Casual employment

jamesdublin12

How long can a job keep you on casual or zero hour contract before making you permanent
Also I heard that all employees Nees to give or paid minimum 15 hours is Thia correct

davo10

jamesdublin12 wrote: »

How long can a job keep you on casual or zero hour contract before making you permanent
Also I heard that all employees Nees to give or paid minimum 15 hours is Thia correct

Casual employment (if and when contract) and zero hour contracts are 2 different situations. Casual employment means that they call you when they need you on a casual basis, you have no protection under employment law. A zero hour contract means you must be available to work when rostered, but you must be available to work when needed. For instance if you have a zero contract but must be available to work 20 hours per week, they must pay you for at least 25% of the hours even if you don't get rostered to work any hours or 15 hours ( if you are required to be available for 38hrs per week) whichever is the lesser. This can continue indefinitely.

Mrs OBumble

Hours of work and permanent vs temporary (ie having a fixed end-date) are two different things.

They can only leave you temporary for 4 years. After that, they have to give you a permanent contract (jargon for this is "contract of indefinite duration"). But this does not have to be full time - you can be permanent part time too.

Permanent casual or permanent zero hours would be a little silly, because they could just never give you hours anyways. But technically it could be done.

davo10

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Hours of work and permanent vs temporary (ie having a fixed end-date) are two different things.

They can only leave you temporary for 4 years. After that, they have to give you a permanent contract (jargon for this is "contract of indefinite duration"). But this does not have to be full time - you can be permanent part time too.

Permanent casual or permanent zero hours would be a little silly, because they could just never give you hours anyways. But technically it could be done.

Zero hour contracts are common in the retail industry. They are far from silly, and beneficial to the employer because you have a big pool of employees to call on for shifts and you can simply
reduce hours during quiet days/times. From op's other thread it seems he/she is some type of guardian/hostess for students and is only called on when needed.

Casual (if and when contract) does not have to be made parmament at any time as there is no continuity of service, the employee is only taken on when needed and let go when they are not.

As with all questions like the op's, the answer depends on the contract of employment if there is one. If there is no contract and the school just phones the op when he/she is needed, then the op gets paid for that job, but very importantly, he/she has the option to say no or not answer the phone as he/she is not required to be on call. On the other hand if he/she has a zero hours contract with a requirement to be available to work a certain number of hours per week, then he/she must be available to work those hours and is entitled to be paid for at least 25% of those hours even if he/she is not called apon to do so.

So the important question is, what type of contract does the op have?

http://employmentrightsireland.com/tag/zero-hours-contracts/

jamesdublin12

I got a contract.. but it wasnt filled in properly...
So I just filled out the casual stuff for the social welfare. So I said to them look some weeks Ill work some I wont... so I think that just casual and not zero hour. so I dont have a minimum do I?

davo10

jamesdublin12 wrote: »

I got a contract.. but it wasnt filled in properly...
So I just filled out the casual stuff for the social welfare. So I said to them look some weeks Ill work some I wont... so I think that just casual and not zero hour. so I dont have a minimum do I?

Nope, you don't have anything except an agreement to pay you a certain amount if and when they need you, and if and when you decide to work. You are not being exploited nor underpaid, they are paying you above minimum wage for unskilled casual work.

jamesdublin12

who said my job wasnt skilled work.

davo10

jamesdublin12 wrote: »

who said my job wasnt skilled work.

What qualifications are required?

jamesdublin12

Various. You need various to work with Children. Not that the job asks it but the law does require that you have various courses and certificates.

davo10

jamesdublin12 wrote: »

Various. You need various to work with Children. Not that the job asks it but the law does require that you have various courses and certificates.

What are required for the job you are doing for this school?

jamesdublin12

who said I was working with students and with school? I working with children.
they require that I have completed various courses and up to date qualifications.

davo10

jamesdublin12 wrote: »

who said I was working with students and with school? I working with children.
they require that I have completed various courses and up to date qualifications.

What courses and qualifications exactly? You seem to be driving children around and conducting tours?

All this is an aside, your description of your working arrangement where you chose to work sometimes and not others is a casual arrangement and as such you have no protection under employment law barring that which relates to the minimum wage, you do not have continuity of service so you are not entitled to payment beyond the hours they call on you/you chose to work, you appear to have actually confirmed that this is the situation to Social Welfare presumably so you you be eligible for benefit.

When I say an unskilled job, I don't mean you are unskilled.

jamesdublin12

its a skilled job. requires certain qualifications, so I should be paid a higher rate of pay is that what you are sayig.

davo10

jamesdublin12 wrote: »

its a skilled job. requires certain qualifications, so I should be paid a higher rate of pay is that what you are sayig.

Nope, what skills/qualifications are required for the job you do? It's an easy question.

You should not be paid a higher rate, if the rate you are being paid is the going rate for that particular job. You have a casual arrangement whereby you seem to work when it suits you. I'm not sure that between the two threads you opened on this, it could be made any clearer for you.

jamesdublin12

I wasnt asking that. I was only asking about the obligation to make permanent. id a job a few years ago here 11 months made you permanent but the laws have change since then and tats what i wanted into on. after how long do you become permanent.

Stheno

jamesdublin12 wrote: »

I wasnt asking that. I was only asking about the obligation to make permanent. id a job a few years ago here 11 months made you permanent but the laws have change since then and tats what i wanted into on. after how long do you become permanent.

Four years

davo10

Stheno wrote: »

Four years

That is only after consecutive fixed term contracts, these cannot exceed four years in total. However if there is a break in service of 3 months or more, the clock resets.

The op is not on a fixed term contract, a part time contract nor a zero hours contract. It is an "if and when" type arrangement where the op works only when it suits him. Under this arrangement the op has no employment rights under the OWTA nor the UDA apart from a right to be paid minimum wage for hours worked. He has no right to permanency.

jamesdublin12

Its not only when it suits me. its just when the job have hours. Obviously Im gonna take them.

Stheno

davo10 wrote: »

That is only after consecutive fixed term contracts, these cannot exceed four years in total. However if there is a break in service of 3 months or more, the clock resets.

The op is not on a fixed term contract, a part time contract nor a zero hours contract. It is an "if and when" type arrangement where the op works only when it suits him. Under this arrangement the op has no employment rights under the OWTA nor the UDA apart from a right to be paid minimum wage for hours worked. He has no right to permanency.

Apologies I was thinking of continuous service

jamesdublin12

try not being so harsh in your replies to people. you probably dont mean it. but your replies do come across very harsh.

Stheno

jamesdublin12 wrote: »

try not being so harsh in your replies to people. you probably dont mean it. but your replies do come across very harsh.

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