Season 6 Episode 6 "Blood Of My Blood" - "Book readers"

Riskymove

amos13 wrote: »

I missed that, where was it mentioned?

It was in the note Jaime sent back to Doran, he reads it just before the sand snakes kill him

Michael D Not Higgins

Nerdlingr wrote: »

So did we get a confirmation/clue that Bran does have an effect on the Mad King? "Burn them all" ??

I think you might be on to something.

allibastor

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I think you might be on to something.

I dont think so, it has been said many times in the series and books that the king was mad, he thought he was going to be a dragon and turn into one, and that he feared the people rising up against him so he decided to burn them, and in the fire he would rise a dragon.

I dont see how bran and his jedi mind trick would make him mad, he was known as the mad king all his life!!!!

Michael D Not Higgins

allibastor wrote: »

I dont think so, it has been said many times in the series and books that the king was mad, he thought he was going to be a dragon and turn into one, and that he feared the people rising up against him so he decided to burn them, and in the fire he would rise a dragon.

I dont see how bran and his jedi mind trick would make him mad, he was known as the mad king all his life!!!!

Hmm, maybe. They did say he wasn't the first mad one and that the gods flip a coin for each Targaryen.

OhHiMark

allibastor wrote: »

I dont think so, it has been said many times in the series and books that the king was mad, he thought he was going to be a dragon and turn into one, and that he feared the people rising up against him so he decided to burn them, and in the fire he would rise a dragon.

I dont see how bran and his jedi mind trick would make him mad, he was known as the mad king all his life!!!!

No he wasn't. It was only later in life that he went mad.

J. Marston

allibastor wrote: »

I dont think so, it has been said many times in the series and books that the king was mad, he thought he was going to be a dragon and turn into one, and that he feared the people rising up against him so he decided to burn them, and in the fire he would rise a dragon.

I dont see how bran and his jedi mind trick would make him mad, he was known as the mad king all his life!!!!

He actually wasn't a bad guy in his early reign but his wife's problems with childbirth and more importantly, Duskendale, seemed to push him over the edge.

allibastor

OhHiMark wrote: »

No he wasn't. It was only later in life that he went mad.

Oh right, just googled and true that

Maybe there is something to it, but it says he enjoyed watching people burn, so not sure how the warging thing would work that into it?

LionelNashe

intheclouds wrote: »

No no no, once Margaery is back in bed with Tommen it will be HER who controls him.

She didnt have to do the walk of shame, her families army would have prevented that.

But she would have done it if it meant getting back with Tommen.

She definitely knows what she is doing.

allibastor wrote: »

I think she has fooled the HS into thinking he is getting the king in his pocket, when it is her who is getting the HS and his crew in her pockets.
It gives her total control, once the king does as she asks, and she can then get the HS to do this.
Dont be surprised to see a "god tells me" side of her yet!

The walk of shame was not the biggest thing that was being held over Margaery. Marge's walk of shame was being used to coerce Tommen, if anyone.

As long as the high sparrow has Loras, he has Margaery. There hasn't even been a hint that she is fooling the high sparrow. She's manipulating Tommen, but not through choice. She has steered him into the Faith because she had no other way to protect Loras.

Apart from the control of Tommen that the HS exerts through Margaery, he also has some direct influence on Tommen from the frequent conversations that they have, and because Cersei's trial is coming up. Even if Marge eventually gets free of the high sparrow, Tommen might be too much under his influence for that to matter.

I have a guess as to what might happen with Loras but I'll spoiler tag it:

Petyr Baelish said to Olenna a few weeks ago "I have the same thing for you as I gave to Cersei; a handsome young man". I think that the Faith's witness against Loras, i.e. the blond gay guy who worked for Littlefinger, will be forced to reverse his testimony when he is called to Loras's trial

Savage Tyrant

5starpool wrote: »

What I think will happen is this:

- Tommen all holy, etc.
- Trial for Cersie happens.
- Trial by combat, Hound turns up, OMG!
- Hound kills mountain after looking like mountain had him finished. Who could see that coming?
- Tommen snivels and talks about saving his mother, Margaery talks him into going along with the faith and gods, etc as it is the will of the gods, and he is too cowardly to do anything about it. Kevan doesn't give a crap.
- Jaime is the only one who would do something about it but he is away in the riverlands.
- Cersei beheaded, and the Tyrells essentially win.
- Jaime either starts another war in revenge with the Lannister army, or else makes an alliance with Blackfish, etc to kill the Tyrells and the Freys.

Oooooh.... Just Ooooh!

OhHiMark

allibastor wrote: »

Oh right, just googled and true that

Maybe there is something to it, but it says he enjoyed watching people burn, so not sure how the warging thing would work that into it?

The warging thing could just implant the idea "let them burn". And then with that constantly going through his mind it takes it over and becomes an obsession, so he has to watch people burn.

Michael D Not Higgins

OhHiMark wrote: »

The warging thing could just implant the idea "let them burn". And then with that constantly going through his mind it takes it over and becomes an obsession, so he has to watch people burn.

And no one's any the wiser since they have a propensity for madness in the first place.

intheclouds

LionelNashe wrote: »

There hasn't even been a hint that she is fooling the high sparrow.

It didnt need to be a hint, it was quite obvious from her conversation and behaviour with Loras that she is not breaking for the High Sparrow.

She is definitely trolling the High Sparrow to get Loras back, but also to get herself out.

Tommen is nothing, a pawn to be controlled.

Savage Tyrant

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Any King, and then other Kings could just dispute it.

Like both and Stannis and Robb (did in his will) could both have named Jon a Stark. But other kings during the War of the Five Kings could have disputed this and claimed they were false kings and didn't have the power to do this.

If Jon has been named a Stark and then with Stannis and Robb both dead, does that make him a Snow again if nobody recognises him as a Stark?

The head of a House can legitimise a bastard... As Roose Bolton did for Ramsey.
So Robb's legitimising of his "brother" would be recognised by all houses as he was at the very least undisputed in his role as the Lord of the Stark family.
The King thing I'm sure could be disputed.
It would need to be a King to release someone from his vows to the Nights Watch though. (Stannis offered to do so... Robb naming Jon as heir to Winterfell would surely have meant the same thing)
I'm supposing the legitimacy of the King giving the order would depend on weather or not the Nights Watch themselves recognised him or not. And they are supposed to stay out of the politics of the Seven Kingdoms and remain neutral.
It's all a bit confusing.

JPNelsforearm

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Oooooh.... Just Ooooh!

Cersei will outlive all her children according to some witch, she wont lose her head before Tommen.

intheclouds

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Cersei will outlive all her children according to some witch, she wont lose her head before Tommen.

Given Cersei and Jaime's recent conversation where she said that only the two of them matter, I wonder will it be her to puts the knife in Tommens back?

Riskymove

OhHiMark wrote: »

The warging thing could just implant the idea "let them burn". And then with that constantly going through his mind it takes it over and becomes an obsession, so he has to watch people burn.

Was thinking something similar

we have already seen how the story around the rebellion and what happened isn't necessarily true (Arthur Dayne etc.) and more is to come

Liam O

allibastor wrote: »

I dont think so, it has been said many times in the series and books that the king was mad, he thought he was going to be a dragon and turn into one, and that he feared the people rising up against him so he decided to burn them, and in the fire he would rise a dragon.

I dont see how bran and his jedi mind trick would make him mad, he was known as the mad king all his life!!!!

He heard voices in his head, when he burned Rickard and Brandon he said that the whispers in his head were "burn them all". With what we've seen with Hodor that could easily have been manipulated by Bran or even Bloodraven before him.

JPNelsforearm

intheclouds wrote: »

Given Cersei and Jaime's recent conversation where she said that only the two of them matter, I wonder will it be her to puts the knife in Tommens back?

No, cant see that, maybe if Jamie dies on the battle field and Tommen become a total pawn of HS/Margery and Cersei plots to take over the crown and he gets killed in the ensuing melee, I just cant see it being in her nature to intentionally murder her sole surviving child

amos13

Savage Tyrant wrote:

The head of a House can legitimise a bastard... As Roose Bolton did for Ramsey. So Robb's legitimising of his "brother" would be recognised by all houses as he was at the very least undisputed in his role as the Lord of the Stark family. The King thing I'm sure could be disputed. It would need to be a King to release someone from his vows to the Nights Watch though. (Stannis offered to do so... Robb naming Jon as heir to Winterfell would surely have meant the same thing) I'm supposing the legitimacy of the King giving the order would depend on weather or not the Nights Watch themselves recognised him or not. And they are supposed to stay out of the politics of the Seven Kingdoms and remain neutral. It's all a bit confusing.

The head of a house can't legitimise. Ramsay was legitimised by the king as a thank you to the Bolton's.

aligator_am

Billy86 wrote: »

Hound or not, I reckon we've seen little enough of Mutant Mountain after all the alchemy build up, that whoever we see him fight in the trial by combat (if it happens before the end of the season) is going to be made into actual soup within 10 seconds.

I'm sure there was a scene in one of the season trailers that you see him dragging one of the faith militant along the ground, not sure if it's from the trial by combat or something else we've not seen yet though?

aligator_am

5starpool wrote: »

What I think will happen is this:

- Tommen all holy, etc.
- Trial for Cersie happens.
- Trial by combat, Hound turns up, OMG!
- Hound kills mountain after looking like mountain had him finished. Who could see that coming?
- Tommen snivels and talks about saving his mother, Margaery talks him into going along with the faith and gods, etc as it is the will of the gods, and he is too cowardly to do anything about it. Kevan doesn't give a crap.
- Jaime is the only one who would do something about it but he is away in the riverlands.
- Cersei beheaded, and the Tyrells essentially win.
- Jaime either starts another war in revenge with the Lannister army, or else makes an alliance with Blackfish, etc to kill the Tyrells and the Freys.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tommen gets offed this season, I think the prophecy that the witch gave Cersei when she was young that she would see all her kids getting buried or something along those lines?

rawn

aligator_am wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if Tommen gets offed this season, I think the prophecy that the witch gave Cersei when she was young that she would see all her kids getting buried or something along those lines?

Who is next in line for the throne if when he dies?

blackwhite

rawn wrote: »

Who is next in line for the throne if when he dies?

Lancel?

aligator_am

rawn wrote: »

Who is next in line for the throne if when he dies?

Honestly I've no clue, I'm thinking probably Margery but I can't remember if her and Tommen have slept together or not, if they haven't then maybe that could be used as grounds by Cersei or whoever to say that the wedding was never sanctified or some other guff.

I could be totally wrong though

Liam O

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

No, cant see that, maybe if Jamie dies on the battle field and Tommen become a total pawn of HS/Margery and Cersei plots to take over the crown and he gets killed in the ensuing melee, I just cant see it being in her nature to intentionally murder her sole surviving child

She was already about to poison him with nightshade in Blackwater before Tywin came into the throneroom.

Billy86

Liam O wrote: »

She was already about to poison him with nightshade in Blackwater before Tywin came into the throneroom.

That wasn't fully the same though, would have been more of a mercy killing as what would have awaited the Lannister kids would have been far worse (at least in Cersei's mind).

rawn

aligator_am wrote: »

Honestly I've no clue, I'm thinking probably Margery but I can't remember if her and Tommen have slept together or not, if they haven't then maybe that could be used as grounds by Cersei or whoever to say that the wedding was never sanctified or some other guff.

I could be totally wrong though

They have slept together. Would the crown ever go to a bastard? Cos I think the throne would follow blood so it would go to the next Baratheon. Barring that, Lancel Loras is Kingsguard so I guess it would be Maergery but only if she's pregnant?

It would definitely make things interesting!

Dial Hard

Is it just me or is the guy playing Randall Tarly going a bit Denethor on it?

EagererBeaver

Why would Lancel come into it anywhere? He's a Lannister and a sparrow to boot.

Duckworth_Luas

rawn wrote: »

Who is next in line for the throne if when he dies?

Going by European rules it would be

Robert
Joffery
Tommen
Myrcella
Stannis
Shireen
Renly
Daenerys :eek::pac:


Robert
Joffery
Tommen
Myrcella
Stannis
Shireen
Renly

WinnyThePoo

I was just thinking of the lengths Margaery will go for power.
She has always found a way to please the following on the path to power.

She didn't care about Renly Baratheons sexuality and happily offered her brother to him. She did want a baby off him though.

She didn't care for Joffrey's horrific behaviour and was happy to let do whatever . As long as she was in power.

She is happy being almost motherly to Tommen.

She always seeked power. Actually being in power with tommen and High Sparrow means she will have more power than before whilst keeping the long arm on Cercei.

I definitely see her throwing the high sparrow in front of a train though.

rawn

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Going by European rules it would be

Robert
Joffery
Tommen
Myrcella
Stannis
Shireen
Renly
Daenerys :eek::pac:


Robert
Joffery
Tommen
Myrcella
Stannis
Shireen
Renly

I always thought that if the bloodline was dead it would revert the spouses bloodline, no?

Duckworth_Luas

rawn wrote: »

I always thought that if the bloodline was dead it would revert the spouses bloodline, no?

No

aligator_am

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

No

Ah OK, so if the existing royal family (Baratheons) die out then the throne reverts back to the previous holders? That's interesting, didn't know that, thanks

jebidiah

Didn't some places recently say it was actually Cersei?


http://mashable.com/2016/05/03/game-thrones-heir/#w8zHAABG.uq7

Duckworth_Luas

aligator_am wrote: »

Ah OK, so if the existing royal family (Baratheons) die out then the throne reverts back to the previous holders? That's interesting, didn't know that, thanks

The current royal family are the Baratheons.

Tommen is the last "Baratheon"

rawn

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

The current royal family are the Baratheons.

Tommen is the last "Baratheon"

Except Gendry, but I don't see that happening. He only knows who he is (in the show) cos Mel told him, who in KL would take her word for it all for a bastard?

I reckon when Tommen dies Cersei will dig her claws into the throne and never let go. She will claim she is the last remaining of the Baratheon blood simply because her kids were half Lannister half Baratheon (to the public anyways), eben though she technically has no Baratheon blood she married into the family. She won't give it up without dragging half the kingdom down with her anyways.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Baratheons are related to the Targaryens as well, so if they're a dead end it's an easy sell to the general population for it to go back to Dany.

Can see a situation in the end game though where Dany realises she's not a conqueror not a ruler and hands things over to one of the bastards, either Robert's or one of the earlier Targ's. Coz also, would her whole not being able to have children thing not kind of mean she's a very short term solution? I guess that whole rises in the west sets in the east thing could come into play though

LionelNashe

If Tommen dies soon, I reckon Margaery will take the throne, given that the people in Kings Landing love her, and more importantly the Tyrell army is the second biggest in Westeros and is close at hand.

rawn

LionelNashe wrote: »

If Tommen dies soon, I reckon Margaery will take the throne, given that the people in Kings Landing love her, and more importantly the Tyrell army is the second biggest in Westeros and is close at hand.

Aaaah. And I'm sure the HS will support her, since she's so devout

Sleepy

Assuming R+L = J is true:

FYP

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Going by European rules it would be

Robert
Joffery
Tommen
Myrcella
Stannis
Shireen
Renly
Jon
Daenerys :eek::pac:

Salvador Slimy Suspense wrote: »

Baratheons are related to the Targaryens as well, so if they're a dead end it's an easy sell to the general population for it to go back to Dany.

Can see a situation in the end game though where Dany realises she's not a conqueror not a ruler and hands things over to one of the bastards, either Robert's or one of the earlier Targ's. Coz also, would her whole not being able to have children thing not kind of mean she's a very short term solution? I guess that whole rises in the west sets in the east thing could come into play though

I've been thinking the same, Danaerys doesn't appear to be a good ruler. Jon doesn't seem much better but, assuming he's a Targaryen, his claim to the throne is better than Danaerys' though perhaps lesser than Aegon's... who, judging by his exclusion from the show, would appear to indeed be fAegon as called by many readers already...

Michael D Not Higgins

Do bastards get a claim on the throne? If they're not legitimised by a king are they not excluded from any succession? Like, say Tommen dies and they do revert to Targaryens to fill the Iron Throne, and they do find a Targaryen bastard, there's no king to legitimise him. Now obviously if Tommen dies there'll be a war to claim the throne, initially Lannister v Tyrell v Faith Militant and probably later everyone else will join in.

Sleepy

Who says Jon is a bastard?

It seems to me that the history of the Targaryens practising (often incestuous) bigamy could only have one purpose for being included in the story: to pave the way for the reveal that Rhaegar married Lyanna, making Jon Snow actually Jon Targaryen, the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

intheclouds

Sleepy wrote: »

Who says Jon is a bastard?

It seems to me that the history of the Targaryens practising (often incestuous) bigamy could only have one purpose for being included in the story: to pave the way for the reveal that Rhaegar married Lyanna, making Jon Snow actually Jon Targaryen, the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

It would be a bit of a kick in the teeth for Neds honour to have hidden a rightful heir to the throne eh?

I feel sure that something we do not expect will be revealed at the Tower of Joy - not just Jons parentage, nor even a Star Wars-esque twist of Meera being a twin sister, but something that we just dont expect at all.

Michael D Not Higgins

I guess we'd need the reveal to also include the fact that they did marry to legitimise his claim. However, the faith are now involved in the crown and polygamy is a sin to them so there'd still need to be a war.

Liam O

intheclouds wrote: »

It would be a bit of a kick in the teeth for Neds honour to have hidden a rightful heir to the throne eh?

I feel sure that something we do not expect will be revealed at the Tower of Joy - not just Jons parentage, nor even a Star Wars-esque twist of Meera being a twin sister, but something that we just dont expect at all.

Yeah Ned should have marched Jon down to Robert after their big (friendship suspending) argument about killing Targaryen children and laid another Targaryen child, also his nephew at the feet of the most Rhaegar hating man in the seven kingdoms. And the kicker, he had the child with the love of your life.

Robert would have embraced this news I'd say...

It's R+L=J. It has to be, if he changed it just because people figured it out then I guess it's fair enough but I think it's pretty clear for a while that it is what it is. While I like the Meera theory, I don't see it happening either tbh.

intheclouds

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah Ned should have marched Jon down to Robert after their big (friendship suspending) argument about killing Targaryen children and laid another Targaryen child, also his nephew at the feet of the most Rhaegar hating man in the seven kingdoms. And the kicker, he had the child with the love of your life.

Robert would have embraced this news I'd say...

It's R+L=J. It has to be, if he changed it just because people figured it out then I guess it's fair enough but I think it's pretty clear for a while that it is what it is. While I like the Meera theory, I don't see it happening either tbh.

He may have hidden it to protect Jon alright but at the point at which Robert died and it turned out he had no trueborn children youd think he might have mentioned it to someone!

Im not disputing that its R+L=J but I feel there is something else we will learn in the Tower of Joy that we dont expect (and not about Meera).

Sleepy

I think that something will be that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married meaning that Jon is the legitimate King rather than just a Targaryen bastard.

I don't buy the Meera theory and *really* hope it's tin-foil hat stuff...

ALSO: "Promise Me Ned" - I'm presuming that the promise was to hide / protect Jon rather than to put him on the throne. Revealing his identity at any point would have endangered him and resulted in Ned's breaking that promise...?

rawn

Have a look for the N + A = J theory on YouTube, i think it might be Alt Shift X. Another highly plausible theory that would be right up GRRM's street to surprise people with.

An interesting point of the R + L = J theory is that in Ned's PoV chapters, when he thinks of bastards he doesn't think of Jon... but he thinks of Jon when he thinks of his children.

Conall Cernach

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Going by European rules it would be

Robert
Joffery
Tommen
Myrcella
Stannis
Shireen
Renly
Daenerys :eek::pac:


Robert
Joffery
Tommen
Myrcella
Stannis
Shireen
Renly

There is bound to be some obscure cousin of Tommen who would qualify. Unless the Baratheons are a new house then some noble in Westeros is bound to be related to them somehow like through Robert's grandfather's younger brother marrying a Tarly or something like that and seeing as the current "legitimate" king is Tommen then it could be some relative of his. Kevan Lannister perhaps. Maybe he is just as scheming as Tywin after all.