Questions about air traffic control as a career

ED E

Just to throw in my 2c from a comp sci perspective:

If you're worried about automation look at possible alternatives you'd consider, most of those well payed vocational careers will be automated much quicker than ATC. As other posters have said its a respected role and transferring in later life shouldn't be too difficult if it happens during your working life.

Shannon Control

reason vs religion wrote: »

Yeah, controllers on old threads say that the max including shift allowance is somewhere around €110, before overtime and other ways of topping up. And I think the salary scale you quote is old, too. Starts at around €30k now, I think, but without having to repay training costs.

It is rising. I was told by somebody in the tower at Dublin that the union have been fighting for it to be raised, and apparently it's been raised almost to 40K very recently.

Presumably, you'll get based in the Shannon HQ if you get past the SCP, where you'll be working all kinds of hours. You could be working a shift staring at 11am, then eventually finishing it with your night shift of maybe 9pm to 7am. So, not pretty from that point of view, but you'll get used to it.

The SCP group stays together in Ballycasey until they start rating courses. At Ballycasey, the group will be split into subgroups after the theory phase. These groups will rotate through modules such as Radar, tower skills etc. Each module takes about 4-5 weeks to complete, then you rotate.

The location of the Rating course is determined by the rating being taken.
Generally you do not get a choice where you go, although in the last SCP I think it was, they put a list together for people to choose Dublin or Shannon, with about 5 places available in Dublin for training. The people at the top of the list (based on interview scores and test scores) get first choice. Dublin would be more appealing to some, no work on Christmas Day, only 1 night shift in their days on, get to live in Dublin (although a few ATCOs in Dublin actually live in Shannon but rent places in Dublin) so you get to pick, but mightn't get your pick, if that makes sense.

There's a small handful doing OTJ in the tower in Dublin right now, who, when finished, will be on 40,000 a year, with shift allowance, living in the capital, and working with fanstastic people, who, on the majority, really enjoy what they do. Some look at it negatively and say that the working hours are crap, pay isn't sufficient for the job, people are always moaning etc. Looking with the glass half-full instead of half-empty will decide if you're happy or not, the job is what you make of it, with a lot of opportunities to do different things. (Become an OTJI after a few years, get on the runway safety team, become an ATCO Expert, work up the ranks to station managers after working for a good few years and many more) So if you look at the positives, it's not a bad job at all, good working conditions, nice people, good pay, good opportunities to do different things, a diverse job and one that, if you don't f*ck up on (!!) will lead you to having it for the majority of your life. Hope that gives you some sort of insight

reason vs religion

Shannon Control wrote: »

It is rising. I was told by somebody in the tower at Dublin that the union have been fighting for it to be raised, and apparently it's been raised almost to 40K very recently.

Presumably, you'll get based in the Shannon HQ if you get past the SCP, where you'll be working all kinds of hours. You could be working a shift staring at 11am, then eventually finishing it with your night shift of maybe 9pm to 7am. So, not pretty from that point of view, but you'll get used to it.

The SCP group stays together in Ballycasey until they start rating courses. At Ballycasey, the group will be split into subgroups after the theory phase. These groups will rotate through modules such as Radar, tower skills etc. Each module takes about 4-5 weeks to complete, then you rotate.

The location of the Rating course is determined by the rating being taken.
Generally you do not get a choice where you go, although in the last SCP I think it was, they put a list together for people to choose Dublin or Shannon, with about 5 places available in Dublin for training. The people at the top of the list (based on interview scores and test scores) get first choice. Dublin would be more appealing to some, no work on Christmas Day, only 1 night shift in their days on, get to live in Dublin (although a few ATCOs in Dublin actually live in Shannon but rent places in Dublin) so you get to pick, but mightn't get your pick, if that makes sense.

There's a small handful doing OTJ in the tower in Dublin right now, who, when finished, will be on 40,000,000 a year, with shift allowance, living in the capital, and working with fanstastic people, who, on the majority, really enjoy what they do. Some look at it negatively and say that the working hours are crap, pay isn't sufficient for the job, people are always moaning etc. Looking with the glass half-full instead of half-empty will decide if you're happy or not, the job is what you make of it, with a lot of opportunities to do different things. (Become an OTJI after a few years, get on the runway safety team, become an ATCO Expert, work up the ranks to station managers after working for a good few years and many more) So if you look at the positives, it's not a bad job at all, good working conditions, nice people, good pay, good opportunities to do different things, a diverse job and one that, if you don't f*ck up on (!!) will lead you to having it for the majority of your life. Hope that gives you some sort of insight

Oh my god, will you atc's not come to a bloody consensus on the merits of your career?! Just when I felt I'd decided... At this stage I'm hoping I don't get it, making the decision for me.

My thinking is that if the majority of controllers are unsatisfied, I don't expect to be the exception. What's more, being an existentialist who's always questioning his place in life, I would expect to be the exception even if everyone were enjoying their job. And the lack of flexibility would seem to aggravate that tendency of mine.

Can I ask you about the alternatives you mentioned? OTJI is an instructor, right? Do many do it? Is it the same shift? I presume runway safety team is a strategic planning group. Would one be involved in that exclusively or alongside fewer hours of control work? What is an ATCO expert? Is it just based on years of experience and what are the benfits?

Can you tell me about the training down in Ballycasey? Is it 9-5? Is there homework other than study? Is it remembered as being a difficult period in an atc's life?!

Thanks

Thargor

Shannon Control wrote: »

There's a small handful doing OTJ in the tower in Dublin right now, who, when finished, will be on 40,000,000 a year, with shift allowance, living in the capital, and working with fanstastic people, who, on the majority, really enjoy what they do. Some look at it negatively and say that the working hours are crap, pay isn't sufficient for the job, people are always moaning etc. Looking with the glass half-full instead of half-empty will decide if you're happy or not, the job is what you make of it, with a lot of opportunities to do different things. (Become an OTJI after a few years, get on the runway safety team, become an ATCO Expert, work up the ranks to station managers after working for a good few years and many more) So if you look at the positives, it's not a bad job at all, good working conditions, nice people, good pay, good opportunities to do different things, a diverse job and one that, if you don't f*ck up on (!!) will lead you to having it for the majority of your life. Hope that gives you some sort of insight

Thats some shift allowance!

Shannon Control

Thargor wrote: »

Thats some shift allowance!

I'll blame it on forgetting my coffee this morning :rolleyes: 40,000 I meant obviously

notharrypotter

reason vs religion wrote: »

Oh my god, will you atc's not come to a bloody consensus on the merits of your career?!
Can you tell me about the training down in Ballycasey? Is it 9-5? Is there homework other than study? Is it remembered as being a difficult period in an atc's life?!

I was told by somebody in the tower at Dublin

From a previous thread its not certain that he actually works in ATC.

Shannon Control

notharrypotter wrote: »

From a previous thread its not certain that he actually works in ATC.

Do I have to know someone who is a controller to be a controller myself? Why are your posts always negative? Not one to judge, just asking.

notharrypotter

Shannon Control wrote: »

Do I have to know someone who is a controller to be a controller myself? Why are your posts always negative? Not one to judge, just asking.

May appear negative, that was not my intent.

The OP is looking for information.
If your source is other than yourself make this clear so they can make an informed decision.

reason vs religion

First they dropped the first-stage apptitude test which was previously part of the recruitment process, and now it seems they've dropped the group interview stage, as I've just got an invite to the "final interview" at IAA headquarters. Why would that be? Numbers down on previous years?

afatbollix

What are the shifts? 12 hours or 8 hours? and how many days on and off? I currently work 5 days on 4 off 12 hour days but only 30 nights a year. Would it be the same or very different?

Cessna_Pilot

Thargor wrote: »

Thats some shift allowance!

Think that's actually the French atc shift allowance. Still not enough :rolleyes::p

reason vs religion

afatbollix wrote: »

What are the shifts? 12 hours or 8 hours? and how many days on and off? I currently work 5 days on 4 off 12 hour days but only 30 nights a year. Would it be the same or very different?

According to a thread from a previous year's recruitment, Shannon has two nights per week while Dublin has one. Shift length varies but averaged about 8 hours. Five days on, three days off.

keredern

reason vs religion wrote: »

According to a thread from a previous year's recruitment, Shannon has two nights per week while Dublin has one. Shift length varies but averaged about 8 hours. Five days on, three days off.

Just curious reason vs religion, did you get offered the role & if so, did you take it?

Very interesting thread.