Estimate for knocking internal wall

DriveSkill

Hi,

We are looking to knock an internal block wall between kitchen/dining room and then block up one door. Have received a quote but to me seems on the high side but to honest not sure whether my expectations were way off The quote is from a 'reputable' builder who has done work for other members of the family so dont think he is ripping us off and maybe I was just expecting too much for too little!

Any idea what kind of ball park figure you'd expect for this ?

Quote includes putting in RSJ above the ceiling (i.e. between ceiling and 1st floor) so possible re-routing of some heating pipes upstairs (max 2 radiators). Would also require to relocate one radiator downstairs which is one the wall to be knocked. Finish would not include painting or any flooring (apart from taking up what is there now where needed)

So should it be around the €5K, €8K, €10K, €12K or €15K mark do you think ?

Thanks!

Gumbo

5k ish

893bet

With the rsj to be hidden in the floor it can get expensive. I'd say 5 would be a very good price all in. I'd expect 8k to be honest.

DriveSkill

Thanks for the replies so far..sort of in the range of what I had expected before I got the quote. However quote has come back as just over €11K incl VAT which I'm surprised at! Its not broken down apart from a general listing of the work to be done as I outlined above.

Maybe time to get a second or third opinion.

Gumbo

DriveSkill wrote: »

Thanks for the replies so far..sort of in the range of what I had expected before I got the quote. However quote has come back as just over €11K incl VAT which I'm surprised at! Its not broken down apart from a general listing of the work to be done as I outlined above.

Maybe time to get a second or third opinion.

Deffo get another quote.
I recently got for 3k for something similar on a house in Dublin 17.

removed brick wall, steel beam buried into ceiling and flip plumbing and electrical layout for new kitchen, but it was part of a larger job on the property, so maybe the builder was being generous just to get the additional work, that's why I said 5ish.

ted1

Did a similar job myself 5k inclusive of VAT should do it.

jlm29

How much would a job like this be if there was no affect on pipes/wires- just knock through & rsj? Old (really old) house, so walls are v thick- the wall to be knocked is between an original external wall and a newer extension.

Water John

That's a load bearing wall.

jlm29

Water John wrote: »

That's a load bearing wall.

Yes. Hence the rsj?

Calahonda52

Water John wrote: »

That's a load bearing wall.

Am puzzled as if its hidden whats it carrying?
Load bearing wall above with joists running // on both sides, maybe.
If so then a bit more pricey perhaps because he wont have access from below to support... maybe too much vino...

OP: does the work include getting an engineer to sign off because if not you won't sell, easily, without it.
It adds about 750-1000 to the job.

TBH, 11 sounds like I don't want it quote, but if the fool is foolish enough to pay 11 then Euro 2016 AND Olympics are doable.:D

ted1

jlm29 wrote: »

How much would a job like this be if there was no affect on pipes/wires- just knock through & rsj? Old (really old) house, so walls are v thick- the wall to be knocked is between an original external wall and a newer extension.

2.5k-3k add 500 if you want a structural report.

ted1

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Am puzzled as if its hidden whats it carrying?
Load bering wall above with joists running // on both sides, maybe.
If so then a bit more pricey perhaps because he wont have access from below to support... maybe too much vino...

OP: does the work include getting an engineer to sign off because if not you won't sell, easily, without it.
It adds about 750-1000 to the job.

TBH, 11 sounds like I don't want it quote, but if the fool is foolish enough to pay 11 then Euro 2016 AND Olympics are doable.:D

There's an RSJ hidden in that picture You cut the joists slide it in and the sit on the metal part , then lock into place.

ted1

Like this

DriveSkill

Calahonda52 wrote: »

OP: does the work include getting an engineer to sign off because if not you won't sell, easily, without it.
It adds about 750-1000 to the job.

TBH, 11 sounds like I don't want it quote, but if the fool is foolish enough to pay 11 then Euro 2016 AND Olympics are doable.:D

Actually good point on the engineer - not specifically stated but I can check. Have another guy coming to quote on Wed so will see I guess.

Not sure if the quote we got is at the point of not actually wanting the job, possibly so...

Gumbo

DriveSkill wrote: »

Actually good point on the engineer - not specifically stated but I can check. Have another guy coming to quote on Wed so will see I guess.

Not sure if the quote we got is at the point of not actually wanting the job, possibly so...

It will most likely not include an engineer as that responsibility lies with the OP as the building owner.

ted1

kceire wrote: »

It will most likely not include an engineer as that responsibility lies with the OP as the building owner.

Builders who do this type of work on a daily basis often have a structural engineer they work with and get much better rates

Calahonda52

kceire wrote: »

It will most likely not include an engineer as that responsibility lies with the OP as the building owner.

What I am seeing, and saw quite a bit, especially during the crash, was buyers asking for an engineers cert re such steel work, perhaps the refurb builders did not provide certs.

As an engineer, I always insist on opening up and then that cost is added to my fee: It also stops the , oh well we will offer a 100k less!

My advice to refurbers using steel beams now is get the engineers cert at the time of construction.
Job done

ted1 wrote: »

There's an RSJ hidden in that picture You cut the joists slide it in and the sit on the metal part , then lock into place.

not if there is a load bearing wall above, say, mid room

Gumbo

ted1 wrote: »

Builders who do this type of work on a daily basis often have a structural engineer they work with and get much better rates

Often, but when your involved in this business you see builders without an engineers Input more often than having an engineer input.
I've been on so many sites where steel has been lifted in, welded, timbers notched and when I ask the home owner or the builder for the engineers details, I get the "agh sure that will be grand, it's going no where!" Or "I used an 8" beam, even that was overkill".

I always recommend the home owner engage an engineer and let them tell the builder what steel arrangement has to go in.

I mostly see the builder adding the engineers cost onto the bill which is completely right in my opinion but they also add some for themselves so I find that it can be just as cost effective to get your own and plus you have independent supervision and certification.

Bullocks

If the RSJ is to be hidden in the ceiling can you cut the joisting shy and bolt on extensions to meet the RSJ once it's in position or new joisting across the ceiling altogether ?
Also are engineers asking for infirmiscent paint on RSJs or is it necessary ?

Gumbo

Bullocks wrote: »

If the RSJ is to be hidden in the ceiling can you cut the joisting shy and bolt on extensions to meet the RSJ once it's in position or new joisting across the ceiling altogether ?
Also are engineers asking for infirmiscent paint on RSJs or is it necessary ?

I would rather weld a plate to the underside of the steel beam to catch the joists as opposed to bolting on extensions but it's your engineers call.

Fire lined, Yes it's required by law as its a structural component, or you can box it out in fire lined plasterboard.

PS. Intumescent

Bullocks

kceire wrote: »

I would rather weld a plate to the underside of the steel beam to catch the joists as opposed to bolting on extensions but it's your engineers call.

Fire lined, Yes it's required by law as its a structural component, or you can box it out in fire lined plasterboard.

PS. Intumescent

Thanks , I've never seen an RSJ being hidden in a ceiling unless there was new joisting going in . The plate makes sense now but I hadn't thought of doing it that way .
Sorry about the spelling , I was a bit off with it !

DriveSkill

Just an update on this as got 2 more quotes.

The cheapest quote we got which was for knocking the wall and putting in an RSJ underneath the current joists (i.e. not hidden), moving a rad and electrics and basically opening up both existing doors to make it open plan was for under €2K.

The mid quote was bit more work, still keeping the RSJ under the joists but blocking up both doors and creating a new cupboard, then opening a new door for the area, would require moving 2 rads and more electrics...quote of €7K

I think the mid-quote is probably realistic, the cheap quote seems too low and the original quote of €11K was just off the scale for the work proposed - why he didnt just say he didnt want the job and make it easier on everyone I dont know.