good mechanic should be able to get them back up and running?

FortySeven

Speedwell wrote: »

Dead cars?

Jaguars obviously.

Henry Ford III

Speedwell wrote: »

I've been an accident-free driver for 30-plus years, thanks. You are safer in the car with me than with any driver under the age of 45.

As for me, I imagine I'd be safer in a car with almost anyone else than with someone who considers cats to be roadkill.

Until such time as you've proved (by passing the test) that you're in no position to make that judgement.

An injured pet is no excuse.

Speedwell

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Until such time as you've proved (by passing the test) that you're in no position to make that judgement.

An injured pet is no excuse.

Now you're just reaching.

Henry Ford III

Speedwell wrote: »

Now you're just reaching.

Not at all.

Can you explain to us how you were justified to drive illegally in those circumstances bearing in mind that your assessment of your (at the time untested) driving abilities were irrelevant?

I bet you can't.

PeteK*

I've seen a few cars over the last few days alone with both N and L plates displayed!

Remember, L & N drivers only need 7 points (not 7) to be disqualified!

Also, a long time ago, possibly nowhere official, I remember reading if you're not an L driver, you shouldn't have the plates up when you're driving.

Speedwell

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Not at all.

Can you explain to us how you were justified to drive illegally in those circumstances bearing in mind that your assessment of your (at the time untested) driving abilities were irrelevant?

I bet you can't.

I can't, because according to a local garda I wasn't driving illegally at all, being in possession, as I was, of a current foreign licence valid for driving in Ireland. And my driving abilities were not only not untested, but proven to be safe for the purpose, as my insurance company agreed by giving me full no-claims bonus. And I've been speaking only to my own case, too.

I didn't push it, though, in case some other officer disagreed. Which is sort of the point... there should be some sort of hardship exemption or other case-dependent exemption for people who can't afford to wait three months for a test. Maybe assistance with public transport, at least.

FortySeven

Speedwell wrote: »

I can't, because according to a local garda I wasn't driving illegally at all, being in possession, as I was, of a current foreign licence valid for driving in Ireland. And my driving abilities were not only not untested, but proven to be safe for the purpose, as my insurance company agreed by giving me full no-claims bonus. And I've been speaking only to my own case, too.

I didn't push it, though, in case some other officer disagreed. Which is sort of the point... there should be some sort of hardship exemption or other case-dependent exemption for people who can't afford to wait three months for a test. Maybe assistance with public transport, at least.

Advocating subsidies for transport for those without a licence? Good luck floating that one when the majority of people who somehow managed to pass a test are able to have a say.

Instead of these massive societal changes being foisted on the nation perhaps you could just go and pass the test? It would be the cheapest option and cause the least fuss to the rest of us?

Meh. I'd encourage learners to go out on their own. Only real way to learn, to be honest. Someone sitting in the passenger seat, unable to assist in any way, is quite pointless.

I'd love to see the statistics for crashes caused, lives lost, etc. at the hands of L drivers. And assuming there's anything of any heft, I'd love to further see the breakdown of accidents caused by L drivers with and without accompanying drivers, so we could see, statistically, what benefit is offered by a licensed passenger.

Dord

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I passed a few L plate displayers on 2 motorways earlier.

There's no excuse - if they are qualified drivers they should take them down.

I'm not saying it's always the case but it may be that they share the car with a learner. I'm in that situation. I'm not a learner driver but have an L plate on the car. I will say that unfortunately I get a lot more **** from other drivers because of the L plate.

EDIT: I've got the "easy remove" ones on mine at the moment but they've actually transferred onto the window. That happened within a very short space of time. The magnetic plates don't work on all cars. My last car had plastic panels, and IIRC when I tried them on the current one they wouldn't stay.

Pinch Flat

It must be the only country in the world where you can attend a test centre for your test, fail then drive home.

I did my test in London about 20 years ago - coming from the oul sod, I told my instructor I'd drop the car back that I'd hired if I failed - he was obviously having none of it. As it turned out, I passed.

There's a thread on the RSA Facebook page at the moment about propionate drivers. The comments are hilarious - yeah, like making people take a prescribed course of lessons before the test is such a bad idea :rolleyes:

Tigger

2 points and €80 for driving with no licence
3 points and €80 for driving past a speed van at slightly over the limit

jelutong

PeteK* wrote: »

I've seen a few cars over the last few days alone with both N and L plates displayed!

Remember, L & N drivers only need 7 points (not 7) to be disqualified!

Also, a long time ago, possibly nowhere official, I remember reading if you're not an L driver, you shouldn't have the plates up when you're driving.

Good old L&N. They had grocery shops in the Waterford area years ago.
The delivery vans had L&N plastered all over them..

moc moc a moc

wonski wrote: »

I passed a driving school (instructor) car in Naas very recently with both N AND L displayed

Nah, the driver was just Dutch

Pinch Flat

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It must be the only country in the world where you can attend a test centre for your test, fail then drive home.

But you can't You could do a few years ago if you were on your 2nd provisional.

After about a month leading up to my test I drove unaccompanied. Once I was comfortable driving. Was encouraged by most people to do it. My driving instructor was even like "shur the Gardai don't really care". And they don't. Not in Kerry/Cork anyway. Drove past them loads of times and never got stopped. Never heard of anyone I know being stopped for driving unaccompanied. Probably happens more often in Dublin where there tends to be more checkpoints..

Canadel

GreatDefector wrote: »

Yes. Simple. If I see you in your own on the motorway what do I think?

Think whatever you like?

If the person is driving in line with the rules of the road then I'm really struggling to see what your problem here is.

Pinch Flat

Lia_lia wrote: »

But you can't You could do a few years ago if you were on your 2nd provisional.
.

Ah ok my bad. As you'll see from my post I'm an old f@rt :pac:

So what's the story now if you show up and fail? Do they ask for you to be collected?

Pinch Flat

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah ok my bad. As you'll see from my post I'm an old f@rt :pac:

So what's the story now if you show up and fail? Do they ask for you to be collected?

No, they don't care. They tell you you failed and go onto their next victim. They're not the Gardai so they have no power/interest in you driving alone.

Gnenerally speaking they don't see you arrive or leave the centre anyway as theyre inside in offices or such and you'd be going into a reception area.

GreatDefector

Canadel wrote: »

Think whatever you like?

If the person is driving in line with the rules of the road then I'm really struggling to see what your problem here is.

So then if it doesn't matter what I think I ask what's the point in plates? They're there for us so why have them at all if you can't take them at face value

Jesus.

N plates are a joke.

RSA: We haven't done anything in a while so we'd better come up with something no matter how ridiculous so we can keep our jobs

Jesus.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Take a chance operating a potentially lethal high speed 1.5 tonne machine illegally and thereby risking all other road users who might be unfortunate enough to encounter you?

This attitude of entitlement is as dangerous as any potentially poorly educated and untested driver out there.

For a learner driving unaccompanied before they've past their test?

If you're over 30 you almost certainly did the very thing you're now saying is potentially lethal and condemning others as having a sense of entitlement.

9935452

Speedwell wrote: »

I've been an accident-free driver for 30-plus years, thanks. You are safer in the car with me than with any driver under the age of 45.

Thats a bold statement .
Are you saying you are the safest driver in ireland under the age of 45

The J Stands for Jay

duffman3833 wrote: »

So spend a fortune on taxi's which will eat up their wages. Also how are they meant to learn if no one is available to go with them. I just think it's a bit unfair, in some cases, especially country folk. If you live in middle of no where and need to get to work or college and you cant drive, how else you going to get there?

I would've expected you wouldn't have got the job in the first place.

CarrickMcJoe

Lia_lia wrote: »

But you can't You could do a few years ago if you were on your 2nd provisional.

After about a month leading up to my test I drove unaccompanied. Once I was comfortable driving. Was encouraged by most people to do it. My driving instructor was even like "shur the Gardai don't really care". And they don't. Not in Kerry/Cork anyway. Drove past them loads of times and never got stopped. Never heard of anyone I know being stopped for driving unaccompanied. Probably happens more often in Dublin where there tends to be more checkpoints..

Guards in Kerry won't bother you anyway, if they summons you, the Healy Rae's will 'sort it'.....:D

CarrickMcJoe

Jesus. wrote: »

N plates are a joke.

RSA: We haven't done anything in a while so we'd better come up with something no matter how ridiculous so we can keep our jobs

I agree with the plates but it's far too long. 6 month's maybe. What next, a P plate when you turn 65 to show you're a pensioner!

Henry Ford III

Jesus. wrote:

If you're over 30 you almost certainly did the very thing you're now saying is potentially lethal and condemning others as having a sense of entitlement.

You're wrong. I didn't. Not even once.

Jesus.

Fair enough. But you are probably the only one in the whole of Ireland who when learning didn't drive unaccompanied when there were no laws saying you couldn't.

Henry Ford III

Jesus. wrote:

Fair enough. But you are probably the only one in the whole of Ireland who when learning didn't drive unaccompanied when there were no laws saying you couldn't.

Who knows?

savagethegoat

Plenty of people will have obeyed the rules back in the day. My own Son for instance who I wouldn't let drive unaccompanied until he passed the test, and that was because I think everyone on the road needs to demonstrate they have met minimum training requirements before going out alone. It's not a game, driving is deadly serious.

mad m

my daughter is driving well over a year now. Got insurance through Aviva and lessons, 6 months free insurance and 12 lessons. After the lessons the instructor graded her as grade 3 I think, Once the instructor put her as grade 3 Aviva recognise her as a having a full driving license for insurance purposes even though she is provisional. If she was to have a tip I know for sure they wouldn't stand over it.

Anyway a mate of daughters got stopped and fined and penalty points. My daughter has a summer job and it would be great if she could drive to work but wont now because she is scared to. She is very competent driver and I would not see her having a problem getting her full license on June 26th (please god). We can see all sides of the argument here and they are very valid points, but if in the eyes of the insurer they believe her to have a full license surly something can be put in place that you can drive alone once you have done all the necessary lessons, but the law is the law.

Pinch Flat

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah ok my bad. As you'll see from my post I'm an old f@rt :pac:

So what's the story now if you show up and fail? Do they ask for you to be collected?

Ah they don't care anyway. Not their business how you get to and from the test centre. But going by the law it is illegal!

R.O.R

mad m wrote: »

surly something can be put in place that you can drive alone once you have done all the necessary lessons,

How about a simple test of competency, by a qualified individual - if you pass that, then you are OK to drive alone.

Could call it something snappy like a "Driving Test" ?

frozenfrozen

The only time I ever drove unaccompanied while on a provisional license was when I drove home after passing the test.

I do everything by the book in terms of driving in Ireland because I'm male, 20 years old, and have a permanent address. If I was caught doing anything wrong i'd be made an example of. I even have the N plates up now, if you can imagine that.

NiallBoo

R.O.R wrote: »

How about a simple test of competency, by a qualified individual - if you pass that, then you are OK to drive alone.

Could call it something snappy like a "Driving Test" ?

^This.
I think it's often forgotten just how basic the driving test is.

It's not to say you're a good driver, just that you meet the lowest possible standard where you're not a compete liability.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

The only time I ever drove unaccompanied while on a provisional license was when I drove home after passing the test.

You have a full driving license once you pass the test so you weren't driving on a provisional.

Wonzy

frozenfrozen wrote: »

The only time I ever drove unaccompanied while on a provisional license was when I drove home after passing the test.

I do everything by the book in terms of driving in Ireland because I'm male, 20 years old, and have a permanent address. If I was caught doing anything wrong i'd be made an example of. I even have the N plates up now, if you can imagine that.

People are going to chance it for 2 points and a 80 quid fine as no gaurds are on the roads and a lot still don't enforce it.

I bet most of the people has been dublin. No checkpoints anywhere else in the country outside the big cities.