Charger installed in work

steelboots

After buying a new Leaf I asked if a charging point could be installed, as some times I would need a boost if I had extra trucking around to evening football/Gaa//kids music etc.... it would save me time. As the company I work with lease the building it was the landlord who obliged and agreed to install one to my surprise and delight.

However I got an e-mail today informing me it was installed, and tokens were available at a cost of 3 for a 2 hour charge. Now I have the 6kw charger so as far as I understand I will get approx 14 kw, but if you don't have that piece of kit you will only get approx 7 kw. Also the charging point was put in an awkward spot and hidden away. Its disappointing that its going to cost substantially more to charge than at home and especially if you don't have the 6kw charger, and this could have been a good news story promoting more EVs, rather that what looks like a tick box exercise.

The company I work for is a US multinational and its a sizable campus, not some fly by night.

I'm just wondering what other EV owners work facilities are, and I have heard of some companies providing multiple charging points with free charging. One in Limerick & one in Cork.

slicedpanman

I work in Raheen in Limerick... Dell have 6 free charge points for cars (nice for me ) and Analog look like they have about 10-12 charge points - no idea though if they are free or paid for

sgalvin

Great to see a charging point being put in.

As you said yourself this to for ocassional use use and on those ocassional being able to top up for the price of a cup of coffee is a great facility to have without any ongoing cost. A granny lead will buy you lots of tokens.

The overall installation for a single car for a commercial installation with all the health and safety and particular site standards of a multinational will be thousands. The landlord is not making any money on it. I am surprised there isn't a more of a visual impact made of it but having the charge point out of they way at bit prevents it getting iced.

As a costing model it is reasonable, flexible, nice and simple, ESB should take note!

steelboots wrote: »

After buying a new Leaf I asked if a charging point could be installed, as some times I would need a boost if I had extra trucking around to evening football/Gaa//kids music etc.... it would save me time. As the company I work with lease the building it was the landlord who obliged and agreed to install one to my surprise and delight.

However I got an e-mail today informing me it was installed, and tokens were available at a cost of 3 for a 2 hour charge. Now I have the 6kw charger so as far as I understand I will get approx 14 kw, but if you don't have that piece of kit you will only get approx 7 kw. Also the charging point was put in an awkward spot and hidden away. Its disappointing that its going to cost substantially more to charge than at home and especially if you don't have the 6kw charger, and this could have been a good news story promoting more EVs, rather that what looks like a tick box exercise.

The company I work for is a US multinational and its a sizable campus, not some fly by night.

I'm just wondering what other EV owners work facilities are, and I have heard of some companies providing multiple charging points with free charging. One in Limerick & one in Cork.

colm_mcm

At least if the charging point isn't in a great spot, you won't have regular cars parking in it

TBi

Resurrecting another old thread.

My work place agreed to install a charging point for me. They just need details on what to do. What's a good website for them to go to, or someone to get in contact with to install a charger?

I know the ESB is the first port of call but i found nothing on the website.

cros13

TBi wrote: »

Resurrecting another old thread.

My work place agreed to install a charging point for me. They just need details on what to do. What's a good website for them to go to, or someone to get in contact with to install a charger?

I know the ESB is the first port of call but i found nothing on the website.

Since you are in Cork you might suggest drive4zero if they are still around.

If not the regular electrician your workplace uses should be able to install one.
If you can get hold of the electrician beforehand, point out it's just an outdoor socket... nothing specialized and point them to where they can purchase the chargepoints.
Easiest install would be on a wall with no trench required but charging posts can be more flexibly placed.
If they don't need access control or a token system for fee payment charging posts are cheap as chips.

Single Phase:

http://www.rexelenergysolutions.co.uk/product/2500626997/Rolec-Mode-3-EV-Charging-Station-BasicCharge-Pedestal-32amp-IEC62196-Type-2-Single-Socket

Three Phase:

http://www.rexelenergysolutions.co.uk/product/2500698063/Rolec-Mode-3-EV-Charging-Station-BasicCharge-Pedestal-32amp-3PH-IEC62196-Type-2-Single-Socket

or Three-phase dual socket:

http://www.rexelenergysolutions.co.uk/product/2500698065/Rolec-Mode-3-EV-Charging-Station-BasicCharge-Pedestal-32amp-3PH-IEC62196-Type-2-Dual-Socket

Also worth pointing out to your finance people that 100% of the value of EV charging equipment can be written down in the year of purchase under the ACA scheme:
http://www.seai.ie/your_business/accelerated_capital_allowance/

The charging posts above are on the ACA approved products list.

PS: the charging posts above can also be locked with a small padlock if needed.

Bad_alibi

cros13 wrote: »

Since you are in Cork you might suggest drive4zero if they are still around.

If not the regular electrician your workplace uses should be able to install one.
If you can get hold of the electrician beforehand, point out it's just an outdoor socket... nothing specialized and point them to where they can purchase the chargepoints.
Easiest install would be on a wall with no trench required but charging posts can be more flexibly placed.
If they don't need access control or a token system for fee payment charging posts are cheap as chips.

Single Phase:

http://www.rexelenergysolutions.co.uk/product/2500626997/Rolec-Mode-3-EV-Charging-Station-BasicCharge-Pedestal-32amp-IEC62196-Type-2-Single-Socket

Three Phase:

http://www.rexelenergysolutions.co.uk/product/2500698063/Rolec-Mode-3-EV-Charging-Station-BasicCharge-Pedestal-32amp-3PH-IEC62196-Type-2-Single-Socket

or Three-phase dual socket:

http://www.rexelenergysolutions.co.uk/product/2500698065/Rolec-Mode-3-EV-Charging-Station-BasicCharge-Pedestal-32amp-3PH-IEC62196-Type-2-Dual-Socket

Also worth pointing out to your finance people that 100% of the value of EV charging equipment can be written down in the year of purchase under the ACA scheme:
http://www.seai.ie/your_business/accelerated_capital_allowance/

The charging posts above are on the ACA approved products list.

PS: the charging posts above can also be locked with a small padlock if needed.

If a company install a charger costing say €500 they can claim back the full €500 at the end of the year, am I reading this correctly.

cros13

I've also been in touch with Revenue re: the BIK implications.

They don't have a clue how BIK should be treated and forwarded my query to technical services back in July.

In the UK HMRC considers workplace EV charging to be a trivial benefit and exempt from BIK.

cros13

Bad_alibi wrote: »

If a company install a charger costing say €500 they can claim back the full €500 at the end of the year, am I reading this correctly.

I'm not an accountant, but i'll try to explain my understanding of it.

They can write down the entire book value of the asset which reduces their taxable income and they are therefore not liable for tax on the income used to purchase the equipment.

The difference with ACA is unlike other assets such as company cars which must be written down bit-by-bit over many years, the entire thing can be written-down in the year of purchase.

ACA also applies to many EVs themselves. I wrote down one of my Leafs under ACA.

KCross

Bad_alibi wrote: »

If a company install a charger costing say €500 they can claim back the full €500 at the end of the year, am I reading this correctly.

Basically it reduces the corporation tax you pay(a bit like Apple!).

You pay 12.5% on your profit. If you pay €20k on an EV you can reduce your profit by €20k and pay 12.5% on the remainder.

You dont get the €20k back!

cros13 wrote: »

I've also been in touch with Revenue re: the BIK implications.

They don't have a clue how BIK should be treated and forwarded my query to technical services back in July.

In the UK HMRC considers workplace EV charging to be a trivial benefit and exempt from BIK.

My large employer was informed(apparently) by revenue that they would have to apply BIK if they provided free work charging (once the ESB started charging for public charging). While public charging is free there is no BIK. That was one of the reasons they cited not wanting to install a work charger for me.

Villain

KCross wrote: »

My large employer was informed(apparently) by revenue that they would have to apply BIK if they provided free work charging (once the ESB started charging for public charging). While public charging is free there is no BIK. That was one of the reasons they cited not wanting to install a work charger for me.

That makes no sense from Revenue POV, in the U.K. This BIK argument has gone on for years and still isn't clear, there was also an issue where electricity wasn't considered "fuel"!

I don't have to pay BIK so any employer that says otherwise is just assuming that they have to charge BIK, They insisted that I do not have to pay BIK , so I don't ask any more I don't care, if I don't have to , brilliant !

Whether this has anything to do with being a contractor on site I have no Idea.

slicedpanman

Well where I work there were several charge points installed a while back. Free to use for all employees, no registering or anything. Obviously our crowd are assuming BIK is irrelevant too as they have no idea which, if any, employees are using them

KCross

Not wanting to support my employer here, as I want a charger!, but BIK is very simple... if the company provide a monetary gain to you then it is taxable. Whether they declare it or not is a very different matter!

Right now, with free public charging, they are not providing any monetary gain to any of you so there is no BIK. As soon as public charging is no longer free there is a BIK and they would be obliged to charge you BIK. It is their and your own decision as to whether you declare that or not to revenue when the time comes.

However, I cant see revenue chasing it as the monetary gain is small. If you charged at work, lets say, 70% 5 days a week for 48 weeks a year the monetary gain would only be about €1 a day so less than €280 for the year.

Personally I think my company just dont want the hassle. They gave other reasons as well like providing a benefit to EV users and not ICE users (i.e. we dont provide free diesel so we cant provide free electricity). An excuse, I know!

cros13

TBH... charging BIK doesn't make a lot of sense. My estimate is that at our electricity price the average person regularly charging at work was using about 70c/day. The problem if BIK is due is that you'd need to implement a system to track usage per employee and have finance apply the tiny amounts of BIK due every paycheck, probably not exceeding €50/year.

The equipment cost vs a standard charging post more than doubles and you have a whole admin nightmare on top.

One possible way to get around BIK is just to state that the charging posts are open public use and free of charge. You don't have to have any special signage or tell anyone about that, you just can't clamp anyone charging in that space or otherwise block a third paty from using the chargepoints.

KCross

cros13 wrote: »

TBH... charging BIK doesn't make a lot of sense. My estimate is that at our electricity price the average person regularly charging at work was using about 70c/day. The problem if BIK is due is that you'd need to implement a system to track usage per employee and have finance apply the tiny amounts of BIK due every paycheck, probably not exceeding €50/year.

The equipment cost vs a standard charging post more than doubles and you have a whole admin nightmare on top.

One possible way to get around BIK is just to state that the charging posts are open public use and free of charge. You don't have to have any special signage or tell anyone about that, you just can't clamp anyone charging in that space or otherwise block a third paty from using the chargepoints.

I agree. Tracking and billing how many kWh's each employee uses would be ridiculously expensive relative to the tax collected.

Another option is that you can give your employees a €500 tax free gift per year. It cant be in cash so maybe there is some way to dress up an electron as a gift!

See the "Small Benefits" paragraph:
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/index.html

It has to be one gift and not a whole load of 70c gifts but I'm sure there would be a way around it. Maybe revenue will relax their rules on it when they realise the benefit is so small.

BTW, let us know when that free charger is up and running!

TBi

KCross wrote: »

It has to be one gift and not a whole load of 70c gifts but I'm sure there would be a way around it. Maybe revenue will relax their rules on it when they realise the benefit is so small.

One gift? How about a prepaid voucher for the charging point? There you go. All sorted!

Also my wife works for a company that is on the drive4zero website. She asked about a charging spot and told because she is on a 1 year contract she isn't eligible. She was directed instead to on street chargers.

Does anyone know the rules around this? Apparently their chargers are in a different car park where the 'managers' park.

KCross

TBi wrote: »

One gift? How about a prepaid voucher for the charging point? There you go. All sorted!

Also my wife works for a company that is on the drive4zero website. She asked about a charging spot and told because she is on a 1 year contract she isn't eligible. She was directed instead to on street chargers.

Does anyone know the rules around this? Apparently their chargers are in a different car park where the 'managers' park.

The drive4zero is just an initiative. Its not a company that owns any chargers.

If your wife's company have a charger it is they own it, not drive4zero, so it is entirely up to the company how they utilise it.

The drive4zero initiative seems to be dead to be honest as I've tried to communicate with them a few times and got no response. Although the Q-Parks in Cork, which signed up for drive4zero, do still provide free parking in 4 of their multi-storeys in Cork which is very useful.

My wife regularly parks in one of the more expensive Q-Parks in the city centre and you get a free charge and free parking. A major benefit as 2-3hrs in a multi would cost you €10.

zilog_jones

KCross wrote: »

The drive4zero initiative seems to be dead to be honest as I've tried to communicate with them a few times and got no response. Although the Q-Parks in Cork, which signed up for drive4zero, do still provide free parking in 4 of their multi-storeys in Cork which is very useful.

My wife regularly parks in one of the more expensive Q-Parks in the city centre and you get a free charge and free parking. A major benefit as 2-3hrs in a multi would cost you €10.

Sorry for going a bit off-topic but how do you actually get free parking in these places? I've used the chargers in St. Finbarr's a couple of times but didn't see an attendant there and no one answered the call button on the machine, so I ended up paying.

KCross

zilog_jones wrote: »

Sorry for going a bit off-topic but how do you actually get free parking in these places? I've used the chargers in St. Finbarr's a couple of times but didn't see an attendant there and no one answered the call button on the machine, so I ended up paying.

I havent used that specific park but you do need to meet an attendant to validate the ticket. It cant be done via a machine in any way.

There is always (whenever we tried) an attendant in the Grand Parade one at the top of the ramp, which is also right next to the chargers. Just give him your ticket, they validate it and away you go.

Is there an attendant's desk somewhere else in the St Finbarrs park, hidden away in some corner?

Padraig Mor

Was always an attendant at St Finbarr's when I used it, except once - and they told me (over the intercom) to just buzz them at the barrier and they'd let me out.

I've read elsewhere though that Q Park are finishing the initiative this month - haven't seen confirmation of it though.

zilog_jones

KCross wrote: »

Is there an attendant's desk somewhere else in the St Finbarrs park, hidden away in some corner?

There is near the entrance, but I've never noticed anyone there. Saying that I haven't been in there too often, and it would usually be around lunch time or late afternoon.

pwurple

KCross wrote: »

My large employer was informed(apparently) by revenue that they would have to apply BIK if they provided free work charging (once the ESB started charging for public charging). While public charging is free there is no BIK. That was one of the reasons they cited not wanting to install a work charger for me.

Do they apply BIK to everyone charging their phones at work too?

Or anyone washing their hands or flushing a toilet? Water ain't free you know. Hope they don't get away with employee coffee!


Ffs, it's facilities.

TBi

pwurple wrote: »

Do they apply BIK to everyone charging their phones at work too?

You mean you don't get charged for this? We all have little ESB meters at our desks

Villain

Anyone can buy a phone and plug it in at work and anyone can buy an EV at work and plug it in but I'm sure the Revenue will get some legislation passed to make sure they get their pound of flesh.

zilog_jones

Phone chargers are more like 5W, not 3kW+

KCross

pwurple wrote: »

Do they apply BIK to everyone charging their phones at work too?

Or anyone washing their hands or flushing a toilet? Water ain't free you know. Hope they don't get away with employee coffee!


Ffs, it's facilities.

zilog_jones wrote: »

Phone chargers are more like 5W, not 3kW+

We pay for our own coffee! Dont you? Whats your PPSN number again... I think I need to talk to revenue about you!

Tea and Coffee costs a fortune in our place, surely that's also eligible for BIK ? So I can't see how EV charging is either.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

Basically it reduces the corporation tax you pay(a bit like Apple!).

You pay 12.5% on your profit. If you pay €20k on an EV you can reduce your profit by €20k and pay 12.5% on the remainder.

You dont get the €20k back!




My large employer was informed(apparently) by revenue that they would have to apply BIK if they provided free work charging (once the ESB started charging for public charging). While public charging is free there is no BIK. That was one of the reasons they cited not wanting to install a work charger for me.

The perils of asking revenue anything is the motto " no good deed goes unpunished "

Evd-Burner

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't have to pay BIK so any employer that says otherwise is just assuming that they have to charge BIK, They insisted that I do not have to pay BIK , so I don't ask any more I don't care, if I don't have to , brilliant !

Whether this has anything to do with being a contractor on site I have no Idea.

I now know where you work and exactly what you do. Do they still have the sign up at your desk that says "another one of those days?"

Evd-Burner

Evd-Burner wrote: »

I now know where you work and exactly what you do. Do they still have the sign up at your desk that says "another one of those days?"

You know where I work ? cool

Another one of those days ? you got me there though.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Although the Q-Parks in Cork, which signed up for drive4zero, do still provide free parking in 4 of their multi-storeys in Cork which is very useful.

My wife regularly parks in one of the more expensive Q-Parks in the city centre and you get a free charge and free parking. A major benefit as 2-3hrs in a multi would cost you €10.

zilog_jones wrote: »

Sorry for going a bit off-topic but how do you actually get free parking in these places? I've used the chargers in St. Finbarr's a couple of times but didn't see an attendant there and no one answered the call button on the machine, so I ended up paying.

KCross wrote: »

I havent used that specific park but you do need to meet an attendant to validate the ticket. It cant be done via a machine in any way.

There is always (whenever we tried) an attendant in the Grand Parade one at the top of the ramp, which is also right next to the chargers. Just give him your ticket, they validate it and away you go.

Is there an attendant's desk somewhere else in the St Finbarrs park, hidden away in some corner?

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Was always an attendant at St Finbarr's when I used it, except once - and they told me (over the intercom) to just buzz them at the barrier and they'd let me out.

I've read elsewhere though that Q Park are finishing the initiative this month - haven't seen confirmation of it though.

I dropped them an email and got a response from a manager saying that they have no plans to end the 4hrs of free parking for EV's, but it is reviewed periodically.

It didnt sound like they were on the cusp of killing it. Fingers crossed, its a nice perk.

zilog_jones

I've used the Q-Park on Grand Parade a few times since then - there was one of two spaces available every time I went there, and also an attendant was available to give me a free ticket (looks like he has to print out a new one). The spaces are a bit awkward as I need to reverse in and it's at the end of the row (next to some cleaning equipment and junk), and also the ceiling is quite low (something to watch out with the liftback Prius as the spoiler is known to break easily), but it's a lot more convenient than St. Finbarr's.