taking house back for my own use

4ensic15

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

As I said to the other poster, can you provide evidence to support your interpretation?

The RTA allows recfovery of the house for the landlord's occupation. The o/p has clearly stated that they require the house for their vacation. What more evidence do you need?
I doubt if this is the true reason. The o/p has another thread where there are difficulties with the same tenants.

foggy_lad

4ensic15 wrote: »

The RTA allows recfovery of the house for the landlord's occupation. The o/p has clearly stated that they require the house for their vacation. What more evidence do you need?
I doubt if this is the true reason. The o/p has another thread where there are difficulties with the same tenants.

To me it seems that a lot of people are thinking that renting out a house on airbnb will bring in more per month for a few nights occupancy than renting out long term and they don't have to worry about wear and tear or tax on the rental income.

The sooner that airbnb is banned in most countries the better it will be for all and the housing crisis will become a thing of the past.

Eric Cartman

athtrasna wrote: »

If you want to be fussy, chances are it's mostly the bank's house but I can assure you a rented dwelling can be a home and in this case the tenants are there five years so I'd be pretty sure they consider it their home!

As for talking to a solicitor, that would be a waste of money imo, the RTA is one of the most relatively clear pieces of legislation in recent years. I suspect you're referring to that legislation that is still on the statute books but predates the foundation of the state. I have yet to see evidence of success using that.

if your referring to that free man of the land crap, i can assure you I am not. I believe the OP is looking to take the property for their personal habitation and while not their PPR, a solicitor may be able to outline how far you can push the terms of a 'need' for the property.

4ensic15

The Residential Tenancies Act has been criticised by Ms. Justice laffoy of the Supreme Court. "In my view, the provisions of the Act of 2004 for the valid termination of a Part 4 tenancy for non-payment of rent are very technical and confusing." Canty v Private Residential Tenancies Board 2007.

The Act has been amended on a number of occasions to correct errors. there are still many ambiguities in its interpretation. Most solicitors haven't a clue about it. As recently as this year the Residential tenancies Board lost a High Court case on the interpretation of the Act.

A solicitor is unlikely to be able to help much as most would have no idea and the only way to test any advise they might give would be to serve a notice of termination and see if the tenant would push it to a hearing and subsequently on a point of law to the High Court.

yqtwqxqm

Bluebells1 wrote: »

I am thinking of giving my tenant notice as my husband and I would like to start using our house some weekends as our holiday home.

In order to cover expenses we were thinking of doing weekly holiday letting for just a few weeks in the summer. Is this allowed as Tenant is there over 5 years?

My brother did almost exactly this.
I dont know what the specifics of your situation are, but what he did was this.

My brother contacted the PRTB and revenue to run it by them before he did anything. He wanted to know where he stood both on the law and on the tax front.

My brothers PPR is a house he owns in Enniscorthy. The rental is in Dublin.
Tenant was in the property for two and a half years.
He wanted to use the property to stay in for the odd night himself, but to still rent out the rooms on a room only basis.
PRTB and revenue said it was fine.
He gave the tenant the required notice. The tenant did a bit of threatening etc and contacted the PRTB to complain, threshold too, but my brother was happy he was in the right (thats why you need to check it out before doing it).
Threshold actually told the tenant that my brother couldnt give them their notice, but they were wrong according to the PRTB.
So anyway, he gave them their notice stating he required it for personal use and they moved out. He got a tenants in on a room rental basis and kept one room for himself to use whenever he needs to. Probably once a month.
He now does AirBnB instead though and uses the property for his family as a holiday home or weekend retreat whenever he wants to.
Its all working out quite well for him.

Thats the gist of it anyway.

It was handy for him getting an answer from the PRTB because it turned out he had an old acquaintance from school who worked there and the answers came quickly. I dont know how fast they will respond, but check with them first before you do anything.

4ensic15

The PRTB do not do advice. The tenants moved out on getting notice. What if the tenants had objected and it went to a hearing and an appeal to the High Court?

LiamoSail

foggy_lad wrote: »

To me it seems that a lot of people are thinking that renting out a house on airbnb will bring in more per month for a few nights occupancy than renting out long term and they don't have to worry about wear and tear or tax on the rental income.

The sooner that airbnb is banned in most countries the better it will be for all and the housing crisis will become a thing of the past.

LL aren't using Airbnb because it's so attractive, they're using it because the rental market is so unattractive, even in a time of high demand and hence rents.

Offer more protection to LL's regarding non-paying tenants, do something about the tax rate and the issue of long term lets being changed to short term will resolve itself to a large degree.

Michael D Not Higgins

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

It was handy for him getting an answer from the PRTB because it turned out he had an old acquaintance from school who worked there and the answers came quickly.

That sounds more like a personal opinion rather than a clarification of the law. As stated, the PRTB do not give advice and the tenant may have thought it was in their best interest to just leave rather than fight it.

Graham

LiamoSail wrote: »

This seems absolutely outrageous to me, the idea that as owner you can't recover the house for your own use, even if that use is only periodical.

Landlords forego some of the rights they would normally enjoy as a property owner in return for (usually significant) amounts of money.

That's hardly likely to come as a surprise to most landlords.

Sunny Dayz

Hi OP,
Now I've never been a landlord, but do you need to give a tenant a reason to leave, once you give them the prescribed and adequate notice?


Just to note - and it's probably not addressing your initial query - but why would you want to get rid of paying tenants who have been in your property the last number of years, and I'm assuming they have been good tenants to you. Why would you want to lose them for the sake of having the house to your own use for a few weeks of the year? Depending on where the rental property is, realistically the holiday rental market in Ireland is about 4 months max (May-Aug). Are you going to have the house idle all winter? Are you going to visit the property every week for new holidaymakers to change the bed linen, show them around the property etc.

Graham

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Hi OP,
Now I've never been a landlord, but do you need to give a tenant a reason to leave, once you give them the prescribed and adequate notice?

Yes, a part 4 tenancy can only be terminated early for one of a handful of permitted reasons.

Sunny Dayz

Graham wrote: »

Yes, a part 4 tenancy can only be terminated early for one of a handful of permitted reasons.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html
"If the landlord plans to change the business use of the property (for example, convert it to office use)"


I'm guessing changing the type of letting from a residential letting to a holiday letting doesn't fall under this? And also, I may be splitting hairs, but would holiday rental be classed as rental income (Case V) or Case I like B&B income? If it would be classed as Case I then would that not be a change of business use?

foggy_lad

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Hi OP,
Now I've never been a landlord, but do you need to give a tenant a reason to leave, once you give them the prescribed and adequate notice?


Just to note - and it's probably not addressing your initial query - but why would you want to get rid of paying tenants who have been in your property the last number of years, and I'm assuming they have been good tenants to you. Why would you want to lose them for the sake of having the house to your own use for a few weeks of the year? Depending on where the rental property is, realistically the holiday rental market in Ireland is about 4 months max (May-Aug). Are you going to have the house idle all winter? Are you going to visit the property every week for new holidaymakers to change the bed linen, show them around the property etc.

It all comes down to the extra money, less tax and less wear and tear from renting out a house through AirBnB.

Calhoun

jcd5971 wrote: »

Riiiight then.

My point is, while obviously I don't agree with a landlord evicting somebody to then re-let for a higher rent.

I find it strange that they can't just decide "I don't want to rent at all anymore I want to use my second home for myself as a holiday home" as after all it is their asset.

I never disputed the law in my post, and just for clarification I rent myself and own no property.

I merely posted a point of view. And stated I was trying to see it from both points of view.

I am happy to debate with you or have a conversation, but your post is a bit too vitriolic and "ranty" for me.

I think your post is a good illustration of what is wrong with allot of have a go landlords out there. People are entitled to have as many properties as they like but as soon as you rent it out you then become a business. As such the laws in place on renting are consumer protection to ensure they aren't treated unfairly.

Don't get me wrong there are allot of professional landlords who take it very seriously out there this board has a few who understand they are running a business.

LiamoSail

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html
"If the landlord plans to change the business use of the property (for example, convert it to office use)"


I'm guessing changing the type of letting from a residential letting to a holiday letting doesn't fall under this? And also, I may be splitting hairs, but would holiday rental be classed as rental income (Case V) or Case I like B&B income? If it would be classed as Case I then would that not be a change of business use?

Airbnb is taxed as trading income

jcd5971

Calhoun wrote:

I think your post is a good illustration of what is wrong with allot of have a go landlords out there. People are entitled to have as many properties as they like but as soon as you rent it out you then become a business. As such the laws in place on renting are consumer protection to ensure they aren't treated unfairly.

Dude I am not a landlord never have been.

I am a renter have been evicted for dubious reasons before, but where I'm from houses are easy enough to get so I never bothered fighting it was easier not to.

I have also rented for the last while of a sound landlord and some of the tennants he has are Terrible.

It goes both ways

Calhoun

jcd5971 wrote: »

Dude I am not a landlord never have been.

I am a renter have been evicted for dubious reasons before, but where I'm from houses are easy enough to get so I never bothered fighting it was easier not to.

I have also rented for the last while of a sound landlord and some of the tennants he has are Terrible.

It goes both ways

It does go both ways and there needs to be adequate protection on both sides of the business model.

My answer was directly pointed at your question about why they can't just so what they like with their asset.

yqtwqxqm

OP, im meeting my brother tonight. ill ask him for the exact detail and post again.

athtrasna

Just a reminder that legal advice cannot be given on boards.

Mod

yqtwqxqm

I wasnt giving legal advice. I was describing what my brother did in the same situation as the OP.
But point taken. I'll take it to PM with the OP.

OP i'll PM you shortly with details of exactly my brothers situation.

Also i'll give you the details of how you go about satisfying yourself that you will run into no problems taking your house back legally, fairly and with no issues at all, so you dont have to just take an internet posters word for it.

I got a few things wrong when I described it previously, and will correct them in the PM as I found out the full story. Its much closer to your situation than I even thought it was before.

Give me a few mins to write it in a PM

Bluebells1

Thanks for all the advice

Bluebells1

We are thinking of taking our house back to use at weekends. If we do this and were to decide to re-rent it is there a period of time we are not allowed to do so? Thank you

ED E

The previous tenant gets first refusal if you re-let the premises:

If the landlord needs the property for their own use or for an immediate family member, you must be given the following information in writing, along with the notice of termination: the person’s name; their relationship to the landlord; and how long they will occupy the dwelling. The notice must also include a statutory declaration stating that the landlord needs the property for their own use or for an immediate family member. The RTB’s sample notice of termination when the landlord needs the property (pdf) contains the required information and a sample statutory declaration.

Under section 56 of the 2004 Act, you can complain to the RTB in the following situations:

If your landlord has ended your tenancy for one of the 3 reasons specified above, the property becomes available for re-letting and they do not offer you a tenancy

Bluebells1

After how long could we relet it and not offer it to the original tenants, surely there is a time limit?

the_syco

How long have the current tenants been in the house for?

Graham

the_syco wrote: »

How long have the current tenants been in the house for?

Over 5 years when the OP last asked the question:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057602994

athtrasna

Mod note

OP just because you didn't get the answers you wanted last time it doesn't mean you'll get them this time. One thread is enough.

Bluebells1

I posted here last night regarding moving back into my house.. I logged on a couple of moments ago to read a response from a 'mod' but the thread is deleted.

I asked a question as I didn't know that answer, I thought that was what these forums were for.

I previously asked a similar question recently but didn't get a definitive answer as the post went off on a tangant so that's why I reposted.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Bluebells1 wrote: »

I posted here last night regarding moving back into my house.. I logged on a couple of moments ago to read a response from a 'mod' but the thread is deleted.

I asked a question as I didn't know that answer, I thought that was what these forums were for.

I previously asked a similar question recently but didn't get a definitive answer as the post went off on a tangant so that's why I reposted.

Either discuss with a mod or raise it in the dispute resolution forum.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1397

The_Conductor

Bluebells1 wrote: »

I posted here last night regarding moving back into my house.. I logged on a couple of moments ago to read a response from a 'mod' but the thread is deleted.

I asked a question as I didn't know that answer, I thought that was what these forums were for.

I previously asked a similar question recently but didn't get a definitive answer as the post went off on a tangant so that's why I reposted.

Bluebells1- we do not permit multiple threads on the same subject- I merged your threads together (your thread from last night is not deleted- its merged into a Super Bluebells1 thread- as indeed is your post wondering where it went........).

Everyone- keep on topic.

Bluebells- if you feel the thread is veering off topic- use the report post function and a moderator can evaluate the post in question- or PM one of the mods, and we can have a look at it.

Now- ontopic, folks.........