wicklow 200

brocbrocach

I don't mean to single anyone out and plenty have had a go here at the organisation, especially about lack of water at certain points (seems to be justified enough) but there comes a certain point where you have to draw the line of personal responsibility for the day. Any cyclist who can do 100 or 200k should be capable of feeding themselves at a pinch, they should relish not being mollycoddled, either by the mother-hen groups or a race organiser. 40 quid really is not a lot of money compared to any other major event, think the ROK or Giro Sportive or a football game or a concert. Nobody's going home rolling in the dough after it.
I think the WW200 is a gem of event and I feel lucky I live close enough to it to be able to partake in it. The people who volunteer to marshall, look after food, fix punctures etc, sign people in at the centre, are fantastic and I'd like to thank them sincerely for the long day they put in. I hope everyone who cycled thanked at least one marshall on the day.

sullivlo

brocbrocach wrote: »

I don't mean to single anyone out and plenty have had a go here at the organisation, especially about lack of water at certain points (seems to be justified enough) but there comes a certain point where you have to draw the line of personal responsibility for the day. Any cyclist who can do 100 or 200k should be capable of feeding themselves at a pinch, they should relish not being mollycoddled, either by the mother-hen groups or a race organiser. 40 quid really is not a lot of money compared to any other major event, think the ROK or Giro Sportive or a football game or a concert. Nobody's going home rolling in the dough after it.
I think the WW200 is a gem of event and I feel lucky I live close enough to it to be able to partake in it. The people who volunteer to marshall, look after food, fix punctures etc, sign people in at the centre, are fantastic and I'd like to thank them sincerely for the long day they put in. I hope everyone who cycled thanked at least one marshall on the day.

I agree to a point, cyclists should be able to feed themselves. I will always have enough food in my jersey in case there's none at stops.

However the water situation is different. On a 200 I would probably need 6-8 bottles (depending on the weather). There's no way I could carry that amount of water from the start, and it's not unreasonable to expect water to be available at pre-advertised food stops.

Didn't do ww200. May make it a challenge/goal over the next few years when I get better at hills.

Mercian Pro

Mercian Pro wrote: »

If you look up Sean Rowe on Facebook, there is a good set taken from an overpass on the N11 soon after the start.

Lots more photos from Sean Rowe on his FB page this morning.

cajonlardo

brocbrocach wrote: »

I don't mean to single anyone out and plenty have had a go here at the organisation, especially about lack of water at certain points (seems to be justified enough) but there comes a certain point where you have to draw the line of personal responsibility for the day. Any cyclist who can do 100 or 200k should be capable of feeding themselves at a pinch, they should relish not being mollycoddled, either by the mother-hen groups or a race organiser. 40 quid really is not a lot of money compared to any other major event, think the ROK or Giro Sportive or a football game or a concert. Nobody's going home rolling in the dough after it.

Agree 100%
In future I will look after my own needs entirely.

So feck the ivca and their half arsed effort - if they want to leave people without water and hand them a sandwich that is entirely filled with bread crumb stuffing - or worse still nothing at all ,then they can swing for €40 hard earned cash. If they don't want to give the very basics , then I don't want anything at all - I can ride those roads any day I feel like it - including the day the run their event.

Not rolling in money?

Didn't I read somewhere the amount the ivca has in the bank? I will try and find it but unless my memory is going completely they are most definitely rolling it.

I had a good day on the bike and stand over my thanks to the marshals but I'm not entertaining any excuses for the IVCA deteriorating treatment of cyclist who support them and on whose support that organisation does so well.

I was on the fence about this up until the excuses were forthcoming

smacl

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Lots more photos from Sean Rowe on his FB page this morning.

Linky

Lumen

cajonlardo wrote: »

Agree 100%
In future I will look after my own needs entirely.

So feck the ivca and their half arsed effort - if they want to leave people without water and hand them a sandwich that is entirely filled with bread crumb stuffing - or worse still nothing at all ,then they can swing for €40 hard earned cash. If they don't want to give the very basics , then I don't want anything at all - I can ride those roads any day I feel like it - including the day the run their event.

I'm sure your massive sense of entitlement will be sorely missed.

happyhappy

A bit of personal responsibility is needed. You wouldn't go for a 200k drive without enough petrol.

If you are running short on water surely you can fill up in the many shops and garages that you pass, especially when you know there are hard climbs up the road. There is little point starting a climb with half a bottle of water. A bit of pre planning here is all that's needed. Anyone doing this next year who is overly concerned with water intake and is put off by the water drought stories do the following:

For the 200:

Two full bottles at start. Then make sure you have refilled to having two full bottles leaving laragh for the wicklow gap - there's no way you will empty both before getting to Hollywood on the far side.

Refill at baltinglass and rehydrate during the break. Now is the longest stretch without shops but 2 bottles is adequate to get you over the climbs after taking on water at the break. Put a small 300 ml bottle in your pocket if you think you need more. Get water at the glenmalure inn which is between the SM and SE climbs if you are really struggling.

Rehydrate at rathdrum break and refill again. There is now loads of shops on the last 80k if you run out now again.

Without going too mad that's 8- 10 750 ml bottles of water plus extra at breaks.

It's a great event which caters for elite athletes (eve mc crystal and Katie dunleavy using is as training for Rio) down to people who only got on a bike to train for the event for charity and long may it continue into the future.

This sport is supposed to be tough and challenging - if it wasn't anyone could do it lads!!

nilhg

I had a great day out this year, for various reasons I had decided that I wouldn't be chasing any time or trying to better any PBs and by and large on the day managed to stick to that, had a few nice conversations with folk I met along the road, hopped on the back of a few trains that came by and hopped off with no worries when I reckoned things might be getting a bit hairy, in general just rolled along at a pace that suited myself and my mate that I went round with.

I'd agree though that the general organisation didn't seem as sharp as other years, I had heard long ago that there was a change internally in the IVCA in how the event was being run and I'm sure the new team will learn some lessons. Food especially seemed to be less plentiful and with less variety, I cannot understand why there was no fruit available, I don't know if anyone here who did it is a coeliac but there didn't seem to be much for them.

There was plenty of water on SM when we were there, so no issue for me then but even after topping up in Rathdrum we had to stop at a shop in Glenealy to fill again for the last push home, a van full of water somewhere on the side of the road in the last 30km wouldn't have gone astray.

One thing I do think should be considered for the event is allowing anyone that wants to start (for the 200 anyway) in Baltinglass, it'd shorten the trip for anyone coming up from the south and midlands, spread riders out more over the route (could be a good or bad thing according to your point of view I know) at the cost of a bit more complexity in the organisation.

While there are issues I wouldn't like to put anyone off doing it, it's a great event, with a great heritage and even though lads say "oh I'll cycle the route the week after and feck the bloody IVCA" it's not the same, you wouldn't meet the variety of people that are out and about on the second sunday in June, that's what makes the event for me.

07Lapierre

cajonlardo wrote: »

Agree 100%
In future I will look after my own needs entirely.

So feck the ivca and their half arsed effort - if they want to leave people without water and hand them a sandwich that is entirely filled with bread crumb stuffing - or worse still nothing at all ,then they can swing for €40 hard earned cash. If they don't want to give the very basics , then I don't want anything at all - I can ride those roads any day I feel like it - including the day the run their event.

Not rolling in money?

Didn't I read somewhere the amount the ivca has in the bank? I will try and find it but unless my memory is going completely they are most definitely rolling it.

I had a good day on the bike and stand over my thanks to the marshals but I'm not entertaining any excuses for the IVCA deteriorating treatment of cyclist who support them and on whose support that organisation does so well.

I was on the fence about this up until the excuses were forthcoming

I had an entry for the WW200. When I woke up on Sunday and saw the Weather, I rolled over and went back to sleep! ...When will the IVCA send out my Sandwich, bottle of water and Medal? After all, I paid for it!

Macy0161

I thought the sambo's were decent tbh, including the chicken and stuffing. It was my first sportive, but they were better than most other events I've been at that have laid on food.

I had no issues getting water, but maybe knowing the lay of the land helped a bit, I wasn't panicked about it either as I couldn't see any issue getting water in The Lodge at the bottom of SM if I was stuck (even if I had to drop something nominal for a pint of cordial). My only issue would've been the temptation of a St Kevins Red whilst there! There wouldn't be much difference stopping at the bottom than stopping at the top?

Maybe I just have low expectations, but about the only thing I'd say they could do with dropping is the cert at the end which slowed down the process at that stage when all I wanted to do was get a brew and get home.

smacl

sullivlo wrote: »

Didn't do ww200. May make it a challenge/goal over the next few years when I get better at hills.

Go for it, plenty of us suffer big on the hills and that's really what makes the day what it is. As for water, while I found it great this year, even if you miss a water stop there are other opportunities for a top-up.

ronanocon

They get a pass from me for the chocolate and marshmallow bars alone.

As has been said above, you need to take some level of responsibility and train for the day, that includes fuel and hydration. If you need to fill you bottles every 50k or so, plan for it. I had two bottles, filled them at the two feed stops and that was plenty for me.

Personally, I wouldn't rely on the more temporary stops on top of the climbs as they're much harder to stock for the organisers.

talkabout

Really enjoyed the day out and thought the route was very well marshalled. We didn't stop at the first food stop because of the long lines but headed up the road about 10km and stopped at a supervalu for some grub and water. Would have liked some pasta etc at the end before a long drive back to Donegal but wasn't a big problem. Thanks to Terrydel for his handy guide on the hills, found it really useful.

cajonlardo

Lumen wrote: »

I'm sure your massive sense of entitlement will be sorely missed.

You are fine and dandy with people not getting water at a W200 advertised water stop?

O.K. You've made your personal standard of honesty and and work ethic known.


What is self entitled is a belief that you can advertise services, take payment for said services and then welsh on providing them entirely or else under deliver those services.

More and more people aren't paying the fee but turning up on the day and riding the course - if we are going to look after ourselves then why pay?


However, neither the IVCA or you personally are looking at the likes of the MIck Byrne and aspiring to achieve that standard - its easier and lazier to be money grubbing, mean spirited and downright dis-honest.

neris

are there not a few shops along the way where those who are desperate for water can spend a euro or 2 and but a bottle??

Lumen

cajonlardo wrote: »

You are fine and dandy with people not getting water at a W200 advertised water stop?

O.K. You've made your personal standard of honesty and and work ethic known.

What is self entitled is a belief that you can advertise services, take payment for said services and then welsh on providing them entirely or else under deliver those services.

More and more people aren't paying the fee but turning up on the day and riding the course - if we are going to look after ourselves then why pay?

However, neither the IVCA or you personally are looking at the likes of the MIck Byrne and aspiring to achieve that standard - its easier and lazier to be money grubbing, mean spirited and downright dis-honest.

This is the sort of attitude that makes volunteering for cycling clubs in Ireland so difficult. We actually had a person in our club asking the kit rep to hand deliver a jersey to their home because it was "too inconvenient" to get to the shop where all the kit is held.

Go an take up triathlon if you want a commercially run sport event, then you can moan when your Powerbars aren't the right temperature.

The Wicklow 200 isn't a product. Get over yourself.

cajonlardo

Neris,

If you are referring to my post, I never said I couldn't carry my own food, buy water etc. I have absolutely no problem doing just that and have done many times in events advertised as having no services (Audax) . The point I made was that it is extremely poor form to advertise and take payment for services without providing those services.

And even that is only half the story.

The W200 standard of service falls way short of the likes of the Mick Byrne, S.K - Anyone care to dispute that and provide reasoned argument?
They've been business along time and yet NEVER listen and act to criticism. If you voice dissent you get brain fart throwaway replies as posted above - you won't ever get a reasoned reply. this is because they are fully aware they are chancing their arm.

laraghrider

cajonlardo wrote: »

They've been business along time and yet NEVER listen and act to criticism. If you voice dissent you get brain fart throwaway replies as posted above - you won't ever get a reasoned reply. this is because they are fully aware they are chancing their arm.

Can I ask you what "criticism" you have raised with them and had no official response to lead you to believe they are chancing their arm? Or are you going purely on hearsay?

Reason I ask is that on two occasions in the past, maybe 8 years, I raise some constructive feedback. By no mean criticism. I simply stated an alternative to a particular routing option and layed out why. The following year they changed the route to my suggestion. Another time a few weeks before the event I raise concern over a part of the course. I got a response that they would contact the council, which they did who in turn contacted me and a group of us ended up at the spot of road in question. Come the day of the 200 it had been sorted out.

So I'd ask again, what criticism did you personally and directly raise with them of which they took no notice?

terrydel

talkabout wrote: »

Really enjoyed the day out and thought the route was very well marshaled. We didn't stop at the first food stop because of the long lines but headed up the road about 10km and stopped at a supervalu for some grub and water. Would have like some pasta etc at the end before a long drive back to Donegal but wasn't a big problem. Thanks to Terrydel for his handy guide on the hills, found it really useful.

Ah great to hear someone benefitted from it aside from myself
It helps psychologically if nothing else and to be honest that's the biggest thing for me on this, as I know physically Im well able, and just have to stop me brain from playing tricks on me!
Marshalling was excellent I thought, but after last year, the stops on the 3 main hills were seriously less well provisioned, hence my earlier rant. And the food back at the finish was dreadful imho, that really needs improving. Even the guy serving when I enquired looked well aware of that!
Always enjoy the challenge of it tho, and chatting to people along the route.
I was on a green defy and wearing a black and green Ale top, with me wee card on the top tube :P

ford2600

I first did Wicklow 200 in 06 and 07. The 06 was my first sportive and all I have are good memories.

At the time there was a discussion forum on Wicklow 200 site and both years there were a few who complained about things not being perfect, rip off etc. Most people seemed happy enough in my experience.

I've helped out on a few smaller events in a small way and the work involved to get everything 90% right is huge. At a guess most of the volunteers on Sunday (and Saturday, Friday, and all the other days) would be much happier riding their bikes but help out to put something back. Quite a few probably don't cycle at all I would guess but were persuaded to come along by a loved one.

Comparing event to Mick Byrne 200 isn't fair, Paul O Donoghue is no ordinary man!

I helped organise and ride a M2M with club last year. My experience was very similar with I was leader on a charity cycle from London to Paris years ago; really capable smart people who manage to keep jobs, pay mortgages etc etc turn into infant like creatures when something is "organised".
*we pulled into a village in Fermanagh to have lunch; "where are the toilets", "do they do soup"??
*what time is breakfast etc etc

If a water stop isn't stocked when you get there improvise ffs. It isn't Death Valley, it's 20km at most to next shop.

For a 200km event, you'll burn about 4000-5000 cals and need about 4-5L of water. Not hard to get around an event with 1.5 L capacity and it seems 3/4 organised stops.

I would strongly advise anyone for whom things aren't perfect on their next event to get involved in an event and show everyone how it's done perfectly while you are rolling in it from all the revenue.

BTW I have no connection with those old foggies in IVCA

cajonlardo

Lumen wrote: »

This is the sort of attitude that makes volunteering for cycling clubs in Ireland so difficult. We actually had a person in our club asking the kit rep to hand deliver a jersey to their home because it was "too inconvenient" to get to the shop where all the kit is held.

Go an take up triathlon if you want a commercially run sport event, then you can moan when your Powerbars aren't the right temperature.

The Wicklow 200 isn't a product. Get over yourself.

Good man, more waffle and plenty of it. Do not ,whatever you do ,aspire to improvement - that takes a bit of genuine effort.

I've volunteered for decades and worked as hard as anyone organising events and marshalling ( hence my earlier nod to the marshals who spent their day on the route), so you can keep your self righteous crap to yourself.

If I set about supplying a service and get it wrong I will admit it straight out and work harder next time. If I take your money, you can be guaranteed you will value and hard work and honesty in return.

I haven't the remotest idea what a lazy fecker in your club has to do with me or this discussion?
And if the W200 is not the epitome of a commercial event given the huge amount of money the IVCA take from the public I do not know what is.

Like I said earlier, but you predictably ducked, you have your standards and tbh, they aren't high - defintely not €40 multiplied by several thousand worth

Inquitus

I was Marshalling, with my young fella, from 13:00 to 16:30 in Rathdrum and there was food and water a plenty even for the last few people through. I have ridden the WW200 before and became an IVCA member this year, I thought from what I saw it was well Marshalled, and reasonably well provisioned for. The fact that the hottest, most humid, part of the day corresponded to the time people were climbing Slievemann, it doesn't surprise me that water may have ended up in short supply up there towards to back end of the day. I am sorry if anyone was disappointed, but I do think the event was better run this year than when I last rode it back in 2011, things have definitely improved.

neris

cajonlardo wrote: »

Neris,

If you are referring to my post, I never said I couldn't carry my own food, buy water etc. I have absolutely no problem doing just that and have done many times in events advertised as having no services (Audax) . The point I made was that it is extremely poor form to advertise and take payment for services without providing those services.

And even that is only half the story.

The W200 standard of service falls way short of the likes of the Mick Byrne, S.K - Anyone care to dispute that and provide reasoned argument?
They've been business along time and yet NEVER listen and act to criticism. If you voice dissent you get brain fart throwaway replies as posted above - you won't ever get a reasoned reply. this is because they are fully aware they are chancing their arm.

that wasnt aimed at you or any one in particular it was just a general question as a few people seem to have made the same comment

terrydel

Lumen wrote: »

This is the sort of attitude that makes volunteering for cycling clubs in Ireland so difficult. We actually had a person in our club asking the kit rep to hand deliver a jersey to their home because it was "too inconvenient" to get to the shop where all the kit is held.

Go an take up triathlon if you want a commercially run sport event, then you can moan when your Powerbars aren't the right temperature.

The Wicklow 200 isn't a product. Get over yourself.

I think you are being very unfair there, hes looking for water to be provided as advertised, not asking for a jersey to be hand delivered.
I don't think anyone complaining about the drop in standards this year, certainly not me, is having a go at the volunteers and the spirit of volunteerism in general. That is the bedrock of sport in this country and every other.
They do a fantastic job on the W200, marshalls, those at the food stops etc.
But it is undoubtedly an event that ranks poorly against its peers.
I've done many sportives now and never had a single bad word to say about any. I just think that this is the most disappointing in terms of how the organisers (ivca) look after those on the course. Nobody is asking the earth at all, just to have the organisers who they've paid look after them to a decent standard. Last year was superb, and I for one was actually shocked having only done the 100 previously. I was disappointed that this year didn't match that, principally on the 3 main summits and back at the finish.
But hey ho, that's life.

cajonlardo

laraghrider wrote: »

Can I ask you what "criticism" you have raised with them and had no official response to lead you to believe they are chancing their arm? Or are you going purely on hearsay?

So I'd ask again, what criticism did you personally and directly raise with them of which they took no notice?

Reasonable question

I raised concerns about feed stops and water twice 7-8 years ago in a polite email to the organisers. After the 2nd email and getting non commital replies both times I decided to either ride it and accept the standards or just stay away.
As I posted in my first post on this thread, I was "on the fence" this year until I read excuses and people saying everyone needs to look after themselves etc. and that led me to posting my opinion in the thread in reply. Majority opinion seems to be that it was grand so, no problem, there are plenty more shows in town or if I feel like doing the route I'll do as advised and provide for myself and won't pay the fee.

Bloggsie

From my experience of organising an event, you will never please everyone. If you get 90-95% of what you offered in the build up to the event that is a much in other peoples opinions as you can expect to achieve. a solution to prevent a stop running out of water would be to have the different stops in communication so once the quantity drops at one have others mobile to re-stock.

terrydel

And another point, this money doesn't go to charity in any way, shape or form (to the best of my knowledge, happy to be corrected if wrong). Personally, and Im sure many others think likewise, I will put up with nearly anything if I know the money is going to a good cause and helping those less fortunate.
If not, then I think it is not unreasonable to expect the event to at least match its own high standards (of last year) which it certainly did not for me.

cajonlardo

Inquitus wrote: »

I was Marshalling, with my young fella, from 13:00 to 16:30 in Rathdrum and there was food and water a plenty even for the last few people through. I have ridden the WW200 before and became an IVCA member this year, I thought from what I saw it was well Marshalled, and reasonably well provisioned for. The fact that the hottest, most humid, part of the day corresponded to the time people were climbing Slievemann, it doesn't surprise me that water may have ended up in short supply up there towards to back end of the day. I am sorry if anyone was disappointed, but I do think the event was better run this year than when I last rode it back in 2011, things have definitely improved.

Hiya,
I have mentioned the marshals and thanked them, in case you missed that and I mean that sincerely. I do know what it is like to spend long hours on a corner and I thanked as many of you as I passed as I could. Marshalling was one of the highlights, the course itself was a highlight and as I said I enjoyed the day. Bit of a pity that some people cannot address criticism of any nature and would prefer to lash out at anyone who suggests improvement.

Lumen

cajonlardo wrote: »

Bit of a pity that some people cannot address criticism of any nature and would prefer to lash out at anyone who suggests improvement.

I assume by "some people" you mean me. I have no connection with the IVCA so I'm in no position to address criticism directed at them.

You're right that my expected standards are lower than yours. I don't do many sportives but when I do I generally bring my own food as I don't want to rely on other people's criteria of what makes a ripe banana or a good sandwich or whatever. If anything is edible it's a bonus.

I would never plan to rely on a roadside water stop but that's just me.

(actually I may have moaned in the past about the burger van at the end of the Orwell Randonnee, so you can add hypocrisy to your list of criticisms).

There are one or two streams flowing onto the road on the Glenmalure side of SM. If you were really desperate..

I've resorted to this once in the past on a poorly prepared cycle.:o