Western Marine in Bulloch Harbour is Closed?

patrickbrophy18

It just came to my attention from reading the June Edition of Dalkey Community Council Newsletter that Western Marine in Bulloch Harbour closed back in April.
I'm incredibly surprised that this slipped beneath my radar. I wonder what will go in its place as the site has a huge amount of mixed use potential.

jpfahy

The site has been sold to 'Bartra something or other' who might be Treasury Holdings in disguise. They will be seeking planning to build three three-storey luxury houses there. The site includes the area occupied by Western Marine plus the area of rocks accessed through the gateway at the end. The Bulloch Harbour Preservation Association was established yesterday to resist such a large development on the site

patrickbrophy18

jpfahy wrote: »

The site has been sold to 'Bartra something or other' who might be Treasury Holdings in disguise. They will be seeking planning to build three three-storey luxury houses there. The site includes the area occupied by Western Marine plus the area of rocks accessed through the gateway at the end. The Bulloch Harbour Preservation Association was established yesterday to resist such a large development on the site

As in resisting three story luxury homes?

Given the space Western Marine Warehouse takes up, the land is big enough to fit two or three retail units comfortably. Perhaps, a convenience store, coffee shop and a smarter looking marine shop would be the most appropriate use for it.

A small commercial center would certainly draw more visitors to the hourbour to take full advantage of its potential. However, I fear that luxury homes (residential development) is going to result in the privatization of the site to the would-be residents who end up living there.

ted1

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

As in resisting three story luxury homes?

Given the space Western Marine Warehouse takes up, the land is big enough to fit two or three retail units comfortably. Perhaps, a convenience store, coffee shop and a smarter looking marine shop would be the most appropriate use for it.

A small commercial center would certainly draw more visitors to the hourbour to take full advantage of its potential. However, I fear that luxury homes (residential development) is going to result in the privatization of the site to the would-be residents who end up living there.

A seafood restaurant would do well done there . As for a convince store , I think your way of the mark.

Tabnabs

Parking and traffic were an issue for Western any time I visited there. I also doubt you'd get a commercial venture in there that could successfully pay off the cost of purchasing the site as well as the rebuild/refurbishment. Luxury homes in one of the most stunning parts of Dublin is what's commercially viable.

The Bulloch Harbour Preservation Association was established yesterday to resist such a large development on the site

Set up by "local" residents to put off potential new residents no doubt. Welcome to South County Dublin... :rolleyes:

ted1

remember this: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/council-wants-to-put-halting-site-in-posh-suburb-26579997.html

patrickbrophy18

There's now a plan for the site here. It consists of residential units as well other uses including a cafe . It will be interesting to see the planning documents when they've been uploaded.

qb123

Would be interested to know what "marine based activity units" are? Think the idea of cafe is good too, would question its ability to survive though given that the area is generally pretty quiet. 9 houses in total (3 detached and 6 terraced) seems like a suitably intense use of the site.

Fratton Fred

qb123 wrote: »

Would be interested to know what "marine based activity units" are

A chandler and a diving store maybe?

ted1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

A chandler and a diving store maybe?

A Starbucks with a ring bouy hanging in the wall?
A kayak/sup sales/rental/tours shop could de well depending on the kind of rent

gumbo1

Is this the boat rental place?

ted1

gumbo1 wrote: »

Is this the boat rental place?

No it's the large industrial site beside it where the marine shop was.

gumbo1

Thanks. I can't imagine the folks that hire the boats and live there would be too keen on developing the area the way it has been suggested!

Fratton Fred

Planning permission refused

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/bulloch-harbour-development-refused-planning-permission-1.2965361

dublinman1990

Great news. Common sense wins out with rejecting this proposal.

ted1

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Great news. Common sense wins out with rejecting this proposal.

Did the other application to clear the site get rejected ?

patrickbrophy18

I'm glad that the application was refused given that the proposed structure was a complete eyesore reminiscent of a 1970s sci-fi movie. Having said that, the Western Marine building isn't that attractive either.

Anyway, the Dun Laoghaire County Council cite "not enough marine based activity" as one of the main reasons for refusal. However, I don't think the purpose of the harbour should be confined solely to marine activity. From personal experience, I haven't once been down to Western Marine since I stopped sailing nearly 15 years ago. In other words, there are people out there with interests other than niche hobbies such as sailing, fishing and diving. So, I really hope that whatever becomes of the site caters for as many interests as possible AS WELL AS marine based activity.

ted1

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I'm glad that the application was refused given that the proposed structure was a complete eyesore reminiscent of a 1970s sci-fi movie. Having said that, the Western Marine building isn't that attractive either.

Anyway, the Dun Laoghaire County Council cite "not enough marine based activity" as one of the main reasons for refusal. However, I don't think the purpose of the harbour should be confined solely to marine activity. From personal experience, I haven't once been down to Western Marine since I stopped sailing nearly 15 years ago. In other words, there are people out there with interests other than niche hobbies such as sailing, fishing and diving. So, I really hope that whatever becomes of the site caters for as many interests as possible AS WELL AS marine based activity.

In all fairness it should be marine activity. Plenty of other land available for none marine activity. I regular travel the world to partake in Marine based activities. There are great number of commercial marine based activities it could be used for , the likes of the tram yard in Dalkey are available for non marine based activities.

patrickbrophy18

ted1 wrote: »

In all fairness it should be marine activity....I regular travel the world to partake in Marine based activities.

And I respect that given that it's a lovely way to spend your free time. However, I just think that there is a broader spectrum of interests which need to be accommodated to maximize footfall.

ted1 wrote: »

There are great number of commercial marine based activities it could be used for , the likes of the tram yard in Dalkey are available for non marine based activities.

I agree with this. In fact, Bulloch and Coliemore Harbours clearly have a lot of untapped potential. Instead of competing with each other, they could compliment each other. Imagine a ferry service operating to Dalkey Island from Bulloch Harbour via Coliemore Harbour. There could be another ferry service operating from Coliemore Harbour to Howth Harbour via Bulloch Harbour. Bulloch Harbour could have cafes, newsagents and tourist shops to generate some vibrancy while the some of the disused space adjacent to Coliemore could be reserved for food and coffee stalls.

ted1 wrote: »

The likes of the tram yard in Dalkey are available for non marine based activities.

Unfortunately, all trade to the retail units of the Tramyard has ceased indefinitely.

ted1

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

And I respect that given that it's a lovely way to spend your free time. However, I just think that there is a broader spectrum of interests which need to be accommodated to maximize footfall.



I agree with this. In fact, Bulloch and Coliemore Harbours clearly have a lot of untapped potential. Instead of competing with each other, they could compliment each other. Imagine a ferry service operating to Dalkey Island from Bulloch Harbour via Coliemore Harbour. There could be another ferry service operating from Coliemore Harbour to Howth Harbour via Bulloch Harbour. Bulloch Harbour could have cafes, newsagents and tourist shops to generate some vibrancy while the some of the disused space adjacent to Coliemore could be reserved for food and coffee stalls.



Unfortunately, all trade to the retail units of the Tramyard has ceased indefinitely.

Ferries to Dalkey island ? What happens outside of summer, Ken provides a good service already

Why the need to increase the footfalll to the detriment of the harbour.

Western marine has ceased trading that's how these plans came about, sane could happen the tramyard that was my point that there are places available for non marine based activities.

Cafes, that's the DLRcOCo answer to everything. Not very original, a newsagent ? There's an empty one in Sandycove you could use.

What about a dive school/centre with accommodation for students/divers. Kayak/SUP rentals.
Adventure centre. There a great setup in Dunmore east that could be copied.
Plenty more marine options that would bring in tourist and local money.

patrickbrophy18

ted1 wrote: »

Why the need to increase the footfalll to the detriment of the harbour.

How is an increase in footfall detrimental?

More footfall equals more use which in turn, means more exposure.

ted1 wrote: »

Cafes, that's the DLRcOCo answer to everything. Not very original, a newsagent ? There's an empty one in Sandycove you could use.

Cafes are common meet up places which in this case, would have the added advantage of being able to look over the bay while having a warm cuppa.

ted1 wrote: »

There a great setup in Dunmore east that could be copied.
Plenty more marine options that would bring in tourist and local money.

The more the merrier.

ted1

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

How is an increase in footfall detrimental?

More footfall equals more use which in turn, means more exposure.



Cafes are common meet up places which in this case, would have the added advantage of being able to look over the bay while having a warm cuppa.



The more the merrier.

With regard ms footfall why is the more the merrier, sure putting a newsagents may increase footfall , but what benefit is that? You are changing the use of a historical harbour , one of only a handful in Dublin. So yes increasing footfall for the sake of increasing footfall is detrimental

Cafes are over done and are boring. A seafood bar selling local crabs, lobsters would be a better option and if planning is dine currently it'll keep the rent lower to make it more substanable.

I don't agree with the more the merrier. Only this morning I was reading an article about how Barcelona are trying to discourage tourists as the numbers are ruining the city. Locals are being pushed out by hotels , airbnbs, local cafes/pubs being pushed out be tourist shops etc

Fratton Fred

looks like a lovely place for a romantic evening meal



If they put in a cafe, restaurant or even housing, it is going to need some serious improvements to make the place safer for the extra footfall.

Gareth Keenan

Fratton Fred wrote: »

looks like a lovely place for a romantic evening meal



If they put in a cafe, restaurant or even housing, it is going to need some serious improvements to make the place safer for the extra footfall.

in this photo, what is the building with the first-floor windows? As far as I recall, Western Marine was through the gate and back and to the right from their main door. I can't remember what was in the bit directly behind the red and two blue shacks. Was it part of WM as well?

Tabnabs

All part of the WM property, I was inside it once, it was being used to repair old boats for resale.

Awaaf

Any development will need to take into account that there is close to zero parking between the AIB at Castle Street Dalkey and Sandycove via Bulloch most days.

patrickbrophy18

ted1 wrote: »

With regard ms footfall why is the more the merrier, sure putting a newsagents may increase footfall , but what benefit is that? You are changing the use of a historical harbour , one of only a handful in Dublin. So yes increasing footfall for the sake of increasing footfall is detrimental

I still don't get why you are referring to an increase in footfall as detrimental. Detrimental to what exactly?

I still don't get the need to restrict (pigeon hole) the use of any development solely to marine based activities. I get that it's beside the see and all. However, in the years since I stopped sailing, I haven't once been to Western Marine as it is too niche for my liking. If it is to benefit the entire community, it needs to be far more mainstream.

In general, I think the fact that this site is yet to be developed makes it a golden opportunity to stream line the facility so that it can regain some of the function it lost to Dun Laoghaire Harbour. At the same time, it shouldn't just be about boat owners and other marine enthusiasts as not everyone is into those activities.

For flexibility's sake, there could be a broader retail mix. For example, with 6 retail units you could have a newsagent, cafe, sushi restaurant, a takeaway unit, marine based unit (like Killen Marine) and a shop operating a ferry service to Dalkey Island and possibly Howth as well.

Bottom-line, there is so much potential for the site in question. Sadly, the refused proposal failed miserably to capitalize on it.

ted1 wrote: »

I don't agree with the more the merrier. Only this morning I was reading an article about how Barcelona are trying to discourage tourists as the numbers are ruining the city. Locals are being pushed out by hotels , airbnbs, local cafes/pubs being pushed out be tourist shops etc

It is quite a comparison to make between chronic overcrowding in Barcelona and a hypothetical increase in footfall to Bulloch Harbour given that Barcelona is a city.

ted1 wrote: »

Cafes are over done and are boring. A seafood bar selling local crabs, lobsters would be a better option and if planning is dine currently it'll keep the rent lower to make it more substanable.

To re-iterate what I said above, there could be a development on the site that would *include a sushi/seafood restaurant, a takeaway unit, marine based unit (like Killen Marine) and a shop operating a ferry service to Dalkey Island and possibly Howth as well.

* By include, I mean include but NOT LIMITED TO.

On a much larger scale, it's like Our Lady's Manor. It is the only property in Dalkey which gets away being up to 6 stories high given the sharp elevation gradient between Harbour Road and Ulverton Road. As such, this property has enormous prospects. However, given its current use as a nursing home, that's a massive amount of potential gone to waste. Then, there is the adjoining Bulloch Castle which is used only by the nuns. For this site, you could've had a massive diaspora center or other tourist hot spot.

tabbey

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

there is the adjoining Bulloch Castle which is used only by the nuns.

My great aunt used occupy a room in the castle when she was able for the stairs, it was her way of getting a place in the main nursing home when she was unable for stairs etc.
It had some lovely character as well as the view.