PES 2017 - Thoughts & Discussion

ItsHoggie

Oat23 wrote: »

Konami have confirmed that the new game will have proper option files on PS4. You can share created teams/players via USB stick.

I hope they increase the image capacity too.

http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/pes-2017-option-file-sharing-confirmed-for-ps4/

They'd need it after losing the La Liga teams :pac:

Mec27

Pes 16 is a terrible game and only because of the finishing and the feeling that the players are ice skating around the pitch, really poor, annoying because it was so close to being a top game. Go one on one with the keeper and look how **** it looks when the ball literally floats into the net, that satisfying feeling of hitting the back of the net just is not there, it is something FIFA gets right. Also the opposition will only ever wack the ball bottom corner, it is the only goal they ever score against me, that variation is terrible and ruins the gameplay.

Lt Dan

astonaidan wrote: »

Im guessing you dont play NBA 2K or MLB the show cause they are ahead of PES. I echo what someone mentioned scoring a goal is very meh.

Surprised no one learned from NBA 2K and the Career mode. Despite the horrendous story line from Spike Lee last year, once you skip that, they still brought in some good new bits to the career mode. I frankly almost gave up on player soccer games for the last 3 seasons due to NBA game. Pes 2016 was good alright, but it still left me a little empty

Mec27

They need to make stats more important, I was playing today and you would not know the difference between playing with Barcelona, Belgium or Ireland, really poor.

AI needs more variation, they score the same goal every single time, awful. I love nothing more than conceding a goal which is original, I don't want to win every game, I just want organic, amazing matches. I'm done with the game because despite good points it has too much flaws.

Shooting and defenders are way overpowered in the game.

Nailz

Mec27 wrote: »

They need to make stats more important, I was playing today and you would not know the difference between playing with Barcelona, Belgium or Ireland, really poor.

That sounds like a completely different game to the one I'm playing. The distinction between the teams and also how their individual players vary is the thing that gives PES it's edge IMO.

I am forced to change my tactics and overall strategy every time I play the likes of Barcelona, Bayern, Arsenal, etc. because of how they play out their matches differently to how Real, Chelsea, United and others do. You can brush aside most smaller teams with a strong side, but they sometime force you into changing your gameplan and the style of your players just to break them down or to counteract tactics that they are deploying against you.

B_Sharp

Konami's announced that the 360, PS3 and PC versions of PES 2017 will be $20 cheaper than the 'current-gen' versions. While it's good for anyone still on 360 or PS3, it's ridiculous that the PC version is going to be a basic port off hardware that was out of date three years ago. Bought PES 2016 on PC because it was so much easier to update jerseys etc but this is probably going to make me go back to console. Konami are a joke really.

Mec27

Nailz wrote: »

That sounds like a completely different game to the one I'm playing. The distinction between the teams and also how their individual players vary is the thing that gives PES it's edge IMO.

I am forced to change my tactics and overall strategy every time I play the likes of Barcelona, Bayern, Arsenal, etc. because of how they play out their matches differently to how Real, Chelsea, United and others do. You can brush aside most smaller teams with a strong side, but they sometime force you into changing your gameplan and the style of your players just to break them down or to counteract tactics that they are deploying against you.

The variation is horrible. Whether I am playing Haiti, Ireland or Germany, their midfielder be it one from Haiti, James McCarthy or Toni Kroos will score the same thunderbolt again and again and again. A low hit bottom corner thunder bolt, I have not conceded one top corner goal vs the computer in my 7 months playing the game.

Pickpocket

Mec27 wrote: »

Pes 16 is a terrible game and only because of the finishing and the feeling that the players are ice skating around the pitch, really poor, annoying because it was so close to being a top game. Go one on one with the keeper and look how **** it looks when the ball literally floats into the net, that satisfying feeling of hitting the back of the net just is not there, it is something FIFA gets right. Also the opposition will only ever wack the ball bottom corner, it is the only goal they ever score against me, that variation is terrible and ruins the gameplay.

Can a game that is so close to being a top game actually be a terrible game? You're either being too generous or too harsh.

Mec27

Yeah because it is unplayable due to the poor shooting and AI

Nailz

Mec27 wrote: »

The variation is horrible. Whether I am playing Haiti, Ireland or Germany, their midfielder be it one from Haiti, James McCarthy or Toni Kroos will score the same thunderbolt again and again and again. A low hit bottom corner thunder bolt, I have not conceded one top corner goal vs the computer in my 7 months playing the game.

That's fair enough, but all of that has been far from my experience with the game. As I have said before, the reason why I came back to Pro Evo this year is because of its far superior match variety to FIFA, as well as its tactical accuracy, player individuality, how team systems matter on a variety of levels.

Mec27 wrote: »

Yeah because it is unplayable due to the poor shooting and AI

I don't understand the criticism of either of those aspects of PES, especially not AI. In terms of shooting, I would attribute you perception to how poor the goalkeeping is, the shooting is pretty much as any player would want it to be otherwise. The terrible range of the goalkeeping makes it seem like the shooting is overpowered.

whiskeyman

Mec27 wrote: »

Pes 2016 was very very poor, but tbh I think I wouldn't even enjoy pes 6 anymore. Fifa 13 was the best football game imo.

For me, PES2016 was the best yet.
Having played PES since the very start, I drifted after PES06.
But PES2016 finally rekindled the magic of the game for me.
I find pretty much everything perfect to give a wonderful soccer experience... shooting / passing / animations / keeping.... it all leads for so many different moments.
I honestly am worried with PES2017 as I hope they don't change it too much!
When you play a fully patched PES2016, it's very hard to spot anything wrong.

I'll admit I did swap over to FIFA around the 12/13/14 years, but they look very very poor now against 2016.

(I play all offline... not bothered with online play).

GavRedKing

I've ordered PES2017 for the first time since I last bought 2012 on the PS3. The GF got me FIFA15 but honestly, I wasnt a huge fan of it, hoping PES2017 rewkindles some of the magic from the older PES series.

Mec27

Nailz wrote: »

That's fair enough, but all of that has been far from my experience with the game. As I have said before, the reason why I came back to Pro Evo this year is because of its far superior match variety to FIFA, as well as its tactical accuracy, player individuality, how team systems matter on a variety of levels.
I don't understand the criticism of either of those aspects of PES, especially not AI. In terms of shooting, I would attribute you perception to how poor the goalkeeping is, the shooting is pretty much as any player would want it to be otherwise. The terrible range of the goalkeeping makes it seem like the shooting is overpowered.

So are you telling me you don't notice 9/10 goals from the AI hit the bottom corner of the goalies far post.

whiskeyman

Mec27 wrote: »

So are you telling me you don't notice 9/10 goals from the AI hit the bottom corner of the goalies far post.

Not for me.
I've had all sorts of goals scored against me from the AI.
long rangers... headers.... volleys... precision lobs... Some of them I had to save they were so sublime!

Mec27

record them, honestly please.

tigger123

Am playing the ML in Pes 2016 and am finding the Youth system too over powered. I never really have to venture into the transfer market as the players coming through are all awesome. Hopefully its addressed in 2017.

Nailz

tigger123 wrote: »

Am playing the ML in Pes 2016 and am finding the Youth system too over powered. I never really have to venture into the transfer market as the players coming through are all awesome. Hopefully its addressed in 2017.

It really is, I too hope it's addressed because otherwise ML will just get boring after the first 3 or 4 seasons. ML at the start really is enthralling and challenging, the team usually need a fair bit of rebuilding and their team spirit is just dire, causing you to lose to lesser opposition on many occasions unless you're able to counteract it itself.
But then it loses it challenge once the 76 rated 16 year old versions of Totti and John Terry start coming through, and your team has gelled together and is very familiar with your desired system.

This aspect of ML really needs a shake up to keep the player on their toes. Like encouraging long-term periods of stability and domination is good, and all top clubs experience it, especially the likes of Barca, Man Utd, Real Madrid, Bayern and Juve, but there doesn't seem to be anything to knock you back on your arse and force you to rebuild. You are able to rely on a full team of 18-25 year olds and win the treble year after year as the squad's quality never depletes, a new youth system with more realistic ratings, as well as shaking up the ratings of regenned 'retired' players would really do ML the world of good.

I actually had written a post in the PES 2016 thread regarding the strength of the retired players coming through the youth system. I've it quoted in below.

Nailz wrote: »

Do any of you lads think that the re-gens of the retired players in Master League give your teams far too much of a leg up from the word go?

Like I'm half way into my 6th ML season; I spent the first 5 with United (the default ML squad) and started dominating the league and Europe through a combination of tactical purchasing and promotions from the youth team. For my 6th season I decided to move over to Espanyol for a bit of a challenge and also to experience a different league, seeing how I would fair in La Liga with the big 3 still maintaining their oligopoly over Spanish soccer.

As expected with crap team spirit and an aging team with very few decent young players I struggled for the first 6 or 7 games, the transfer budget and the initial youth squad picks weren't great either. I had a packed squad as well with too many players over 30, so my first priority was to ship out those of which I did not deem necessary and give me some budget to play with, but most didn't go until the January transfer window.

I knew I would rely a good bit on the retired re-gens to rebuild the squad but I didn't think I would to the extent I did! After all the selling I was left with €55 million to spend and I hardly touched it because I was able to bring up the following players from the youth team:

Per Mertesacker
Francesco Totti
Franck Ribery (16 y.o free agent transfer)
Luca Toni
Tiago
Fernandinho

That's in addition to a re-gen of Tim Cahill I bought from United in the summer, and summer re-gens of Claudio Pizarro and Sergei Ignashevich.
Now about 30 games into La Liga I'm sitting 3 points above Atletico in 3rd, and 6/7 points behind Barca and Real respectively, and I'm almost guaranteed a CL position.

That's all great like, I'm enjoying the prospect of being back in the CL but I think these re-gens just take the challenge out of it, they are just too good. I think there probably should be a better way of regulating their distribution across teams in ML. I wouldn't mind but those players are only at 81-74 rating at the moment, and they're going to get a lot better very quick!

tigger123

Nailz wrote: »

It really is, I too hope it's addressed because otherwise ML will just get boring after the first 3 or 4 seasons. ML at the start really is enthralling and challenging, the team usually need a fair bit of rebuilding and their team spirit is just dire, causing you to lose to lesser opposition on many occasions unless you're able to counteract it itself.
But then it loses it challenge once the 76 rated 16 year old versions of Totti and John Terry start coming through, and your team has gelled together and is very familiar with your desired system.

This aspect of ML really needs a shake up to keep the player on their toes. Like encouraging long-term periods of stability and domination is good, and all top clubs experience it, especially the likes of Barca, Man Utd, Real Madrid, Bayern and Juve, but there doesn't seem to be anything to knock you back on your arse and force you to rebuild. You are able to rely on a full team of 18-25 year olds and win the treble year after year as the squad's quality never depletes, a new youth system with more realistic ratings, as well as shaking up the ratings of regenned 'retired' players would really do ML the world of good.

I actually had written a post in the PES 2016 thread regarding the strength of the retired players coming through the youth system. I've it quoted in below.

Yep, totally agree. I think it would add another layer of a challenge into the ML that's lacking at the moment. But it is literally the only thing that it lacks, the rest of it is really fantastic.

I can't help but feel that Konami are purposefully keeping it a little underdeveloped to steer people towards MyClub and micro transactions.

IncognitoMan

The transfer system in ML needs a huge reform as well. It's far far too easy to buy the really good players. I think I could have bought Hazard from Chelsea this year for something crazy low like 28m and that was playing as man utd who should realistically have to pay more seeing as its a direct rival. In real life that money gets you yannick bolasie not eden hazard

Currently doing a play through as Valencia using the master league originals as I waste time for the next month.

ERG89

Looks like PES got the Liverpool licence now, even the screen shot says that the redeveloped anfield will be available in a post launch data pack. Even good news with PES has its caveat. While I fully expect Liverpool in the game this year's rivalry seems to be about what they can take from each other.

tigger123

Is there any mention of a stadium editor? It was included a few versions ago (2012/13?) and allowed people to re-create stadiums and (more importantly) download them.

Exclamation Marc

Borussia Dortmund license announced along with Schalke and Leverkusen but looks like Bayern have been lost.

Playable demo available from North American store on 23rd and all other regions on the 24th.

Licenses probably don't mean too much anymore given that PS4 users can share option files and the kit makers these days are top notch.

Colemania

Manufactured Miracle wrote: »

Borussia Dortmund license announced along with Schalke and Leverkusen but looks like Bayern have been lost.

Playable demo available from North American store on 23rd and all other regions on the 24th.

Licenses probably don't mean too much anymore given that PS4 users can share option files and the kit makers these days are top notch.

La Liga license lost too it seems. Only barca and atletico madrid licensed according to the official Pro Evo website

Nailz

Manufactured Miracle wrote: »

Borussia Dortmund license announced along with Schalke and Leverkusen but looks like Bayern have been lost.

Playable demo available from North American store on 23rd and all other regions on the 24th.

Licenses probably don't mean too much anymore given that PS4 users can share option files and the kit makers these days are top notch.

Hopefully the German clubs actually have a proper stand-in league though, so there'd be less hassle in terms of switching teams around and editing players. Not that it matters as there are shareable option/edit files now on the PS4, but it'd still mean there's less bull**** involve in including their league in Master League.

tigger123 wrote: »

Is there any mention of a stadium editor? It was included a few versions ago (2012/13?) and allowed people to re-create stadiums and (more importantly) download them.

I would love for that to be included. It'd make all the difference to the playing experience within Master League, playing mostly in unique stadiums for each different match, as opposed to rotating between Rose Park Stadium and KONAMI Stadium all the time.

At the bottom of theLicensing & Product Information page on the PES/WE website, it states "PES 2017 allows you to freely customize your team, players, and stadiums in edit mode!". That could be a good sign, but I would imagine that it is just the ability to change the name of the stadium depending on the team and the colour of the net like we've seen in 2016.

Colemania

Nailz wrote: »

Hopefully the German clubs actually have a proper stand-in league though, so there'd be less hassle in terms of switching teams around and editing players. Not that it matters as there are shareable option/edit files now on the PS4, but it'd still mean there's less bull**** involve in including their league in Master League.

There's a confirmed list of the teams on the pro evo website here: https://www.konami.com/wepes/2017/eu/en/license/

No German league....

tigger123

I actually didn't mind the editing in PES 2016 all that much; you're left with a fully licensed game at the end of it, which really helps with the immersion in ML. I edited each stadium name, rivalries, managers, nets, crowd signs and even the grass design. I'm such a f*ckin anorak when it comes to PES. Great to know that it will be downloadable this time

I'd say a full on stadium editor mode would be signalled more clearly if it did exist. The stadium editing options sound fairly rudimentary to me.

Exclamation Marc

One thing to note is that if a team is licensed its uneditable so you can't change kits or add a classic kit or even change the manager name.

Sometimes being unlicensed is better when you have the facility to edit what you want in to it (and have great communities to put together option files)

Exclamation Marc

It's down to just under €40 on PS4 (and all other consoles) on The Game Collection today and tomorrow til midnight with the code "GOLDENBOOT".

Absolute bargain.

EDIT: Fixed price.

Colemania

Manufactured Miracle wrote: »

It's down to €38.50 on PS4 (and all other consoles) on The Game Collection today and tomorrow til midnight with the code "GOLDENBOOT".

Absolute bargain.

I know they're supposed to be generally good for delivery but I ordered PES 2016 from them last year and it didn't get shipped out on the week of release so I cancelled the order and bought it digitally. If you're willing to wait for it, it's a great offer anyway and the likelihood is that if it's late, it shouldn't be more than a day late this year.

I can't believe the amount of licenses they lost this year. Only 2 teams in la liga, so Real Madrid not licensed, Porto aren't licensed and supposedly Bayern Munich aren't even in the game! Wouldn't be such an issue if I was on ps4 with the option files and all but i'm on Xbox so no chance of an option file!

In saying that, I've seen some of the gameplay videos and it looks amazing. Love the little flick passes and the ease that a player can turn and react. I saw one video where griezmann tried to lob the keeper by flicking it up with the outside of his foot. Something you might see Ronaldinho or Neymar try.

Can't wait for demo next week!

Fifa 17 should be interesting also. Fifa 16 was an absolutely shocking game but it seems like they've had a major overhaul this year with this new frostbite engine. Ultimate team looks even better also so that just means more cash generated from it once again.

I don't think myclub or any mode on pro evo will ever be a fraction as profitable as ultimate team has been but they need something to bring the fifa fan boys over to pro evo so as to keep the momentum going. They said recently that they invested in exclusive licenses for barca, dortmund and Liverpool after biding their time and waiting for Pro Evo to become profitable. It could turn out to be a big risk with fifa, presumably, taking the exclusive license for la liga and other big teams and leagues.

Anyway, enough of that ramble. Hopefully we have 2 good soccer games for once, but I'm hoping pro evo comes out on top

IncognitoMan

I honestly think pes should not bother spending money on licenses and that. Instead put the resources into giving the community more customization options and improving MyClub. It's not a big job to fix the jerseys so it doesn't bother me in any way that they have Barcelona fully licensed.

Also they should really help get the guys on Xbox some way of getting in real jerseys and the likes. I'm sure Xbox sales would be fairly decent.

Fan made stadiums need to make a return and need to actually have some decent options to build stadiums that aren't in the game.