Cycle Lanes in Phoenix Park

cgcsb

Hurrache wrote: »

The buses go from where though?

A small depot could be built within the park for them to charge and store overnight.

Hurrache

cgcsb wrote: »

A small depot could be built within the park for them to charge and store overnight.

So you'd still have the issue of getting to them and parking.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I've used the park a lot through the years - for cycling, running, visitor centre farmleigh, rolling down the hill at the popes cross....etc etc.....

I've never really thought to myself - this place would be way better if there werent so many parked cars.

In fact, thats only really ever been an issue when I've been looking to park a car myself.

Agree. There's only really problems around the Parkgate street end, particularly around the Zoo when the weather is good, or at the visitor centre. Outside of that I never really found it to be a problem.

buffalo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I've never really thought to myself - this place would be way better if there werent so many parked cars.

In fact, thats only really ever been an issue when I've been looking to park a car myself.

You've never been to the Park during Bloom so.

Hurrache

Bloom though is an exceptional circumstance, and certainly shouldn't feed into why the park should be changed as a result.

cgcsb

Hurrache wrote: »

So you'd still have the issue of getting to them and parking.

Not really, Extend the Chesterfield avenue route to Heuston Station and Castleknock Station. Very easy interchange with PT in the rest of the city. You wouldn't need parking at all.

Hurrache

cgcsb wrote: »

Not really, Extend the Chesterfield avenue route to Heuston Station and Castleknock Station. Very easy interchange with PT in the rest of the city. You wouldn't need parking at all.

And how do I get there and park with a car load of kids, their bikes and bags, and dogs? It's just adding unreasonable hurdles to using it. For all that hassle I'd just drive to Marlay Park, Malahide Castle or Ardgillan Castle, adding a bit more to my carbon footprint.

Any business will then be taking from what is pretty much my local area and spent elsewhere.

buffalo

Hurrache wrote: »

Bloom though is an exceptional circumstance, and certainly shouldn't feed into why the park should be changed as a result.

Bloom is a recurring event and therefore not an exception, and is an interesting aspect as to how the OPW views the Park and how it should be used.

Spanish Eyes

I've often wondered why car traffic was never diverted from Chesterfield Ave to North Road perimeter route instead. I'm sure there is a reason. A new entrance to the Zoo car parks could be made from North Road if the will was there.

Then ban cars and parking on Ch/Ave altogether and just allow pedestrians, cyclists, and the hop on hop off buses. Sounds too simple I suppose but would be great!

Anything can be done if the vision (and the money) is there really. It is a fantastic amenity Ch/Ave is just choking with cars who are commuting or parked.

Hurrache

buffalo wrote: »

Bloom is a recurring event and therefore not an exception, and is an interesting aspect as to how the OPW views the Park and how it should be used.

Yes, but in the daily and weekly use of the park it's an exceptional event in terms of the numbers and traffic it brings.

cgcsb

Hurrache wrote: »

And how do I get there and park with a car load of kids, their bikes and bags, and dogs? It's just adding unreasonable hurdles to using it. For all that hassle I'd just drive to Marlay Park, Malahide Castle or Ardgillan Castle, adding a bit more to my carbon footprint.

Any business will then be taking from what is pretty much my local area and spent elsewhere.

Take public transport. Chose to drive elsewhere if you like, it is a very special park and shouldn't be stuffed with cars.

Hurrache

cgcsb wrote: »

Take public transport. Chose to drive elsewhere if you like, it is a very special park and shouldn't be stuffed with cars.

Not sure how familiar you are with public transport in Ireland, but it can't be done by public transport.

And even if I was to do on my own, I couldn't get there by public transport without going into the city centre and back out again, despite it being 10 minutes or so away by car.

And be realistic, it's not stuffed with cars.

Chips Lovell

For me, parked cars aren't really the problem. It's the traffic. And it's not so much the traffic, but people driving like c**ks, without appreciating that it's first and foremost a leisure amenity, not another N-Road.

LollipopJimmy

I cycled through the park on Saturday, I came alongside another cyclist in the cycle lane and asked him to race me to the next lampost, he just beat me but I reckon him having stabilisers helped him get the power down.

Anyway, the cycle lanes along Chesterfield Avenue are no place to go chasing KOMs, it's just too busy with too many people around. I use these lanes quite a bit and tbh I just slow down and take in the scenery

Hurrache

Chips Lovell wrote: »

For me, parked cars aren't really the problem. It's the traffic. And it's not so much the traffic, but people driving like c**ks, without appreciating that it's first and foremost a leisure amenity, not another N-Road.

Exactly, it's the through traffic and speeding that's the problem. People in a rush to get to and from work, or in a rush to bag the parking at the Parkgate Street end. Go away from Chesterfield Avenue, or even the middle section of the avenue, there's no issue.

cgcsb

Hurrache wrote: »

Not sure how familiar you are with public transport in Ireland, but it can't be done by public transport.

As I posted 2 bus routes, one circling the inside of the park and the other going from Heuston to Castleknock would effectively cover the Park.

beauf

buffalo wrote: »

You've never been to the Park during Bloom so.

Bloom is nothing to do with this discussion. They create temp car parks, close off roads to traffic and you can't cycle due to the large volumes of pedestrians.

beauf

cgcsb wrote: »

As I posted 2 bus routes, one circling the inside of the park and the other going from Heuston to Castleknock would effectively cover the Park.

All of D15 isn't going to walk to Castleknock to get a bus. Its too big an area.

beauf

Tombo2001 wrote: »

...I've never really thought to myself - this place would be way better if there werent so many parked cars....

Same here.

Hurrache

cgcsb wrote: »

As I posted 2 bus routes, one circling the inside of the park and the other going from Heuston to Castleknock would effectively cover the Park.

The question I asked is how do you get to those routes you propose.

lawred2

papu wrote: »

Bought a new bike, went for a spin up and down chesterfield avenue today on the "Bike Lane". Pedestrians every 100m, whole families, buggies, kids. Asking them to move to the pedestrian lane I was told to "Get over myself" "f** off" etc. etc. one lady even told me to use the "bike lane!:rolleyes:".

I would have thought the signs on the bike path are fairly self explanatory, do they need to put up more explicit signage? How do other people get on? Is this what it's like every weekend??:(

design problem... why is the footpath inside the barrier with no obvious means of access beyond walking across the grass and hurdling the barrier? Footpaths by convention tend to be beside the road.

Hurrache

lawred2 wrote: »

design problem... why is the footpath inside the barrier with no obvious means of access beyond walking across the grass? Footpaths by convention tend to be beside the road.

It's safer for families and animals with it being on the inside. Having it on the outside essentially puts you between two lanes of moving traffic and forms an artificial barrier to the rest of the park.

Cycle lanes by convention tend to be the ones alongside the road, not the footpaths.

beauf

RayCun wrote: »

That isn't cutting off though, it would still be accessible by car.

'for access' implies no through traffic

Chesterfield <-> Parkgate will always be kept open for zoo, Aras, embassy, and car park at the cross.
Chesterfield to North Road, Ordnance Survey as far as Farmleigh, the road to the visitor centre, and North Road to North Circular could be kept open for some through traffic and access to the amenities in the zoo, but would stop the park being used as a main road and car park.

Isn't that bascially and obital route intose the walls like I suggested.

No sense leaving Chesterfield <-> Parkgate open. All those other locations have access to other roads. Even the hospitals. if they hadn't some of the the exits one way, forcing people to spend more time driving around the park than they previously had to.

Leaving Chesterfield <-> Parkgate open seems to facilitate those coming from the city centre and discommoding all the locals who are the main users of the park.

Spanish Eyes

lawred2 wrote: »

design problem... why is the footpath inside the barrier with no obvious means of access beyond walking across the grass and hurdling the barrier? Footpaths by convention tend to be beside the road.

Agree completely. Pedestrians expect their footpaths to be nearest the road.

No wonder there is so much confusion between peds and cyclists. Should just swap them around now. Easy enough to do.

lawred2

Hurrache wrote: »

It's safer for families and animals with it being on the inside. Having it on the outside essentially puts you between two lanes of moving traffic and forms an artificial barrier to the rest of the park.

I'm sure it makes sense from certain perspectives but in practice (which is the truest test) it doesn't really work...

Hardly anyone who isn't familiar with the Park will know to cross the grass and step over a barrier to use a walkway. It's nonsense really. And it's even dafter when one considers those with buggies/wheelchairs etc

Hurrache

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Agree completely. Pedestrians expect their footpaths to be nearest the road.

No wonder there is so much confusion between peds and cyclists. Should just swap them around now. Easy enough to do.

It's been debated over and over, probably on this very thread. Makes no sense in terms of usability and safety to swap them.

beauf

lawred2 wrote: »

design problem... why is the footpath inside the barrier with no obvious means of access beyond walking across the grass and hurdling the barrier? Footpaths by convention tend to be beside the road.

Only if your parking on the road. Remove parking, replace with cycle lane. Let the pedestrians keep the paths.

RayCun

Sorry, I meant Chesterfield <> Phoenix Park monument

access to the zoo, Aras, visitor centre, but not to Castleknock

orbital route around North road for through traffic

lawred2

beauf wrote: »

Only if your parking on the road. Remove parking, replace with cycle lane. Let the pedestrians keep the paths.

well that's certainly a very valid idea... Would probably need to significantly extend the existing parking in the park though? Would you agree?

cgcsb

beauf wrote: »

All of D15 isn't going to walk to Castlknock to get a bus. Its too big an area.

You make it sound like there is no public transport at all outside the park.

beauf

lawred2 wrote: »

I'm sure it makes sense from certain perspectives but in practice (which is the truest test) it doesn't really work...

Hardly anyone who isn't familiar with the Park will know to cross the grass and step over a barrier to use a walkway. It's nonsense really. And it's even dafter when one considers those with buggies/wheelchairs etc

Works at peak when cycling to work.

Doesn't work off peak when people are out walking and jogging. Then weight of numbers over rides any rules.