Leinster V Rugby's Biggest Bandwagon; 28/5/2016 17:30 Murrayfield: SS3 & TG4

CatFromHue

I thought TOH moved his foot abit after he fell but Mick K dropped like a bag of spuds.

Billysays no

freyners wrote: »

Right so sufficiently dried out.

Some of my thoughts.

Leinster unlucky with the disallowed Kirchner try. Doubt it would change the game.

I didn't understand why Nigel okayed on when toh went down after blowing up the game immediately for Kearney until I watched back. Toh made some sorted of response. Was bloody furious at the time but accepted it now

Buckley was sorely sorely missed yesterday. Last loughney was quite good outside the scrum but it was the only method Leinster had of exerting pressure.

I really got upset about this. And yet it was the fault of Nigel Owens on that one. I was really upset with the Leinster players for playing on but in retrospect Owens should have pulled it up. I was in the middle of Leinster fans and I confused the ****e out of them. I applauded what Connacht did and I applauded what leinster did. I shouted go luke as much as I said go niyi. Gave my Connacht flag to two kids from Dublin in front of me, Their parents had no objection, they were loving Connacht as much as I was. And they genuinely were great. I give huge credit to Leinster fans. Nice people. It wasn't easy for them but they were great

freyners

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Yeah, it was clear watching it on TV that Nigel was talking to O'Halloran as he was on the ground and was keeping an eye to see if play was moving away, which it was. It may not have been clear from the stands but surely Nigel is a trusted enough ref that people shouldn't have felt the need to boo it.

I was in section W24 and it looked like he dropped stone dead so I can understand it fully.

Emotions were running incredibly high at the time and people were well oiled so it combined into one. It looked like an incredibly inconsistent decision were I was from. Without a ref link none could have known the difference till later

nuac

congrats Connacht

I remember when the IRFU tried to write off Connacht Rugby

Now if Mayo win the next All Ireland we will be really happy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Billysays no wrote: »

I really got upset about this. And yet it was the fault of Nigel Owens on that one. I was really upset with the Leinster players for playing on but in retrospect Owens should have pulled it up.

You were upset with Leinster for playing by the rules of the sport? Or you're upset with Owens for calling the medics on, making sure O'Halloran was looked after and all without interrupting the game?

Billysays no

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

You were upset with Leinster for playing by the rules of the sport?

Elmo (can I call you that :-)) I was incensed by that, not upset. No matter what team, no matter what move, the value of the player over the game matters. Rugby is doing stuff with a ball. It is irrelevant in comparison to the health of a player. If you turn the clock back to the Connacht Glasgow game and the serious injury Finn Russell incurred I worry more for that than getting a try. I was shocked that players can walk around a seriously injured person to put a ball over a line.

Teferi

Billysays no wrote: »

Elmo (can I call you that :-)) I was incensed by that, not upset. No matter what team, no matter what move, the value of the player over the game matters. Rugby is doing stuff with a ball. It is irrelevant in comparison to the health of a player. If you turn the clock back to the Connacht Glasgow game and the serious injury Finn Russell incurred I worry more for that than getting a try. I was shocked that players can walk around a seriously injured person to put a ball over a line.

It happens all the time. This is a non-issue.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

It's the referees job to make sure players are looked after in situations like that, not the other players. Nigel saw him go down, checked if he was conscious by talking to him, O'Halloran responded, Nigel kept an eye on the play to make sure they didn't come back on top of O'Halloran and waved the medics on. He got treatment as quickly as he would have if play had been stopped.

The incident with Russell and the other player last week was different as one of them wasn't moving imidiately after it happened, same with Kearney yesterday.

Billysays no

Teferi wrote: »

It happens all the time. This is a non-issue.

it does not make it right. if in life you are willing to walk over any body for your own gain then you have missed the point of living.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Billysays no wrote: »

it does not make it right. if in life you are willing to walk over any body for your own gain then you have missed the point of living.

Nobody walked over O'Halloran though. It sounds like what you're annoyed about is Leinster scored while O'Halloran was out of the game.

Billysays no

they just walked around a heavily injured player. Lets just ignore. It was shocking and disturbing that a players welfare was meaningless over getting a stupid ball over a stupid line

Teferi

Billysays no wrote: »

they just walked around a heavily injured player. Lets just ignore. It was shocking and disturbing that a players welfare was meaningless over getting a stupid ball over a stupid line

Yeah, you're just scaldy that Leinster scored.

Play goes on when a player gets injured as long as the injured player isn't in any further danger. It's surprising that you only find fault with this when it is Connacht it effects. Maybe if the player hadn't of made a balls of his challenge and conked himself out, it wouldn't have happened.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Billysays no wrote: »

they just walked around a heavily injured player. Lets just ignore. It was shocking and disturbing that a players welfare was meaningless over getting a stupid ball over a stupid line

Again, it's the referees job to decide if play needs to stop. O'Halloran was seen to by the medics imidiately. The only thing that would have happened differently had play been stopped is Leinster wouldn't have scored.

Bundee Aki hit Sexton pretty hard at one point, and Sexton was already carrying a knock at that stage. I suppose Bundee should have put Sexton's personal welfare first there and stepped aside to let him through.

Being in the front row of the scrum seems like hard work, lot of wear and tear on the neck. Probably best if the players have a chat between themselves and decide to go with uncontested scrums after a certain amount of time.

Maybe the entire second half should be touch rugby?

Billysays no

So there I was in murrayfield. And the leinster fans were wondering who I was supporting (well other, than the scarf, the coat, the flag etc... ) I support rugby and not the injury of any player. And while it is a simple the health of players is paramount. These guys serve us entertainment, they do not deserve to be bypassed in what could possibly be a serious condition. I absolutely screamed my heart out in murrayfield as to how it lowers the value of what we perceive. I would do it as much for a Leinster player as I would for a Connacht player. There is a level of respect that simply has been bypassed. Our players should be injured for our entertainment. Never. I support all four provinces and will never accept that a professional player will simply bypass his distressed colleague (no matter from what provincial team)

Adbrowne

Billysays no wrote: »

So there I was in murrayfield. And the leinster fans were wondering who I was supporting (well other, than the scarf, the coat, the flag etc... ) I support rugby and not the injury of any player. And while it is a simple the health of players is paramount. These guys serve us entertainment, they do not deserve to be bypassed in what could possibly be a serious condition. I absolutely screamed my heart out in murrayfield as to how it lowers the value of what we perceive. I would do it as much for a Leinster player as I would for a Connacht player. There is a level of respect that simply has been bypassed. Our players should be injured for our entertainment. Never. I support all four provinces and will never accept that a professional player will simply bypass his distressed colleague (no matter from what provincial team)

Clearly that didnt happen though. Mick Kearney was motionless, TOH was able to communicate with the ref so the ref played on as play moved away from TOH. It happens numerous times every game. Mitrea stopped the semi final because Finn Russell was out cold. There is a pattern there.

thomond2006

There's always a danger of abuse if the officials stop the game too much for injuries. I haven't seen it back, but if Owens communicated with TOH then there's no issue. The play should only be stopped if medics are needed urgently or if continued play endangers a prone player.

.ak

There was no play happening near the injured player either. That's generally what refs are looking for, play didn't interfere with medics.

mansize

With all due respect I'm sure Nigel Owens is far more au fait with the rules and minutiae of the game than anyone here.

The player wasn't identified as being in immediate danger so play continued- I've seen it in loads of games

BrokenMan

Agreed there was nothing wrong with play going on there. Owens clearly checked with the player and then play moved out of the area.

I will admit I was pissed off at the time though. But that is heat of the moment stuff.

spurscormac

BrokenMan wrote: »

Agreed there was nothing wrong with play going on there. Owens clearly checked with the player and then play moved out of the area.

I will admit I was pissed off at the time though. But that is heat of the moment stuff.

In full agreement with this.
At the time of the incident I was livid. From my viewpoint in the stands, TOH looked out cold. I even heard the noise of the impact it was that bad, so at the time I couldn't understand why play wasn't stopped instantly.

If folks are saying that Nigel verified that Tiernan was conscious and responding, then fair enough to allow play go on.
However, after what we witnessed last week with Finn Russell in the Sportsground, I was anticipating the worst.

In the end, all was good and TOH was surprisingly back on the field by the end of the game.

I'm sure Leinster fans can understand the heat of the moment reaction and hence the booing from the Connacht fans in the ground who don't have the benefit of a replay and close-up of any interaction between teh ref & TOH.

former total

spurscormac wrote: »

I'm sure Leinster fans can understand the heat of the moment reaction and hence the booing from the Connacht fans in the ground who don't have the benefit of a replay and close-up of any interaction between teh ref & TOH.

Absolutely, it's the moaning about it two days later that is baffling.

spurscormac

former total wrote: »

Absolutely, it's the moaning about it two days later that is baffling.

I was over it when the clock got to over 79 minutes and I knew there was no chance of Leinster getting two scores.
I still thought over the past day or so that it should have been stopped, but now willing to take people at their word that TOH responded clearly to the ref, allowing the play to continue.
Haven't had an opportunity to watch the game back yet.

I am fully pro player welfare and it's a very fine line around where you draw the line - we don't want teams taking advantage by faking injuries.

People will disagree on this, I'm just going to move on and continue to enjoy the victory.

On that note, fair play to Leinster supporters, must have been a tough day, but have been magnanimous in defeat.

Shurimgreat

Saturday's game was another wake up call for Irish rugby which of course will be ignored.

Connacht are the future of Irish rugby. It will be interesting to see what support they get from the IRFU or if all their best players will be poached. Hopefully not and they can build on this success to become a European powerhouse. Why stop dreaming now? :cool:

Teferi

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Saturday's game was another wake up call for Irish rugby which of course will be ignored.

Connacht are the future of Irish rugby. It will be interesting to see what support they get from the IRFU or if all their best players will be poached. Hopefully not and they can build on this success to become a European powerhouse. Why stop dreaming now? :cool:

This narrative is boring and incorrect.


Can a Connacht fan please have a chat with the clan and clear this up for them because there's a load of them still peddling it.

Yeah_Right

spurscormac wrote: »

I'm sure Leinster fans can understand the heat of the moment reaction and hence the booing from the Connacht fans in the ground who don't have the benefit of a replay and close-up of any interaction between teh ref & TOH.

Leinster fans may be able to understand (and forgive) the heat of the moment reaction but as a neutral I don't. It pissed me off and made me think that the fans were ignorant of rugby.

Nigel Owens is one of the most respected and experienced refs in the world. Every rugby fan knows this. Watching from the stands or on tv, everyone could see that Owens was right there by the incident and the injured player. Play moved on and while the player got treatment and the fans could see this. The refs are wired for communication with the TJs and the medical teams are all wired up as well. If there had been an issue with the player's welfare, it would have been communicated. The booing and whistling was BS and those that took part in it should hang their heads in shame.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

^ I am inclined to agree. From the stands you may not have been able to see exactly what was happening but surely Nigel is experienced enough to be trusted to do right by the players.

razorblunt

Agreed on the booing and whistling, it was reminiscent of something you'd see at Glasgow and Edinburgh games.
From my seat I could clearly see Owens had a quick check on the player before continuing. Initially I thought it might be a facial injury as he was holding his face rather than his head.

mansize

I don't like booing full stop.

MJohnston

Ach booing is just part and parcel of the whole pantomime aspect of spectator sports. It's pretty harmless. The only time it's really bad, imo, is when people are booing their own team for malicious reasons.

BrokenMan

I'm pretty sure Nigel Owens didn't lose any sleep over a bit of booing

b.gud

Teferi wrote: »

This narrative is boring and incorrect.


Can a Connacht fan please have a chat with the clan and clear this up for them because there's a load of them still peddling it.

Can a Leinster fan please have a chat with the other fans and let them know that just because you went a season without winning a trophy doesn't mean you should call for your coach to be sacked, this isn't soccer.

Tarring all fans with the same brush is boring and incorrect

Utopia Parkway

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Leinster fans may be able to understand (and forgive) the heat of the moment reaction but as a neutral I don't. It pissed me off and made me think that the fans were ignorant of rugby.

Nigel Owens is one of the most respected and experienced refs in the world. Every rugby fan knows this. Watching from the stands or on tv, everyone could see that Owens was right there by the incident and the injured player. Play moved on and while the player got treatment and the fans could see this. The refs are wired for communication with the TJs and the medical teams are all wired up as well. If there had been an issue with the player's welfare, it would have been communicated. The booing and whistling was BS and those that took part in it should hang their heads in shame.

I don't think it would have been clear from the stands at all unless you were relatively close to the incident. At first it looked like TOH was out cold. Owens was kinda near him but wasn't clear at all that there was any kind of exchange between them as TOH barely moved. Then play just continued and the medical team ran on.

Obviously the game was stopped in the first half when Kearney got his head knock so the crowd were probably confused as to why it continued this time. Unaware that TOH had been able to verbally respond.

Yeah_Right

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I don't think it would have been clear from the stands at all unless you were relatively close to the incident. At first it looked like TOH was out cold. Owens was kinda near him but wasn't clear at all that there was any kind of exchange between them as TOH barely moved. Then play just continued and the medical team ran on.

Obviously the game was stopped in the first half when Kearney got his head knock so the crowd were probably confused as to why it continued this time. Unaware that TOH had been able to verbally respond.

Do you agree that Owens is an experienced ref? Do you agree that the match officials are all wired up for communication? As are each team's medical and support staff? If the answer is yes, then the booing and whistling was stupid and ignorant. And indefensible.

Teferi

b.gud wrote: »

Teferi wrote: »

This narrative is boring and incorrect.


Can a Connacht fan please have a chat with the clan and clear this up for them because there's a load of them still peddling it.

Can a Leinster fan please have a chat with the other fans and let them know that just because you went a season without winning a trophy doesn't mean you should call for your coach to be sacked, this isn't soccer.

Tarring all fans with the same brush is boring and incorrect

Isn't it just lucky for me that I used the qualifier "loads" instead of tarring everyone with the same brush.

Zzippy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Yeah, it was clear watching it on TV that Nigel was talking to O'Halloran as he was on the ground and was keeping an eye to see if play was moving away, which it was. It may not have been clear from the stands but surely Nigel is a trusted enough ref that people shouldn't have felt the need to boo it.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Do you agree that Owens is an experienced ref? Do you agree that the match officials are all wired up for communication? As are each team's medical and support staff? If the answer is yes, then the booing and whistling was stupid and ignorant. And indefensible.

First of all, I was in a predominantly neutral section of the stand. Most of the fans around me were Scottish. They were whistling and booing too, it wasn't all Connacht, and there were a LOT of neutrals at the game, so it sounded a lot worse. Secondly, fans were pissed off because Owens blew up instantly in the first half when Kearney went down. From the perspective of the stands, TOH seemed to go down just as hard and be out cold. The booing was for inconsistency and fans were shouting at Owens to stop play as soon as he went down, before Leinster looked anywhere near scoring a try.
As for Owens being a trusted ref and above criticism, I seem to recall reading a lot of criticism of him on the match thread from Leinster fans. And while it might not have been as loud, the forward pass decision was booed and whistled once it went on the big screen in the ground. Perhaps all fans should refrain from booing, get out their phones and start venting their outrage on internet forums instead, where it's apparently more acceptable...

Teferi wrote: »

This narrative is boring and incorrect.


Can a Connacht fan please have a chat with the clan and clear this up for them because there's a load of them still peddling it.

Is there not some truth to it, as while the IRFU did increase funding to Connacht, the level of funding AFAIK is still less than that of the other provinces? Not including the additional difference made by central contracts. Please correct me if I'm wrong, if you know otherwise.

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

Is there not some truth to it, as while the IRFU did increase funding to Connacht, the level of funding AFAIK is still less than that of the other provinces? Not including the additional difference made by central contracts. Please correct me if I'm wrong, if you know otherwise.

To say "It'll be interesting to see what support" Connacht get from the IRFU is to be totally ignorant of the amount of work and resources that has already been invested.

I thought I wouldn't mind if connacht won. My true colours came out as soon as connacht got the first score. I couldn't even slightly cheer for connacht when it came down to it :pac:

Zzippy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

To say "It'll be interesting to see what support" Connacht get from the IRFU is to be totally ignorant of the amount of work and resources that has already been invested.

I don't disagree with you, but most casual fans are unaware of what resources have been committed, so it's no surprise it's a popular perception. If the IRFU were more transparent about the level of funding to each province it might go a long way to ending that stereotype view.

Podge_irl

Zzippy wrote: »

I don't disagree with you, but most casual fans are unaware of what resources have been committed, so it's no surprise it's a popular perception. If the IRFU were more transparent about the level of funding to each province it might go a long way to ending that stereotype view.

Difficult to be transparent without basically just listing the salaries of the centrally contracted players. But yes, the perception is part reality, part history and part poor PR.

Gotta say, I've never actually heard anyone booing over a game not being stopped for an injury. Seems a bit weird to me.

Congrats Connacht.

Teferi

Zzippy wrote: »

Is there not some truth to it, as while the IRFU did increase funding to Connacht, the level of funding AFAIK is still less than that of the other provinces? Not including the additional difference made by central contracts. Please correct me if I'm wrong, if you know otherwise.

"All their best players are being poached".

Total, unadulterated nonsense.

freyners

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Do you agree that Owens is an experienced ref? Do you agree that the match officials are all wired up for communication? As are each team's medical and support staff? If the answer is yes, then the booing and whistling was stupid and ignorant. And indefensible.

Do you accept that in the heat of the moment most people would not realise this?? Very easy to criticise the reaction in hindsight but when it looked like the complete opposite of the decision he made earlier I think its understandable.

Doubt Nigel gave a **** either

Yeah_Right

Zzippy wrote: »

First of all, I was in a predominantly neutral section of the stand. Most of the fans around me were Scottish. They were whistling and booing too, it wasn't all Connacht, and there were a LOT of neutrals at the game, so it sounded a lot worse. Secondly, fans were pissed off because Owens blew up instantly in the first half when Kearney went down. From the perspective of the stands, TOH seemed to go down just as hard and be out cold. The booing was for inconsistency and fans were shouting at Owens to stop play as soon as he went down, before Leinster looked anywhere near scoring a try.
As for Owens being a trusted ref and above criticism, I seem to recall reading a lot of criticism of him on the match thread from Leinster fans. And while it might not have been as loud, the forward pass decision was booed and whistled once it went on the big screen in the ground. Perhaps all fans should refrain from booing, get out their phones and start venting their outrage on internet forums instead, where it's apparently more acceptable...




Is there not some truth to it, as while the IRFU did increase funding to Connacht, the level of funding AFAIK is still less than that of the other provinces? Not including the additional difference made by central contracts. Please correct me if I'm wrong, if you know otherwise.

Hold on. You quote some questions I asked and didn't answer any of them. I never said Owens was above criticism. Just that he was right next to the incident. Or couldn't you see that? What difference to the injured player, would there have been if the ref had stopped the game?

So the neutrals near you were as ignorant as anyone else booing and whistling.

Yeah_Right

freyners wrote: »

Do you accept that in the heat of the moment most people would not realise this?? Very easy to criticise the reaction in hindsight but when it looked like the complete opposite of the decision he made earlier I think its understandable.

Doubt Nigel gave a **** either

I was criticizing as it happened. Not in hindsight.

its_phil

Zzippy wrote: »

I don't disagree with you, but most casual fans are unaware of what resources have been committed, so it's no surprise it's a popular perception. If the IRFU were more transparent about the level of funding to each province it might go a long way to ending that stereotype view.

The budget is on a par with the other provinces but the provinces have their own commercial income which will always dwarf ours. That's our problem not theirs, although the craic with Thomond does hit a nerve but that's a different can of worms. Central contracts are for players, not provinces. I had huge criticism of Henshaws central contract putting Connacht out of pocket until one poster pointed out that the first 100k was covered by the province.

There isn't a leg to stand on anymore with the criticism of the IRFU backing Connacht. They played their part in the win on Saturday whether the casual observer knows it or not.

I've said it for a while, credit to the IRFU for backing Connacht.

freyners

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I was criticizing as it happened. Not in hindsight.

Did you watch it on Tv or were you there? Because it looked like a carbon copy of what happened with Kearney but a different handling by Nigel.

I'm not defending it. But I can understand why it happened.

I regret my post earlier because its a silly thing to be discussing so much after a great game

Padkir

razorblunt wrote: »

Agreed on the booing and whistling, it was reminiscent of something you'd see at Glasgow and Edinburgh games.
From my seat I could clearly see Owens had a quick check on the player before continuing. Initially I thought it might be a facial injury as he was holding his face rather than his head.

I must say; I was in W18 and was a bit embarrassed by some of the booing and whistling from some of my fellow connacht fans up there (I say some as the majority were fine and some were actually telling others there was no need for the booing, etc.)... Like most, I though play should have stopped and mighe have been giving out about it, etc. But no need for the jeering!

I could potentially understand it from some bandwagon fans but these are long time season tickets holders and some of it was disgraceful.

Zzippy

Podge_irl wrote: »

Difficult to be transparent without basically just listing the salaries of the centrally contracted players. But yes, the perception is part reality, part history and part poor PR.

Gotta say, I've never actually heard anyone booing over a game not being stopped for an injury. Seems a bit weird to me.

Congrats Connacht.

Is it not straightforward to list the funding allocated to each province and an overall figure for central contracts? AFAIK the IRFU pays the first 100K of centrally contracted players, the province pays the rest. Or just come out and say all provinces are funded equally, or not. Agree on the part poor PR and history.
The game was stopped instantly in the first half for an injury that seemed, at the time, identical to the injury to TOH. From the stands TOH appeared to be out cold. If Owens hadn't stopped the game so quickly for Kearney in the first half there would have been no booing.

Teferi wrote: »

"All their best players are being poached".

Total, unadulterated nonsense.

I didn't mention that bit in my post at all, your post was not clear which part of his post you thought was nonsense. I mentioned the idea of unfair funding being a popular perception, if you care to address that I'd be happy to know if it's just perception or still a reality. If it's still the case that funding is not equal then clearly his post is not total, unadulterated nonsense.

OldRio

Anyways........Against the head is worth watching.

Podge_irl

Zzippy wrote: »

Is it not straightforward to list the funding allocated to each province and an overall figure for central contracts? AFAIK the IRFU pays the first 100K of centrally contracted players, the province pays the rest. Or just come out and say all provinces are funded equally, or not. Agree on the part poor PR and history.
The game was stopped instantly in the first half for an injury that seemed, at the time, identical to the injury to TOH. From the stands TOH appeared to be out cold. If Owens hadn't stopped the game so quickly for Kearney in the first half there would have been no booing.

The IRFU pay the entirety of the centrally contracted player. They pay the first 100k of NIE contracts. Or at least that was my (potentially wildly wrong) understanding. I highly doubt the provinces are funded equally but I'm not entirely sure what benefit there is to detailing to what degree they are not.

I'm just saying I genuinely have no recollection of experiencing a similar incident. And my immediate reaction certainly wouldn't be to boo - that implies to me that I would think its a concious act of the ref to ignore an injured player which is just a bit weird.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Zzippy wrote: »

Perhaps all fans should refrain from booing, get out their phones and start venting their outrage on internet forums instead, where it's apparently more acceptable...

No perhaps about it. Booing is pointless and unnecessary. The only time I'll even consider accepting crowd booing is if a replay shows a player doing something extremely dirty.
I don't know why you're taking it so personally, Ulster fans have to put up with this most weeks. It was a running joke in the match thread last week.

As for having a dig at people discussing it on a discussion forum, at the time or 2 days later, well.... get off your high horse. That's what the forum is here for.