The future of James Bond

BuilderPlumber

The thing about early Bond films is that race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. counted for little. We all knew Bond was a British heterosexual agent whose weakness was girls. After that, it really didn't matter what the other characters were. We are never told much about M & Q for example. The villains by and large showed no sexual orientation at all often. Goldfinger seemed to only love gold and used a woman to be seen with but that was it, Grant was 100% dedicated to his mission, Dr No was the same. Largo had a girlfriend but she became Bond's one instead. It is implied Irma Bunt may be Blofeld's girlfriend but it is not elaborated on. Mr Wint and Mr Kidd are one clear gay couple in the series and if Diamonds Are Forever was made today, I am unsure if PC would allow gay villains. Kananga like earlier villains had a throwaway girlfriend he used and abused, as did Scaramanga. Stromberg and Drax seemed to be the obsessive types too dedicated to their plans to have a girlfriend. Interestingly, a girlfriend made Jaws become good and we get the rare happy ending for henchmen.

The relationships got interesting then after that. Kristatos seemed to have a creepy uncle type relationship with a girl he could be the father of. Kamal Khan and Octopussy may or may not have had a relationship outside of business. Zorin and Mayday was a rare example of a fullblown relationship between characters as was Koskov and Kara. In both cases, the villain did not care much for them. Sanchez and Trevelyan showed no signs of being in any relationships. Relationships featured more and more in subsequent films. Carver and his wife are an important part of Tomorrow Never Dies and once more, Carver puts his mission before his wife who he has killed. The 2 main villains in The World Is Not Enough are a powerful woman who can control a besotted terminally ill ex terrorist. Their relationship is key to the story. Graves in Die Another Day seems to have a relationship of sorts with an ex agent.

The Craig films are full of confused relationships like Bond and Vesper, Greene and the girl in Quantum of Solace and the personal obsessions of the villains of Skyfall and SPECTRE. Everything so far has been mostly heterosexual but most villains seem to be uncaring when it came to their women apart from Renard

BuilderPlumber

Harry Palmr wrote: »

That wasn't voluntary! It was a legal dispute. But yes the rest was actually a good thing. People had the chance to forget 007 somewhat and then rediscover it in a slight altered renewed form.

I like the idea of going back in time - dare I say an origins story (hate the very term!) would actually be completely justified with the first post Craig bond that story would have to be set in WW2 and go from there. That would be quite a step change for the series.

Fleming's Bond of course was a WW2 veteran. One could go back and explore this by having Bond dealing with Nazi villains. Then, it may look too like Indiana Jones though perhaps. Book Bond and film Bond are different ages. Book Bond would be at least born in 1927 whereas 1962-2002 film Bond may be born a lot later. 2006- film Bond of course was born around the 1960s or 1970s. In a modern setting, Bond's war would be Iraq.

Harry Palmr

His official age in the Fleming books was 37. Casino Royale was in 1953 so 1943 as a spook he'd be 27 which would be just about perfect. Main problem would be finding an actor of that approximate age who would have the presence to carry the role.

Always Be Closing

Tom Hiddleston is a future Bond

branie2

He's done a very good job so far as Bond

SimonTemplar

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The thing about early Bond films is that race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. counted for little. We all knew Bond was a British heterosexual agent whose weakness was girls. After that, it really didn't matter what the other characters were. We are never told much about M & Q for example. The villains by and large showed no sexual orientation at all often. Goldfinger seemed to only love gold and used a woman to be seen with but that was it, Grant was 100% dedicated to his mission, Dr No was the same. Largo had a girlfriend but she became Bond's one instead. It is implied Irma Bunt may be Blofeld's girlfriend but it is not elaborated on. Mr Wint and Mr Kidd are one clear gay couple in the series and if Diamonds Are Forever was made today, I am unsure if PC would allow gay villains. Kananga like earlier villains had a throwaway girlfriend he used and abused, as did Scaramanga. Stromberg and Drax seemed to be the obsessive types too dedicated to their plans to have a girlfriend. Interestingly, a girlfriend made Jaws become good and we get the rare happy ending for henchmen.

The relationships got interesting then after that. Kristatos seemed to have a creepy uncle type relationship with a girl he could be the father of. Kamal Khan and Octopussy may or may not have had a relationship outside of business. Zorin and Mayday was a rare example of a fullblown relationship between characters as was Koskov and Kara. In both cases, the villain did not care much for them. Sanchez and Trevelyan showed no signs of being in any relationships. Relationships featured more and more in subsequent films. Carver and his wife are an important part of Tomorrow Never Dies and once more, Carver puts his mission before his wife who he has killed. The 2 main villains in The World Is Not Enough are a powerful woman who can control a besotted terminally ill ex terrorist. Their relationship is key to the story. Graves in Die Another Day seems to have a relationship of sorts with an ex agent.

The Craig films are full of confused relationships like Bond and Vesper, Greene and the girl in Quantum of Solace and the personal obsessions of the villains of Skyfall and SPECTRE. Everything so far has been mostly heterosexual but most villains seem to be uncaring when it came to their women apart from Renard

Wasn't Sanchez in a relationship with Lupe?

BuilderPlumber

Harry Palmr wrote: »

His official age in the Fleming books was 37. Casino Royale was in 1953 so 1943 as a spook he'd be 27 which would be just about perfect. Main problem would be finding an actor of that approximate age who would have the presence to carry the role.

This would be an interesting concept for a film. In each of the early films, something new was brought to them each time. As the series went along, You could see the borrowings from previous films more and more. The fundamental elements of Goldfinger, Thunderball, You Only Live Twice and Diamonds Are Forever have been used numerous times. At the moment, the series seems to be caught in a loop of overly personalised storylines. The next film will be some kind of an On Her Majesty's Secret Service remake.

The next 3 films could proceed as follows. Blofeld busts out of prison and has an evil plan. Bond stops him but he escapes. Bond marries and Blofeld kills Bond's wife. Next film, Bond gets revenge and thinks he has killed Blofeld. Bond is assigned on another mission only to find his new enemy, a Donald Trump type businessman, is actually Blofeld who has the businessman kidnapped. Blofeld's lair is destroyed and his plot foiled but it is left to the imagination if Blofeld is killed or not. He may be returning. Let's say then they take a break from Blofeld and all that and in the next film, Bond goes up against a drug dealer and third world dictator and he finds out they are the same person.

branie2

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

This would be an interesting concept for a film. In each of the early films, something new was brought to them each time. As the series went along, You could see the borrowings from previous films more and more. The fundamental elements of Goldfinger, Thunderball, You Only Live Twice and Diamonds Are Forever have been used numerous times. At the moment, the series seems to be caught in a loop of overly personalised storylines. The next film will be some kind of an On Her Majesty's Secret Service remake.

The next 3 films could proceed as follows. Blofeld busts out of prison and has an evil plan. Bond stops him but he escapes. Bond marries and Blofeld kills Bond's wife. Next film, Bond gets revenge and thinks he has killed Blofeld. Bond is assigned on another mission only to find his new enemy, a Donald Trump type businessman, is actually Blofeld who has the businessman kidnapped. Blofeld's lair is destroyed and his plot foiled but it is left to the imagination if Blofeld is killed or not. He may be returning. Let's say then they take a break from Blofeld and all that and in the next film, Bond goes up against a drug dealer and third world dictator and he finds out they are the same person.

Drug dealer and third world dictator? That's the plot of Live and Let Die!

BuilderPlumber

branie2 wrote: »

Drug dealer and third world dictator? That's the plot of Live and Let Die!

Exactly! That's what the paragraph implies. It describes the plots of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Diamonds Are Forever and Live and Let Die. Let's hope the series does not go down the remakes route.

SimonTemplar

Christoph Waltz won't be back in the next Bond film so I presume we'll have another stand alone villain.

Shame, I thought they kept him alive at the end of Spectre specifically so he would return.

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/james-bond-007/news/a841811/christoph-waltz-james-bond-25-return/

Sad Professor

Waltz implies that the role is being re-cast.

BuilderPlumber

Sad Professor wrote: »

Waltz implies that the role is being re-cast.

In the early (and better) version of Blofeld, he was played by 3 different actors (Donald Pleasance, Telly Savalas, Charles Gray) in the films he was he made villain in and was played by others in the minor roles he was in other films. I feel Blofeld will be in a few more but if so I think it is time to have a real villain similar to the older Bonds in the next film. Blofeld was one of the classic villains of the older films and sadly his backstory was ruined in the last film.

BuilderPlumber

Another thing that has to show up in a Bond film is some sort of a plot to take over the government of a Western power. Influenced by news/fake news about Donald Trump and other real/not so real events but it would also be a variant of themes from Tomorrow Never Dies and SPECTRE too. As well as Hitman (2007).

BuilderPlumber

I heard that Blofeld will most certainly be back but maybe not in the next film and probably played by different actors. He will be back because Bond really is about SPECTRE and Blofeld. You could say Blofeld dominated the Bond films especially early on and SPECTRE was the main enemy in the early films. SPECTRE was based on Fleming's two organisations SPECTRE and SMERSH from the books. The early Bond villains were mostly named as SPECTRE members, Dr No, Grant, Klebb and Largo being them. Blofeld was often seen briefly but became the main enemy in 3 films. Goldfinger had the same relationship with China as SPECTRE so I'd say Goldfinger was some SPECTRE associate too albeit maybe not a member. Diamonds Are Forever ended officially the original Blofeld era and was the last film to have him as the main enemy until Craig. SPECTRE and Blofeld had no major countries backing them by then it is clear to see but would still need places to launder money and also countries may retain ex SPECTRE people for their own uses later. Though not referenced, San Monique would be such a place and it would make sense SPECTRE would use this dictatorship. Kananga/Mr Big would surely have had relations with SPECTRE. Scaramanga was based out of China and while the film notes him as a former KGB agent gone rogue, it is likely he was also employed by SPECTRE at some point and retained by the Chinese as useful.

At this point, it was originally planned to actually bring Blofeld back but legalities meant we got Stromberg instead. Stromberg was a similar guy but motivated not by extortion but by creating a new world. I get the feeling Stromberg was not involved in crime until the plot in the film. Drax was a similar type with similar plans. While these films had 2 refined and evil villains like Blofeld, the only possible SPECTRE agent in them would be Jaws. Jaws has a fearsome reputation and it is hard to believe SPECTRE did not use him. But because there is good in him, he may have turned them down. Stromberg and Drax were afterall not known as criminals and probably hid it well until these 2 films' plots. Kristatos most certainly was involved with SPECTRE as he was involved with rogue ex KGB agents and that Belgian drug dealer. Blofeld himself makes an appearance at the start of this film but that part is not related to the rest of the film's story. May or may not have associations with SPECTRE. Kamal Khan, Orlov, Koskov and Zorin all appear to be rogue KGB operatives. The octopus symbol used by Kamal Khan though is similar to SPECTRE's symbol. Also John Gardner's books has SPECTRE lead by a similar Middle Eastern operative. One guy who would have dealt with SPECTRE is Whitaker. Arms dealer and involved with major criminal organisations is what the good Russian Pushkin says of him. SPECTRE would have to be one of them. Sanchez was a Colombian drug dealer pure and simple and all remnants of SPECTRE were in the past by this stage. 3 Brosnan films featured villains that would have grown up post-Blofeld/SPECTRE and were more Russian mafia types, veterans of the Yugoslav wars, a crazy media mogul and so on. BUT Brosnan's last film featured North Koreans as the villains. Goldfinger's allies. It is implied this country could have had links to SPECTRE but years prior to this film.

The desire to use SPECTRE and Blofeld again was always there but delayed by legal disputes. Moore, Dalton and Brosnan all could have had films featuring him if things worked out different. The early Craig films introduce a shadowy organisation unnamed in his first and named as Quantum in the second. We are lead to believe it is run by Mr White and includes operatives like Le Chiffre, Greene and a Latin American dictator. We are lead to believe Skyfall is a separate story until SPECTRE and Blofeld are introduced in the last film and all the other 3 Craig films' events relate to him.

A rival series of Bond films was mooted for a time too. One unofficial Bond did emerge called Never Say Never Again and of course featured SPECTRE. Apart from a deplorable 1960s spoof, this was the only other Bond film made outside the official Eon. A rival series was to include followups to NSNA and there were talks of featuring Dalton and Brosnan among others. Often, they amounted to remakes of Thunderball and the like and would presumably feature SPECTRE. NSNA is basically a remake of Thunderball albeit a liberal interpretation. I wonder what would have happened if 2 rival Bond series did come about.

dastardly00

Wedwood wrote: »

Watched the much derided A View to a Kill the other night, as it's a nostalgic movie we originally saw in the cinema on holidays back in 1985.

The actual story is secondary to Roger Moore going through his Bond repotoire one final time. The film was originally marketed as Moore's final Bond and I think the slower pace of the movie actually works given Moore was 57 at the time. Also, John Barry's excellent soundtrack is actually rather melancholic and fits perfectly into the sense that this movie is the end of an era.

If you watch the movie from this perspective, then there is a lot of enjoyment to be had from A View to a Kill.

It's a bit like those more recent movies where older actors revisited their signature roles even though they are really too old for them, i.e. Stallone doing Rocky Balboa/Rambo, Swarzenegger doing Terminator and Ford doing Han Solo/Indiana Jones.

We know they're too old, but we just ignore it in favour of the pleasure of seeing them in those roles on the big screen again.

I think there is still a lot to like in A View to a Kill.
Zorin was a good villain & May Day was a good henchmanwoman. Duran Duran's title song. Action scenes on the Eiffel Tower and Golden Gate Bridge.

branie2

On a bit of a sad note, Karin Dor, who played Bond villianess Helga Brandt in You Only Live Twice, died this week :-(

BuilderPlumber

Imagine if John Waters wrote and directed a Bond film. It would have the following characteristics:

Title: The Hour of the Church.

James Bond works with the Iona Institute to uncover a plot to exterminate Catholics and launch an attack on the Vatican.
Settings: Boyle, Castlerea, Carrick on Shannon and Dromod, Co. Roscommon, Rome, Dublin.
Villain: a gay man who dresses as a woman.
Highlight: a boat chase on the Shannon in Roscommon.
Unique trait: contains a full Latin mass.

Catholic homophobic Bond? One sure way of ruining the franchise!

branie2

Who would the Bond Girl be?

BuilderPlumber

dastardly00 wrote: »

I think there is still a lot to like in A View to a Kill.
Zorin was a good villain & May Day was a good henchmanwoman. Duran Duran's title song. Action scenes on the Eiffel Tower and Golden Gate Bridge.

I agree 100%. I feel A View To A Kill is a very good Bond film and very underrated. Overall, the film is quite serious and we get some great action scenes like the pretitle, the Eiffel tower and Golden Gate bridge. Zorin is one of if not the best villains of all. One gets the feeling with Zorin that he is crazier than any of the other villains and will go to lengths the others would stop short of to achieve his evil. Parts of Zorin influenced the viciousness of later villain Franz Sanchez and the craziness of another later villain Elliot Carver.

Films of this time felt like real Bond films. On the other hand, SPECTRE didn't the more I look at it. I feel the lack of a strong villain with a definite plot to do a lot of damage is what films like SPECTRE lack. It would be great to see a villain like Zorin again. Look at the 1980s villains: Kristatos, Kamal Khan, Zorin, Brad Whitaker and Sanchez: all different, all convincing and all memorable. I think the modern Bond films could learn a lot from the 1980s films.

Dr Brown

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I agree 100%. I feel A View To A Kill is a very good Bond film and very underrated. Overall, the film is quite serious and we get some great action scenes like the pretitle, the Eiffel tower and Golden Gate bridge. Zorin is one of if not the best villains of all. One gets the feeling with Zorin that he is crazier than any of the other villains and will go to lengths the others would stop short of to achieve his evil. Parts of Zorin influenced the viciousness of later villain Franz Sanchez and the craziness of another later villain Elliot Carver.

Films of this time felt like real Bond films. On the other hand, SPECTRE didn't the more I look at it. I feel the lack of a strong villain with a definite plot to do a lot of damage is what films like SPECTRE lack. It would be great to see a villain like Zorin again. Look at the 1980s villains: Kristatos, Kamal Khan, Zorin, Brad Whitaker and Sanchez: all different, all convincing and all memorable. I think the modern Bond films could learn a lot from the 1980s films.

The main problem with a view to a kill is that roger moore is way over the hill.

One of the bond girls might aswell be his daughter.

Cork Boy 53

Dr Brown wrote: »

The main problem with a view to a kill is that roger moore is way over the hill.

One of the bond girls might aswell be his daughter.

She wasn`t what would be considered a Bond Girl. but Roger Moore`s daughter did appear in a later film, Die Another Day IIRC.

BuilderPlumber

Dr Brown wrote: »

The main problem with a view to a kill is that roger moore is way over the hill.

One of the bond girls might aswell be his daughter.

Interestingly Roger Moore was both the oldest actor to begin playing Bond and the oldest actor to finish playing Bond. Clearly he is a good deal older than the love interests in For Your Eyes Only, Octopussy, A View To a Kill and arguably even his earlier ones.

JohnBoy26

I did not find quantum of solace enjoyable at all and to a lesser extent skyfall as well. Casino royal wasn't bad and spectre is the best of the craig bond films imo but I don't care for the bourne theme that much.

I still would rather the older bond films from the connery/moore era and even timothy dalton's first bond film isn't bad either, nor is golden eye with pierce brosnan.

BuilderPlumber

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I did not find quantum of solace enjoyable at all and to a lesser extent skyfall as well. Casino royal wasn't bad and spectre is the best of the craig bond films imo but I don't care for the bourne theme that much.

I still would rather the older bond films from the connery/moore era and even timothy dalton's first bond film isn't bad either, nor is golden eye with pierce brosnan.

I think Quantum is good but way too short. Other issues I have with it are rather annoying production such as the fight in Italy where we see Bond and the Quantum man fighting and then scenes of horses racing on the street which was unnecessary to show interchangeably with the fight. Then, the villain controlling water was something that works much better in Mad Max than in Bond.

I like Skyfall but that does not mean it is perfect. I thought it started rather slow and the first hour or so is draggy. The second half is excellent imo. SPECTRE for me left a mixed legacy. Blofeld was a total letdown and more inspired by the Skyfall villain than the real Blofeld. The climax was below par too and everything about it went against how the real Blofeld would operate (there's no way the real Blofeld would be at large in the middle of London for example and he'd have a big army with him.

The old Bonds are classics and while the first Connery films have universal praise, there is a tendency to underrate the later Connery films, Lazenby's film and Moore's ones. Dalton's The Living Daylights is excellent and was able to balance an updated approach with maintaining all that went before. Goldeneye from Brosnan did much the same.

Another thing with the earlier Bonds. They generally were standalone and could be watched in any order. Some of them referenced earlier events such as Tracy's death or Dr No's death for example but that was it. Some characters spanned more than one film, Blofeld, JW Pepper, Jaws, Gogol, etc. But no storylines spanned 2 films. With Craig's films, all that changed. His second is a sequel to his first and SPECTRE is a sequel to all his previous 3.

Interestingly, I heard one time there were plans to reuse earlier characters in A View To A Kill. Maud Adams was supposed to have had a role, presumably as Octopussy and XXX from The Spy Who Loved Me was due to be in it. The part played by Pola Ivanova is probably the replacement of that? If this went ahead, I'd imagine though it would not link into a past film story though.

BuilderPlumber

Next Bond film should be about a businessman who owes an evil organised crime syndicate billions and is forced to run for president of a powerful superpower and destroy that superpower and cause chaos in the world. Bond has to get into the palace of this president and escort him out of that nation and get him to talk. Then, Bond has to go after those the president has been forced to front for. Actually, that is not a Bond film but is sadly real. I just hope Bond is real as well and can stop this!

BuilderPlumber

Latest rumour is one of One Direction as Bond! Yes, true! I am unsure how that would work out though. Would he have the right acting ability or would he be too young? Would this be a watered down Bond akin to the watered down music boybands sing. I feel a sensible dependable actor like Tom Hardy should follow Daniel Craig. It should not be a reboot either. It was necessary to reboot Bond in 2006 but not every time an actor changes.

FunLover18

Harry Styles was very good in Dunkirk but it was a small role, he hardly carried the film which he would have to do as Bond. He's also way too young.

Agent Coulson

James Bond Junior live action.

Agricola

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Latest rumour is one of One Direction as Bond! Yes, true! I am unsure how that would work out though. Would he have the right acting ability or would he be too young? Would this be a watered down Bond akin to the watered down music boybands sing. I feel a sensible dependable actor like Tom Hardy should follow Daniel Craig. It should not be a reboot either. It was necessary to reboot Bond in 2006 but not every time an actor changes.

Not a hope would they cast him. He's too young and too boyish and slight. Hardy would be a great choice. Has that simmering lunatic vibe, would bring tons of physicality which is the name of the game for modern Bond and he could definitely carry a film.

RVD420

Has April Fools Day come early?! Harry Styles as James Bond. Who'll be cast as the villain - Justin Bieber?!