Running in heat. Does it affect you much?

demfad

livedadream wrote: »

i do of course!

if i dont die ill post on tuesday how i got on :P

now i need to go fill up my water bottle!! gotta go hydrate!

If youve done hot yoga. A session today or tomorrow might help (warning: its 90 min in 40 degrees). And/or just use the on the day strategies for cooling.

Jakey Rolling

From experience I need at least a couple of weeks training in hot weather before I can operate at anywhere near race pace.

I've completely shut down on 2 recent races, most recently on a 14k at the weekend - when I was in direct sun I felt like my brain was cooking. Once the sun disappeared I recovered fairly quickly and finished the last 4k at near enough normal race pace.

I'm now trying to make the most of the current warm spell to acclimatise for upcoming 10k and half, otherwise if it's warm and sunny on the day I might as well stay at home.

livedadream

so a quick update,

went out and did 5km this evening for the global running day celebration and it was grand took me 4 minutes longer than usual but i lived to tell the tale.

gunna keep hydrating and not let the doubts creep in thanks guys! special mention to Chartsengrafs thanks!!

ger664

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That memory is EXACTLY the reason why I said "usually".
We haven't had those temperatures since.

That event was also a very good example of how we adapt to heat. On day 4 or 5, a few local runners joined us and they all went home after 4 miles, saying it was way too hot to run a marathon. The 10in10 runners just got on with it.

Excuse me I finished one of those on Day 7 :mad:

AuldManKing

livedadream wrote: »

any of the experienced runners want to give some advise to a girl doing the longest leg of the cork marathon relay and is seriously concerned about melting?

• In anticipation for a race last Tuesday evening in the heat, I had spent the last 3 days increasing my water intake so i was really well hydrated prior to the event.
• I also wore loose fitting top to allow heat to escape and breeze to circulate.
• I wouldn't wear a cap, but a visor would be ok - most heat escapes through our heads.
• Electrolytes or additional Salt a couple of days before the race will help.
  
• Dont drink too much (thats subjective) on course - in a warm marathon a couple of years ago, I took on too much water/lucozade sport and puked up terribly as my system wasn't used to it and didn't need to amount I took.

livedadream

AuldManKing wrote: »

• In anticipation for a race last Tuesday evening in the heat, I had spent the last 3 days increasing my water intake so i was really well hydrated prior to the event.
• I also wore loose fitting top to allow heat to escape and breeze to circulate.
• I wouldn't wear a cap, but a visor would be ok - most heat escapes through our heads.
• Electrolytes or additional Salt a couple of days before the race will help.
  
• Dont drink too much (thats subjective) on course - in a warm marathon a couple of years ago, I took on too much water/lucozade sport and puked up terribly as my system wasn't used to it and didn't need to amount I took.

Thanks for this, i managed my 5km last night in 22 degrees okay, took me longer than it should have but i finished (was a puddle after but i lived)

anyone hazard a guess on the average times of an normal runner over 5.2 miles and then the same over 5.5 miles in the heat?

ThisRegard

I dunno, I don't think it's actually that warm so as to have much of an affect on you physiologically, it's the late teens, very early 20s, over mid distances. I did a 40 minute session lunch time on Monday and a handy 5k lunchtime Tuesday, both warmer than Wednesday which had a cooling breeze.

I was dripping sweat after the session but it never felt like it was stifling me. Maybe, to use the cliché, it's all in the head?

Maximus Alexander

ThisRegard wrote: »

Maybe, to use the cliché, it's all in the head?

I don't think so. I'm sure, like anything, it affects people differently but personally my heart rate is 15-20 bpm higher for the same pace once the temp gets up to 20+ and there's humidity. It's a measurable difference that is definitely not imagined.

ThisRegard

Maybe, I didn't wear my HRM for comparison purposes, I probably should next time to see if there's a difference on the same route in warmer weather. In fairness I like running in the heat so will often extend a run in it.

Maximus Alexander

It occurs to me though that I'm basing this on a pretty small sample size so maybe it's not as definite as I think!

Story Bud?

ThisRegard wrote: »

I dunno, I don't think it's actually that warm so as to have much of an affect on you physiologically, it's the late teens, very early 20s, over mid distances. I did a 40 minute session lunch time on Monday and a handy 5k lunchtime Tuesday, both warmer than Wednesday which had a cooling breeze.

I was dripping sweat after the session but it never felt like it was stifling me. Maybe, to use the cliché, it's all in the head?

It's entirely possible that it's all in the head for me, because it doesn't need to be that hot, the sun just needs to be out!

I did the off the laois half there a couple of years ago. It was -2 degrees setting out but the most beautiful sunshiney morning. I wore a singlet and shorts and gloves. I had to lose the gloves! It was actually probably the most ideal running conditions for me and I loved the race but despite the temps being below zero, I wasn't a bit cold.

Clearlier

Outside of the extremes it's not the actual temperature that matters so much as the relative temperature. Even if it's only 20 degrees out there if it has suddenly jumped from 10 degrees then you're body does have to adapt.

I generally find that you'll start improving after a few days and you'll have more or less adapted as much as you're going to after 2 weeks. Everyone is different though. Before they moved London back two weeks it used to come just after a rise in temperatures and I noticed an awful lot of people running worse than they expected.

Everyone is an experiment of one though - the most important thing is to listen to your body. Steve Way who always ran well at London, notwithstanding the temperature changes, recently discovered his limits at the Wings for life event. Accustomed to adapting well to the heat he ignored all of the signs that his body hadn't adapted and suffered for it!

For me I have no doubt that I run best in cold weather (perhaps due to the extra insulation that I carry around) but I much prefer running when it's warm. So, training in the heat and racing in the cold is what suits me best.

Murph_D

livedadream wrote: »

any of the experienced runners want to give some advise to a girl doing the longest leg of the cork marathon relay and is seriously concerned about melting?

Doesn't look like it will be too bad on the day. Could change of course! Last race I ran promised perfect conditions and didn't deliver.

livedadream

Murph_D wrote: »

Doesn't look like it will be too bad on the day. Could change of course! Last race I ran promised perfect conditions and didn't deliver.

a nice gentle breeze would suit me grand hahahaa

thanks for that ive been look for something like that!

Utdfan20titles

Big fuss over nothing. All the africans run in the heat all the time and they go faster than everyone else. Doesn't affect them.

Maximus Alexander

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

Big fuss over nothing. All the africans run in the heat all the time and they go faster than everyone else. Doesn't affect them.

The Africans don't wear sunscreen in the desert either but I wouldn't suggest you try it.

Utdfan20titles

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

The Africans don't wear sunscreen in the desert either but I wouldn't suggest you try it.

How do you know?

RacoonQueen

ThisRegard wrote: »

I dunno, I don't think it's actually that warm so as to have much of an affect on you physiologically, it's the late teens, very early 20s, over mid distances. I did a 40 minute session lunch time on Monday and a handy 5k lunchtime Tuesday, both warmer than Wednesday which had a cooling breeze.

I was dripping sweat after the session but it never felt like it was stifling me. Maybe, to use the cliché, it's all in the head?

Absolutely not, heat affects different people differently. While some can adapt, some simply can't. Some people are just more prone to heat related illnesses than others (heat exhaustion) - underlying medical conditions and some medications can also make people more susceptible to the heat.
I'm guessing most of the people on this thread have never suffered from the heat rather than being a bit uncomfortable, I was sick on Tuesday night and I hadn't even run that day.
Just HTFU is actually fairly bad advice in my opinion (and experience)

btw by ill I mean nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, light sensitivity, fever etc which is how I'd get even in our 'good' Summers.

Utdfan20titles

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Absolutely not, heat affects different people differently. While some can adapt, some simply can't. Some people are just more prone to heat related illnesses than others (heat exhaustion) - underlying medical conditions and some medications can also make people more susceptible to the heat.
I'm guessing most of the people on this thread have never suffered from the heat rather than being a bit uncomfortable, I was sick on Tuesday night and I hadn't even run that day.
Just HTFU is actually fairly bad advice in my opinion (and experience)

More excuses. Just HTFU

Murph_D

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

More excuses. Just HTFU

Let's see how you handle the heat next season when The Special One becomes the King in the North. :pac:

Utdfan20titles

Murph_D wrote: »

Let's see how you handle the heat next season when The Special One becomes the King of the North. :pac:

He is already the king. The title will be coming home next season.

ThisRegard

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Absolutely not, heat affects different people differently. While some can adapt, some simply can't. Some people are just more prone to heat related illnesses than others (heat exhaustion) - underlying medical conditions and some medications can also make people more susceptible to the heat.
I'm guessing most of the people on this thread have never suffered from the heat rather than being a bit uncomfortable, I was sick on Tuesday night and I hadn't even run that day.
Just HTFU is actually fairly bad advice in my opinion (and experience)

btw by ill I mean nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, light sensitivity, fever etc which is how I'd get even in our 'good' Summers.

In fairness I didn't say htfu, I'm just surprised to see so many people say they suffer in not particularly hot weather over relatively short distances. Underlying illnesses were never previously mentioned.

I get it that some obviously are from reading this thread , just expected humidity to be a bigger factor than the temperature

livedadream

ThisRegard wrote: »

In fairness I didn't say htfu, I'm just surprised to see so many people say they suffer in not particularly hot weather over relatively short distances. Underlying illnesses were never previously mentioned.

I get it that some obviously are from reading this thread , just expected humidity to be a bigger factor than the temperature

to clarify coz i kinda feel like ive caused this argument, i have crohns disease. I brought the subject up and did mention an underlying medical condition. if your going to comment try reading the whole thread, or at least the original post about the weather/heat.

went out with my club last night and even some of our tenured runners struggled, have to disagree with the its all in the head mentality, these are guys that have done ultras but still wernt as comfortable as they normally would be.

firstly I asked because i know how the bay run affected me in the heat so was just asking for some advice, would like to not have a mini breakdown at 7km.

secondly most people when they complain about heat are just lumping in humidity, they just say jesus its hot today instead of god its 22 degrees and the humidity level of 70% of what not is terrible too, they just say its warm,no one is really that pedantic in real life.

its important to remember that not everyone in the forum here is an Ethiopian distance runner,or a tenured marathon runner, personally im a chubby irish girl for whom 10k is a huge achievement, some people suffer in the heat, some people dont, that doesnt mean we all need to HTFU to be fair.

but elitism in running is something ive come across before, its people like that, that make the sport a bit of a pain, but it doesnt take away from peoples achievements.

To the posters that helped thanks, im super hydrated and got on grand last night and by all accounts its going to be cooler on the day.

for anyone who is interested fergus wall did a good article on running in cork about the effects heat can have :

https://corkrunning.blogspot.ie/2016/06/running-cork-marathon-when-weather-is.html

ThisRegard

Oh, I must have speed read over where you mentioned Crohns as the OP was someone different and I was basing my replies on them.

Anyway, my all in the head wasn't a declaration, but a question. And people, well people I do know, will differentiate between temperature and humidity/heaviness when describing conditions, it's not really pedantic.

But as for your elitism comment, you couldn't be further off the mark when it comes to how I post on this forum, I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to suggestions of elitism. There isn't even a hint of it in the thread, and re. HTFU, I already said I never suggested anything like that.

RacoonQueen

ThisRegard wrote: »

In fairness I didn't say htfu, I'm just surprised to see so many people say they suffer in not particularly hot weather over relatively short distances. Underlying illnesses were never previously mentioned.

I get it that some obviously are from reading this thread , just expected humidity to be a bigger factor than the temperature

Just to clarify, the htfu reference in my post was more to contributors in this thread in general - I'd typed out that post a couple of times yesterday and just didn't bother posting it as I get the impression when this subject comes up (every year) that most people are too pigheaded to get that some people just don't adapt to the heat in the same way do
Your post just happened to be quoted in the larger point I was trying to make. HTFU has been mentioned numerous times in this thread.

ThisRegard

Maybe my virtual self should HTFU and stop thinking it's all about him, the self centred idiot:)

livedadream

ThisRegard wrote: »

Oh, I must have speed read over where you mentioned Crohns as the OP was someone different and I was basing my replies on them.

i wasnt addressing you in regards to elitism.

I quoted your text because you comments about underlying illnesses when i had expressly pointed out that i had one.

ThisRegard wrote: »

But as for your elitism comment, you couldn't be further off the mark. There isn't even a hint of it in the thread, and re. HTFU, I already said I never suggested anything like that.

i wasnt addressing you in regards to elitism. and i never addressed you in regards to HTFU etiher.

the other points are clearly in regards to what other posters have said.
cool your jets...

demfad

Clearlier wrote: »

Outside of the extremes it's not the actual temperature that matters so much as the relative temperature. Even if it's only 20 degrees out there if it has suddenly jumped from 10 degrees then you're body does have to adapt.

I generally find that you'll start improving after a few days and you'll have more or less adapted as much as you're going to after 2 weeks. Everyone is different though. Before they moved London back two weeks it used to come just after a rise in temperatures and I noticed an awful lot of people running worse than they expected.

Everyone is an experiment of one though - the most important thing is to listen to your body. Steve Way who always ran well at London, notwithstanding the temperature changes, recently discovered his limits at the Wings for life event. Accustomed to adapting well to the heat he ignored all of the signs that his body hadn't adapted and suffered for it!

For me I have no doubt that I run best in cold weather (perhaps due to the extra insulation that I carry around) but I much prefer running when it's warm. So, training in the heat and racing in the cold is what suits me best.

I think this is key and you adapt to heat as the season progresses.

Now this knowledge can have implications for how you plan races if a key race might fall on a hot day when you are not adapted.
An example would be a spring marathon in a hotter country. A marathon is a huge comittment. Do you avoid risky ones (temperature wise) or roll the dice? Is there another way to artificially heat adapt so the body is ready?

I had the minor misfortune to suffer from sciatic issues. I tried a few things before trying the hot yoga. Now, I'm not great with heat and the 90 mins working in 40' heat was tough. Second one was easier. After 4-5 it was under control. This was the time of that great summer (I think, 2015?). When i went out in the hot weather it was very clear that I had adapted. The mid-high twenties weather just felt like a little pleasant warmth on my skin.
In fact I had never been so well heat-adapted.
This might be a way for people to heat-adapt anticipating a probability of a hot marathon day.

Also, I remembered seeing that Nicola Duncan (sucessful marathon runner) did hot yoga as part of her weekly training. She did Vinyasa I think, I did Bikram. No doubt, She was doing it for the same reason as me: joint mobility, flxibility, strenght, posture etc. I have often wondered if ability to adapt to heat might be a factor during any marathon, where heat dispersal becomes more significant as the race progresses.

seamus

"HTFU/People adapt/My willy is bigger than yours", etc, can't offset basic facts of biology.

As the body's core temperature increases, it becomes less efficient at processing oxygen and must rely on anaerobic energy production sooner.

The body relies on sweating to cool down the body and reduce the core temperature. However, sweating also reduces the blood plasma volume and availability of water in the body, which again will result in a reduction in energy production ability.

The hotter it is, the more sweating the body needs to do to reduce core temperature, therefore it needs access to more water. It will also be producing more energy from anaerobic processes and therefore overall endurance is affected.

Humidity plays a massive factor here. When the air has low humidity, sweat readily evaporates and cooling is very effective. In high humidty, the air is already saturated and sweat takes a lot longer to evaporate. Your body cools more slowly, resulting in even more sweat being released, your performance and your endurance dip sooner than you expect.

These are simple facts regardless of how well someone has acclimatised to the current conditions. Heat adaptation makes a huge difference, but if it's 30 degree and 95% humidity, everyone will struggle.

Getting a good performance is about adequately preparing yourself for the given conditions. If you're expecting heat and humidity to need to ensure that you've properly hydrated the **** out of yourself in the days beforehand - not just water, but salts/electrolytes too. For races over 5k you'll also want to take in water/salt solutions on an ongoing basis through the race. YMMV - I could probably push 10k, though I wouldn't bank on feeling great at the end.

How do the Africans do it? They don't train during the hot parts of the day. Addis Abbaba was 15 degrees this morning at 7am.

demfad

seamus wrote: »

These are simple facts regardless of how well someone has acclimatised to the current conditions. Heat adaptation makes a huge difference, but if it's 30 degree and 95% humidity, everyone will struggle.

They are the facts. But as you suggest: heat adaption (which is acclimatisation) makes a huge difference as does pre-hydration in the time period beforehand.
If you can improve both before a race that might be hot/humid or both then it seems logical to do so.

sideswipe

Jeez, whatever about running in the heat, it sure makes people cranky😀

ThisRegard

Seasmus sent us down the road of science, so for the craic based on a previous remark I made I wore my HRM for one of my regular lunch routes today, ran it an easy enough pace like I usually do. Strava tells me I was 10 seconds below the average but HR was exactly the same as an identically paced run back in April.

There's a nice cool breeze so once I stopped my turned into a sweaty puddle. I've no doubt had there been no breeze with higher humidity I'd have been suffering.

HelenAnne

I'm not great in the heat. I love going for a training run in hot weather, but, like many Irish people, I find racing on a very warm (by Irish standards) day much harder than racing on a cold or wet day. However, I didn't really know what humidity felt like until I did a race in DC last summer. We were on holidays and signed up for the Capitol Hill Classic 10k (v fun!) -- it started at 8am, by which time it was 27 degrees and 75% humidity (no idea how this compares to Ireland, it was just what American runners were telling me). I set off cheerfully enough, as I sort of felt I didn't suffer in the heat as much as some (my poor husband was soaked in sweat just walking to the start - he really feels the heat), but a couple of miles in I was just thinking 'water, water' in a way I never have in an Irish race, and I felt like I was breathing through a cloth! I made it to the finish by saying 'just keep pumping your arms and then you can have a drink!', but my legs were so heavy! I ran two minutes faster in the WMM a week or so after in Dublin in lashing rain and strong winds. So I suppose it's just what we're used to!

And I like demfad's idea of the hot yoga! I might go back to it! (Haven't been since I stretched too far in the heat and pulled a muscle!)

YFlyer

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

More excuses. Just HTFU

Mr Keane?

Carrauntoohil IMRA tomorrow could be...erm...interesting.

No shelter, no relief, no water except what we carry...ouch.

4Ad

I barely managed 10 k today..I love the sun but running in it is a different matter..

rovers_runner

The trick is to maintain the same effort as you would on a cool day.
If the pace drops so be it.
Problem is when people who look for the easy way out blame external factors such as heat/wind/rain/snow.
Would be pretty boring for me if every run I did was in the same bland 10 degree misty calm weather.

Not a case of htfu but more like suck it up and get on with it.

Thank God for the lovely weather. Long may it continue !

hot buttered scones

Just had a lovely run around by the harbour in Cork, about 18 degrees, but with a lovely cool breeze off the sea and plenty of shade - perfect weather. The humidity was low I reckon and the sun felt energising rather than sapping me of energy. Great day for it.

As expected, bit of a furnace at times on Carrauntoohil, but cooled off near the summit.

hot buttered scones

What about taking a quick dip in the sea first (to cool off like). Then maybe take a quick spin on a bike or something (just to to dry off) before you head out for your run.

Cartman78

Fwiw I've noticed over the last couple of days,that the winning times from local races seem to be down on previous years eg. BMOH 10k won in 34 mins on Friday night so it would seem that the heat is affecting the club runner elites also

Phoole

I love running in the warm weather but the midday sun in June/July can be exhausting.

Clegg

Days like today are worse. It's cloudy and there's no sun but it's humid as feck.

demfad

More Science...

Magness had something on temperature regulation.

At room temperature. The body disspates heat mainly from radiation (almost 50% (I think) dont have it in front of me) and evaporation. Convection then accounts for 13% with conduction only 3%.
Radiation, convection and conduction relies on a temperature gradient to allow the transfer of heat. i.e the external temperature is a good deal cooler than the body. On hot days this wont be the case and evaporation would account for most of heat dissipation. If it's humid then evaporation will not occur.
Heat loss would still occur (sweat pouring off presumably).
A body can sweat a litre of fluid if not heat adapted but up to 4 litres if heat adapted. This is achieved by an increase in blood plasma.
Apparently there is an endurance advantage to this adaption even in cooler weather. American marathoner Frank Shorter used to 'hot weather train' in Florida as well as altitude train in Boulder.

hot buttered scones

After yesterday in Cork the answer to the thread title is a resounding yes from me. The humidity killed me and I wilted any time I ran in direct sunlight. 75% of every water bottle went over my head - I felt ill from the heat and my HR was way above what it should have been. I could barely stomach the water anyway. I had to drop the pace right back because I just didn't feel good. And I only did the half. The full must have been torture.

Maximus Alexander

I went out for an easy 5k yesterday and by the end my heart rate was in the 180s even though I was breathing slowly and comfortably through my nose the entire time. Either the optical HRM was thrown off by the 20 gallons of sweat dripping off me, or yes, the heat really affects me. :eek:

ThisRegard

The last few days have been pretty heavy alright.

scheister

Ran Derry marathon on sunday and the heat cost me a good 15/20 minutes. Also a lot of people i spoke to where thinking about the heat cost them at least 10 minutes.

Most people did not feel the heat hit them till about 8 mile mark which i think is interest and wonder if it would really effect most people over the shorter distances.

Phoole

It supposed to get cooler and more unsettled this weekend, which will be nicer for the Irish Runner 5 Mile.

HelenAnne

I was surprised at how close to my PB I was at the WMM yesterday (just 6 secs slower); so I suppose I will now say that the heat affects me, in that I feel less comfortable, but it didn't affect my 10k time.