AMD RX 4xx Discussion Thread

Venom

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If they can produce it in volume and get that level of performance, then yes it would.

At this point I don't think they even need to have the volume for such a card to do well as if it performs close to or better than a 980, even with the same jump in price over previous generations like 1070/1080 have, I can see customers putting up with long wait times and paying over the odds as can be seen in the latest Nvidia thread.

dunworth1

Venom wrote: »

At this point I don't think they even need to have the volume for such a card to do well as if it performs close to or better than a 980, even with the same jump in price over previous generations like 1070/1080 have, I can see customers putting up with long wait times and paying over the odds as can be seen in the latest Nvidia thread.

where are people getting it'll preform close to a 980?

B00MSTICK

dunworth1 wrote: »

where are people getting it'll preform close to a 980?

He did say 'if'...
Wccftech have a small writeup that's probably a load of crap: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-gtx-1060-special-launch-event-july/
They are speculating 970-980 but who knows.

Venom

dunworth1 wrote: »

where are people getting it'll preform close to a 980?

I don't get why so many people seem so surprised at the idea of the 1060 beating the 980!

1080 > Titan X
1070 > 980Ti
1060 > 980
1050 > 970

dunworth1

Venom wrote:

1080 > Titan X 1070 > 980Ti 1060 > 980 1050 > 970

That's all speculation no actual hard facts.

Venom

dunworth1 wrote: »

That's all speculation no actual hard facts.

The first two are hard facts and the lower two follow a logical pattern that makes a good deal of sense.


The 480 with a good overclock was claimed to beat a 1070 and no one bat an eye about it, yet a 1060 matching the 980 in performance seems to blow peoples minds!

K.O.Kiki

Venom wrote: »

The first two are hard facts and the lower two follow a logical pattern that makes a good deal of sense.


The 480 with a good overclock was claimed to beat a 1070 and no one bat an eye about it, yet a 1060 matching the 980 in performance seems to blow peoples minds!

Wait for benchmarks.

Eoinmc97

Venom wrote: »

The first two are hard facts and the lower two follow a logical pattern that makes a good deal of sense.


The 480 with a good overclock was claimed to beat a 1070 and no one bat an eye about it, yet a 1060 matching the 980 in performance seems to blow peoples minds!

Where was the 480 beating a 1070? We knew from last year that the RX 480 will sit roughly between the 970 and 980...which it does in most titles. Anyone who thought otherwise was being very optimistic.
However, what is unclear is the overclocking potential of the card. HardOCP claim AIBs are 'very happy' and 1400MHz+ have been seen. This would sit the 480 on the 980-390X level (I think a bit more, but eh).

I'm wondering about the 1060;
We have 0 information on die size, but it must be smaller than the 1070, otherwiss nVidia wouldn't make that much money off the 1060 (14nm is oroving expensive)
We have 0 information on price other than a "$250-$300" pric point. If this is the case, the 1060 is not a mid-range anymore, but close to enthusiast. This is following nVidia's trend of bumping the price across each generation.
Then there's the rumour of the 1060 being mobile only along with the 1050"Ti" (I highly doubt the Ti will appear yet. They said the 1060Ti would appear too, but nVidia reserve the Ti for the x50 and x80 range.)

Venom

Eoinmc97 wrote: »

Where was the 480 beating a 1070? We knew from last year that the RX 480 will sit roughly between the 970 and 980...which it does in most titles. Anyone who thought otherwise was being very optimistic.
However, what is unclear is the overclocking potential of the card. HardOCP claim AIBs are 'very happy' and 1400MHz+ have been seen. This would sit the 480 on the 980-390X level (I think a bit more, but eh).

I'm wondering about the 1060;
We have 0 information on die size, but it must be smaller than the 1070, otherwiss nVidia wouldn't make that much money off the 1060 (14nm is oroving expensive)
We have 0 information on price other than a "$250-$300" pric point. If this is the case, the 1060 is not a mid-range anymore, but close to enthusiast. This is following nVidia's trend of bumping the price across each generation.
Then there's the rumour of the 1060 being mobile only along with the 1050"Ti" (I highly doubt the Ti will appear yet. They said the 1060Ti would appear too, but nVidia reserve the Ti for the x50 and x80 range.)

Well AMD implied via the AOTS demo, that two 480's kept up with a 1080.

The OC potential of the 480 is in a pretty weird place at the moment as it seems you need to up the power requirements of the card rather than the adjusting the clockspeed and memory as TTL from OC3D explains in the vid below...

The problem the 480 runs into, is the 6 pin power connector isin't being used to supply this power and instead its being brought in via the PCI-E slot which could cause damage over time on low end motherboards.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Power-Consumption-Concerns-Radeon-RX-480/Overclocking-Current-Testing

It's seems even the first batch of AIB 480's require this power boosting method or otherwise offer the exact same performance as the stock card even tho they have higher clockspeeds

It also seems the chip thermal throttles itself when hitting 90-94c which is a direct cause of pushing more power to the card :pac: The folks over at Nvidia must be laughing their asses off

As for the 1060, wait and see I guess.

thegreenbean

The power draw from the pci-e slot would be a concern for me. I bet that thing gets toasty. The aib's will be the cards to have i think

Eoinmc97

Venom wrote: »

Well AMD implied via the AOTS demo, that two 480's kept up with a 1080.

The OC potential of the 480 is in a pretty weird place at the moment as it seems you need to up the power requirements of the card rather than the adjusting the clockspeed and memory as TTL from OC3D explains in the vid below...

The problem the 480 runs into, is the 6 pin power connector isin't being used to supply this power and instead its being brought in via the PCI-E slot which could cause damage over time on low end motherboards.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Power-Consumption-Concerns-Radeon-RX-480/Overclocking-Current-Testing

It's seems even the first batch of AIB 480's require this power boosting method or otherwise offer the exact same performance as the stock card even tho they have higher clockspeeds

It also seems the chip thermal throttles itself when hitting 90-94c which is a direct cause of pushing more power to the card :pac: The folks over at Nvidia must be laughing their asses off

As for the 1060, wait and see I guess.

That was CF though, I wouldn't touch that at all.
On the PCI-E power thing, it seems some do and some don't. I haven't a clue if this is down to review samples being sent 8GB chips that have custom firmware to swap between 8GB and 4GB, or if it's just a poor quality control. I mean, PCI-E reserve the right to put their standard on products, they must have to test it. Maybe that was Engineering Sample sillicon and not production? Who knows really until AMD find out what's going on.
Whilst it would have been smart to give the chip an 8pin, nVidia were using that on the 1080, which would make GCN look bad vs Pascal. Whilst GCN SPs won't ever match Cuda effeciency (AMD should ditch DP compute and the other baggage it has for "prosumers") they have beaten them on IPC, considering the RX 480 matches the 390 with less SPs. So maybe....maaaybe they are on track to catching up.
IMO, the reference should not exist. AIBs will do a better job, offer their own Power config, display outputs and better cooling. They had no reference 380/390, so why start now?

Venom

Eoinmc97 wrote: »

That was CF though, I wouldn't touch that at all.
On the PCI-E power thing, it seems some do and some don't. I haven't a clue if this is down to review samples being sent 8GB chips that have custom firmware to swap between 8GB and 4GB, or if it's just a poor quality control. I mean, PCI-E reserve the right to put their standard on products, they must have to test it. Maybe that was Engineering Sample sillicon and not production? Who knows really until AMD find out what's going on.
Whilst it would have been smart to give the chip an 8pin, nVidia were using that on the 1080, which would make GCN look bad vs Pascal. Whilst GCN SPs won't ever match Cuda effeciency (AMD should ditch DP compute and the other baggage it has for "prosumers") they have beaten them on IPC, considering the RX 480 matches the 390 with less SPs. So maybe....maaaybe they are on track to catching up.
IMO, the reference should not exist. AIBs will do a better job, offer their own Power config, display outputs and better cooling. They had no reference 380/390, so why start now?

It was also multiple retail bought cards from different countries that were tested when the PCI-E issue came to light and were found to overdraw from the motherboard as well. The 380/390 was a revision of the 280/290 so the same basic chip hence no need for reference cards from the AIB's but there were reference cards.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1561704/official-amd-r9-390-390x-owners-club/0_100

B00MSTICK

Gibbo from OC has said the Sapphire Nitro is coming in around £275 which is around €320.

May be reflective of the value of sterling and the fact that its an OC'd version but its definitely over my budget.
Hopefully a non-OC'd card will be a bit more favourable... roll on the GTX1060!

Venom

B00MSTICK wrote: »

Gibbo from OC has said the Sapphire Nitro is coming in around £275 which is around €320.

May be reflective of the value of sterling and the fact that its an OC'd version but its definitely over my budget.
Hopefully a non-OC'd card will be a bit more favourable... roll on the GTX1060!

The launch price for reference cards was around €250-270 so €300-320 seems about right for an AIB card. People need to take account that the great prices/value so often claimed about tech products is always the US price which we in Ireland get screwed over on due to currency rates

Cuddlesworth

I might be wrong but a couple of things have come out.

-Card pulls more power over the pci-ex port when the power draw is increased in the overclock menu
-Card is power limited at 150watts normally
-There is a reason for that, performance/power tanks past that point and temps shoot through the roof. In otherwords the rate of return is substantially less then standards settings.
-The 4gig card is slightly slower then the 8gig at 1080p(circa 4%).
-A number of reviewers used older drivers for their review which skewed results in Nvidias favour. Very noticably the one that broke NDA.
-A number of others reviewers used top end factory OC'd 970's against the reference 480 which skewed the results in Nvidias favour
-The price of the 970 has tanked

The takeaways seem to be.
-If your gaming at 1080p, don't feel like overclocking and plan to keep the card for the next few years, the reference 8gig rx480 is still a very good buy versus the 970 because of the additional vRam and the driver increases expected from a new product.
-If your on a strict budget, the 4 gig 480 is a extremely good buy.
-If you want a very quiet card, you are interested in overlocking or if your budget is closer to 300 Euros its going to be worth it to wait for both the AIB cards and the release of the 1060 before making up your mind.

earthwormjack

The sapphire nitro will be £249 delivered now, according to gibbo on overclockers.

FAILSAFE 00

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

-A number of reviewers used older drivers for their review which skewed results in Nvidias favour. Very noticably the one that broke NDA.

Most of the reviews I watched were using the latest drivers and the results were still in the same range, beaten by the 970 in many and beating the 970 in a few.

B00MSTICK

"Leaked" 1060 specs are on videocardz - given they were the main culprit of exaggerating the 480 performance I wouldn't take anything on there as anyway reliable.

Cuddlesworth

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Most of the reviews I watched were using the latest drivers and the results were still in the same range, beaten by the 970 in many and beating the 970 in a few.

Reference or OC'd cards for the 970? Dx11 or Dx12 benchmarks? What games were tested?

Because there are games that Nvidia does better in and there are API's that AMD works better with. Because sites that did reviews with reference 970's show them pretty much on a par, with games that use a lot of vram being the only obvious lead as the 970 struggles. (Guru3d being one of the more comprehensive review sites I've seen). But sites that used OC'd models of 970's showed leads where the reference cards wouldn't because both are so close in performance.

When one card score 56 fps and the other card score 54 fps, you have to be a little critical of other factors for long term purchase. Like driver development, Dx12 adoption, vram and most importantly price. The 970 over time is not getting any better, its been out for quite a while. The 1060 will have a fair bit of room for improvement, as will the 480. There is a reason why every reviewer and site has pretty much given the AMD cards their recommendation, except for "tech of tomorrow". Who pretty much shafted AMD.

Remember 80% of the graphics market is cards between 150 to 300 dollars. At the moment as far as I can see, AMD are in direct competition at the high point here and are killing it at the mid side with the 4 gig model. Its on my radar to replace my 3 year old 7870/270x that cost me 130 Euros. Look at the number of threads in this forum alone for people who want to build a pc for 600 quid and game at 1080p. It suits them to the ground, its tanked the value of the 970 and its brought really good performance to a price range that up until recently was still dominated by cards like the above.

Venom

B00MSTICK wrote: »

"Leaked" 1060 specs are on videocardz - given they were the main culprit of exaggerating the 480 performance I wouldn't take anything on there as anyway reliable.

Most of the leaked stuff came from WCCFtech. Total clickbait site.

K.O.Kiki

http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/07/amd-rx-480-crossfire-vs-nvidia-gtx-1080-ashes/

DONE.
IT'S OVER.

GTX 1080 > dual RX 480 > 1070

EoinHef

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/07/amd-rx-480-crossfire-vs-nvidia-gtx-1080-ashes/

DONE.
IT'S OVER.

GTX 1080 > dual RX 480 > 1070

From the article you linked,so not really faster than a 1070.

It found that while the RX 480 fared well in certain games, on average it was much slower than a GTX 1080, and just slightly slower than a GTX 1070. Given that the 1070 costs roughly the same as a pair of 4GB RX 480s, buying them outright isn't a particularly good idea.

thegreenbean

The AIB's will be very interesting. I wonder will two of them be cheaper than a 1080 and out perform it? Interesting article.

Skerries

BloodBath

AIB's reported to overclock in the 1400-1600Mhz range from 1266Mhz reference speeds.

Average of around 20% more than the reference model. If they can achieve a similar boost through drivers this card will be a lot faster than it is now.

Cuddlesworth

thegreenbean wrote: »

The AIB's will be very interesting. I wonder will two of them be cheaper than a 1080 and out perform it? Interesting article.

It would never be worth it. Even if they outperformed a 1080 by 10-15% it would not be worth it. Crossfire and SLI are simply there for people with money to burn. They have never worked well, they have never scaled well. Its always been worth more to simply buy a better single card.

Explicit Multi GPU with DX12 might change that. But, and I say but, it's at least a year away probably two. I haven't seen any major game engines take it onboard yet.

EoinHef

BloodBath wrote: »

AIB's reported to overclock in the 1400-1600Mhz range from 1266Mhz reference speeds.

Average of around 20% more than the reference model. If they can achieve a similar boost through drivers this card will be a lot faster than it is now.

They will have to have upped the power limit on the cards though to make use of those clocks,be interesting to see if this will be the case.

Thats according to OC3D's second video that went up yesterday. He was saying that results in benches were the same no matter what the clocks until he upped the power limit on the cards,at that point the results went up based on the clocks.

MarkAnthony

As always with AMD so many IFs

If the board partners can keep the price, temps and noise down and the clocks and power up we'll have a real winner on our hands here. The 4GB version of this at stock isn't too bad, but the 8GB version would be nice if it was 'enthusiast grade'. It's really stupid for want of an 8pin connector we're having these issues.

There could potentially be a nice little price war going on with the 1060 when it eventually hits. It would be freakin' awesome to see a decent 8GB 480 come down to €199, we'd have a real shot at 60FPS 1080p Ultra settings for under €500 which would be very nice indeed! Perhaps even some systems with compromises on SSDs and CPUs for under €400.

K.O.Kiki

Seems like AMD let "slip" that the RX 490 is on the way also.

I might just wait on that, seems there's a few 29" Ultrawide IPS 75Hz Freesync monitors I could pair it with (like this)

dunworth1

MarkAnthony wrote:

There could potentially be a nice little price war going on with the 1060 when it eventually hits. It would be freakin' awesome to see a decent 8GB 480 come down to €199, we'd have a real shot at 60FPS 1080p Ultra settings for under €500 which would be very nice indeed! Perhaps even some systems with compromises on SSDs and CPUs for under €400.

The next year or so should be very interesting in the gpu market I'm going to hold off until next year and build a new pc.

But amd getting back into the game will finally give nvidia a stir