Leinster V Rugby's Biggest Bandwagon; 28/5/2016 17:30 Murrayfield: SS3 & TG4

Buer

If you think a player is judged on the success of their opposite number your rugby knowledge is lacking.

The bloke was one of the few threats Leinster had. To put it in context, he made more yards and beat more defenders that Healy but the ball he got was slow and in much tighter areas.

CowboyTed

nc6000 wrote: »

In all fairness I thought Dave played OK today and certainly played much much better than Rob.

Sorry to be cruel but how did Dave's opposite number play? Matt Healy.

Dave was comprehensively beaten, what attack did he make, any line breaks?


The loosing of this game was not the Kearney's fault... The fault lies in the style of rugby Leinster are playing... Connacht are playing ina style of rugby that is probably going to win the next RWC, Leinster are playing is a style that won it over 10 years ago... That is the difference....

Connacht handed Leinster bloody cheap lesson today...

You ain't winning anything in Europe with that style of rugby.

That cost you on Pro 12 title and it was a cheap lesson... And if you don't learn it will be handed to you next year again...

The fall out of this match is Leinster finished the third best team in Pro 12. Glasgow are ahead of them... Glasgow also play an off loading game and filling the wide channels.

Connacht aren't supposed to have first pick of players, but they win by playing the best style.

Now Joe (Schmidt) has a problem... He knows the Connacht style (also NZ style) is superior but to play it you need players invested in it full-time for at least 6-9 months before getting any results... He can't do that at international level, this can only be achieved at provincial level. There is his dilemma.

Do we need a director of rugby to coordinate the provinces with the International goals?

Buer

CowboyTed wrote:

Dave was comprehensively beaten, what attack did he make, any line breaks?

Did you even watch the game?!

Donnielighto

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Pat Lam had the same amount of time as an assistant prior to being a head coach as Cullen had.

He's learning still and ideally he would have had more time as an assistant but he's there now and I think they've generally done a good job in a very tricky situation this year. Next season the expectations are higher with a potential top European seeding and more time to work with their top players, they need to be back at the top of the Pro 12 and also back in the knockouts of European rugby. I think it's definitely achievable with the current squad and coaches.

I'd guess most head coaches do serve an apprenticeship though. My aunt smoking 40 and day and not getting cancer doesnt mean that cigs are fine for ya.

Donnielighto

Neil3030 wrote: »

Just to point out, that in Muldoon's 275th cap for Connacht, he will captain his team, priced around 2.75 to win....

That's the kind of bullsh1t chance correlation you simply can't ignore.

Well spotted

mansize

astonaidan wrote: »

Did mine in a double with Real

Ignored the Wendyball

(Extra wendyness tonight all Spanish final!)

mansize

"This is a famous win for Connacht Rugby, which caps a fantastic year for the Western Province." - President Michael D. Higgins today.

Quint2010

Well played Connacht. The better team deserved to win. By a country mile.

LorMal

TeoReid wrote: »

Yup, only got his side to the final in his first season. Sure that's useless

He managed to get a team (packed full of very expensive and experienced internationals) to the final of a busted flush of a league which is supposed to be clubs from 4 nations but is actually the Irish Provinces plus Glasgow.
And his team played ****e all season. And were beaten to a pulp in the final.
Give me a break.

vienne86

CowboyTed wrote: »

Honestly if you think Dave Kearney had a good game your knowledge of rugby is lacking...

His opposite number ran riot all day... Actually the whole Connacht back 3 comprehensively beat the Leinster back 3....

I thought Dave was actually OK today....only OK. Rob was truly awful, and looked past it - Zane should have started. The Connacht backs made the Leinster backs look old and slow. T'eo was quiet and Ringrose seemed a bit lost. Reddan looked past it as well. Only Fitz looked decent.

LorMal

vienne86 wrote: »

I thought Dave was actually OK today....only OK. Rob was truly awful, and looked past it - Zane should have started. The Connacht backs made the Leinster backs look old and slow. T'eo was quiet and Ringrose seemed a bit lost. Reddan looked past it as well. Only Fitz looked decent.

Agreed. Rob has been terrible for 2 years. Time to go. The fact that Zane was an improvement speaks volumes.
I won't miss T'eo - he looked like he didn't care less today. Ringrose was lost because his partner at 12.was already in Worcester.
Overall Leinster look poorly coached. Time for a clear out and some fresh thinking.

Adbrowne

LorMal wrote: »

He managed to get a team (packed full of very expensive and experienced internationals) to the final of a busted flush of a league which is supposed to be clubs from 4 nations but is actually the Irish Provinces plus Glasgow.
And his team played ****e all season. And were beaten to a pulp in the final.
Give me a break.

He didn't have the internationals in july, august, september, october, february and march. If connacht had to do without 15-20 players (pick the opposite numbers to the ones leinster had away) at the same time as leinster had to they wouldnt have got near a final.

irishbucsfan

LorMal wrote: »

He managed to get a team (packed full of very expensive and experienced internationals) to the final of a busted flush of a league which is supposed to be clubs from 4 nations but is actually the Irish Provinces plus Glasgow.
And his team played ****e all season. And were beaten to a pulp in the final.
Give me a break.

They didn't play ****e all season, and even if the league is just the 4 Irish provinces and Glasgow that still means his team outperformed 4 good (by your measurement) teams to finish top of the league.

That doesn't mean he's going to be a success, but it's a better start than other successful coaches have had.

phog

Great game for a neutral, Connacht were immense. They out played Leinster every bar scrum. Leinster looked stale, Rob was piss poor, Isa and Toner were huge losses but even if they were there I think Connacht would have won.

All four Irish provinces have won the League now, great for Irish rugby.

The homecoming should be something special.

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

The bloke was one of the few threats Leinster had. To put it in context, he made more yards and beat more defenders that Healy but the ball he got was slow and in much tighter areas.

DK did what he does, which is be solid.

The fact that every game he plays requires an army of posters to come out in his defence speaks certain volumes.

However, regardless of the stats, the Connacht back 3 did what they have done much of the season - score tries.

It gets boring hearing about how wingers should do all sorts of things, but tries are a bonus, not really required.

The focus really shouldn't be on DK, though, who was decent enough, especially 2nd 40. It should be on his brother - I honestly can't remember the last time RK dazzled on attack.

All 3 Connacht back 3 players look dangerous, but the lines ran by the Nigerian lad were very impressive.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I'm still of the opinion that Leo Cullen was the only one who wanted the job last summer. Or the only one the powers that be thought the fans would accept because nobody worth their salt was interested.
They'd just sacked a coach who was reasonably successful in his short time there, there were grumblings of discontent from players and fans, and they were looking at taking over all of that while being without 20+ first team players for the first three months of the season and only just getting them back before the start of a horrifically tough European pool.

Given their poor start to the season I think Leo and Leinster did well to make the final. They'll be bitterly disappointed with today's performance but they showed last week what they are still capable of when it all clicks for them. I would hope to see some new faces come through next season. I don't think Rob K should be written off yet but pickings are pretty slim in that position for Leinster. With Madigan going there's no real back up at 10 either? You're looking at Isa being 2nd choice in both positions and he's 96! (Kirchner looked alright today, mind you).

freyners

We bloody did it!!!!!!

Crimsonforce

Did anyone see that lad Peter Robb's tree trunk arms, jaysus....

gregor Townsend on sky sports say this lad is going to be big...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Did anyone see that lad Peter Robb's tree trunk arms, jaysus....

gregor Townsend on sky sports say this lad is going to be big...

Himself and Bundee would be some pairing. The parents of the other teams will demand they be made play with the bigger boys.

Quint2010

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Did anyone see that lad Peter Robb's tree trunk arms, jaysus....

gregor Townsend on sky sports say this lad is going to be big...

Questions must be asked about Leinsters academy policy. Himself and Kelleher both let go over the past 18 months.

irishbucsfan

Quint2010 wrote: »

Questions must be asked about Leinsters academy policy. Himself and Kelleher both let go over the past 18 months.

Leinster no more let Kelleher go than Connacht let Henshaw go

nice_guy80

Wheels stayed on the bandwagon today

Rightwing

Adbrowne wrote: »

Connacht failed to score for 80 minutes in the rds a few months ago and only managed the 3 points against ulster the week before that. That was the first time I saw them play this season and thought they were a crap team.

I'll be honest with you here:

• Connacht did it when it mattered. I congratulate them. I like champions, not losers.

• Leinster looked like losers. I don't like losers in any sphere of life. Leinster are going nowhere under the current set up.

BrokenMan

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Wheels stayed on the bandwagon today

We're gonna need a bigger bandwagon

irishbucsfan

Rightwing wrote: »

I'll be honest with you here:

• Connacht did it when it mattered. I congratulate them. I like champions, not losers.

• Leinster looked like losers. I don't like losers in any sphere of life. Leinster are going nowhere under the current set up.

Leinster went from outside the playoffs to top of the league and possible first seeds next season in the Champions Cup. So somewhere.

Care to give us a prediction for what will happen next season?

Rightwing

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Leinster went from outside the playoffs to top of the league and possible first seeds next season in the Champions Cup. So somewhere.

Care to give us a prediction for what will happen next season?

We'll keep it realistic.

There won't be too many Pro 12 teams getting out of their groups in the Champions Cup, if any. Likes of Saracens are way ahead of anything I've seen from the Pro 12, and Ulster will confirm this.

KingBrian2

Connacht deserved to win. Great result for them.:) So glad after all the previous years of disappointment. As for Leinster we were not that great. Throughout the year I feel discipline let us down. We lost away to Ulster and i'll confess I missed the early portion of the match. No idea that the match was on at 5:30. I was waiting for a 7:45 kick off and to my surprise the match was nearly over.

So to conclude my assessment of the season. We were lucky to make it to the final, Ulster could easily have gotten there. Disappointing not to do better in the European League & congratulations to Connacht you finally won the cup and did well throughout the season and not just once or twice so enjoy your night out in Edinburgh my Mam is a proud West of Ireland women and I was hoping for good game. Great performance.:cool:

irishbucsfan

Rightwing wrote: »

We'll keep it realistic.

There won't be too many Pro 12 teams getting out of their groups in the Champions Cup, if any. Likes of Saracens are way ahead of anything I've seen from the Pro 12, and Ulster will confirm this.

Right but Connacht and probably Leinster won't be playing tier 1 opposition in the group stages, so that won't matter to them in the group stages.

Is your prediction then that none of the Irish teams will make it out of the groups?

thomond2006

The Rugby Expert called it wrong.

Rightwing

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right but Connacht and probably Leinster won't be playing tier 1 opposition in the group stages, so that won't matter to them in the group stages.

Is your prediction then that none of the Irish teams will make it out of the groups?

Worryingly, not just the Irish, but no Pro 12 team. Who beat Connacht in Europe this season..Grenoble? :eek: Gulp. Yet Connacht won the Pro 12 at a canter.

thomond2006

Well done Connacht. Deserved victory earned in a brilliant fashion. With a top seed they are set to make an impact in Europe.

McCartney, Muldowney, Heenan, Aki. Money well spent.

Diabhal Beag

Everything has been said but Seán O'Brien was outstanding and an absolute nuisance when he came on. Peter Robb will be a WWE Champion in 5 years too. So happy for Muldoon. Lam was a gent after the game.

Wouldn't have got to this without Leinster getting us into the Heineken Cup. Gracious in defeat fairplay.

irishbucsfan

Rightwing wrote: »

Worryingly, not just the Irish, but no Pro 12 team. Who beat Connacht in Europe this season..Grenoble? :eek: Gulp. Yet Connacht won the Pro 12 at a canter.

Connacht hardly won the Pro 12 at a canter considering you predicted them to get hammered in the final just a week ago.

The pool stages are very different to knockout rugby, 3 games in Galway against teams all seeded below them gives them a chance. Same will be true for Leinster if the draw for top seeding goes our way. This is a Leinster team that has improved on the one that was in the semi-finals last season, and should improve further with less disruption in September 2016.

Rightwing

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Connacht hardly won the Pro 12 at a canter considering you predicted them to get hammered in the final just a week ago.

The pool stages are very different to knockout rugby, 3 games in Galway against teams all seeded below them gives them a chance. Same will be true for Leinster if the draw for top seeding goes our way. This is a Leinster team that has improved on the one that was in the semi-finals last season, and should improve further with less disruption in September 2016.

They won at a canter, only a fool would suggest otherwise.

Without delving too deep into it: If you can keep the opposition scoreless for an entire half, and to 3 points until the game is effectively over. Sometimes we need to confront reality, however painful it may be: Connacht won at a canter and I congratulate them for doing so.

Yeah_Right

CowboyTed wrote: »

Now Joe (Schmidt) has a problem... He knows the Connacht style (also NZ style) is superior but to play it you need players invested in it full-time for at least 6-9 months before getting any results... He can't do that at international level, this can only be achieved at provincial level. There is his dilemma.

Wrong. The ABs don't play the same style as Connacht. The ABs kick more than any other international team. And NZ Super Rugby teams all play with different styles.

Yeah_Right

Well done Connacht. Happy for them and happy for Lam after some of the tough years he has had in the past.

My thoughts on the game:

i can see why Ringrose isn't the Irish squad. Still some work to be done.

I'd like to Niyi in the Irish squad.

Apart from running fast, what does Healy do? Nothing.

Good game from DK. His bro was ****e.

What's wrong with Luke Fitz? How can he be so good one week then so crap the next?

Why the hatred for Triggs? Thought he was fine. Couple of handling errors but that seemed standard for Leinster's pack.

The thread title is very appropriate after watching the match. Obviously a lot of the Connacht fans are used to football and that's why they were booing and whistling when a Connacht player was down injured. They clearly haven't watched enough rugby to know that it's play on

Tom McCartney had a decent game.mis he going to get any Irish caps?

Dave_The_Sheep

Rightwing wrote: »

They won at a canter, only a fool would suggest otherwise.

Without delving too deep into it: If you can keep the opposition scoreless for an entire half, and to 3 points until the game is effectively over. Sometimes we need to confront reality, however painful it may be: Connacht won at a canter and I congratulate them for doing so.

I believe the point being made was that the Pro12 is more than one game (the final). Connacht won the final well, not quite at a canter, but well. As for the whole season, I wouldn't call that a canter.

Utopia Parkway

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Apart from running fast, what does Healy do? Nothing.

Well he scored one try and created another.

I guess if you want someone to chase high kicks he's probably not your man alright.

Ardillaun

Great to see Muldoon part of this after the contribution he has made to Connacht rugby. Portumna is famous for more than hurling now.

CatFromHue

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Well he scored one try and created another.

I guess if you want someone to chase high kicks he's probably not your man alright.

Yeah I'm happy for him to do that.

For consideration for Ireland though I think back to the Conn regular season games against Lein, Uls, and Muns and he wasn't great in them.

If given the space he has pace to burn and will hurt teams.

My biggest worry though is that Int level he won't get that space.

pickarooney

Great to see a team pick two huge centres and not just smash them up the middle. Cronin and McCartney's solo efforts were fantastic viewing too.

Where does SOB 2 go from here? Connacht's back row is as overcrowded as Leinster's these days while the other two provinces are living off scraps.

Disappointed for Cooney that his game was over before it started. Hard to know who is Connacht's most talented 9.

I take if AJ is moving on. Where to?

This fear of going wide has been costing Irish teams long enough.

mfceiling

Rightwing wrote: »

They won at a canter, only a fool would suggest otherwise.

You do know that 4 points separated the top 4 teams at the end of the season. I'd hardly call that a canter now...

Adbrowne

mfceiling wrote: »

You do know that 4 points separated the top 4 teams at the end of the season. I'd hardly call that a canter now...

And both glasgow and leinster had half their squads away for nearly 6 of the last 11 months.

CptMackey

Great win. Nice to see attacking rugby winning. Would be great if munster could play in a similar way.

LorMal

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They didn't play ****e all season, and even if the league is just the 4 Irish provinces and Glasgow that still means his team outperformed 4 good (by your measurement) teams to finish top of the league.

That doesn't mean he's going to be a success, but it's a better start than other successful coaches have had.

I think you are setting the bar too low. It's not that long ago when Leinster were the best team in Europe. While there are a few reasons behind our demise, poor coaching is definitely one of them.
Leo had zero experience as a head coach - it showed in spades yesterday (and throughout the season). Pat Lam had him in his pocket.
Leister should not be an academy for upcoming coaches (nor should Munster but they have finally resolved that).

Adbrowne

LorMal wrote: »

I think you are setting the bar too low. It's not that long ago when Leinster were the best team in Europe. While there are a few reasons behind our demise, poor coaching is definitely one of them.
Leo had zero experience as a head coach - it showed in spades yesterday (and throughout the season). Pat Lam had him in his pocket.
Leister should not be an academy for upcoming coaches (nor should Munster but they have finally resolved that).

and of corse leinster had world class coaches lined up in a queue but appointed a novice?

irishbucsfan

LorMal wrote: »

I think you are setting the bar too low. It's not that long ago when Leinster were the best team in Europe. While there are a few reasons behind our demise, poor coaching is definitely one of them.
Leo had zero experience as a head coach - it showed in spades yesterday (and throughout the season). Pat Lam had him in his pocket.
Leister should not be an academy for upcoming coaches (nor should Munster but they have finally resolved that).

Leinster was Joe Schmidt's first full time head coach position. Michael Cheika joined from Randwick.

MJohnston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Leinster was Joe Schmidt's first full time head coach position. Michael Cheika joined from Randwick.

How much part time and non head coach experience did Joe have?

bilston

Any estimates on the crowd yesterday. Looked around 40,000 (on the tv) to me which if true would have been a great result for the league.

Cosmo Kramer

pickarooney wrote: »

Great to see a team pick two huge centres and not just smash them up the middle. Cronin and McCartney's solo efforts were fantastic viewing too.

Where does SOB 2 go from here? Connacht's back row is as overcrowded as Leinster's these days while the other two provinces are living off scraps.

Disappointed for Cooney that his game was over before it started. Hard to know who is Connacht's most talented 9.

I take if AJ is moving on. Where to?

This fear of going wide has been costing Irish teams long enough.

SOB2 will push himself back into the Connacht 15 before too long, I think he has a higher ceiling than McKeon. I would see Connacht's back row longer term as SOB/Heenan/Masterson. All three are potential Irish international caps this side of the next World Cup (but of course back row is an incredibly competitive area in Irish rugby). NFM is another who could challenge for a starting spot based on what little we've seen of him and Heenan's injury record.

Marmion is still deservedly ahead of Cooney, although Cooney has done well when fit. Marmion's speed of pass is important to Connacht's open style of rugby.

AJ is going to Sale. It's a shame he's NIQ as he would have been kept on otherwise but if he hadn't gone down the US route he might never have become a pro rugby player. Connacht can't have two NIQ 10s and have hung their hat on Boshoff. Hopefully he can deliver.