Smoking ban law in car with a child, and smoking in home with a child in the room

Andy From Sligo

Sorry in advance if this has been covered on Boards already.

If you smoke in a car that has a child in it, you will be fined €100 - that came into force 1st Jan 2016. to protect children from secondary smoke.

So anything in place for protecting children in the home that are sitting down to watch TV with the family in a small living room, with the door and windows shut? - i dont think there is.

I wonder how the enforcing of the smoking ban in cars are going? - I havent heard much on it, or of anyone getting caught yet.

endacl

Gonna need you to suggest a way to police that before I respond, Andy.

Filmer Paradise

Well Andy. I was born at the tail end of the 1960s.

I'd say the Doctor who delivered me had a fag in his mouth at the time.

As did the nurses present & in all probability my mother. (She didn't smoke normally, just the odd one on special occasions).

My Dad had a pipe in his mouth outside also.

Later on in the 1980s, I took up smoking myself & happily kept it up for 25 years.

I packed it up over 3 years ago through vaping.

However. I will never & I mean NEVER take issue with smoking or anything to do with it.

Why? Because I find that the people that do these days are worst kind of cowardly cranks that exist & I refuse to endorse that.

G'Night all!

Andy From Sligo

I'm not judging anyone, I just wondered why they brought out a law to protect the child in a car but not in a residential house to boot - seems strange targeting one but not the other

Andy From Sligo

endacl wrote:

Gonna need you to suggest a way to police that before I respond, Andy.

Gardai to have house to house investigators

Filmer Paradise

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I'm not judging anyone, I just wondered why they brought out a law to protect the child in a car but not in a residential house to boot - seems strange targeting one but not the other

Why are you thinking about this Andy?

I'm a reformed smoker & don't wonder about the whys & the wherefores about that situation.

What's your angle on this?

B.A._Baracus

You hate smoking don't you Andy.

Andy From Sligo

B.A._Baracus wrote:

You hate smoking don't you Andy.

Hate is a very strong word :-)

Andy From Sligo

Filmer Paradise wrote:

Why are you thinking about this Andy?

Was browsing through Irish mail online this evening and read about it, no underhanded hidden agenda :-)

Andy From Sligo

Filmer Paradise wrote:

What's your angle on this?

As I already said, strange doing one without other. Ok they are protecting children from smoke in a confined space of a car but they not doing anything about protecting a child in a confined space of a room in the house, maybe they just hoping that if people are banned from smoking with a child in the car that it will have a knock on effect with people smoking in the home?

Filmer Paradise

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

As I already said, strange doing one without other. Ok they are protecting children from smoke in a confined space of a car but they not doing anything about protecting a child in a confined space of a room in the house, maybe they just hoping that if people are banned from smoking with a child in the car that it will have a knock on effect with people smoking in the home?

Oh Lord. Please somebody think of the children!!!!

Your Face

Hard to police and enforce. I'd like to see children's diets policed but you'll run into the same difficulties.

Del2005

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

As I already said, strange doing one without other. Ok they are protecting children from smoke in a confined space of a car but they not doing anything about protecting a child in a confined space of a room in the house, maybe they just hoping that if people are banned from smoking with a child in the car that it will have a knock on effect with people smoking in the home?

It's like the vast majority of laws passed in this country, it's an impossible law to enforce so it's ignored, but a politician gets a sound bite and everyone forgets about it 10 minutes later.

I remember years ago when they made a big deal about passing laws making it illegal to be drunk in public, which where to replace laws that made it illegal to be drunk in public, and they had the top Garda in Dublin on the radio being interviewed. It was in Temple bar on a Friday evening and the interviewer asked him where they going to arrest everyone, he said no.

Stigura

Sure, open the windows, they'll be grand. Smoke from your fag will be whipped away by the exhaust fumes of the motors belching them out around ye.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Research the studies on passive smoking deeper.

Scientific studies don't support it. How many people have died from a condition contracted through passive smoking.

Try walking through Manhattan at rush hour and breathe in that air.

They also brought in speeding laws for cars, but I can drive my sitting room down the road at 150kmph if I want.

grind gremlin

I'm a teacher and when I taught junior infants I could often get the smell of cigarettes off the children's clothes, hair and even off their homework. It's so unfair on them.

Winterlong

Its an outrage...whatever it is.

Mister Vain

grind gremlin wrote: »

I'm a teacher and when I taught junior infants I could often get the smell of cigarettes off the children's clothes, hair and even off their homework. It's so unfair on them.

A lot of people underestimate the smell and how long it lasts.

kneemos

I just want to call you Andy.

Oh Andy
Andy
Andy

grind gremlin

grind gremlin wrote: »

I'm a teacher and when I taught junior infants I could often get the smell of cigarettes off the children's clothes, hair and even off their homework. It's so unfair on them.

Perspective.

The mother who tore her uterus during the 2 days of labour with that child, who worked 2 jobs to make ends meet, who gave up her social life, holidays for that child, who lost sleep, aged, went without for that child, who is in every way the most devoted parent has a cigarette, her one solace, and you think "that's just SO unfair"?

Maybe a little less judgement?

El_Duderino 09

Andy From Sligo wrote:

I'm not judging anyone, I just wondered why they brought out a law to protect the child in a car but not in a residential house to boot - seems strange targeting one but not the other

The car is out and about in public and it's a very confined space.
There are 2 points,
1 is that it would be somewhat applicable in the car and would be completely unenforceable in the private house. Implementing laws that are unenforceable is stupid because it makes a mockery of the law and weakens law enforcement generally.

2 is that the home us more private than a car. Nobody wants the government to do make rules for anything that isn't absolutely necessary. Freedom includes the right to blow smoke in a child's face in the home, or at least smoke in a house with them.

It's not a big problem that they have prohibition on smoking in a car but not in the home.

Big Bag of Chips

Deleted User wrote: »

Perspective.

The mother who tore her uterus during the 2 days of labour with that child, who worked 2 jobs to make ends meet, who gave up her social life, holidays for that child, who lost sleep, aged, went without for that child, who is in every way the most devoted parent has a cigarette, her one solace, and you think "that's just SO unfair"?

Maybe a little less judgement?

yeah - because every 5 year old who goes into school smelling of fags is coming from that perspective!

My friend and her husband smoke, no torn uterus, no 2 day labour, no job - stay at home mother, reasonable social life, regular trips to UK to see family, probably lost a bit of sleep but that's to be expected, aged - obviously (we all do!) good, devoted parent, I'll give you that.. but the fact is they both smoke around their children, and one day I collected the 5 year old from school - 5 hours after she would have been at home, and she stank of fags!

Pawwed Rig

grind gremlin wrote: »

I'm a teacher and when I taught junior infants I could often get the smell of cigarettes off the children's clothes, hair and even off their homework. It's so unfair on them.

When I was in junior infants my teacher would smoke in the classroom.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Deleted User wrote: »

Perspective.

The mother who tore her uterus during the 2 days of labour with that child, who worked 2 jobs to make ends meet, who gave up her social life, holidays for that child, who lost sleep, aged, went without for that child, who is in every way the most devoted parent has a cigarette, her one solace, and you think "that's just SO unfair"?

Maybe a little less judgement?

She could go outside and smoke? The child didn't ask to be born. You either do something right or you don't do it at all.

Big Bag of Chips

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

yeah - because every 5 year old who goes into school smelling of fags is coming from that perspective!

My friend and her husband smoke, no torn uterus, no 2 day labour, no job - stay at home mother, reasonable social life, regular trips to UK to see family, probably lost a bit of sleep but that's to be expected, aged - obviously (we all do!) good, devoted parent, I'll give you that.. but the fact is they both smoke around their children, and one day I collected the 5 year old from school - 5 hours after she would have been at home, and she stank of fags!

I know parents who never smoked around their children.

Alcoholic, beat them, but never smoked.

So the teachers couldn't judge and tut tut because, well the kids never smelled of smoke.

The simple fact is that smoking does not make a parent bad.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

She could go outside and smoke? The child didn't ask to be born. You either do something right or you don't do it at all.

You think parenting is that black and white, there is a right way and a wrong way?

Keane2baMused

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know parents who never smoked around their children.

Alcoholic, beat them, but never smoked.

So the teachers couldn't judge and tut tut because, well the kids never smelled of smoke.

The simple fact is that smoking does not make a parent bad.



You think parenting is that black and white, there is a right way and a wrong way?

Yes there is, you go outside and therefore you don't force your children to breathe in cancer causing smoke.

I'll happily take the moral high ground on that one.

Big Bag of Chips

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The simple fact is that smoking does not make a parent bad.

I don't believe the teacher said anything about bad parents, they just said it was so unfair on the children.

Gbear

I'm a libertarian but I don't understand the "liberal" perspective on allowing people to smoke in front of others.

I can't slap you in the face.
I don't see why other forms of assault, such as blowing poisonous chemicals at you, should be deemed acceptable.

You should be able to consume whatever you like. I'm not sure why you should be able to force others to consume it at the same time.
Arguably, smoke would be diffuse enough outdoors that it ought to be permitted, but there's no escaping it in confined spaces.

Keane2baMused

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Yes there is, you go outside and therefore you don't force your children to breathe in cancer causing smoke.

I'll happily take the moral high ground on that one.

Oh obviously I agree that one should go outside.

But on the other hand, I wouldn't judge a parent on that one issue. There are far more important things. My dad lived under a cloud of smoke...but he was the most wonderful father. I would hate to think a teacher might have smelled the smoke and judged him to be unfair to me.

daRobot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The simple fact is that smoking does not make a parent bad.

Smoking itself obviously does not make a bad parent, but smoking in front of the child in an enclosed enviroment most certainly does.

Are you saying otherwise?

Gbear

Gbear wrote: »

I'm a libertarian but I don't understand the "liberal" perspective on allowing people to smoke in front of others.

I can't slap you in the face.
I don't see why other forms of assault, such as blowing poisonous chemicals at you, should be deemed acceptable.

You should be able to consume whatever you like. I'm not sure why you should be able to force others to consume it at the same time.
Arguably, smoke would be diffuse enough outdoors that it ought to be permitted, but there's no escaping it in confined spaces.

So you feel assaulted by smokers, cars, factories etc.?

You need not, you know. Cos it's not assault.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Yes, absolutely. Would you let your 5 year old smoke? Why would you blow your second hand smoke into her face if you wouldn't? Would it kill someone to go outside and smoke? They can't smoke inside in pubs or restaurants in order to show a bit of respect to other patrons and staff, and it hasn't Inconvienced too many people. Besides the fact smoking inside is beyond disgusting, it's the child's home too and the parents are being selfish, putting their own satisfaction above their child's wellbeing

daRobot

daRobot wrote: »

Smoking itself obviously does not make a bad parent, but smoking in front of the child in an enclosed enviroment most certainly does.

Are you saying otherwise?

Well, you say my father was "most certainly" a bad parent so.

I think you are wrong, we'll agree to disagree.

Gbear

Deleted User wrote: »

So you feel assaulted by smokers, cars, factories etc.?

You need not, you know. Cos it's not assault.

Then how would you class blowing poisonous chemicals in someone's face?

We're clearly pretty far behind where we need to be on dealing with emissions that are poisoning us and our atmosphere but the principle is essentially the same.

You're not allowed to poison people's air supply.
That they don't immediately die when you do it isn't carte blanche to do as you like.

A slap in the face or spitting in your eye aren't life-threatening either, but I would imagine that both could be considered assault.
Banning recklessly expelling poisonous smoke at people, particularly in a non-ventilated, enclosed area, seems entirely consistent with other laws intended to physically protect people.

BunkMoreland

Smokers are vile, weak beings. Too stupid to understand why is not a good idea to smoke in a car with a child.

Samaris

I think it's a bit unfair to be bringing in multi-generational perspectives on this. My father smoked too, and in the home. He smoked most of his life (quit them about ten years before he died), and when he started, smoking was entirely acceptable, even encouraged. (He was born in the late '30s). Across his life, attitudes to smoking generally changed, but it wasn't considered particularly awful to smoke in front of the kids even when I was growing up - I'm in my late 20s now. Basically, there's no point judging our parents by standards today in terms of smoking in front of young children. The whole societal attitude to the habit is different.

Smoking is on the way out anyway. I think my generation, maybe the one just after mine (kids who are teenagers at the moment) is probably the last generations that will be exposed directly and regularly to smoking being a normal habit. I don't think there is any real harm in discouraging smoking in the car with young kids in the back, it's a bad and unhealthy habit and it's no harm to discourage normalisation of it to sprogs. It's also worth considering the effect it might have on children in school in terms of children smelling of cigarette smoke. On the other hand, it's also not worth making it a mysterious forbidden thing that younger teenagers know is happening and think is an adult thing to be doing.

Sure, ideally all parents would quit smoking when they get pregnant. It's not a good thing to be doing while there's a pregnant woman in close proximity to you (or if you're pregnant yourself). Most of us know it's a hard habit to break though.

BunkMoreland wrote: »

Smokers are vile, weak beings. Too stupid to understand why is not a good idea to smoke in a car with a child.

Aren't you a charmer? No bad habits yourself at all then? Body is a temple, no drink, no caffeine, watch the carbs like they might bite at any moment?

You can disagree with the habit all you like, but making a sweeping judgement on a person based entirely on one habit is indeed the sign of a weak character (or at the very least, a very poor method of judging character). Also, humans being what they are, many can probably cope with the concept of being a smoker (or someone who drinks alcohol or lots of caffeine) and still agree that it's best not to push any of them onto children.

daRobot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, you say my father was "most certainly" a bad parent so.

I think you are wrong, we'll agree to disagree.

From your username, I can only guess that you're around 42, in which case your father smoked around you in a different era, where it was far more socially acceptable.

Kids were often in smokey pubs, so it all seemed more normal. So I would't be too quick to judge him - society as a whole then was more ignorant.

But doing it today? Different story in my opinion and I'm amazed that you could deem it anything other than being a sign of a selfish, inconsiderate and thoughtless (aka, bad) parent.

Gbear

Gbear wrote: »

Then how would you class blowing poisonous chemicals in someone's face?

We're clearly pretty far behind where we need to be on dealing with emissions that are poisoning us and our atmosphere but the principle is essentially the same.

You're not allowed to poison people's air supply.
That they don't immediately die when you do it isn't carte blanche to do as you like.

A slap in the face or spitting in your eye aren't life-threatening either, but I would imagine that both could be considered assault.
Banning recklessly expelling poisonous smoke at people, particularly in a non-ventilated, enclosed area, seems entirely consistent with other laws intended to physically protect people.

It's not assault. Assault involves contact or the threat of contact.

KERSPLAT!

There's no way to police smoking in the home and I've no opinion on laws being brought in regarding it but the decent thing for any parent to do is not to smoke inside the home.

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

You think parenting is that black and white, there is a right way and a wrong way?

Solely on the issue of smoking inside the home when there are children about (which is what the thread is about), do you think it's a black and white issue?

osarusan

osarusan wrote: »

Solely on the issue of smoking inside the home when there are children about (which is what the thread is about), do you think it's a black and white issue?

No. No more than, say, drinking alcohol in front of them and normalising it, or giving them junk food. I wouldn't approve of it, but I certainly would not say they are bad parents because of that, it's a very narrow focus.

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

No. No more than, say, drinking alcohol in front of them and normalising it, or giving them junk food. I wouldn't approve of it, but I certainly would not say they are bad parents because of that, it's a very narrow focus.

I didn't say anything about them being bad parents generally.

I would say it is an act of bad parenting though. I'd say that's black and white myself.

Satriale

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

When I was in junior infants my teacher would smoke in the classroom.

Aaah the fond memories. 5th/6th class, your man taking his feet off the desk and laying his pipe down, saying get me down the Blackthorn stick Master Satriale and make sure your knuckles are over the desk this time.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

Perspective.

The mother who tore her uterus during the 2 days of labour with that child, who worked 2 jobs to make ends meet, who gave up her social life, holidays for that child, who lost sleep, aged, went without for that child, who is in every way the most devoted parent has a cigarette, her one solace, and you think "that's just SO unfair"?

Maybe a little less judgement?

"I struggled to bring you in to this world and keep you here, so I have the right to take you out of it early if I want"
Would it be too much judgement to expect parents to feed their kids enough to keep them alive rather than sit there in front of them eating it all themselves every day?

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

"I struggled to bring you in to this world and keep you here, so I have the right to take you out of it early if I want"

Never go near MacDonalds. It's just wall to wall parents trying to snuff out their kids lives...

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh obviously I agree that one should go outside.

But on the other hand, I wouldn't judge a parent on that one issue. There are far more important things. My dad lived under a cloud of smoke...but he was the most wonderful father. I would hate to think a teacher might have smelled the smoke and judged him to be unfair to me.

We've moved on a huge amount even from the 80's .Theres no excuse for such ignorance at this stage.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

Never go near MacDonalds. It's just wall to wall parents trying to snuff out their kids lives...

So **** it, give you're kids cancer, sure they do other bad things. :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So **** it, give you're kids cancer, sure they do other bad things. :rolleyes:

I think both parenting and indeed the act of smoking are a little more complex than a determination to kill kids or let them live.

Parents can and do bad things with kids, feed them junk, drive badly, drink alcohol around them. It's all part of life's rich tapestry!

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

I think both parenting and indeed the act of smoking are a little more complex than a determination to kill kids or let them live.

Parents can and do bad things with kids, feed them junk, drive badly, drink alcohol around them. It's all part of life's rich tapestry!

I dont. I consider anyone that smokes in a confined space with someone who doesnt want them too, to be hugely selfish and some far stronger words I'll allow you to insert yourself. I'd include all the ***** that are so lazy they stand right at the door of pubs/restaurants/****ing hospitals :rolleyes: etc creating a constant cloud of smoke people have to walk through to get in.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

Parents can and do bad things with kids, feed them junk, drive badly, drink alcohol around them. It's all part of life's rich tapestry!

I'm sure that any kids (or adults for that matter) that end up being killed are delighted they got all the experiences in life and not just the ones that didnt kill them.