A+A on Brexit - The Return of the Living Dead

jackofalltrades

robindch wrote: »

Farage's pseudo-Nazi "breaking point" ad is a good example.
Otherwise, well, if you haven't noticed already that the brexit campaign is jingoistic and xenophobic, then I don't think that anything I can say is likely to enlighten you.

So all you have is one debatable example.

As somebody said recently, you can't deny responsibility for a fire by claiming that all you did was strike the match.

In which case you should probably close this thread, before others like Michael Steven Sandford are "comforted" by it.

jackofalltrades

MrPudding wrote: »

So, interesting story... I have just been speaking to my neighbour. She went to vote and as she approached the entrance to the polling station she noticed there was a man partially blocking the entrance. She assumed he was part of the polling team, but was confused as he had a political button on his jacket. As she got up to him he asked her for her polling card. She told him she didn't have it, and did not think she needed it. She pushed passed him into the centre.

She spoke to the staff inside and they told her he was not a polling official. Apparently, early that had been considerably more of them, but they moved them on. As my neighbour was leaving the guy had stopped a young woman and had her polling card in his hand and was either writing something on it, or copying something off it. Very odd, my neighbour called the police and reported it.

Very odd behaviour. Not entirely sure what the purpose of it is.

MrP

Having to push past someone partially blocking the entrance to a polling station is ridiculous.
I'd encourage her to contact the police, because the polling staff don't seem to be doing a good enough job.
Behaviour like that needs to be nipped in the bud fast before others think of copying them.

MrPudding

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Having to push past someone partially blocking the entrance to a polling station is ridiculous.
I'd encourage her to contact the police, because the polling staff don't seem to be doing a good enough job.
Behaviour like that needs to be nipped in the bud fast before others think of copying them.

So I have some more details. It is perfectly legal for people to be outside the polling station and ask for the polling cards. What is not allowed is making entry difficult and being aggressive and intimidating.

i spoke with the staff in the station and they told me that had to get some of them to move on, they had received over 20 complaints from people trying to vote. It seems that some of these guys were overly aggressive.

So, what were they actually up to? Well, you learn something new every day. Apparently, as the party workers are canvassing, when they visit a house and the person tells them they will be voting their way, they will make a note of that. On polling day they take a copy of the register with them and wait outside the polling station. As people tell them their polling number (which they don't have to) they mark them off the list. After about 2000hrs they check their list for people that said they would vote their way, but haven't turned up. They will then send a car to that address to ask why the person hasn't voted yet and if they want a lift. I had no idea that went on.

My objection to it was the aggressive and intimidating behaviour, though the guy I saw when I took my mother to vote was very polite. I also think they are being a little misleading. The guy that was there when I was had a chair and a clipboard, he looked reasonably official. Whilst he did not say he was an official, neither did he say be wasn't.

MrP

smacl

Wow, not as expected. Bad news for anyone exporting products to the UK on a tight margin as sterling took a dive this morning. Fingers crossed the markets don't take too much of a knicker fit and turn a problem into a crisis, as Tim Farron of the lib dems reckons the UK is now heading for recession. Still, not all bad as Marine Le Penn hails it as a "Victory for Freedom" :rolleyes:

Wonder how much the flooding in London and the south affected the outcome? Act of God maybe? The end is nigh, I tell you!! :pac:

silverharp

its a big fck you to Merkel , her open door migration policy from last year easily behind the marginal vote

nozzferrahhtoo

Is there any credibility to this? I know entirely nothing about EU Law....

http://www.businessinsider.de/green-eu-referendum-not-legally-binding-brexit-2016-6?r=UK&IR=T

smacl

silverharp wrote: »

its a big fck you to Merkel , her open door migration policy from last year easily behind the marginal vote

The worst political decision since a bunch of Germans decided to vote for a small man with a small moustache.

pH

Who would have thought that calling people racists and bigots isn't a good way to get them to vote the way you'd like?

Still, not as resounding a defeat as the Irish people gave the first Lisbon treaty, but we all know how that turned out. Maybe the UK might get another chance to get it right like we did?

MrPudding

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Is there any credibility to this? I know entirely nothing about EU Law....

http://www.businessinsider.de/green-eu-referendum-not-legally-binding-brexit-2016-6?r=UK&IR=T

I can't read that, but I think I get the gist. The answer is, kind of... The referendum does not start the process of the UK's exit from the EU, it simply shows that a small majority of the population want it. This could, technically, be ignored.

Article 50 of the Lisbon Agreement lays out the process and procedure for exiting the EU. It requires certain formalities, a referendum is not a requirement, nor does it satisfy the formalities.

There are, I believe there are 3 options for the government:

1) Trigger Article 50 and begin the formal process of leaving the EU.
2) Don't trigger Article 50 but pass legislation to reverse the treaty that started the UK's membership and unpick the subsequent legislation.
3) Do nothing.

I don't think the government can do nothing. I genuinely believe leaving is the wrong decision, but it would be unthinkable for the government to ignore that decision.

I don't think number 2 would be wise. It would indicate a disdain for international agreements and commitments that would be highly damaging to the country.

The only thing that is certain right now is that interesting time lie ahead.

MrP

PopePalpatine

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Is there any credibility to this? I know entirely nothing about EU Law....

http://www.businessinsider.de/green-eu-referendum-not-legally-binding-brexit-2016-6?r=UK&IR=T

Technically speaking, yes, the parliament can decide to vote against the result of the referendum.

smacl

Pat Leahy in the Irish Times is certainly all doom and gloom, and also of the opinion that this will spark a deep recession and return to austerity budgets locally.

seamus

smacl wrote: »

Pat Leahy in the Irish Times is certainly all doom and gloom, and also of the opinion that this will spark a deep recession and return to austerity budgets locally.

Media reporting that a bloodbath is expected for international banks when the U.S. markets open.

It'll affect everyone, but City of London will be at the centre of it. Going to be an austere Christmas in the UK.

MrPudding wrote: »

They are, for the most part, impervious to rational arguments.

When I saw the result this morning I was instantly reminded of an older woman who the BBC interviewed outside a polling station who said she was voting leave, to "bring things back the way they were. So England can be...eh...England again".

Well, congratulation lady. The UK economy is returning to 1969! You did it!

smacl

seamus wrote: »

Media reporting that a bloodbath is expected for international banks when the U.S. markets open.

I suspect the biggest impact felt locally will be in the sterling / Euro differential, which has dropped back from ~82/1 on the announcement to ~80/1 just now. Unfortunately, talk of recession discourages people to spend which in turn leads to recession. This really does appear to be a monumental cock up.

Drumpot

seamus wrote: »

Media reporting that a bloodbath is expected for international banks when the U.S. markets open.

It'll affect everyone, but City of London will be at the centre of it. Going to be an austere Christmas in the UK.

When I saw the result this morning I was instantly reminded of an older woman who the BBC interviewed outside a polling station who said she was voting leave, to "bring things back the way they were. So England can be...eh...England again".

Well, congratulation lady. The UK economy is returning to 1969! You did it!

I was sort of in between because I wanted to see a Brexit and another part of me wanted to see them stay in so things would remain in some way stable.

But I don't think, from a philosophical long term perspective , that a Brexit is a bad thing. I believe the elite (political and financial) need these shocks to be brought back down to reality once in awhile.

It's easy to get completely invested in the financial system and modern politics to the point of apathy that allows these mechanisms to become corrupted and too powerful.

I believe there was valid reasons on both sides but feel that while this is going to be painful (because of the broken system we all subscribe to and support), I think this can force a positive shift that would not have happened if it was a Brexin.

I work in investment and pension advice so this will impact all my clients. But I feel that people forget this is an unnatural human driven concept. It's not imperative to our survival, it's simply a flawed instrument we use in business.

Revolutions come about because people feel forgotten and persecuted in some form. The arrogant message from the financial institutions , who care only about their own gains, was that people should fear the ramifications of upsetting what is primarily their Applecart that we are Invessted in in some form. You can't keep ignoring the voice of millions and expect to always get things your own way.....

In short, I'm gearing up for some tough years, particularly in my business, but a part of me thinks this is a good thing even if it doesn't feel like it....

silverharp

seamus wrote: »

Media reporting that a bloodbath is expected for international banks when the U.S. markets open.

It'll affect everyone, but City of London will be at the centre of it. Going to be an austere Christmas in the UK.

When I saw the result this morning I was instantly reminded of an older woman who the BBC interviewed outside a polling station who said she was voting leave, to "bring things back the way they were. So England can be...eh...England again".

Well, congratulation lady. The UK economy is returning to 1969! You did it!

the analysis can get a bit hysterical , if the markets do crash from here , well they might have done it anyway, the problems from 08 were never really cleared. I don't see why its Britain going back to 1969. its just going back to erm Norway or Canada or Switzerland in 2016

seamus

^^
I actually agree, Drumpot. The very fact that the referendum happened at all was a catalyst for change in the EU. Now that the UK will leave, it forces the EU to deal with the actual rather than the theoretical.

And practical experience is worth a hundred times more than buk-lernin'. Someone was going to leave the EU at some point. Had it been a small country like us, the EU mightn't have been too worried. If it had been Germany or France (or another founding member), the EU may not have been recoverable.

The UK is just the right mix of big, but not that important that this experience will serve to improve the EU overall.

PopePalpatine

I was hoping the UK would vote to Remain, but now that it's happening I'm hoping that Brexit triggers the EU into reform, such as giving the European Parliament the power to write its own legislation.

The messed up thing about all of this is that the ones who were most in favour of Remain are the ones who'll live with Brexit's consequences the longest.

If this starts a popular movement across Europe for referenda then I may have to move to Canada.

smacl

PopePalpatine wrote: »

The messed up thing about all of this is that the ones who were most in favour of Remain are the ones who'll live with Brexit's consequences the longest.

Longest maybe, but those planning of availing of their pension fund in the near future could also be in for a shock given the state the markets are going.

MrPudding

smacl wrote: »

Longest maybe, but those planning of availing of their pension fund in the near future could also be in for a shock given the state the markets are going.

With the greatest of respect... fcuk em. They will reap what the sowed.

MrP

robdonn

Deleted User wrote: »

If this starts a popular movement across Europe for referenda then I may have to move to Canada.

I'm saying it here first - The United States of Ireland & Scotland.

MrPudding

robdonn wrote: »

I'm saying it here first - The United States of Ireland & Scotland.

Funny, I was just thinking about a merger between NI and Scotland the other day.

MrP

robdonn

MrPudding wrote: »

Funny, I was just thinking about a merger between NI and Scotland the other day.

MrP

There are already movements being made for another referendum in Scotland, and although Sinn Féin are calling for one on NI joining with Ireland, I think it's more likely that they'd call for a referendum to just be a separate nation.

If it were a choice between the 2, I'd have to support NI becoming part of Ireland. Not because of any outdated thoughts of a united Ireland, but simply because NI is too small to survive by itself. They rely too heavily on subsidies from the UK so they would need to unite with someone to keep their economy going. Maybe NI and Scotland?

robdonn

Google Trends - Massive spike in searches for Irish passports from Northern Ireland

Akrasia

silverharp wrote: »

the analysis can get a bit hysterical , if the markets do crash from here , well they might have done it anyway, the problems from 08 were never really cleared. I don't see why its Britain going back to 1969. its just going back to erm Norway or Canada or Switzerland in 2016

Both of those countries are in Schengen. I doubt the leave voters would be too impressed if they leave the E.U. but join Schengen
I'm not sure why you brought up Canada, they're in NAFTA

Kiwi in IE

Great, I'm now a non EU citizen!

Bristolscale7

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Great, I'm now a non EU citizen!

Get that Irish passport without delay!

Bristolscale7

Trump in Scotland spouting off on what a great day it is for the U.K. Important warning to Clinton and the democratic party to not **** up.

robdonn

robdonn wrote: »

Google Trends - Massive spike in searches for Irish passports from Northern Ireland

Sheer numbers aren't huge but still a good laugh. :pac:

Kiwi in IE

Tried to apply before marriage referendum but had to be either living here 5 years or married for 3. At the time I was living here for 4.5 and married for 1.5. Now I'm over the 5 years and our 3rd anniversary is in 4 days, so it was a well timed referendum for me!